Politics Hamas-Israel conflict

[Tenryuken]

Hamas will be soon history.

 

[Akasunanosasori]

So then a truce is going in between the two groups would be good for Hamas. The Israeli's invaded Gaza because of the rocket fire on the land. To get this truce going rocket fire would have to end because if it doesn't happen then Israel would just keep going and more Palestinians would die. So then they should logiclly stop the rocket fire because there is no plusses and when your this badly on the losing side you should concede(within reason and stopping rocket fire is plenty reasonable) so it doesn't turn out to bad.

SO WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY?

just watch al jazeera english a bit not ur tv station who fake news to support israel cuz we all know that U.S support israel they even refused to vote on the Un reunion to stop the war.

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Hamas will be soon history.

lol sure sure that's what israel said while attacking lebanon to erase hizbollah ^^

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But what I can judge from Hamas' position is that they want it really bad - that is the growth of hatred between Palestians against Israelis at a high cost (the murdering of innocent people) just to gather more support in an evil way.

how can u love a contry who kills ur ppl without mercy.

 

[Dhazard]

how can u love a contry who kills ur ppl without mercy.

I agree with you, I am not talking about love, I am talking about peace. My thoughts are pretty much concerned about innocent civillians who just want PEACE to make it stop even if it means accepting 'defeat'.
Gandhi was a great man with great ideas that I subscribe to.

lol sure sure that's what israel said while attacking lebanon to erase hizbollah ^^

That is no way funny. Hizbollah did shit over the country of people I descend from. No funny, it is hateful what they did and what Lebanon suffered bc of their egoistical actions.

 

[Tenryuken]

There will never be peace even with truce if the Hamas don't stop launching rackets to Israel.
And the fact that Israel couldn't take the Hezbollah down means that they aren't such a big army.

 

[Akasunanosasori]

I agree with you, I am not talking about love, I am talking about peace. My thoughts are pretty much concerned about innocent civillians who just want PEACE to make it stop even if it means accepting 'defeat'.
Gandhi was a great man with great ideas that I subscribe to.

indeed peace is just great we all dream bout a world without war but how can we realise that with contries who doesn't even respect the rules of war ??

 

[Tenryuken]

how can we realise that with contries who doesn't even respect the rules of war ??

By not making war with them.
War isn't fun.

 

[Akasunanosasori]

That is no way funny. Hizbollah did shit over the country of people I descend from. No funny, it is hateful what they did and what Lebanon suffered bc of their egoistical actions.

I said "lol" cuz someone think that this is like a video game, earasing hamas is a very big and dificult mission.
Don't forget that Hizbollah Ended Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon .

 

[Dhazard]

indeed peace is just great we all dream bout a world without war but how can we realise that with contries who doesn't even respect the rules of war ??
I said "lol" cuz someone think that this is like a video game, earasing hamas is a very big and dificult mission.

If Hamas didn't make such stupid move, that wouldn't be happening. You are failing to see my point.
Israel is also being stubborn about this and, of course, I do hate the course of action it's been taken...

Don't forget that Hizbollah Ended Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon .

So what? At what cost? I'd rather they remained there till peaceful resolution. The Syrian folks and their army also contributed to a terrible event that happened in the beloved country of my grand-grandma..

 

[Tenryuken]

@Akasunanosasori
It isn't because it's difficult that it doesn't have to be.

 

[Akasunanosasori]

There will never be peace even with truce if the Hamas don't stop launching rackets to Israel.
And the fact that Israel couldn't take the Hezbollah down means that they aren't such a big army. .

Israel is the 3th strong army in the M-east and yet they couldn't take hizbollah down .

By not making war with them.
War isn't fun.

this is like a game for u !

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If Hamas didn't make such stupid move, that wouldn't be happening. You are failing to see my point.
Israel is also being stubborn about this and, of course, I do hate the course of action it's been taken...

First gaza was in the israeli hands (a palestinian city) then after many and many rockets were lunched toward, n after a lot of politics negiciation israel was sick n gave palestinian gaza back (the gave every israeli citizen more than 220 000 $ i don't have the exact number and it was payed by the us to all the former citizen of gaza, israeli.
After that Israel kept her army in all the borders of gaza in sea too wich made it a virtual prison and they gave their soldiers the rights to do what they want i mean by that they can remove passports or stop some palestinian from entring gaza, hamas couldn't allow that so they started the rockets lunching wich pissed israel off and made them attack gaza n kill innocent ppl .

Hamas didn't make any stupid move.

 

[XxVascoxX]

just watch al jazeera english a bit not ur tv station who fake news to support israel cuz we all know that U.S support israel they even refused to vote on the Un reunion to stop the war.

Ya true , U.s. has High Jews officials in charge and they completely support Israel(which is using Really unfair means against Gaza).
its no more a fight (war) it has become a demolition

Israel is using weapons Such as napalm ,high Bomb lauchers and heavy rocket lauchers .its really too much as a war you simply can't use all your heavy Weapons against an enemy who artillery is Much smaller .

**Besides there are really more death in Gaza that in israel.

Since U.s. has Israel as main Support in the middle east they refused to simply agree to the peace treaty ,losing israel means losing position in middle east and no longer having a an ideal partner in war.

 

[Dhazard]

First gaza was in the israeli hands (a palestinian city) then after many and many rockets were lunched toward, n after a lot of politics negiciation israel was sick n gave palestinian gaza back (the gave every israeli citizen more than 220 000 $ i don't have the exact number and it was payed by the us to all the former citizen of gaza, israeli.
After that Israel kept her army in all the borders of gaza in sea too wich made it a virtual prison and they gave their soldiers the rights to do what they want i mean by that they can remove passports or stop some palestinian from entring gaza, hamas couldn't allow that so they started the rockets lunching wich pissed israel off and made them attack gaza n kill innocent ppl .

Hamas didn't make any stupid move.

So? Couldn't allow that? And that is why they, instead of contact other countries that supposedly are at their side to begin conversations about this, preferred to start an already lost offensive?

And are you sure Hamas didn't make any stupid move? Are you blindly accepting that Hamas didn't know what was going to happen to the civillian population? Don't give me that crap speech...

 

[Tenryuken]

First gaza was in the israeli hands (a palestinian city) then after many and many rockets were lunched toward, n after a lot of politics negiciation israel was sick n gave palestinian gaza back.

ONLY after a lot of politics negiciation.
Not Hamas.

And about the school that got bombed it was due to Hamas launching rockets from there during the 3 hours pause and then people like you wonders why Israel bomb schools.

So? Couldn't allow that? And that is why they, instead of contact other countries that supposedly are at their side to begin conversations about this, preferred to start an already lost offensive?

Hamas doesn't even want to discuss with the other Palestinians.

 

[Akasunanosasori]

So? Couldn't allow that? And that is why they, instead of contact other countries that supposedly are at their side to begin conversations about this, preferred to start an already lost offensive?

just tell me an arab contrie that will stand against U.S ??
the arab contries made their move after 700 civilian died and israel is in palestine for more than 60 year why did anyone from those countries that supposedly are at their side act ??
And are you sure Hamas didn't make any stupid move? Are you blindly accepting that Hamas didn't know what was going to happen to the civillian population? Don't give me that crap speech...[/QUOTE]
Hamas is just defending palestine !

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Hamas doesn't even want to discuss with the other Palestinians.

Hamas doesn't want to discuss with FATH .
I told u befor u have a huge mass of fake information bout what's happening there.

 

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

A lot of you just look at how bad Hamas are, but Israel aren't any good either. Let's get this straight, both are bad, but the fact is, this is fact not propaganda, bullshit, or anything like that, Israel are killing more innocent civilians than Hamas are. Do Israel care about killing hundreds of civilians and wounding many? Truth is no. Do Hamas care about killing Israelis? No.
Just remember if Israel really cared about limiting the amount of killings of the innocent civilians, the death/wounded count would be much lower.

Now let's say this was Hamas, bombarding Israel, killing hundreds. What would the international response be? Of course it would be different, there would be more steps to stop it. Why isn't this happening when Israel are doing it? It's simple they have the backing of US while Hamas don't.

What Israel are doing is genocide, no it's not an over-reaction, definition: "Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."

Let's make this simple, a neighbour sets fire to your house, then you set fire to their house, as well as their relatives houses, friends houses,etc. And then you say "it's alright,they started it."

And don't even think I'm pro-hamas, I just don't like how people view this good vs evil, when it's bad vs bad. The fact is one (Israel) is killing more than the other right now.

If Hamas were doing what Israel are doing, there would be more international outrage and a more powerful response. There would be more stops by US, UK or whatever to save the Israeli population, which leads me to believe unfortunately that Israeli people's lives are given more worth than Palestinians, which could be down to Western influence.

P.S: Don't go around bashing Al-Jazeera English if you have never watched it. You have no right to say your news is better than others with no evidence.

 

[Dhazard]

A lot of you jsut look at how bad Hamas are, but Israel aren't any good either. Let's get this straight, both are bad, but the fact is, this is fact not propaganda, bullshit, or anything like that, Israel are killing more innocent civilians than Hamas are. Do Israel care about killing hundreds of civilians and wounding many? Truth is no. Do Hamas care about killing Israelis? No.
Just remember if Israel really cared about limiting the amount of killings of the innocent civilians, the death/wounded count would be much lower.

Now let's say this was Hamas, bombarding Israel, killing hundreds. What would the international response be? Of course it would be different, there would be more steps to stop it. Why isn't this happening when Israel are doing it? It's simple they have the backing of US while Hamas don't.

That is why I wrote
"If Hamas didn't make such stupid move, that wouldn't be happening. You are failing to see my point.
Israel is also being stubborn about this and, of course, I do hate the course of action it's been taken..."
and posted this article:

The dire cost of domestic rivalries

Spoiler

Israel seems more concerned with electoral politics and restoring its military reputation than stopping the Qassam rockets
Comments (…)

* Neve Gordon
*
o Neve Gordon
o guardian.co.uk, Monday 29 December 2008 13.00 GMT
o Article history

The first bombardment took three minutes and 40 seconds. Sixty Israeli F-16 fighter jets bombed 50 sites in Gaza, killing more than 200 Palestinians, and wounding close to 1,000 more.

A few hours after the deadly strike, Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert convened a press conference in Tel-Aviv. With foreign minister Tzipi Livni sitting on his right and defence minister Ehud Barak on his left, he declared: "It may take time, and each and every one of us must be patient so we can complete the mission."

But what exactly, one might ask, is Israel's mission?

Although Olmert did not say as much, the "mission" includes four distinct objectives.

The first is the destruction of Hamas, a totally unrealistic goal. Even though the loss of hundreds of cadres and some key leaders will no doubt hurt the organisation, Hamas is a robust political movement with widespread grassroots support, and it is unlikely to surrender or capitulate to Israeli demands following a military assault. Ironically, Israel's attempt to destroy Hamas using military force has always ended up strengthening the organisation, thus corroborating the notion that power produces its own vulnerability.

The second objective has to do with Israel's coming elections. The assault on Gaza is also being carried out to help Kadima and Labour defeat Likud and its leader Binyamin Netanyahu, who is currently ahead in the polls. It is not coincidental that Netanyahu's two main competitors, Livni and Barak, were invited to the press conference – since, after the assault, it will be more difficult for Netanyahu to characterise them as "soft" on the Palestinians. Whether or not the devastation in Gaza will help Livni defeat Netanyahu or help Barak gain votes in the February elections is difficult to say, but the strategy of competing with a warmonger like Netanyahu by beating the drums of war says a great deal about all three major contenders.

The third objective involves the Israeli military. After its notable humiliation in Lebanon during the summer of 2006, the IDF has been looking for opportunities to re-establish its global standing. Last spring it used Syria as its laboratory and now it has decided to focus on Gaza. Emphasising the mere three minutes and 40 seconds it took to bomb 50 sites is just one the ways the Israeli military aims to restore its international reputation.

Finally, Hamas and Fatah have not yet reached an agreement regarding how to proceed when Mahmoud Abbas ends his official term as president of the Palestinian National Authority on January 9. One of the outcomes of this assault is that Abbas will remain in power for a while longer since Hamas will be unable to mobilise its supporters in order to force him to resign.

What is clearly missing from this list of Israeli objectives is the attempt to halt the firing of Qassam rockets into Israel's southern towns. Unlike the objectives I mentioned, which are not discussed by government officials, this one is presented by the government as the operation's primary objective. Yet, the government is actively misleading the public, since Israel could have put an end to the rockets a long time ago. Indeed, there was relative quiet during the six-months truce with Hamas, a quiet that was broken most often as a reaction to Israeli violence: that is, following the extra-judicial execution of a militant or the imposition of a total blockade which prevented basic goods, like food stuff and medicine, from entering the Gaza Strip. Rather than continuing the truce, the Israeli government has once again chosen to adopt strategies of violence that are tragically akin to the ones deployed by Hamas; only, the Israeli ones are much more lethal.

If the Israeli government really cared about its citizens and the country's long term ability to sustain itself in the Middle East, it would abandon the use of violence and talk with its enemies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/israelandthepalestinians-middleeast

What Israel are doing is genocide, no it's not an over-reaction, definition: "Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."

Let's make this simple, a neighbour sets fire to your house, then you set fire to their house, as well as their relatives houses, friends houses,etc. And then you say "it's alright,they started it."

And don't even think I'm pro-hamas, I just don't like how people view this good vs evil, when it's bad vs bad. The fact is one (Israel) is killing more than the other right now.

If Hamas were doing what Israel are doing, there would be more international outrage and a more powerful response. There would be more stops by US, UK or whatever to save the Israeli population, which leads me to believe unfortunately that Israeli people's lives are given more worth than Palestinians, which could be down to Western influence.

And I totally agree with you!

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just tell me an arab contrie that will stand against U.S ??
the arab contries made their move after 700 civilian died and israel is in palestine for more than 60 year why did anyone from those countries that supposedly are at their side act ??
And are you sure Hamas didn't make any stupid move? Are you blindly accepting that Hamas didn't know what was going to happen to the civillian population? Don't give me that crap speech...
Hamas is just defending palestine !
<hr noshade size="1">

No, they are not. They wouldn't have began this offensive at all if they ever cared about palestine.
And don' translate "begin conversations" as "stand against the U.S."
They are two different things.
BTW, I wonder which country is helping smuggling/selling weapons to Hamas (and profiting from it!) and causing the deaths of Palestinians/Israeli instead of acting in a real caring way. That is why I wrote "supposedly" in the first place...

 

[Koen]

Blah, normally I wouldn't react but these issues sometimes ask for a reaction. For once though. About this conflict: I can see some truth when people dislike Israel's way of handling this conflict. Then again, I think lots of people forget it was hamas who discarded a truce. It was hamas who started firing rockets to Israel. I didn't hear the international community crying back then, nevertheless those bombings could end up with innocenent casualties too. Sorry, but similar to the hezbollah case; Hamas, thus Gaza, could have expected a military raid into the region (it was even warned several times before to simply stop it).

I certainly reject bombing a UN school, I certainly reject killing innocent people, I certainly reject cluster munition. War, what is good for? Absolutely nothing.

My conclusion: taking a side is everyone's right. But we could start to look to ourself. The international community: the UN and its security council simply failed again. Btw, what annoys me the most is how mediafocused this conflict is. I also want to say to the neutral actors and that international community: don't ignore and forget darfoer, don't ignore and forget zimbabwe, etc things going on there are 10.000 times worse.

 

[Onomatopoeia]

Most of u are fooled by fake media reports who try to change the truth like CNN...
Morocco is a peace contry and we are already dealing with something like that peacefully (polisarion) n what are we killing civilians ? no.

first of all u should know why hamas started lunching rockets on israel cuz apparently u don't have politic knowledge.

First gaza was in the israeli hands (a palestinian city) then after many and many rockets were lunched toward, n after a lot of politics negiciation israel was sick n gave palestinian gaza back (the gave every israeli citizen more than 220 000 $ i don't have the exact number and it was payed by the us to all the former citizen of gaza, israeli.
After that Israel kept her army in all the borders of gaza in sea too wich made it a virtual prison and they gave their soldiers the rights to do what they want i mean by that they can remove passports or stop some palestinian from entring gaza, hamas couldn't allow that so they started the rockets lunching wich pissed israel off and made them attack gaza n kill innocent ppl .

And dude israel is still uncapable to reach some important places cuz of the strong resistance of hamas yesturday 12 israeli soldier were killed.

Ah israel is loosing this war why ?
cuz their first objectif is to stop the rockets lunching but they are failing.

And dude israel is a terorriust contry just remember what happned with al Durra the 12 years old boy who was killed by israeli soldiers in his fathers arms in front of cameras .



The whole world is accusing israel alot of european contries are against what israel is doing and yet u are trying to make it look like an angle of peace who cares about ppls life .

Let me put it simply. A country fires rockets into Morroco, diplomatic solutions are impossible, Morroco has complete military superiority. How does Morroco reply? Answer the question and don't try to get around it.

Israel isn't killing Citizens on purpose it's war. The fact is they're not purposely trying to kill civilians. Hamas hides behind it's civilians and not only that but Gaza is pretty small and very densely populated. Imagine a war happening in San Francisco or Paris or Birmingham. It's war people will die, there is no way to get around it, it's terrible but it's true.

You mean to tell me that despite the fact that Hamas ability to fire rockets isn't being cut down despite the fact that it is? Israel's objective of the war is succesful. War will make the objective happen but on a much bloodier path. The objective is to cut down Hamas's ability to fire rockets/destroy Hamas's infastructure. Israel is winning the war. I can't believe your trying to argue this.

I never mentioned that Israel's only trying to keep this truce to save civilians I only mentioned what would happen if a truce was put in place. Stop putting words into my mouth. It's an after-effect of the truce. Israel isn't a saint no one claims they are.

Looked around and I didn't find any 12 Israeli soldiers dying in one day. The full numbers at all the sites are 10 soldiers. I call BS.

Israel gave up Gaza thats all I'm reading. Of course their were Israel soldiers on the borders. Hamas is hostile to Israel, of course they're going to patrol Gaza strip and no it's not like a prison. They can easily leave through Egypt. By your reasoning South Korea and North Korea are both prisons. This is common sense nothing more, if they didn't want Israeli's troops to patrol the borders then they shouldn't be hostile to Israel. It's not Israel's fault if they don't trust a goverment that wants to wipe Israel off the face of the planet. And has shown that they're willing to go to the extremes to do it.

I don't watch the News stop guessing on what I do or don't do without any prior knowledge. Televised News in general is generally crap.

Again why the hell doesn't Hamas stop firing rockets into Israel. The Death toll can only increase, fuck the "crusades" against Israel, it's not like the rockets are going to help at all. Who the hell cares about what happened 60 years ago when right now your people are dying. Just agree to the truce and try out Passive Resistance for a change.

@T.D.A Does attempting to systematiclly destroy Hamas a political group really count as Genocide? I think it's a weird definition to include "National" or "Political" groups in the definition. Because by that definition the systematic destruction of the Nazis by the Allies would go under Genocide. And no I don't think Israel is trying systematiclly destroy the palestinians.

Also I in general hate the term "Genocide" for this conflict and most things in general(because people use the word way to freely). If this is Genocide then what is Darfur?

 

[Tenryuken]

A lot of you jsut look at how bad Hamas are, but Israel aren't any good either. Let's get this straight, both are bad, but the fact is, this is fact not propaganda, bullshit, or anything like that, Israel are killing more innocent civilians than Hamas are. Do Israel care about killing hundreds of civilians and wounding many? Truth is no. Do Hamas care about killing Israelis? No.

So if Hamas killed that much Israeli than it would be OK?

Just remember if Israel really cared about limiting the amount of killings of the innocent civilians, the death/wounded count would be much lower.

Not if Hamas continue to use the population as a shield.

Now let's say this was Hamas, bombarding Israel, killing hundreds. What would the international response be?

When Israel was attacked by all those Arab countries at his creation, what was the international response?

Of course it would be different, there would be more steps to stop it. Why isn't this happening when Israel are doing it? It's simple they have the backing of US while Hamas don't.

And Hamas get his ammunition from God?

Let's make this simple, a neighbour sets fire to your house, then you set fire to their house, as well as their relatives houses, friends houses,etc. And then you say "it's alright,they started it."

No but if you tell me that you're going to do nothing and let the members of your family inside your house die and those who escaped by chance live in fear and above of this leting them burn your house over and over again EVERYTIME and then you(not your neighbor) rebuilt it(money doesn't fall from the sky) without ever retaliate, I would say that you are a big LIAR.

And don't even think I'm pro-hamas, I just don't like how people view this good vs evil, when it's bad vs bad. The fact is one (Israel) is killing more than the other right now.

again, if Hamas killed as much as Israel it would be OK, rite?
Maybe be someday you'll understand that the problem isn't that Israel is killing more people than Hamas.

If Hamas were doing what Israel are doing, there would be more international outrage and a more powerful response. There would be more stops by US, UK or whatever to save the Israeli population, which leads me to believe unfortunately that Israeli people's lives are given more worth than Palestinians, which could be down to Western influence.

You really like to repeat yourself IN THE SAME POST, don't you?

Don't go around bashing Al-Jazeera English if you have never watched it. You have no right to say your news is better than others with no evidence.

I know it wasn't directed at me but I have Al-Jazeera English and the news is just the same as on my usual news channel(RTL).

I think lots of people forget it was hamas who discarded a truce.

And still some posters don't realise that Hamas started this well knowing of the repercutions.

It was hamas who started firing rockets to Israel. I didn't hear the international community crying back then.

If I had the same mind set of a certain poster in this tread I would just say "it's because the UN value more the lives of Palestinians".

Sorry, but similar to the hezbollah case; Hamas, thus Gaza, could have expected a military raid into the region (it was even warned several times before to simply stop it).

Hamas don't care about the innocent deaths of his own population and in fact they're even counting on it in the hope that countless innocent civilians die.

I certainly reject bombing a school, I certainly reject killing innocent people.

If the Director of the school was retarded enough to let Hamas launch rockets from his school means that he doesn't care about his OWN scholars but everybody else should?
And doing this means that they weren't innocent annymore cuz launching rockets to a foreign country is an ACT OF WAR.

Btw, what annoys me the most is how mediafocused this conflict is. I also want to say to the neutral actors and that international community: don't ignore and forget darfoer, don't ignore and forget zimbabwe, etc things going on there are 10.000 times worse.

The Arabs are in control of most of the world's oil supply and they want the attention of the world.
Darfoer is what I trully call a Genocide but for Zimbabwe it's internal.

Let me put it simply. A country fires rockets into Morroco, diplomatic solutions are impossible, Morroco has complete military superiority. How does Morroco reply? Answer the question and don't try to get around it.

I doubt that he will ever respond to this cuz he knows that you're right.

 

[segua]

The USA land belongs to the native indians. does that give them the right to come now and take it by force again? (actually they cant because they don't exist anymore <.<) USA people wont agree with that because it doesnt make sens.
I think this is my last post in this thread.
good luck and have fun.

Wait a minute. What do you mean by "they don't exist anymore?" There are still Native Americans living today. Some live in reservations.

Anyway, killing civilians is what is known as "collateral damage." Disgusting I think but that's how the U.S. military writes it off.