Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Ellenate]

It seems King's Haki is Armament Haki for Armament Haki at this point, lol.

Redundancy, the overarching theme for conqueror's haki...

"Haki, it just works" - Oda *walks away*

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Haki, it just works" - Oda *walks away*

Lol, got to add the sip of water before walking away.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Oda's editors: "So CoA creates a barrier? But then Advanced CoA creates a bigger barrier? And then CoC also makes a barrier? But CoC and CoA are different haki right? Is it a layer thing? Do these barriers stack? Is that how Luffy's gunna-"

Oda: "Let's revive Orochi again."

 

[goldb]

It's such a weird ability. It doesn't look like Rayleigh told him about it because Luffy said he figured it out when he got hit by Kaido's kanobo. If Rayleigh won't elaborate on it, and Hyogoro may not be able to, will Kaido elaborate? Maybe Luffy's just scratching the surface of King's Haki's advanced usage.

On another note, I'd be so ambivalent about Big Mom being the one to explain it since she comes across as a dope. She's definitely knowledgeable, but she's always been portrayed as this ball of air that just wants cake and punches things when things don't go her way. I'm guessing it's one of the Emperors that will elaborate on the full potential of King's Haki.

I presumed Rayleigh never taught him this because he himself hadn't learn the advanced form but even then, he would've been aware of Roger being able to use it... .

We'll learn more from it during this fight, I'm sure. Likely a mention of who else Kaido has faced that can also use this, or any drawbacks of using this ability for prolonged time, if any. I won't expect anything insights from Big Mom besides a surprise at Luffy being able to use this form.

I'd expect 3 of the OG emperors (Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom) to be able to use this. Outside of that, I'm not really sure.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Since the introduction of Shanks as a Yonko, and seeing him use CoC Haki although not intending to knock people out or damage anything. At that point, seeing Whitebeard's subordinates get knocked out even when Shanks hasn't purposely done anything made it seem there's more to the mystery of it than Oda wanted us to know. Also given Whitebeard's statement that Shanks was overflowing with Haki. It was obvious CoC had some physical application. I'm surprised @Hannibal Psyche wasn't able to "read between the lines" in this instance.

Now seeing this new application Luffy observed and Kaido reluctantly acknowledged with a laugh. It's obvious Rayleigh most likely couldn't utilise it. CoC is rare enough already. Then Kaido saying there are only a selected few amongst the most powerful CoC wielders able to apply it this way.
Sounds familiar? Future sight (aka advanced CoO) had the same lines said about it and so far we only have 2 people who are confirmed users. Luffy and Dogtooth.

We've seen Roger and Whitebeard use it, Kaido too and now Luffy is joining that list... Again...

Guys it seems this is the rarest of all Haki abilities. Since CoC users are considered few already. It takes a very powerful CoC user among the already few numbers to be aware and learn this cheat of a trick. Which is even super rare!

It's little wonder Oden and now Law are both shocked at this lol.

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--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2021 ---

I always knew Kaido did something abnormal/cheated to be able to knock out Luffy in their first encounter. Though I was wrong, initially assuming Kaido's club had seastone in them. It was only later on I realised that his attack had those lightning associated with a CoC clash accompanying it.
Prior to that point we only see that lightning effect when 2 CoC users clash when using CoA. A clear indicator that both opponents are welders of King's Haki. But to see Kaido emitting same lightning just as he hits Luffy had me scratching my head for answers. So glad we now have it. It's an unfair cheat the most powerful CoC welders use to make their attacks extraordinarily effective.
Luffy has always been a genius in combat and it's been established he doesn't lose a fight without learning something new. This is it guys, this is how Luffy matches these OP Yonkos.

 

[King Moe]

I wonder what you get with COC and COO Combine together?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I presumed Rayleigh never taught him this because he himself hadn't learn the advanced form but even then, he would've been aware of Roger being able to use it... .

We'll learn more from it during this fight, I'm sure. Likely a mention of who else Kaido has faced that can also use this, or any drawbacks of using this ability for prolonged time, if any. I won't expect anything insights from Big Mom besides a surprise at Luffy being able to use this form.

I'd expect 3 of the OG emperors (Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom) to be able to use this. Outside of that, I'm not really sure.

The much further in the story, I think the chances of characters we've not been well acquainted with would be very strong.

I'd definitely put:

1. Shanks
2. Mihawk for being rivals with Shanks and with Zoro definitely going to showcase it in future, I think Mihawk uses it already.
3. Kaido as he's shown
4. Big Mom
5. Sengoku since he's a King's Haki user.
6. Garp (I'd imagine he has it, but it's not confirmed but Garp implied it's something common in their family)
7. Dragon
8. Maybe all Admirals have it... maybe that's one of the prerequisites.
9. Also, Boa Hancock possibly... she might be more powerful than we know, but also not sure, but she's definitely powerful.
10. I'd have thought Rayleigh too, but it could be that he wanted Luffy to discover this on his own? That's the only supporting speculation I could make to give him the benefit of the doubt.

All in bold, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to a high degree outside of the confirmed like Shanks.

 

[XXGenesis]

Just watched a random YouTube video by VinlanD, who made an interesting observation and analysis. That supports my theory of exactly how CoC is used.

CoC is using one’s Will to dominate another. As we’ve seen Shanks,Luffy,Katakuri, Rayleigh do to fodder or those weak willed.

The step above that were are introduced to. Is using it in combat along with Ryu to deliver a CoC Haki attack; Via Roger vs WB; Kaidou vs Luffy(1st,2nd) I believe these attacks can almost guarantee a K.O for those without or weak CoC.

The foreshadow to this was Everyone other time when we saw Black lighting. Was 2 CoC users in a Haki clash or Finishing Attack. A clash of Will’s or an attack carrying the will of it’s user.

Elephant gun vs Bald head Chinjajo
Luffy stopping Doflamingo foot’s
Buzz Cut Mochi


When Kaido says it’s rare I agree. Only the strongest of the CoC users can use it to their advantage offensively other than knocking out those of weaker spirits.

 

[Rmstorm]

Kaido is just coating his attacks with Conquerors Haki. Which is why he makes contact when he hits luffy.

What Luffy is doing is a step above Kaido, combining his Advanced Armament Haki both levels( barrier and internal destruction haki with Conquerors Haki coating to attack kaido inside without touching him from a distance.

Kaido is coming in contact with Luffy's barrier. Kaido is not using barrier like Whitebeard, Luffy and Roger have been doing.

This is the difference between Yonko and PK level characters is what Luffy does and what Kaido is doing.

 

[Fox666]

So Oden cut Kaido using Conqueror's Haki

Why did Luffy went through the training to learn emission and internal damage, if he would just learn this now?

This still doesn't explain how the Scabbards damaged Kaido

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

So Oden cut Kaido using Conqueror's Haki

Why did Luffy went through the training to learn emission and internal damage, if he would just learn this now?

This still doesn't explain how the Scabbards damaged Kaido

Scabbards can use Advanced Armament.

Advanced Armament is the only way to hurt Kaido, but it will not be deep enough, and he'll recover.

Luffy and the scabbards were all using advanced Armament. So, even though they hurt Kaido, the damage was not deep enough.

Oden on the other hand used not just Advanced, but King's Haki too which is why the damage was permanent.

Hyogoro taught Luffy to use Advanced, but he was banking on Luffy awakening the rest of the Haki powers because he'd seen Luffy learn to use a high form of Advanced Haki against Big Mom, so he felt Luffy would be pushed to a higher level of fighting against Kaido. In essence, this was a time-skip 2.0 - taught him the basics of Advanced Haki and expected him to unlock the rest in battle like Future Sight against Katakuri.

 

[Fox666]

Scabbards can use Advanced Armament.

Advanced Armament is the only way to hurt Kaido, but it will not be deep enough, and he'll recover.

Luffy and the scabbards were all using advanced Armament. So, even though they hurt Kaido, the damage was not deep enough.

Oden on the other hand used not just Advanced, but King's Haki too which is why the damage was permanent.

Hyogoro taught Luffy to use Advanced, but he was banking on Luffy awakening the rest of the Haki powers because he'd seen Luffy learn to use a high form of Advanced Haki against Big Mom, so he felt Luffy would be pushed to a higher level of fighting against Kaido. In essence, this was a time-skip 2.0 - taught him the basics of Advanced Haki and expected him to unlock the rest in battle like Future Sight against Katakuri.

That would make sense.

But I'm not sure if the author really has an idea on his mind that makes sense anymore.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That would make sense.

But I'm not sure if the author really has an idea on his mind that makes sense anymore.

The problem with Haki is you can't tell the difference between Hardening and Advanced Armament.

I think he's done a bad job of making it easily distinguishable.

The only thing that seems really distinct is maybe King's Haki being used with attacks, but the other forms of Hardening are nigh impossible to tell apart.

I think what Oda should have done was simply make it that only King's Haki was capable of hitting without contact, but even Armament Haki can do that too it seems, lol.

Wano has been an exciting arc, but it's also terrible in the sense that we're all left confused by things we thought we already had established.

 

[Brandish μ]

Hyogoro taught Luffy to use Advanced, but he was banking on Luffy awakening the rest of the Haki powers because he'd seen Luffy learn to use a high form of Advanced Haki against Big Mom, so he felt Luffy would be pushed to a higher level of fighting against Kaido. In essence, this was a time-skip 2.0 - taught him the basics of Advanced Haki and expected him to unlock the rest in battle like Future Sight against Katakuri.

This is where I'm lost.

Is the power that Rayleigh/Luffy used to take the explosive device off the same thing Luffy has begun to master in chapter 1010? IIRC the neck device feat was something beyond Hyogoro's ryou level.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

This is where I'm lost.

Is the power that Rayleigh/Luffy used to take the explosive device off the same thing Luffy has begun to master in chapter 1010? IIRC the neck device feat was something beyond Hyogoro's ryou level.

That's what I think too.

The way it's been broken down is:

Advanced Haki Basic/Exterior Haki Concentration: Hyogoro used the most basic form of Advanced Haki which is move excess Haki from other parts of the body to a body part and it becomes a thick layer of Haki which gives the impression of no contact.

Advanced Haki Mastered/Interior Haki Concentration: A step above that, not only are you moving the excess Haki to a part of your body, you move it into objects or opponents. This is what Rayleigh and Luffy did with the cuff and I guess Luffy's been using.

• Issue is it's almost impossible to tell when Interior/Exterior is used as they all look the same, maybe we just got to look at the details closer. Even basic Hardening doesn't look any different, lol.

If I had to guess, Luffy's been using Interior since he can use it. We saw Kaido dodge Luffy's attacks even in base implying interior was enough to have him somewhat worried. Since he never dodged their (scabbards) attacks, I'm guessing like Hyogoro, they may only be able to use Exterior.

I guess with King's Haki, Advanced Haki gets so powerful that the damage is just exponentially greater and it can do permanent damage. I guess the reason why Kaido told the scabbards that they'll never have a beast like Oden again is because none of them use King's Haki at the very most meaning the damage they can do will never be fatal. Not sure how much of a threat Internal haki poses to his life, but it's the only one we've seen him try to avoid outside of King's Haki.

I just hope we get some more elaboration. A lot of this is so unclear.

 

[kkck]

So Oden cut Kaido using Conqueror's Haki

Why did Luffy went through the training to learn emission and internal damage, if he would just learn this now?

This still doesn't explain how the Scabbards damaged Kaido

My take on this is:

1.- Conqueror haki is not a prerequisite to actually hurt or injure kaido. Plenty of people without it have done it. Luffy, zoro, the scabbards.... But you do need advanced armor haki skills to pull it off at least. The scabbards were taught by oden how to use haki in such a way as to allow them to cut kaido. Not that oden specifically taught them how to cut kaido, rather simply how haki works.

2.- Oden probably could not clad himself in conqueror haki.

3.- Emission and internal damage are almost certainly still at play. What luffy got out of this is an extra layer of armor and perhaps finally leveled the field with kaido.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

2.- Oden probably could not clad himself in conqueror haki.

The panels of him say otherwise.

He was able to produce the exact same lightening effects which are indicative of King's Haki. He was also a King's Haki user.

 

[kkck]

The panels of him say otherwise.

He was able to produce the exact same lightening effects which are indicative of King's Haki. He was also a King's Haki user.

Oden was definitely a conqueror haki user, that's not in question. But we never saw him engaged in a clash similar to how roger and wb clashed. And the lightning effect is ultimately there regardless of whether the people in question have the ability to weaponize conqueror haki. Oden not having the ability to actually weaponize conqueror haki would explain why he apparently fell just short of kaido in the end (oden lost because of the trick kaido's subordinates played but he did make the point kaido was the stronger one. AND kaido didn't even use his hybrid form against oden).

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Oden was definitely a conqueror haki user, that's not in question. But we never saw him engaged in a clash similar to how roger and wb clashed. And the lightning effect is ultimately there regardless of whether the people in question have the ability to weaponize conqueror haki. Oden not having the ability to actually weaponize conqueror haki would explain why he apparently fell just short of kaido in the end (oden lost because of the trick kaido's subordinates played but he did make the point kaido was the stronger one. AND kaido didn't even use his hybrid form against oden).

Neither did Kaido, he made contact with Luffy, but it's said that he used King's Haki.

Oden also has those streaks.

It also wouldn't explain why he fell short, it'd simply mean Kaido was just that strong. Weaponising King's Haki doesn't mean you can't lose anymore.

However, Oden's the only one to have permanently damaged him meaning he gets the benefit of the doubt especially when Kaido put him up with the greats including Whitebeard, Roger, Shanks and Rocks. It'd be odd if he wasn't able to weaponise King's Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 11, 2021 ---

This panel is weird.

It looks like King's Haki too, lol.

Next chapter, we might see Kinemon doing what Luffy's doing, and it won't be King's Haki.

Apparently, these lightening effect might be and might not be King's Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2021 ---

Only reasonable reasoning I can give here is all their combined power emulates the power of King's Haki, but if that's the case, even Zoro's Asura should have given off similar lightening since it was strong enough to scar Kaido.

At this point, it's either nay or yea. Consistency is apparently non-existent now, lol.

 

[kkck]

Neither did Kaido, he made contact with Luffy, but it's said that he used King's Haki.

Oden also has those streaks.

It also wouldn't explain why he fell short, it'd simply mean Kaido was just that strong. Weaponising King's Haki doesn't mean you can't lose anymore.

However, Oden's the only one to have permanently damaged him meaning he gets the benefit of the doubt especially when Kaido put him up with the greats including Whitebeard, Roger, Shanks and Rocks. It'd be odd if he wasn't able to weaponise King's Haki.

The streaks in that image with oden are the ones seen most times when conqueror haki users release it. The exact same pattern is seen when luffy and chinjao clashed or when luffy and doflamingo clashed. The pattern though is different when people who can weaponize conqueror haki clash. When kaido, roger and WB use it the haki seemingly leaks out their weapons. In luffy's case against kaido we see a similar effect to roger and WB coming from his fist. We never really see this black pattern "leaking" out of oden's blades.

I agree in that weaponizing king's haki is not the end all of fighting. BUT it is a pretty huge advantage to lord over others. The mechanics are still unknown to us but by all appearances cladding yourself in conqueror haki is basically an extra layer on top of your armor haki... One that is not available to 99.9% of fighters in the series. It's also possibly the reason why kaido and big mom seemed so invulnerable, specially considering how big mom became vulnerable when her will faltered....