Fun Hunter x Hunter Hangout Thread [01]

[SHINOBI-03]

Just wait for the scans, I saw it in the TOC page that Kaze uploaded in the otaku shoten section.

And? I don't see anything HxH-related.

 

[Txapeldun]

Well, then check again. Page 356. It's writen in the left side. Under Kuroko no Basket's picture.
Scans should come soon.

 

[Lutv]

Well, then check again. Page 356. It's writen in the left side. Under Kuroko no Basket's picture.
Scans should come soon.

Yes its in here
That must be movie related

 

[Nii]

That aside, you should really check out Lukas31's works, his Hunter x Hunter pics are so amazing

Some examples:

Spoiler

Pixiv account: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=1905471

 

[kindredxiuxiu]

IT'S SO GOOD.

Dat Kalluto pic is really really gorgeous.

 

[shuha27]

I finally caught up to the recent chapters in Hunter x Hunter and I have to say it is the best shounen I read so far! All of the characters are amazing and the all the arcs were written well. I'm just miserable now because I don't know when the next chapter will come out

 

[Phantron]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

As far as I can tell the feedback for the latest HXH is pretty bad, even in Japan. Shonen Jump probably don't care because it's not like HXH is clogging up valuable space for other promising manga. HXH might sell a lot per volume but since it produces 1 volume in the time it takes Bleach to produce 5, it's not exactly that impressive from a sales point of view.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

As far as I can tell the feedback for the latest HXH is pretty bad, even in Japan. Shonen Jump probably don't care because it's not like HXH is clogging up valuable space for other promising manga. HXH might sell a lot per volume but since it produces 1 volume in the time it takes Bleach to produce 5, it's not exactly that impressive from a sales point of view.

Really? Weird. You'd think with it selling so much that it actually compares to a series that is serialized properly that the reception would be better....though are you sure that it's not people bitching about how he didn't redraw stuff compared to people bitching about where the story is going? Bitching is bitching, but I think it'd be nice to know exactly what kind of bitching people are doing.....bitching.

 

[Phantron]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

Really? Weird. You'd think with it selling so much that it actually compares to a series that is serialized properly that the reception would be better....though are you sure that it's not people bitching about how he didn't redraw stuff compared to people bitching about where the story is going? Bitching is bitching, but I think it'd be nice to know exactly what kind of bitching people are doing.....bitching.

People usually don't stop buying something unless it's atrociously bad so just because people are complainng like usual doesn't mean they'll stop buying the manga. I've seen stuff far worse than HXH that still managed to sell roughly equal to its historic average. That said I doubt Shonen Jump will want to deal with Togashi again if he was to start over. I'm guessing Togashi doesn't need the money anyway (which is why he's on hiatus) so it's not like they can force him to stop right now, and given the lack of quality stuff in general if they put up with him for this long they might as well continue do so. That doesn't mean Togashi is great or anything, and if sales is supposed to be everything then HXH is still less valuable to Shonen Jump than say, Bleach. Perhaps it says more about the lack of quality in general because at the height of Shonen Jump, something like Bleach would have an awful hard time surviving this long.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

People usually don't stop buying something unless it's atrociously bad so just because people are complainng like usual doesn't mean they'll stop buying the manga. I've seen stuff far worse than HXH that still managed to sell roughly equal to its historic average. That said I doubt Shonen Jump will want to deal with Togashi again if he was to start over. I'm guessing Togashi doesn't need the money anyway (which is why he's on hiatus) so it's not like they can force him to stop right now, and given the lack of quality stuff in general if they put up with him for this long they might as well continue do so. That doesn't mean Togashi is great or anything, and if sales is supposed to be everything then HXH is still less valuable to Shonen Jump than say, Bleach. Perhaps it says more about the lack of quality in general because at the height of Shonen Jump, something like Bleach would have an awful hard time surviving this long.

That....doesn't really answer my question. I was hoping to get specific complaints about the manga, not so much your opinion. I'm sure at this point Togashi will probably never touch a manga again after HXH, so I don't think Shuiesha would have to worry about him begging to do more. If he were really that invested in drawing, Shueisha wouldn't have to ask him to do anything because he'd already be doing it. Whether it's worth as much money as Bleach is sort of irrelevant too. It's not like the bigwigs are saying 'Uh, well this Bleach thing that's selling pretty well and is consistently in the magazine when compared to your manga so we're just gonna pull the plug on HXH, and move on with our lives while making more money with Bleach.' There are obviously other qualifiers that keep the series (or lack therof) in the magazine besides sales. For all we know, if HXH was properly serialized, it would be doing as well as Bleach or better, especially as it seems to be on a decline anyway. Here's the thing though; we'll never know since HXH isn't properly serialized. I dunno if quality has anything to do with it either since people will ultimately like what they like whether it's great or garbage. Attesting to the height of SJ really doesn't speak much because of this little fact. You can attribute certain booms to certain genres, but saying 'At the height of Jump this wouldn't be popular' is a pretty broad generalization. We can only speak of what is popular in past tense since no one knows what'll be big until it's already big. I'm sure at the time that they decided to run it, the Shuiesha guys probably didn't think a manga about a rubber pirate would become as big as it is, and according to some, they dropped the ball on a certain manga about Titans too.

 

[Phantron]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

While most of the complaints would be about the art (or lack there of) it's not like the Election Arc itself was well received. The extremely long serials reflects that we're in an era of relatively weak competition because things aren't supposed to go for 30 or more volumes very often and right now you got at least 3 manga in Shonen Jump that are above 60 volumes, and it sure isn't because the current stuff is so much better than what we had before. If there's significant competition you'd see stuff ending in the 20-30 volumes or even earlier because it's just really not that easy to keep something interesting for a long time before people get bored with something else. Heck even HXH is on volume 32.

At any rate HXH's decline is mostly from a critical point of view. That is people who are hardcore about manga may feel disappointed with the way the series is going but there sure aren't enough of those guys to make a meaningful effect on sales either way, and certainly HXH at its worst is still more than competitive against most of the junk a bookstore might attempt to sell to you, so even if you're thoroughly disappointed with the series it's not like there's better alternatives. But make no mistake Shonen Jump is declining and maybe manga in general. If you look at sales numbers, once you remove an outlier like One Piece the overall sales are pretty bad compared to say when Dragonball was around. Now part of it might also be because of the Internet but that doesn't explain why Bleach which you can probably find as the definition of 'generic shonen' lasted as long as it did. Not saying that the average manga was better in the past but something as generic as Bleach would've lasted only 20 volumes because there's going to be 10 other ones exactly like it and people would get bored with it by then and Shonen Jump is pretty ruthless about replacing unpopular manga, and there's no reason why Bleach would've been popular simply because there used to be 10 other manga that's exactly like it. The fact that completely generic stuff stays on Shonen Jump for 60 volumes suggest they don't really have anything better to replace them with.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

While most of the complaints would be about the art (or lack there of) it's not like the Election Arc itself was well received. The extremely long serials reflects that we're in an era of relatively weak competition because things aren't supposed to go for 30 or more volumes very often and right now you got at least 3 manga in Shonen Jump that are above 60 volumes, and it sure isn't because the current stuff is so much better than what we had before. If there's significant competition you'd see stuff ending in the 20-30 volumes or even earlier because it's just really not that easy to keep something interesting for a long time before people get bored with something else. Heck even HXH is on volume 32.

At any rate HXH's decline is mostly from a critical point of view. That is people who are hardcore about manga may feel disappointed with the way the series is going but there sure aren't enough of those guys to make a meaningful effect on sales either way, and certainly HXH at its worst is still more than competitive against most of the junk a bookstore might attempt to sell to you, so even if you're thoroughly disappointed with the series it's not like there's better alternatives. But make no mistake Shonen Jump is declining and maybe manga in general. If you look at sales numbers, once you remove an outlier like One Piece the overall sales are pretty bad compared to say when Dragonball was around. Now part of it might also be because of the Internet but that doesn't explain why Bleach which you can probably find as the definition of 'generic shonen' lasted as long as it did. Not saying that the average manga was better in the past but something as generic as Bleach would've lasted only 20 volumes because there's going to be 10 other ones exactly like it and people would get bored with it by then and Shonen Jump is pretty ruthless about replacing unpopular manga, and there's no reason why Bleach would've been popular simply because there used to be 10 other manga that's exactly like it. The fact that completely generic stuff stays on Shonen Jump for 60 volumes suggest they don't really have anything better to replace them with.

Honestly, according to what you're saying pretty much anything that lasts more than a few years or so is garbage and whatever medium allows for longevity is in decline. I agree with what you're saying, but things are almost never that black and white. That's sorta like saying 'I fucking hate One piece, but I don't want to look for an alternative because everything else may or may not suck. So I'll just keep buying One piece cause it sucks significantly less, and because no one thinks for themselves and or feels the same way that that's how One piece became popular. To be honest I never quite understand why people have this mentality that because they don't like something that it intrinsically must be the worst thing ever, or once they get bored of something they're given license to trash entire genres. At one point I enjoyed the series, but now I hate Naruto with a passion but I don't say that a whole magazine is in decline because they choose to continue it's serialization for the sake of people who do like it. Not to mention you're kind of generalizing again by claiming that sales are down simply because people aren't buying Jump manga or certain manga in general. You mention the internet like it's not an important factor when it sort of is. There's much more competition nowadays so of course you're not going to get a centralized figure like you might have when all you had was the weekly Shounen mags. Honestly I don't know or care as to why Bleach lasted as long as it did, nor do I know why one manga barely lasts a volume while another can span a person's lifetime. Personally I'd rather see something cover as much as it can rather than getting shoved out because it ran a volume too long and now the artist has to come up with an ending for an arc in three chapters. I guess that's just me though. Shorter must be better or something.

Which brings me back to HXH. I've said it before that the series isn't exactly this epic of great proportions. Togashi pretty much does whatever interests him during each arc. That's not to say he's incapable of bad writing because everyone is. Though honestly HXH is pretty random most of the time, and the Election arc was pretty much in line with that. I think it's Togashi being Togashi. I asked about what complaints are being said cause I'd like to know these critical points of view. It's easy for someone to say 'Some people said this series isn't that great anymore' when they're trying to qualify their own opinion, when that's not exactly the case. I will agree that HXH at it's worst does beat out several series at their best, but I think it's a liiiiiiitle bit of a stretch to say there are no alternatives. Maybe not in jump but I don't think theres a law saying once you start reading one mag you can't switch or get bored of it. If that is the case, I broke the law a long time ago by getting bored of Jump outside of one or two series.

 

[Phantron]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

Even the harshest critic of One Piece will agree that the series has its brilliance earlier on. Likewise even the harshest critic of HXH can agree it definitely has its brilliance. So the fact that both series seems to be doing quite well despite decline is not unreasonable since in terms of manga buying there's a lot of nostaglia, like 'this used to be good' kind of deal. And if you're going to buy something you might as well buy something that was at least good at some point versus something that was never good.

But something like Bleach? It's basically the definition of generic shonen right there. It's not that generic shonen is bad. It's that there's no way something that can be done by a formula can possibly last very long in an era of high competition because it's just not that hard to do 'generic shonen'. One Piece, by the way, is considerably better than 'generic shonen' at its height (which varies depending on who you ask) even though its premise is definitely very generic shonen. It didn't get its popularity due to sheer accident. It obviously did something right at some point.

Perhaps it's unfair that things that are once good are held to higher expectations. Like you wouldn't say 'Look at how much Bleach has fallen, remember when it used to be good?' because it was never that good to begin with. But that's the burden a manga has to face for actually being good.

Historically serialized manga don't last very long especially if it's actually a story with some kind of progression. Even ignoring the fact that people get bored with the same stuff, it's just very hard to have something that runs for 50 volumes that is still even coherent unless it's something like Doraemon which was never meant to have any sense of development. I wouldn't say manga were better in the past, but competition is definitely a lot weaker today than the past. Whether this is becasue of some fundamental change in the demographics or just a temporary drought I don't know. To put things in perspective, Dragonball had 42 volumes and that was one of the longest manga in serialization, but now there's at least 3 (probably more) manga that's been in serialization longer than it. If Togashi isn't lazy HXH might be pushing 42 too, and it's hard to imagine Togashi is supposed to have more endurance than Toriyama, and it's obviously infinitely easier for Dragonball to pump out large volumes (the plot is essentially recycleable) than HXH. Originally Dragonball went 42 volume only because it was that popular, but now even fairly mediocore manga can go on for that long in Shonen Jump.

 

[leiatte]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

Im with Bomber D. Rufi on this, how can you say that something that lasts along time must not be good, because that doesn't make any sense at all. I love One Piece, and you will find plenty of other people who think One Piece is a great, as well. And part of the reason its survived so long, is because Oda knows how to make the journey enjoyable, intense, and sad. Its not all about the end (we don't even know what One Piece is), its about the journey and people want to go along with the journey for a reason. Also when a story lasts for a long time, you have alot of people that are different ages who look into the story, and it gains fans throughout the time who support it, and that speaks for itself.

People aren't too lazy to search for something else thats good, although some people (like me) who enjoyed a story at some point really try and stick with the series till the end because of past memories. I enjoy Naruto and I enjoy Bleach, they have their ups and downs, but I still think they are solid series and they truly had moments where they were spectacular (Naruto had a lot actually, I just had a problem with the war arc really, but I think its improving again. And Bleach's Soul Society Arc was fantastic IMO.)
I've read a lot of manga (maybe not as much as some of you), and I have read some great stories but I don't think long lasting series are necessarily bad, I find some are popular for a reason, but if you want to state that some stories get worse over time, I'll probably tell you that your right (I feel that way about a couple of stories like HSDK, and Air Gear (Air gear got terrible near the end), even Naruto and Bleach occasionally although Im enjoying Bleach's current arc). Also Kochikame has been going on since the 70's and traveled through and survived Jumps golden age, so I don't know much more to say. I wouldn't call any of those series generic (some ideas, may not be too unique, but that doesn't make them generic at all).

Hunter X Hunter isn't my favorite series in jump, I think its an awesome story and very compelling but I think there are a number of manga who can compete with Hunter X Hunter. also I think its interesting, but like someone said it can be pretty anti-climactic sometimes. I really do enjoy the series though, and can't wait for it to come back from Hiatus, because I want to see this Dark Continent.

P.S. I don't think were in a bad time for manga, just because sales aren't as high as they are in the golden age. I don't think sales will reach that high again anytime soon with the internet. I actually really enjoy this era of manga, there a plenty of gems out there and Hunter X Hunter is one of them.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

Even the harshest critic of One Piece will agree that the series has its brilliance earlier on. Likewise even the harshest critic of HXH can agree it definitely has its brilliance.

I don't actually need to read all of your posts but just the first line. I disagree with both statements. One Piece isn't brilliant early on, it has a special charm and charisma but that was it. Until Oda experiment with longer arcs and his story telling that One Piece develop into a really great shonen. Like even right now, it still feel like Oda is experimenting with the latest arc. However, One Piece didn't reach its peak. It still has quite a potential to outdo itself.

On HxH, I don't particular care for that manga due to the horrendous art (I don't know how he is even given a chance to publish). But his works are successfully adapted in the anime. People complain about the Chimera Ant arc. But as it stand in the anime, the arc is pretty decent and kinda cool in its own way. The chairman election arc?? I think the anime can do wonder for that arc. But as far as set up goes, it is pretty good. And any focus on Killua is welcome.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Re: Hunter x Hunter: The Last Mission (new film, 27/12/2013)

Even the harshest critic of One Piece will agree that the series has its brilliance earlier on. Likewise even the harshest critic of HXH can agree it definitely has its brilliance. So the fact that both series seems to be doing quite well despite decline is not unreasonable since in terms of manga buying there's a lot of nostaglia, like 'this used to be good' kind of deal. And if you're going to buy something you might as well buy something that was at least good at some point versus something that was never good.

But something like Bleach? It's basically the definition of generic shonen right there. It's not that generic shonen is bad. It's that there's no way something that can be done by a formula can possibly last very long in an era of high competition because it's just not that hard to do 'generic shonen'. One Piece, by the way, is considerably better than 'generic shonen' at its height (which varies depending on who you ask) even though its premise is definitely very generic shonen. It didn't get its popularity due to sheer accident. It obviously did something right at some point.

Perhaps it's unfair that things that are once good are held to higher expectations. Like you wouldn't say 'Look at how much Bleach has fallen, remember when it used to be good?' because it was never that good to begin with. But that's the burden a manga has to face for actually being good.

Historically serialized manga don't last very long especially if it's actually a story with some kind of progression. Even ignoring the fact that people get bored with the same stuff, it's just very hard to have something that runs for 50 volumes that is still even coherent unless it's something like Doraemon which was never meant to have any sense of development. I wouldn't say manga were better in the past, but competition is definitely a lot weaker today than the past. Whether this is becasue of some fundamental change in the demographics or just a temporary drought I don't know. To put things in perspective, Dragonball had 42 volumes and that was one of the longest manga in serialization, but now there's at least 3 (probably more) manga that's been in serialization longer than it. If Togashi isn't lazy HXH might be pushing 42 too, and it's hard to imagine Togashi is supposed to have more endurance than Toriyama, and it's obviously infinitely easier for Dragonball to pump out large volumes (the plot is essentially recycleable) than HXH. Originally Dragonball went 42 volume only because it was that popular, but now even fairly mediocore manga can go on for that long in Shonen Jump.

Once again you're really oversimplifying and generalizing a lot here. Or to be more specific, you're basing an argument on a bias that doesn't really take everything into account. It's sort of like someone who eats Subway exclusively, does not exercise but expects to lose as much weight as someone who does exercise. Are you using some series longevity to measure the strength of competition? Isn't that sort of circumspect? Lets break this argument down. What you seem to be suggesting (and I might be wrong) is...

1) Because One piece and other manga that run for a little while haven't ended yet means that everything else surrounding them is of such inferior quality that these series have no choice but to continue running.

2) But these series are actually not that great anyway since people are only still buying them out of a sense of obligation and nostalgia.

Now, to rebuff #1 here, there are currently four series in WSJ that have become established hits and guess what? None of these series have reached volume 10 yet, and none of them are even in the same genre, much less similar to one another. I don't read WSJ outside of three series so I can't really vouch for their quality on a critical standpoint, but if competition is truly as weak as you say it is, then these series wouldn't exist since One piece, Bleach and Naruto are doing good enough. Why bother bringing in anything new when you're already blowing away the competition....unless there is competition? You said it yourself in another post that something like One piece is a anomaly, something that happens only once in awhile. So just because these new series aren't pulling in One piece numbers doesn't mean they aren't viable sales wise.

You also put an overwhelming emphasis on 'nostalgia'. Which is to some extent true but not to the point you're trying to convey. Lets use One piece as an example again. If the high point of the series is lets say around volume 15 or something, and after that the series becomes utter shit and ends at volume 20, nostalgia and the like might compel you to buy those last 5 volumes but it certainly isn't going to keep you buying it more than 30 volumes later. If people who read free scantlations where the only investment they have to make is time, and they can still get fed up with something and drop it what makes you believe that someone will keep buying One piece 30 volumes later just because volumes 1-15 were great? We can even take Bleach for an example of my point here. Sales for it haven't stagnated, they've gonedown.
While something like Gintama or Toriko which have sales that don't really go up but don't really go down by any significant amount continue. At some point nostalgia isn't going to be a good enough reason to compel people to buy something. While you are right that there are people who buy manga because of that very reason, they don't make up the masses like you seem to be insinuating. More than enough people buy these manga because they still find them enjoyable despite their length. According to your logic, every facet of media must be in decline since manga sales, book sales, movie revnue, video game sales and even TV viewership is down. Are you trying to say that everyone is incapable of writing a decent story that doesn't end three months later? Or that everything that lasts must only be because everything else is garbage? Does artist intention even figure into this at all?

In the past, series actually lasted longer on average than now, mainly because there weren't many alternatives. I can't say I have an insider's view of the manga industry, but it seems like before the editor was more in charge of a manga than the mangaka. They could artificially extend a story just because there aren't any other manga out there to bring in money. Nowadays it seems like the artist is more in control and can begin or end a story whenever they see fit. Dragonball as you quoted is an example of this. Toriyama said it himself that he wanted to pull the plug on the series but Shueisha wanted him to keep going. Maybe Togashi is lazy, I dunno. Oda however seems to enjoy what he does (maybe too much even), and wants to keep his series going. Shuiesha has several series that are doing pretty well when compared to sales of other magazines, and while they might cry themselves to sleep for a while once Oda decides to end OP, I doubt the industry as a whole would fail. This goes back to what I said in my last post that people seem to believe that just because they dislike something that it's horrible and everything related to it is horrible too. What's wrong with simply disliking something? I personally love Shounen but do not read Jump outside of the three series I mentioned. What is mediocre? If you ask 20 different people you'll get at least 10 different answers guaranteed. My point is you're not wrong, but you're obviously missing the entire picture.

 

[SHINOBI-03]

 

[YipYip]

Wait for august, somebody said...
Togashi will come back from his hiatus, he said...
Every thing will be awesome, he said...

 

[kindredxiuxiu]

At this point I'm thinking the anime is going to end with chapter 339, and then Togashi will either continue with the manga then or he'll just end it. :|

 

[baboysai]

hush! such ominous statements!