Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[M3J]

LOL. If an attack can't hit you, you can't be defeated. It's the very reason Oda had Luffy learned future sight when fighting Katakuri. It's the major reason Katakuri had an undefeated record against anyone pre Luffy even though he'd clashed with other Yonko crews.

But if you can't deal out damage, then you can't beat the person either, and all that dodging won't help against opponents who could fight for days.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

But if you can't deal out damage, then you can't beat the person either, and all that dodging won't help against opponents who could fight for days.

That's y the focus of this arc is Advanced CoA. Luffy has the ability to not get hit (unless when nerfed or affected by plot like the first encounter with Kaido), what's left is the ability to deal maximum damage regardless of the opponents durability and endurance. Which he has learnt and still improving on.

 

[SnailBeast]

But if you can't deal out damage, then you can't beat the person either, and all that dodging won't help against opponents who could fight for days.

You can lead them to make them hurt theirself

 

[kkck]

Luffy's Rubber.

If he hits something hard, his punch gets deflected.

Shows he hit her hand. We see his foot on her hand.

@kkck Here's another WHAM. Impact.

Huge difference between that and what Rayleigh did.



Actually, he did get stronger.

He learnt a new technique which makes the Sword take on the will of the user.

If you know how BOAT works, you'd know Asura is just conveying your will into a Sword.

• Zoro uses BOAT to be a demon - His Sword becomes demonic and gives off the aura.
• Zoro uses BOAT to will himself into becoming a Gorilla - he essentially becomes a Gorilla.

If you understand how BOAT works, it's simply conveying the will into a weapon. It's literal. Swords become more powerful or have their true capabilities unleashed when people learn this ability.

It's like you're forgetting it's a Manga. Protagonists can just get stronger on the drop of a dime.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2021 ---

@fallou

Regular Haki is hard.

Hardened is Harder.

Advanced is Harder by concentrating it all to form a thick later = making it look like projection. It's not really projected, it's just a thicker layer.

The fact they have to move their limbs when they attack shows it's not projected, otherwise, we'd see people just stick their palms out and shoot out "haki projections" without motion, and we don't see that.

The strongest form of Advanced supposedly is a thick layer that also penetrates the inside of the object or person it hits.

We can't say for sure if they're using regular Haki or Hardened because Haki's not shaded until the time-skip.

Even if you frame that as him conveying his will to his weapon, the situation is still not that he simply hacked harder at mr 1. After that point zoro can either easily cut through steel or use the full magnitude of his physical strength against a piece of paper and not cut it (because this is a manga).

The advanced haki luffy learned is simply projection. It's literally what rayleigh and sentoumaru displayed and what swordsmen use to coat their weapons with haki. It's not just a thicker layer.. A thicker layer is just more haki...

And yeah, we can. because haki projection has been displayed plenty of times since the timeskip without us seeing the black color. Hardening and projection are distinct abilities which can be used separately or together.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Even if you frame that as him conveying his will to his weapon, the situation is still not that he simply hacked harder at mr 1. After that point zoro can either easily cut through steel or use the full magnitude of his physical strength against a piece of paper and not cut it (because this is a manga).

The advanced haki luffy learned is simply projection. It's literally what rayleigh and sentoumaru displayed and what swordsmen use to coat their weapons with haki. It's not just a thicker layer.. A thicker layer is just more haki...

And yeah, we can. because haki projection has been displayed plenty of times since the timeskip without us seeing the black color. Hardening and projection are distinct abilities which can be used separately or together.

Bud, in the end, it's all power. BOAT is just Sword Magic that makes the Sword magically more powerful. The Sword gets stronger, it allows him to produce more power when cutting. It's simply an increase in produced Power.

Not sure what your reasoning is to not understand... that harder and more powerful attacks essentially make things easier to cut.

Advanced Haki is not projection, it's still an increase in power. It's not even projection, it's just the thickening of a Haki layer. The character still has to move their arm in order for the Haki to have any effect because you know... Haki is not in motion, it's just thick like a boxing glove that needs to be moved towards a target to attack or defend.

The thick layer of Haki is literally stronger harder Haki, not just "more" Haki... thus why it requires very little impact to produce a lot of damage. Not sure how this isn't understood when it's showcased.

Haven't you read that all Advanced Haki is... is concentrating Haki from other parts of the body to 1 part??

No one has ever shot Haki, lol. You're making claims and saying things that have never happened.

And you're wrong, Advanced Haki hasn't been shown many times, you're deluding yourself if you think so.

We've only ever seen it from:

1. Rayleigh
2. Admirals
3. Sentomaru

Big Mom probably used it against Luffy in WCI, but that's literally about it. Katakuri's Haki was harder than Luffy's.. he was probably developing it, but never quite achieved it.

We actually haven't seen it anytime since the time-skip which is why Luffy's only recollection of it is.... Pre- time skip....

You know nothing of Haki if you can't understand the only thing Haki does as it gets stronger is get harder.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2021 ---

The chapter is not as bad as summarised. Seems Sanji's not choosing to not kick, he literally can't to the point he can't even activate Haki even if he wanted.

Funny chapter, and god knows... what the hell did Zeff do to make Sanji traumatically unable to land a hit against a woman even if he tried to do so?

Everyone in the chapter actually acknowledges how pathetic Sanji was for calling Robin, and I guess that's Oda's way of breaking the 4th wall because realistically, it's pathetic what Sanji did. However, it seems Sanji's got some innate mental trauma from Zeff that physically makes the act impossible.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2021 ---

advanced haki luffy learned is simply projection. It's literally what rayleigh and sentoumaru displayed and what swordsmen use to coat their weapons with haki.

Sorry, but this is Utterly false.

Even Zoro cannot use Advanced Haki, he only uses normal Haki that is restricted to Hardening atm.

Even Killer who coats his Sword with Haki can't hurt Kaido.

If simply being able to coat a Sword in Haki required Advanced Haki, Kaido wouldn't be surprised the Scabbards could cut him to begin with.

You're literally making false things up. Making a Sword imbued with Haki has nothing to do with Advanced Haki.

Even Tashigi can imbue her Sword with Haki...

 

[Nie Li]

No one has ever shot Haki, lol. You're making claims and saying things that have never happened.

Zoro cutting Monet's cheek, a logia, with a flying slash? Flying slashes with haki are pretty much shooting haki, though the explanation would be more "coating the pressurized air with haki".

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Zoro cutting Monet's cheek, a logia, with a flying slash? Flying slashes with haki are pretty much shooting haki, though the explanation would be more "coating the pressurized air with haki".

It's not Advanced Haki though.

Even Advanced Haki is not projection. It's simply a thick layer as this panel shows.

It's not the Haki flying, it's the attack flying.

We've had flying attacks for a long time without Haki meaning flying attacks have nothing to do with Haki.

 

[kkck]

The point is not that all flying attacks are coated in armor haki, rather that flying attacks (or weapons) can or not be coated in armor haki. Hence the many instances where we have seen long range attacks of many types affecting logia users way beyond user's normal haki armor coating. And.. your framing of the armor haki being thick is not exactly wrong for people who simply punch. But it's insufficient to explain instances of haki at longer ranges. It's an issue of how far you extent the coating. Brawlers just need to extend it a short distance beyond their fists. Swordsmen need to project it all over their swords and however far their slashes travel. Archers or snipers need their projectiles fully coated for however many dozens or thousands of meters. With roger and WB we see they coat their weapons with haki and then apparently projected their haki over their weapons and then a further than that, hence why they weapons didn't come in contact.

 

[Fox666]

As far we know, an arrow coated in Haki is not advanced Haki. Presumably flying slashes aren't either...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But it's insufficient to explain instances of haki at longer ranges.

The rule's probably as simple as if a weapon is coated in Haki, any attack following it would be Haki based whether it's closed distanced or not.

Even Zoro who cannot use Advanced Haki and has been performing flying attacks and was surprised at Luffy's Haki when he initially used it.

The idea that Tashigi who can't even use Hardening was utilising Advanced Haki before Luffy just seems a tad absurd. If Tashigi's capable of attacking from distance with Haki, we can eliminate the idea it's Advanced Haki and it's simply regular.

Has nothing to do with Advanced Haki. It's just Thick. Something being thick is not the same as being thrown or flying. Only thing thickness means is one doesn't have to move closer to the target... (if an attack has to travel 20 meters to land, it might require 18 meters with Advanced) one still has to move towards the target. It's not projecting itself... it's not exactly a bullet, it's not just moving...

Only thing moving is the attack and the Haki just accompanies it.

With roger and WB we see they coat their weapons with haki and then apparently projected their haki over their weapons and then a further than that, hence why they weapons didn't come in contact.

More like their Advanced Haki was that thick. They're literally in proximity of each other and swinging their blades towards each other.

If you have to move towards something, it's not projecting.

I don't have to get a gun up to someone's face... I just have to aim and the bullet moves. No instance where Haki was aimed and then shot (projected in other words). The attack moves, the Haki accompanies it... just the way a bullet or arrow is shot, and the Haki just accompanies it.

Hence the many instances where we have seen long range attacks of many types affecting logia users way beyond user's normal haki armor coating.

Haki's never had any reaction other than:

1. Being Hard.
2. Affecting Logia like they were tangible to begin with.

It's never had anything beyond , so there's really nothing beyond user's normal Haki.

Haki has functioned the same way from start till now.

And.. your framing of the armor haki being thick is not exactly wrong for people who simply punch.

It works the same for everyone no matter the attack.

The rule being if an attack starts of being Haki based, it's Haki based whether it's a slash, punch, etc.

All Advanced Haki would mean it's stronger, that's really it.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

to be honest as he doesn't have traits to show he can unlock it, but I think Sanji will be one of those to do it given I seen recent discussions on those stating similarities with him and Rayleigh in design and attitude at times.

Spoiler: ch1010

well, turned out zoro had CoC.

 

[King Moe]

Spoiler: ch1010

well, turned out zoro had CoC.

Spoiler

Never said he won't unlock it, just Zoro lack traits compare to Sanji. Obviously Luffy's crew will have many COC users in them.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Spoiler

Never said he won't unlock it, just Zoro lack traits compare to Sanji. Obviously Luffy's crew will have many COC users in them.

Spoiler

and yet zoro is the one who gets the CoC, not sanji. Just telling you manga facts

 

[King Moe]

Spoiler

and yet zoro is the one who gets the CoC, not sanji. Just telling you manga facts

Spoiler

And you don't think Sanji won't have it himself? They can have it in them already without knowing for all we know .

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Spoiler

And you don't think Sanji won't have it himself? They can have it in them already without knowing for all we know .

nope, sanji doesn't have it. You need to bring proof for sanji's CoC if you want to claim that. For now, sanji isn't worthy to have CoC

 

[Fox666]

So if I understand it, Kaido knocked out Luffy the first time because his attack was imbued with Conqueror's Haki.

That's not how I expected Conqueror's Haki to be used. A bit repetitive IMHO.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

So if I understand it, Kaido knocked out Luffy the first time because his attack was imbued with Conqueror's Haki.

That's not how I expected Conqueror's Haki to be used. A bit repetitive IMHO.

Agreed.

It seems King's Haki is Armament Haki for Armament Haki at this point, lol.

The explanation we were given of King's Haki never hinted at this at all iirc.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2021 ---

In essence, based on what we've seen, King's Haki is just the strongest form of Armament with the ability to intimidate the weak.

 

[goldb]

Agreed.

It seems King's Haki is Armament Haki for Armament Haki at this point, lol.

The explanation we were given of King's Haki never hinted at this at all iirc.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2021 ---

In essence, based on what we've seen, King's Haki is just the strongest form of Armament with the ability to intimidate the weak.

That makes me then think about how CoC is applied in battle...with Luffy being able to apply CoC to his base form and cause damage, does that mean he can now fight without needing to rest? We know that armement can be exhausted and one needs to rest for a certain amount of time in order to recoup. I can see Oda wanting to find a solution to that, giving room for extensive fights for Luffy but I'm not sold currently on the execution of this advanced CoC, especially as it just seems to be what you described in your post.

 

[HereNThere]

Spitballing...

CoC's full capabilities may just allow individuals to exert their will over the outside environment. Which means that this new application could be seen as CoC users exerting their will over their opponents body by screwing them up internally.

Or, potentially, CoC allows them to directly attack one's will. This seems like the next step after knocking those with weaker willpower out.

Or maybe a mix of both.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That makes me then think about how CoC is applied in battle...with Luffy being able to apply CoC to his base form and cause damage, does that mean he can now fight without needing to rest? We know that armement can be exhausted and one needs to rest for a certain amount of time in order to recoup. I can see Oda wanting to find a solution to that, giving room for extensive fights for Luffy but I'm not sold currently on the execution of this advanced CoC, especially as it just seems to be what you described in your post.

It's such a weird ability. It doesn't look like Rayleigh told him about it because Luffy said he figured it out when he got hit by Kaido's kanobo. If Rayleigh won't elaborate on it, and Hyogoro may not be able to, will Kaido elaborate? Maybe Luffy's just scratching the surface of King's Haki's advanced usage.

On another note, I'd be so ambivalent about Big Mom being the one to explain it since she comes across as a dope. She's definitely knowledgeable, but she's always been portrayed as this ball of air that just wants cake and punches things when things don't go her way. I'm guessing it's one of the Emperors that will elaborate on the full potential of King's Haki.