Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Nie Li]

You're clearly misinformed.

Luffy takes damage from any attack as long as it's strong.

Luffy's making those expressions because he's not hurt? That's pretty absurd logic.

Don't think people flinch after being punched if it didn't have any sort of impact.

There is an impact. He was sent flying. Air left his lungs, he was pressed by the punch. In the case of Franky's punch it still doesn't translate to damage, though, because he's made of rubber.

However, a punch with the same strength carrying haki would have hurt him.

They're not making insights, they're translating, lol.

Then you shouldn't bring up their names, at all. They're non-important for this discussion.

They translated something, I understand perfectly well what they have translated. You (or they) have interpreted something from that translation, and I believe it's a very wrong interpretation. You must see the difference between the two things.

I already made the example that this discussion would still happen if the manga was originally in English. And, the thing is, it would still happen if you and I spoke perfect Japanese, because it's the interpretation of the dialogues that we're disagreeing with, not about the literal meaning of words and sentences.


The rest of your post is repeating everything you've already said over and over, with the same interpretations I don't agree with, so I'm not bothering to keep this up until the end of time. I have already answered to your theories more than once.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Also, I put too much effort into your theories when you didn't even bother to see what I had been telling you, which is outright disrespectful, almost as much as that "So you believe everything that's on the same page must be the same concept. I understand now. lol".

GOKEN is a term that's been used.

How is Zoro a Haki user when Brook called Zoro and Ryuma GOKEN/MIGHT BLADES when Brook himself didn't know what Haki was until the time-skip? lol?

What I told you, and so have others that have posted during this discussion, is that Gouken is a term that has nothing to do with haki nor BOAT. I have already explained you what it most likely means, and it is unrelated, so that question you're asking there as a way to counter my points doesn't make sense and is just proof of how little you care about anything that is not your theory, making any debate about it pointless.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

How is it complex that Wano samurai, as a closed country with no contact with the outer world, developed a different understanding to haki? Not just the name, but both how they explain it and what they consider the norm for their samurais (normal as "incomplete" and advanced as "normal"), And of course, since their warriors are all samurai, they directly relate haki to swordsmanship.

Lol.

Being from a closed border doesn't mean Haki works different, lol.

That's like saying Devil fruits work different in Wano because they're from a closed border.. Haki isn't racial mate, lol.

Haki works the same inside and outside of Wano. Being a closed border doesn't change how things work, lol.

Only difference between Wano and the outside work is they call Haki... Ryou. No different to how Skypiea call Observation Haki.... Mantra.

All you have to do is read the Manga.

Zoro literally said he's had this feeling before where everything around him was silent, and when in this state of mind he can hear the breathing of rocks, trees, the earth and everything. He said this hearing of the breathing? Is this the power to cut and not cut? and then he decides to cut a rock... slices it like a hot knife butter and the same sword couldn't even cut a bunch of leaves that would easily have been cut... because he willed his blade not to cut the leaves and willed his blade to cut the rock.

The term MIGHTYBLADE was developed in this scene because of this technique... lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

There is an impact. He was sent flying. Air left his lungs, he was pressed by the punch.

LMFAO.

Air left his lungs? First time I've ever heard that .

Air left his lungs in both these scenes too?

The punch didn't hurt him, air just left his lungs, okay bud.

I think this is where we can conclude your mindset in all this, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

is that Gouken is a term that has nothing to do with haki nor BOAT.

Has nothing to do with BOAT, but was first mentioned when the Breath of ALL THINGS was first introduced in the series in Chapter 195 when Zoro first learnt to use BOAT, but you claim unrelated?

lol. Logic at its finest, sir.

 

[Fox666]

Was it really necessary to pollute the thread with an unhealthy discussion about an obscure term?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You (or they) have interpreted something from that translation, and I believe it's a very wrong interpretation.

Just out of curiosity.

How exactly do you know they translated it incorrectly when:

1. SANDMAN_AP is a native Japanese speaker.
2. Ohara's Library has been educated in Japanese too.

Are you able to read Japanese to actually deem them wrong?

You supposedly speak Spanish, I do not.

It would be like you translate a Spanish text... and I said "I think your interpretation of the Spanish is wrong" even though I do not speak Spanish. If I did... I'd at least have to show evidence that your translation is wrong, and then show why it's wrong. If I did that, fair play to me, I'd have grounds to actually critique.

How do you factually determine that a Japanese native and a Japanese educated person saying the same thing... are wrong... when they're translating a RAW JAPANESE translated text?

Are you educated in Japanese enough to read it and claim what's inaccurately translated and what is? What are you basing your belief off off? Just whims?

 

[King Moe]

Was it really necessary to pollute the thread with a unhealthy discussion about an obscure term?

On the next Mangehelpers Awards, I think going to insert Moegara vs Hannibal Psyche as Rivarly Debate Of The Year as never thought these two would go at it like this.

 

[Nie Li]

Just out of curiosity.

How exactly do you know they translated it incorrectly when:

1. SANDMAN_AP is a native Japanese speaker.
2. Ohara's Library has been educated in Japanese too.

Are you able to read Japanese to actually deem them wrong?

You supposedly speak Spanish, I do not.

It would be like you translate a Spanish text... and I said "I think your interpretation of the Spanish is wrong" even though I do not speak Spanish.

How do you factually determine that a Japanese native and a Japanese educated person saying the same thing... are wrong... when they're translating a RAW JAPANESE translated text?

Huh? I never did that.

I never questioned any of their translations. In fact, I'm saying that I don't question their translations in the very paragraph you're quoting. I made a point about that twice and even tried to make two examples of why the translation is not the issue. None of my arguments implied there was a translation mistake anywhere, either.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I never questioned any of their translations

What?

They translated something, I understand perfectly well what they have translated. You (or they) have interpreted something from that translation, and I believe it's a very wrong interpretation. You must see the difference between the two things.

You just said their translation is wrong, lol.

 

[Nie Li]

What?



You just said their translation is wrong, lol.

Not at all. I said the interpretation is wrong. Not theirs, yours (unless your points and theories are actually theirs, in which case, yeah, theirs).

I'll try to put it another way.

We both speak English, correct? It is indeed not my mother tongue but we can both read an english text.

If we read the same english text, both of us will understand the words that are written, and the sentences, and what they mean put together. However, if the text has any complexity to it, we may interpret the meaning differently, despite both knowning exactly what the sentences mean. We may see different nuances or simply arrive to different conclusions. This is even more true in a case such as this, in which we have a long story with now 1000 chapters and we're discussing a very obscure concept that's barely been directly addressed in the story at all.

That's why I said the issue is not the translation. This would happen to us even if we were both native japanese speakers. Or even if One Piece was an american comicbook published in English.


I don't question the translations, I simply don't arrive at the same conclusions as you when puzzling them together. That's what I mean by the interpretation.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Not at all. I said the interpretation is wrong.

is that Gouken is a term that has nothing to do with haki nor BOAT.

So, you're not in denial... that GOKEN is a term used in chapter 195? where BOAT was also referenced?

 

[Nie Li]

So, you're not in denial... that GOKEN is a term used in chapter 195? where BOAT was also referenced?

I have given you multiple reasons why I don't buy your theory, but what you're asking me now is something I have never denied, so I really don't see what you want to argue now with that.

Them being mentioned in the same chapter proves nothing of your theories.

In fact, you were mocking me earlier for believing (and I still do) that "BOAT" is a haki thing "just because it was mentioned in the same page" (which isn't even the reason why I interpret it that way), so you shouldn't now make a point of two things being closely related "just because they're mentioned in the same chapter".

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Can we drop the topic, though? I solved your doubt.

I never said any of their translations being accurate. The way I interpret things, too, works perfectly fine with their translations.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Them being mentioned in the same chapter proves nothing of your theories.

Lol, I'm not asking you to believe my theory.

My point is are you in denial that the term GOKEN/MIGHTYBLADE was mentioned in chapter 195 as Ohara's Library and SANDMAN stated?

GOKEN is not an interpretation, it's a Translation.

Are you still in denial that GOKEN was mentioned in chapter 195?

You seem to be unable to simply say yes or no, lol.

 

[Nie Li]

Lol, I'm not asking you to believe my theory.

My point is are you in denial that the term GOKEN/MIGHTYBLADE was mentioned in chapter 195 as Ohara's Library and SANDMAN stated?

GOKEN is not an interpretation, it's a Translation.

Are you still in denial that GOKEN was mentioned in chapter 195?

You seem to be unable to simply say yes or no, lol.

Huh? I gave you a proper answer, don't be a harasser.

what you're asking me now is something I have never denied

Am I "still in denial" about something I never denied? Why would I be in denial about that if I never questioned it?

As I said previously, every post you make proves how you didn't even bother looking at any point I made, or you wouldn't be making these questions now.

Also, Gouken is a translation, but you interpret Gouken to be something different from what I interpret them to be. Stop mixing up translation and interpretation.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Also, Gouken is a translation, but you interpret Gouken to be something different from what I interpret them to be. Stop mixing up translation and interpretation.

I'm not asking about interpretation.

Simply asking if you're still in denial GOKEN was a term used in chapter 195 and you can't even admit it.

 

[Nie Li]

I'm not asking about interpretation.

Simply asking if you're still in denial GOKEN was a term used in chapter 195 and you can't even admit it.

"Admit" what?

I have answered you twice already.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

"Admit" what?

I have answered you twice already.

is that Gouken is a term that has nothing to do with haki nor BOAT.

My point is you've deluded yourself that GOKEN wasn't said in chapter 195.

You can't even admit it was mentioned when I'm not even interpreting anything even if I'm just pointing out the translation, lol.

 

[Nie Li]

My point is you've deluded yourself that GOKEN was said in chapter 195.

You can't even admit it was mentioned when I'm not even interpreting anything even if I'm just pointing out the translation, lol.

???

At this point, I'll just avoid making any comments about your reading comprehension and tell you again:

In this whole conversation, I have never said or implied Gouken was not used in that chapter, or in any other. I have even told you what I think of it appearing in the chapter.

So, I'll tell you again. How can I "still be in denial" if I have never been in denial about it?

You're arguing things I have never said, and it's very annoying.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

In this whole conversation, I have never said or implied Gouken was not used in that chapter, or in any other one. I have even told you what I think of it appearing in the chapter.

Okay, so you've made some progress.

GOKEN was mentioned in chapter 195.

In Chapter 194, Koshiro said the ability to cut and not cut is the pinnacle of Swordsmanship.

How then can you say....

is that Gouken is a term that has nothing to do with haki nor BOAT.

Zoro says the ability to cut and not cut... is the objective of a GOKEN.

Zoro then asks if "to not cut anything" is the same thing as hearing the Breath of all things (BOAT) and is the power to "cut steel".

Given that to cut and not cut is the objective of "GOKEN" essentially meaning ability to not cut and not cut is "GOKEN".

How then can you say cutting steel and not cutting (The goal of GOKEN) is unrelated to BOAT?

 

[Nie Li]

Okay, so you've made some progress.

GOKEN was mentioned in chapter 195.

In Chapter 194, Koshiro said the ability to cut and not cut is the pinnacle of Swordsmanship.

How then can you say....

Zoro says the ability to cut and not cut... is the objective of a GOKEN.

Zoro then asks if "to not cut anything" is the same thing as hearing the Breath of all things and is the power to "cut steel".

Given that to cut and not cut is the objective of "GOKEN".

How then can you say cutting steel and not cutting (The goal of GOKEN) is unrelated to BOAT?

Woooow, stop.

"Okay, so you've made some progress"? Shame that you did not.

You made your theories very clear many posts ago. I also made very clear why I don't agree with your theories and why I believe something different. Now you've tried to repeat, for the eleventh time, everything you have already said, and you started your argument by making me "admit" something I had never denied, and then saying "I have made progress"? How grossly condescending can you get?

If you want to debate with someone, you should at least try to counter their actual points. You made me "admit" something that I had never denied for any of my points, and that I had already commented on. It's annoying, unproductive and not a healthy way to discuss things either way.

This conversation is over on my part, as it should have been over a long while ago.

As I said initially, even if I do believe those theories are entirely wrong, they still made for an interesting read.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Woooow, stop.

"Okay, so you've made some progress"? Shame that you did not.

You made your theories very clear many posts ago. I also made very clear why I don't agree with your theories and why I believe something different. Now you've tried to repeat, for the eleventh time, everything you have already said, and you started your argument by making me "admit" something I had never denied, and then saying "I have made progress"? How grossly condescending can you get?

If you want to debate with someone, you should at least try to counter their actual points. You made me "admit" something that I had never denied for any of my points, and that I had already commented on. It's annoying, unproductive and not a healthy way to discuss things either way.

This conversation is over on my part, as it should have been over a long while ago.

As I said initially, even if I do believe those theories are entirely wrong, they still made for an interesting read.

Lol, I think my point has been made.

You have to be in denial to claim that GOKEN (a translation) has nothing to do with BOAT when it was mentioned in Chapter 195.

Apparently, stating facts is a theory, lol.

What exactly did I theorise in those panels (based on the translation of Ohara and SANDMAN)... Zoro said... the ability to cut and not cut (BOAT) is the goal of GOKEN.

You're allowed to be in denial, I've just proven my point, and that's all that was necessary.

 

[M3J]

At the time? Nowhere.

I believe it wasn't mentioned either when Garp punched Luffy and he felt it despite being rubber in Water 7.

What Zoro did there was a mystery, which is why theories on BOAT like yours started growing, but now that we know about how they understand haki in Wano and about where Zoro learnt all of this, it's now made very obvious by Hyogoro's explanation that what Zoro used was Haki.

Oda isn't being obscure about these powers, he's being very clear about them, you're just refusing to believe this is even a posibility (despite it being the common sense explanation) because you're somehow fixated on your theory.

There's no evidence that Garp's punch was haki related. Literally, Luffy never thought of Garp when Rayleigh told him about Color of Armament, despite the fact that Garp was able to hurt him over and over.