Hangout Hunter x Hunter Hangout Thread [02]

[shionoro]

Never heard of Children of the Corn and not a fan of lady gaga but I'll check it out since you guys got me interested.

I caught up with TG:Re 2 days ago.. and the other manga I was interested in, has just started. one only has 2 chapters out and the other only has 1.

If you guys like horror/thriller/mystery I recommend watching Stranger Things. It came out with the whole season 1 with 8 episodes.

I also enjoyed True Detective...

I am reading slowly, so i am still in chapter 5.
But today my shackles will be broken. If i just work hard today (which i have to due to a deadline which will make me work until exactly 23.59 today) i will have 2 month of freetime and after that month in which i dont have 'FREEEEE' time but still just studying in a field i do enjoy so i basically can do whatever i want since it is not hard work.
And then i will read a lot of manga and i will play a lot of games.

Stranger things is awesome, i watched it in one day. It had everything i like. I look forward to season 2. Only thing i found sad is that the friend of the girl who befriended the missing boy's brother died. She deserved better.

And true detective 1 was a great show, too. I did enjoy season 2, too, but it was nowhere near as good.

 

[Aizen]

Tokyo Ghoul isn't a fake Seinen like, say OPM. It's aimed at older readers and not everyone will understand the story because it is very, very deep. Things like parallels, foreshadowing, using books from within the story and the Fool's Journey to try and trace Kaneki's path is always fun. And the Tokyo Ghoul Trump card deck recently revealed that the Arata Joker Armour worn by Suzuya was literally shown in the card deck all this time. It's the same with the sequel's title. Tokyo Ghoul:re
We were recently told that :re means "King in Maltese so it's been right in front of us the whole time. "Tokyo Ghoul: King"

Dude I would not say OPM is a "fake Seinen" personally. I mean the demographics of Shonen and Seinen mesh together a lot anyway. I agree Tokyo Ghoul is a very strong Seinen,but you don't have to have Tarot cards and deep foreshadowing necessarily to be a Seinen. OPM being a Seinen makes sense to me,it has lots of gore plus it is largely a parody of Shonen in general. Like I said though these demographics don't really matter that much,the only difference to me is that Seinen manga tends to have a little more depth to it. That's in general though,and for me personally I tend to gravitate towards Shonen more because of how diverse it is. Both are great though,and I am also catching up on the Tokyo Ghoul manga now!

 

[kira]

well good luck to you hope you finish what you're working on...

Yes, Stranger Things was amazing. Even my mom was asking me to replay it from the start and then watched it with me in one go. She got totally hooked that she didn't cook dinner until 10 in the evening when we finished watching it.

I didn't really mind Barb dying.. but I agree that she deserved better.

base on the review, everyone seems to agree that season 2 wasn't as good as season 1.

 

[shionoro]

well good luck to you hope you finish what you're working on...

Yes, Stranger Things was amazing. Even my mom was asking me to replay it from the start and then watched it with me in one go. She got totally hooked that she didn't cook dinner until 10 in the evening when we finished watching it.

I didn't really mind Barb dying.. but I agree that she deserved better.

base on the review, everyone seems to agree that season 2 wasn't as good as season 1.

Thank you: trying my best.
There are 10.000 symbols including spaces i have to fill, and then basically just check for spelling errors or bad wording.
But I am a slow worker, overthinking every single character (including spaces ).


____________
Oh that's cool, watching it with your mom.
Maybe stranger things did a smart thing in 'how to attract many viewers'.
People who are attracted to stories with children definitely got their fix there, people who like mystery and horror too, there was a love story mixed inbetween and generally an 80s vibe which connects to a lot of people.

Shows like true detective have a more narrow approach.
The rare thing about stranger things is that i didnt feel like the different parts were taking something away from each other.

_________

True detective season 2 suffered a lot form not being directed by fukunaga and not having the lead character's acting on par with the first couple.
I mean, in season 2, i liked a lot of the imagery, but the mains were less relatable without being interesting enough to justify it, and the actors did not make up for it (maybe it is not their fault but the xript's, but still).

In season 1, a lot of the dialogue and philosophical ideas and talks were outright copied from another author who in fact complained about plagiarizing his work.
It was not bad enough to warrant a lawsuit, but it seems like once the guy who wrote the scripts (pizzolatto) had no other work to fall back on, he could not deliver as much as fans were exspecting.

So we ended up with a work with worse dialogues being played by less charismatic actors and less impressive action and even a less impressive case (the case in season 2 was basically irrelevant because some unlikeable politics guy got murdered. The serroundings of the case were the mainfocus, but that is not as driving for most people as dead and abused girls are).

I think the problem of the Pizzolatto is simply that his first work was better than he could sustain for a longer period of time.
The exspectations were to high. He would have had more possiblities to grow as a showrunner if he had started with smaller projects on a smaller scale.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 30, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 30, 2016 ---

Actually, coming to think of it, HxH is similarly built on several different aspects working with each other, just like stranger things.

It has few fights for a shonen and gives more space to drama and intrigue/tactical thinking (outside of fights) or politics.

 

[Spirit]

Dude I would not say OPM is a "fake Seinen" personally. I mean the demographics of Shonen and Seinen mesh together a lot anyway. I agree Tokyo Ghoul is a very strong Seinen,but you don't have to have Tarot cards and deep foreshadowing necessarily to be a Seinen. OPM being a Seinen makes sense to me,it has lots of gore plus it is largely a parody of Shonen in general. Like I said though these demographics don't really matter that much,the only difference to me is that Seinen manga tends to have a little more depth to it. That's in general though,and for me personally I tend to gravitate towards Shonen more because of how diverse it is. Both are great though,and I am also catching up on the Tokyo Ghoul manga now!

Well Seinen, the way I see it, is aimed at older readers and generally has unconventional themes, which is why OPM is a Seinen I guess. It's pretty unconventional in itself

 

[shionoro]

I know that formally, the only difference in seinen and shonen is the magazine it is published in.
But my definition is:

Shonen: Shonen are mangas which present all of its contexts in a way which any teen boys can appreciate intellectually and it has mostly content appealing to male readers (so no overboarding romance and mostly male protagonists who often do battle).

Seinen: Similarly focussed on male readers (so if there is romance, it is mostly seen via the male perspective), but does take on themes in a way which is not fully appreciateable by a teen audience (which does not mean they cannot like it, but it has nuances and implications which can fly over the head of teens).

In that way, HxH would be a seinen later on (not in the beginning) because some parts of it (like the politics arround the DC and the election arc) are, in my opinion, not really presented in a way suitable for most teens.
Gantz however would be an insanely gory shonen, because, maybe with some exceptions in the beginning, there was no deeper theme presented in gantz. The only reason it might not be suitable for teens is because of the blood and tits, but i think it was mostly read by teens because of the blood and tits.

Another good example for a clear seinen would be Vagabond. I don't think it is even very enjoyable for younger teens. The fights of course are, but everything arround that? Wouldn't think so.

 

[Aizen]

I know that formally, the only difference in seinen and shonen is the magazine it is published in.
But my definition is:

Shonen: Shonen are mangas which present all of its contexts in a way which any teen boys can appreciate intellectually and it has mostly content appealing to male readers (so no overboarding romance and mostly male protagonists who often do battle).

Seinen: Similarly focussed on male readers (so if there is romance, it is mostly seen via the male perspective), but does take on themes in a way which is not fully appreciateable by a teen audience (which does not mean they cannot like it, but it has nuances and implications which can fly over the head of teens).

In that way, HxH would be a seinen later on (not in the beginning) because some parts of it (like the politics arround the DC and the election arc) are, in my opinion, not really presented in a way suitable for most teens.
Gantz however would be an insanely gory shonen, because, maybe with some exceptions in the beginning, there was no deeper theme presented in gantz. The only reason it might not be suitable for teens is because of the blood and tits, but i think it was mostly read by teens because of the blood and tits.

Another good example for a clear seinen would be Vagabond. I don't think it is even very enjoyable for younger teens. The fights of course are, but everything arround that? Wouldn't think so.

Yeah I generally agree with this statement. To me like I said the difference is usually not drastically large,but yes Seinen are in general more complex than Shonen. I think the reasons why at least in the USA where I live so many people of all ages get into Shonen is because I think Japan typically has more leeway in terms of what they can put into "teen shows" than the USA. Which is why I will likely always enjoy many of the Shonens I have read. In other words i look at Shonens as being fun for most ages due to how diverse they are,and Seinen are probably for a bit older audiences but still similar.

 

[shionoro]

Yeah I generally agree with this statement. To me like I said the difference is usually not drastically large,but yes Seinen are in general more complex than Shonen. I think the reasons why at least in the USA where I live so many people of all ages get into Shonen is because I think Japan typically has more leeway in terms of what they can put into "teen shows" than the USA. Which is why I will likely always enjoy many of the Shonens I have read. In other words i look at Shonens as being fun for most ages due to how diverse they are,and Seinen are probably for a bit older audiences but still similar.

Ya definitely. Shonen are a bit like Harry Potter: It is aimed at teens, but a lot of adults still enjoy it as escapism or for genuinely good writing/action.

There are only few anime in the west solely aimed at children in my opinion. Pokemon would be one of them (and even that has an adult fanbase), because the anime banks on repetition and thus willfully alienates the longstanding audience.
A good example for a shonen enjoyable for everyone is probably one piece.
One piece presents each and every one of its darker topics in a very simplified way (like the racism on fishman island or the civil war in alabasta) with very easy 'just punch the bad guy down' solutions (basically, it is always that), but it is still not alienating older viewers because they dig the humor and the action and they do not read one piece for political statements. Thus, it is definitely a shonen by presenting darker topics in a childfriendly way, but a shonen with a big mass appeal.

I think there are not very many works of fiction in generally which can afford to be solely aimed at an older audience.
Even in gaming, M rated games know very well teens are going to buy them and thus cater to that audience, too.

But all of those definitions are vague at best anyway. For example, what is the difference of shojo and shonen? We'd have to define 'boy stuff and girl stuff' for that, which is already really shaky.
For example, seven seeds is seen as a shojo manga, but it is hella lot more gory and brutal than most shonens i know.
So is it a shojo just because it features more romance, some female mains and a more mellow art style? I wouldnt think so, i think it is enjoyed mostly by a seinen audience.

 

[Aizen]

Ya definitely. Shonen are a bit like Harry Potter: It is aimed at teens, but a lot of adults still enjoy it as escapism or for genuinely good writing/action.

There are only few anime in the west solely aimed at children in my opinion. Pokemon would be one of them (and even that has an adult fanbase), because the anime banks on repetition and thus willfully alienates the longstanding audience.
A good example for a shonen enjoyable for everyone is probably one piece.
One piece presents each and every one of its darker topics in a very simplified way (like the racism on fishman island or the civil war in alabasta) with very easy 'just punch the bad guy down' solutions (basically, it is always that), but it is still not alienating older viewers because they dig the humor and the action and they do not read one piece for political statements. Thus, it is definitely a shonen by presenting darker topics in a childfriendly way, but a shonen with a big mass appeal.

I think there are not very many works of fiction in generally which can afford to be solely aimed at an older audience.
Even in gaming, M rated games know very well teens are going to buy them and thus cater to that audience, too.

But all of those definitions are vague at best anyway. For example, what is the difference of shojo and shonen? We'd have to define 'boy stuff and girl stuff' for that, which is already really shaky.
For example, seven seeds is seen as a shojo manga, but it is hella lot more gory and brutal than most shonens i know.
So is it a shojo just because it features more romance, some female mains and a more mellow art style? I wouldnt think so, i think it is enjoyed mostly by a seinen audience.

Yeah basically the lesson is enjoy whatever you enjoy and don't trust democratics hahaha. I agree on One Piece as well,I would only say that the characterization is more complex with many characters then just simple good and evil(the navy or other pirates). It's pretty much the same with Naruto and Bleach which are also like that. One of the problems with these series I think is that very thing though,they have complex themes and then all of a sudden someone gets Talk No Justued lol. Which kinda goes against that in a way,however for me I just enjoy things for what they are,everything has it's flaws. I got into manga through Shonens and will continue to enjoy them,but now I also am expanding to more Seinen type series as well which I am enjoying.

 

[shionoro]

Yeah basically the lesson is enjoy whatever you enjoy and don't trust democratics hahaha. I agree on One Piece as well,I would only say that the characterization is more complex with many characters then just simple good and evil(the navy or other pirates). It's pretty much the same with Naruto and Bleach which are also like that. One of the problems with these series I think is that very thing though,they have complex themes and then all of a sudden someone gets Talk No Justued lol. Which kinda goes against that in a way,however for me I just enjoy things for what they are,everything has it's flaws. I got into manga through Shonens and will continue to enjoy them,but now I also am expanding to more Seinen type series as well which I am enjoying.

A lot of shonen lost my interested when i got older because i just cannot stand the 'idiot hero' trope except in dragon ball.

I felt like the smarter and more careful characters got punished and guys like naruto and luffy always got their way by 'determination'. That really put me off.
I am one of the people who actually have a hard time bearing with shonen.
I don#t like the geniusfighter trope either with all the nonsensial power ups which come plot conveniently.
Exspecially not in naruto, where in the first part naruto made a point by defeating neji that talent is not everything, just to be one of the strongest guys arround by having the kyuubi sealed within him.
Even as a teen, things like that bothered me. I know Gon is a natural genius too, but many hunters are, so that puts it into perspective.

I think i have the easiest time dealing with mains in a story which does not revolve arround him.

´There are stories however in which i find that the overpowered maincharacter is done right.
Berserk is one of those. Gutts is ridicoulusly powerful for a human, but it never seems like guts can just jump into the fray and get out by plot armor. He often has to pay a prize for his fights and never seems arrogant in the battles he chooses, but....well very very angry.

I am pretty sure that i would have dropped HxH instantly if, for example, gon woulda beaten hisoka in heaven's arena by sheer 'oh well i am determined to do it'.

 

[Aizen]

A lot of shonen lost my interested when i got older because i just cannot stand the 'idiot hero' trope except in dragon ball.

I felt like the smarter and more careful characters got punished and guys like naruto and luffy always got their way by 'determination'. That really put me off.
I am one of the people who actually have a hard time bearing with shonen.
I don#t like the geniusfighter trope either with all the nonsensial power ups which come plot conveniently.
Exspecially not in naruto, where in the first part naruto made a point by defeating neji that talent is not everything, just to be one of the strongest guys arround by having the kyuubi sealed within him.
Even as a teen, things like that bothered me. I know Gon is a natural genius too, but many hunters are, so that puts it into perspective.

I think i have the easiest time dealing with mains in a story which does not revolve arround him.

´There are stories however in which i find that the overpowered maincharacter is done right.
Berserk is one of those. Gutts is ridicoulusly powerful for a human, but it never seems like guts can just jump into the fray and get out by plot armor. He often has to pay a prize for his fights and never seems arrogant in the battles he chooses, but....well very very angry.

I am pretty sure that i would have dropped HxH instantly if, for example, gon woulda beaten hisoka in heaven's arena by sheer 'oh well i am determined to do it'.

I completely get where you are coming from,I am not fond of most of the main characters either. Where I think I differ from most people is I watch these shows for the great fights and the side characters, not the main characters,I always have honestly. I do understand why some people like yourself though cannot stomach the main characters,honestly I find myself tired of them as well over time. I think I just find myself accepting it with the series I have already watched,and going forward I am more picky. There is some solid shit in the big three,but I understand why others feel differently. To me they are the anime/manga that got me into this type of media so I have a fondness for them that is not as critical. Luckily some of the more recent Shonen have had imo better main characters like MHA or Shokugeki,not perfect or as good as Kaneki mind you but much better.

 

[shionoro]

I completely get where you are coming from,I am not fond of most of the main characters either. Where I think I differ from most people is I watch these shows for the great fights and the side characters, not the main characters,I always have honestly. I do understand why some people like yourself though cannot stomach the main characters,honestly I find myself tired of them as well over time. I think I just find myself accepting it with the series I have already watched,and going forward I am more picky. There is some solid shit in the big three,but I understand why others feel differently. To me they are the anime/manga that got me into this type of media so I have a fondness for them that is not as critical.

I think i can stomache idiot heroes and even like them, but only if they get crap for being stupid.
Like, in dragon ball, goku and vegeta do a lot of insanely stupid things, but they have to suffer the consequences.
They are strong enough to get it done in the end anyway, but it is not depicted like they did the absolute right thing, like it is in other shonen.

I am fond of some shonen i do not read anymore. One piece being the most notable example.
I loved one piece so much until the arc in which they bet caesar.
I still listen to the soundtrack occasionally and i still think oda is an outstanding mangaka with a great sense of humour.
Maybe that is why i am so disappointed that it didnt quite pull through until the end for me.

If i am perfectly honest: i would still read one piece and love the shit outta it if it was not always luffy who beats the mainboss but other strawhats got real times to shine. They do get times to shine, but they are always outshined by Luffy, and that bugs me. A lot. Because i dislike those escapist fatansies about one guy always pwning the big bad.

That is EXACTLY what i like about HxH with the mains more often than not being outclassed and then ACTUALLY LOSING due to being outclassed.

But that is a personal preference, it is nothing one piece does wrong. Teens and many others love their escapist fantasies and a lot of people would be very let down if suddenly OP arcs would end it anticlimax such as HxH arcs often do. It would be an objectively wrong move by Oda to do that. But it would be a move i would cheer him on for nonetheless <.<

 

[Aizen]

I think i can stomache idiot heroes and even like them, but only if they get crap for being stupid.
Like, in dragon ball, goku and vegeta do a lot of insanely stupid things, but they have to suffer the consequences.
They are strong enough to get it done in the end anyway, but it is not depicted like they did the absolute right thing, like it is in other shonen.

I am fond of some shonen i do not read anymore. One piece being the most notable example.
I loved one piece so much until the arc in which they bet caesar.
I still listen to the soundtrack occasionally and i still think oda is an outstanding mangaka with a great sense of humour.
Maybe that is why i am so disappointed that it didnt quite pull through until the end for me.

If i am perfectly honest: i would still read one piece and love the shit outta it if it was not always luffy who beats the mainboss but other strawhats got real times to shine. They do get times to shine, but they are always outshined by Luffy, and that bugs me. A lot. Because i dislike those escapist fatansies about one guy always pwning the big bad.

That is EXACTLY what i like about HxH with the mains more often than not being outclassed and then ACTUALLY LOSING due to being outclassed.

But that is a personal preference, it is nothing one piece does wrong. Teens and many others love their escapist fantasies and a lot of people would be very let down if suddenly OP arcs would end it anticlimax such as HxH arcs often do. It would be an objectively wrong move by Oda to do that. But it would be a move i would cheer him on for nonetheless <.<

I personally don't necessarily think people just like Luffy or other main characters because of "escapist fantasies" I think people just like a character for various reasons and therefore they forgive some of the bs that happens in regards to said character. Luffy does not honestly have that much bs with him imo anyways. I do agree that the main characters always being the ones to fight the final villain is tiresome at points,but like I said I think these series have more to them than their main characters. Certainly they are focused upon a great deal,too much even sometimes but it's not all there is either. I mean the reality is every main character is going to outshine the side characters,if you dislike the main character then your enjoyment will be mostly based off it's other qualities like comedy,the world and setting,and finally side characters. I personally accept it and enjoy the other aspects because imo they are really solid in the big three in general,particularly in One Piece. Plus most Shonen main characters are made fun of for being stupid Luffy included,and they do lose fights as well. I get what you are saying though. I have not completely caught up on HunterxHunter but since I just finished the Yorknew arc to gotta say I actually do not feel like it has had anticlimactic endings at all so far,but i will have to wait and see for the rest of the arcs.

 

[Kanmuru]

Hail the king!

I can't believe how much I miss Hunter, omg.. :c

 

[shionoro]

I personally don't necessarily think people just like Luffy or other main characters because of "escapist fantasies" I think people just like a character for various reasons and therefore they forgive some of the bs that happens in regards to said character. Luffy does not honestly have that much bs with him imo anyways. I do agree that the main characters always being the ones to fight the final villain is tiresome at points,but like I said I think these series have more to them than their main characters. Certainly they are focused upon a great deal,too much even sometimes but it's not all there is either. I mean the reality is every main character is going to outshine the side characters,if you dislike the main character then your enjoyment will be mostly based off it's other qualities like comedy,the world and setting,and finally side characters. I personally accept it and enjoy the other aspects because imo they are really solid in the big three in general,particularly in One Piece. Plus most Shonen main characters are made fun of for being stupid Luffy included,and they do lose fights as well. I get what you are saying though. I have not completely caught up on HunterxHunter but since I just finished the Yorknew arc to gotta say I actually do not feel like it has had anticlimactic endings at all so far,but i will have to wait and see for the rest of the arcs.

I really think that most fans of OP (or othen shonen) dont overlook traits of the maincharacter, but they like them.
Luffy didnt without reason poll #1 in every single OP popularity poll.
The mainchars are being mocked for thei stupidity, but they are proven right.
Like, there will be situations in which characters tell luffy he is stupid for doing this or that, but he ends up on top anyway and it is shown that his outcome is better than what other characters suggested.
And most people like that. And that is fine. It's just not for me. Even as a teen, i really could not relate to that.

And ya, of course a series has more than its maincharacters. But i still feel like the joy is sucked out for me when promising side characters get shooed away.
I had that problem in naruto. I really liked characters which were teased as being very relevant. I liked kakashi, sakura, rock lee, shikamaru, hinata and shino.
Now, most of these guys had their fights and stuff, but...It simply ended up not being about a rich cast of ninja kids which were all interesting but more about 2 ninja boys being cheered on by different other ninja kids from the sideline. Two ninja kids which weren't among my first picks for popularity.
Naruto wasnt even a mainchar i disliked. hell i even like him in boruto. It just gets lonely when you know that all the characters you might get invested into will, at best, have one or two chapters to shine while mostly not doing anything really relevant.

______________

Well HxH has a lot of anticlimax. The hunter exam ended with killuah killing someone an dbeing disqualified.
The heaven's arena arc ended with them not going to the top and gon not beating hisoka.
The yorkshin arc ended by kurapika not being able to kill chrollo and him being sealed.

Those are unusual outcomes, which i enjoyed.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 31, 2016 ---

Hail the king!

I can't believe how much I miss Hunter, omg.. :c

Hope that giant throne helps against back pain <:

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016 ---

Oh, come to think of it: I got INSANELY MUCH FREE TIME NOW!. YES. And do you know what that means?
It means that in 2,5 hours, the shops open, and i will get an opulent breakfast and read tokyo ghoul until i am too fat to move and will fall asleep.

 

[Aizen]

I really think that most fans of OP (or othen shonen) dont overlook traits of the maincharacter, but they like them.
Luffy didnt without reason poll #1 in every single OP popularity poll.
The mainchars are being mocked for thei stupidity, but they are proven right.
Like, there will be situations in which characters tell luffy he is stupid for doing this or that, but he ends up on top anyway and it is shown that his outcome is better than what other characters suggested.
And most people like that. And that is fine. It's just not for me. Even as a teen, i really could not relate to that.

And ya, of course a series has more than its maincharacters. But i still feel like the joy is sucked out for me when promising side characters get shooed away.
I had that problem in naruto. I really liked characters which were teased as being very relevant. I liked kakashi, sakura, rock lee, shikamaru, hinata and shino.
Now, most of these guys had their fights and stuff, but...It simply ended up not being about a rich cast of ninja kids which were all interesting but more about 2 ninja boys being cheered on by different other ninja kids from the sideline. Two ninja kids which weren't among my first picks for popularity.
Naruto wasnt even a mainchar i disliked. hell i even like him in boruto. It just gets lonely when you know that all the characters you might get invested into will, at best, have one or two chapters to shine while mostly not doing anything really relevant.

______________

Well HxH has a lot of anticlimax. The hunter exam ended with killuah killing someone an dbeing disqualified.
The heaven's arena arc ended with them not going to the top and gon not beating hisoka.
The yorkshin arc ended by kurapika not being able to kill chrollo and him being sealed.

Those are unusual outcomes, which i enjoyed.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 31, 2016 ---

Hope that giant throne helps against back pain <:

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016 ---

Oh, come to think of it: I got INSANELY MUCH FREE TIME NOW!. YES. And do you know what that means?
It means that in 2,5 hours, the shops open, and i will get an opulent breakfast and read tokyo ghoul until i am too fat to move and will fall asleep.

Yeah I don't really see those outcomes in Hunterxhunter as being anticlimactic,I just see them as different. Those arcs did what they did fine imo, it's not like all Naruto and One piece arcs resolve everything at the end of the arcs either. As for Luffy's popularity,honestly I just think that people tend to like main characters for whatever reason more than side characters,I just don't think "escapist fantasies" is not the term I would use for why people like them,it just kinda comes off as derogatory to me but perhaps I am not taking it the right way hahaha. Honestly though I don't really care why people do or don't like them anyways,it really just comes down to if you don't like the main character the other aspects of the show have to make up for it. Clearly they don't for you,but they do for me. I generally agree with your points though. I also agree that certain characters in the big three are not fully explored,but you could say that about every series honestly.

 

[uberfayt]

A lot of shonen lost my interested when i got older because i just cannot stand the 'idiot hero' trope except in dragon ball.

I felt like the smarter and more careful characters got punished and guys like naruto and luffy always got their way by 'determination'. That really put me off.
I am one of the people who actually have a hard time bearing with shonen.
I don#t like the geniusfighter trope either with all the nonsensial power ups which come plot conveniently.
Exspecially not in naruto, where in the first part naruto made a point by defeating neji that talent is not everything, just to be one of the strongest guys arround by having the kyuubi sealed within him.
Even as a teen, things like that bothered me. I know Gon is a natural genius too, but many hunters are, so that puts it into perspective.

I think i have the easiest time dealing with mains in a story which does not revolve arround him.

´There are stories however in which i find that the overpowered maincharacter is done right.
Berserk is one of those. Gutts is ridicoulusly powerful for a human, but it never seems like guts can just jump into the fray and get out by plot armor. He often has to pay a prize for his fights and never seems arrogant in the battles he chooses, but....well very very angry.

I am pretty sure that i would have dropped HxH instantly if, for example, gon woulda beaten hisoka in heaven's arena by sheer 'oh well i am determined to do it'.

I agree with you on most of what you've said, but not on the fact that there is an "idiot hero trend" in Dragon Ball. In the original manga, Goku as a kid was ignorant and naive, but then you watch as he grows up and becomes wiser and dependable (not only in strength but also in strategy sometimes). Yes, Goku as an adult was never an idiot (I'm not saying he was a genius either), he was always calm, laidback and nice, while retaining some of his naiveness. Of course we all know that he had some flaws, like not being a good father or even neglecting socializing with his friends, or forgiving his worst ennemies...But again I say it he was never stupid. It was only through fillers or fan made parodies where he was portrayed as an idiot goofball with crazy transformations, and now it became canon in the worst possible way (DBS).

Anyway my point is that I'm not fond of the idiot hero trend, and I fail to see how can such characters (naruto for instance) motivate or inspire audiences...

 

[YuYuMoonXHunter]

The interview is out !!!

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 31, 2016 ---

There's so many facts about it but I've just translated it some in English ( Cause the article has already translated in Vietnamese):
-Togashi usually named his characters mostly based on Japanese reality TV shows, he doesn't think it seriously, like Akira's case in Dragon Balls
-He also had a suggestion of creating characters with unique personalities, more than just good type-character.
-Togashi thought that giving powers or special abilities in both HxH and Naruto is totally tough, because readers are trying to expose it and blowing it up illogically.
-The reason why Togashi puts every characters in the Whale ship is to see what happened if **** about to go down. He also mentions Oda during the Marineford arc.
-In order to developing story arc, reading manga or novels is the most important, the more you read, the more idea you obtain even manga that you didn't like< - That's him when doing DC arc.
-Question: which one is better: story or drawing? -Togashi: story, because drawing skills can be better if you are a weekly mangaka (like Oda for example)
-There are too much interesting on Togashi is movies like "Aliens", "28 Days later", even Hayao Miyazaki (Ghibli) and Jojo's creator - Akari
-Togashi believed that Hisoka remained alive thanks to his Bungee Gum
-He planned to make another manga- which is a card-battle manga during Green Island, but the baseball thing isn't a part of his plan at first.
-He can be mocked by himself when drawing chapters, such as "You could have f*cking done better than this" - best suggestion to whoever wanna become a mangaka like him.
-All of the clothes from the 12th Zodiacs are designed by him and send to his assistant to draw
-YYH FACT: Hiei didn't suppose to be Yusuke's friend - that just a hint from Togashi's assistant. If it happened, Hiei couldn't have a Jangan eye. XD
----------------------------------
Multiple talk for him, I use bold for some important facts

 

[Spirit]

The interview is out !!!

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 31, 2016 ---

There's so many facts about it but I've just translated it some in English ( Cause the article has already translated in Vietnamese):
-Togashi usually named his characters mostly based on Japanese reality TV shows, he doesn't think it seriously, like Akira's case in Dragon Balls
-He also had a suggestion of creating characters with unique personalities, more than just good type-character.
-Togashi thought that giving powers or special abilities in both HxH and Naruto is totally tough, because readers are trying to expose it and blowing it up illogically.
-The reason why Togashi puts every characters in the Whale ship is to see what happened if **** about to go down. He also mentions Oda during the Marineford arc.
-In order to developing story arc, reading manga or novels is the most important, the more you read, the more idea you obtain even manga that you didn't like< - That's him when doing DC arc.
-Question: which one is better: story or drawing? -Togashi: story, because drawing skills can be better if you are a weekly mangaka (like Oda for example)
-There are too much interesting on Togashi is movies like "Aliens", "28 Days later", even Hayao Miyazaki (Ghibli) and Jojo's creator - Akari
-Togashi believed that Hisoka remained alive thanks to his Bungee Gum
-He planned to make another manga- which is a card-battle manga during Green Island, but the baseball thing isn't a part of his plan at first.
-He can be mocked by himself when drawing chapters, such as "You could have f*cking done better than this" - best suggestion to whoever wanna become a mangaka like him.
-All of the clothes from the 12th Zodiacs are designed by him and send to his assistant to draw
-YYH FACT: Hiei didn't suppose to be Yusuke's friend - that just a hint from Togashi's assistant. If it happened, Hiei couldn't have a Jangan eye. XD
----------------------------------
Multiple talk for him, I use bold for some important facts

Togashi is getting a lot of media coverage this year. First Ishida now, who I assume is Kishimoto?

 

[YuYuMoonXHunter]

Togashi is getting a lot of media coverage this year. First Ishida now, who I assume is Kishimoto?

Yeah, too much media promo XD