Fantasy Jellal vs Azuma

[grey matter]

Sure, but the manga itself is fairly inconsistent. For example, Erza got her ass rekt by Ikaruga, ended up oneshotting her.
Fukoro was similarly fucking up Gray, got oneshot.
Racer, fucked up Gray, but was getting fucked up Jellal, and yet.... Gray oneshotted Racer, and Jellal didn't oneshot Racer.
Eileen probably just isn't a particularly durable dragon. That, and Mashima likes to play loosely with his rules. Sometimes slayer advantage means everything, like with Mard and Eileen. Sometimes it's just a useful boost, like with Cherria and Dimaria.

I agree, it's just Mashima things, which was what I was saying lol

On bold part.
I would've considered that argument, if it didn't happen to Mard as well. The guy tanked blows from CSK in base with no issues, no sold LFD Natsu and twin dragons in base, pretty much no sold DF Natsu amp'd on POF. And yet got one shot by Gray using demon magic.
But I'm 100% sure Mard won't get one shot by another demon of his same tier.

It is super effecitve. Compared to everything else.

Oh, I believe dragons can one shot other dragons on the same level. Humans on the same tier can oneshot each other too, and even oneshot characters that are potentially stronger than them... So why not? I imagine that when fighting other dragons, most dragons will actually use magic to defend themselves. Against humans, they just face tank whatever gets thrown at them. That's probably how a lot of dragon slayers managed to get kills against dragons in the civil war.

Acno and Igneel had an extreme diff battle. They traded several physical blows, many of which I'm sure they didn't counter/defend well.

Humans on same tier can't one shot each other for the most part as well. Only exceptions like the typical Spriggans, who are high mp and hax with trash physical stats

But yes, I see where you're coming from. You're arguing that dragons simply consider humans too weak and don't put up their defences, hence get one shot? But there is a problem with that argument - that would be like arguing a child dragon one shots an adult dragon because the adult dragon didn't put up his defences. Assuming child dragon and human DS use the same dragon magic.

 

[Seven777]

I agree, it's just Mashima things, which was what I was saying lol

On bold part.
I would've considered that argument, if it didn't happen to Mard as well. The guy tanked blows from CSK in base with no issues, no sold LFD Natsu and twin dragons in base, pretty much no sold DF Natsu amp'd on POF. And yet got one shot by Gray using demon magic.
But I'm 100% sure Mard won't get one shot by another demon of his same tier.



Acno and Igneel had an extreme diff battle. They traded several physical blows, many of which I'm sure they didn't counter/defend well.

Humans on same tier can't one shot each other for the most part as well. Only exceptions like the typical Spriggans, who are high mp and hax with trash physical stats

But yes, I see where you're coming from. You're arguing that dragons simply consider humans too weak and don't put up their defences, hence get one shot? But there is a problem with that argument - that would be like arguing a child dragon one shots an adult dragon because the adult dragon didn't put up his defences. Assuming child dragon and human DS use the same dragon magic.

No demon has an attack on the level of Zeroth Longbow. It's not like it's just a regular attack for Gray, it's his finisher, it's what he used to oneshot Racer, except better. Same with Erza, Benizakura is the weapon she uses for pure offensive power, and it's empowered into another level by Wendy's DS magic, likely putting it on True Benizakura's tier from 100YQ, these aren't just normal attacks, it's the best they've got.
I don't think Silver would be able to oneshot Mard, he doesn't have an attack strong enough. I also don't think God Serena could oneshot Dragon Eileen, he doesn't have a finisher strong enough.

 

[Axiomus]

Acno and Igneel had an extreme diff battle. They traded several physical blows, many of which I'm sure they didn't counter/defend well.

Humans on same tier can't one shot each other for the most part as well. Only exceptions like the typical Spriggans, who are high mp and hax with trash physical stats

But yes, I see where you're coming from. You're arguing that dragons simply consider humans too weak and don't put up their defences, hence get one shot? But there is a problem with that argument - that would be like arguing a child dragon one shots an adult dragon because the adult dragon didn't put up his defences. Assuming child dragon and human DS use the same dragon magic.

I probably didn't explain it too well. I don't mean to say that every character on the same level can one-shot each other. But some can, and this happens on every level, not just with the Spriggans. Cobra and Racer are on the same level in terms of MP, but Cobra would oneshot Racer. This is simply because of how their magic affects their stats. I imagine there are plenty of dragons that are simply in each other's oneshot range.

As far as Igneel and Acnologia goes, they had to defend or dodge most of each other's atttacks. The one time they didn't, they ripped eachother apart. Igneel probably had to defend more against Acno than vice versa too, because Igneel doesn't have magic immunity. I don't believe they are in each other's oneshot range, but they couldnt afford to give eachother free bites either.

I dont have a reference for how strong a dragon child would be, but imo it's entirely possible for a weaker dragon to take out a stronger one.

Well the whole "evolve" thing is just a theory, it's likely the case that Mashima never thought about it. But if it is the case I'd say it's more likely that DS magic evolved to hurt dragons rather than their scales evolved to resist DS magic, it's just more logical for why DS magic is their weakness. Otherwise Dragon Scales would be more resistant to DS magic than anything else, unless DS magic is just naturally stronger than other magics, which it isn't.

Not necessarily, scales were why Eileen and the dragons Kagura was fighting were so hard to hurt. Atlas Flame has no scales, he's just too powerful for anyone to damage. I don't see why some can't be just tougher than others, like with humans. Like Atlas Flame having more of a Juvia body, and Motherglare having more of a Gajeel body.

Demons and gods may not have evolved, but the magic used to fight them likely did. There's also the possibility that Slayer magic in human hands is just better at exploiting the weakness than it is in the hands of the races they originate from, that's why it's slayer magic in their hands, and not just magic like it is for dragons and others.

As for needing to be stronger than a dragon to hurt them, I disagree. I think Dragons simply balance their stats more towards defense than most races. I think a character of equal power level would have as much trouble hurting a dragon, as Elfman had hurting Madmole. It'd be tough, but eventually, you'd make it through. I'd say Dragons would generally have the advantage in a head on fight with an equal, but the equal could likely still win under the right circumstances. Hax of course works fine.

Correct. The evolution is a theory for why the scales are so hard. The fact that the scales are hard, however, is not a theory. To me, it just makes sense that dragons had to develop harder defenses because they were constantly fighting each other with slayer magic. Overtime, since they were so accistomed to fighting each other, everything without slayer magic seemed weak in comparison. The scales wouldnt be more resistant to DS magic.

I believe Atlas Flame had scales. Like Juvia, his flame body is probably a result of him using magic. Aldoron probably doesn't have scales, but his wood is comparable to the scales of an Acno tier dragon.

I suppose the Elfman and Madmole explanation works, but in most cases I think the dragon would have already won if he landed a few good shots. Like August and Irene can oneshot each other imo, but if August didnt use DS, Irene's dragon form would give her a massive advantage.

 

[Seven777]

I probably didn't explain it too well. I don't mean to say that every character on the same level can one-shot each other. But some can, and this happens on every level, not just with the Spriggans. Cobra and Racer are on the same level in terms of MP, but Cobra would oneshot Racer. This is simply because of how their magic affects their stats. I imagine there are plenty of dragons that are simply in each other's oneshot range.

As far as Igneel and Acnologia goes, they had to defend or dodge most of each other's atttacks. The one time they didn't, they ripped eachother apart. Igneel probably had to defend more against Acno than vice versa too, because Igneel doesn't have magic immunity. I don't believe they are in each other's oneshot range, but they couldnt afford to give eachother free bites either.

I dont have a reference for how strong a dragon child would be, but imo it's entirely possible for a weaker dragon to take out a stronger one.



Correct. The evolution is a theory for why the scales are so hard. The fact that the scales are hard, however, is not a theory. To me, it just makes sense that dragons had to develop harder defenses because they were constantly fighting each other with slayer magic. Overtime, since they were so accistomed to fighting each other, everything without slayer magic seemed weak in comparison. The scales wouldnt be more resistant to DS magic.

I believe Atlas Flame had scales. Like Juvia, his flame body is probably a result of him using magic. Aldoron probably doesn't have scales, but his wood is comparable to the scales of an Acno tier dragon.

I suppose the Elfman and Madmole explanation works, but in most cases I think the dragon would have already won if he landed a few good shots. Like August and Irene can oneshot each other imo, but if August didnt use DS, Irene's dragon form would give her a massive advantage.

That would mean DS magic is stronger than other magics, if everything else seems weak in comparison, which it isn't.

Why would Atlas Flame have scales? His corpse is literally a big flame. I'd say like Aldaron, Skiadram, or the Rock Dragon, he simply has a body made of his element.

Sure, I'd give Eileen the win without DS advantage too. August would be able to put up a fight though, I mean even Natsu slamming Merc into the ground hurt him, August would be able to replicate that against Eileen. What dragons have in defense over other races, they lose in speed. Dragons are slow due to their size. Not talking flight speed, but agility, eg. Meteor Jellal vs Acno.

 

[Axiomus]

That would mean DS magic is stronger than other magics, if everything else seems weak in comparison, which it isn't.

Why would Atlas Flame have scales? His corpse is literally a big flame. I'd say like Aldaron, Skiadram, or the Rock Dragon, he simply has a body made of his element.

Sure, I'd give Eileen the win without DS advantage too. August would be able to put up a fight though, I mean even Natsu slamming Merc into the ground hurt him, August would be able to replicate that against Eileen. What dragons have in defense over other races, they lose in speed. Dragons are slow due to their size. Not talking flight speed, but agility, eg. Meteor Jellal vs Acno.

I dont see why that would be the case. It could simply be that DS magic is super effective against dragons. So if you have scales that are so hard that DS magic feels like taking a regular hit, it stands to reason that everything else would feel weak. I suppose you could say that DS magic is stronger than everything else, against dragons.

That's his memory. His actualy body had arms, legs, and a tail. I just assume it works like Juvia's water body. He has an actual physical body, and he uses magic to become flames. Otherwise, I can't imagine how his species reproduces.

Ignia Natsu slamming Mercphobia is a fair point, though I don't believe August can outmuscle Irene like that. In fact, I generally consider Irene to have a big advantage in physical strength.

 

[Seven777]

I dont see why that would be the case. It could simply be that DS magic is super effective against dragons. So if you have scales that are so hard that DS magic feels like taking a regular hit, it stands to reason that everything else would feel weak. I suppose you could say that DS magic is stronger than everything else, against dragons.

That's his memory. His actualy body had arms, legs, and a tail. I just assume it works like Juvia's water body. He has an actual physical body, and he uses magic to become flames. Otherwise, I can't imagine how his species reproduces.

Ignia Natsu slamming Mercphobia is a fair point, though I don't believe August can outmuscle Irene like that. In fact, I generally consider Irene to have a big advantage in physical strength.

Oh, I see what you mean.

His actual body molds as he wills, he has no bones like Zirconis, just the fire, because he is fire. I'd say he's more like Bloodman or Keyes than he is Juvia. As for reproduction, by shooting up sperm flames into each other? I didn't see a dong on Igneel either, and he's naked. Just saying.

So do I. But I think August has the raw force with his magic to toss Eileen into a mountain, much like Jellal pushing Acno, or Erza sinking him. The difference being August would be able to output much more force, and Eileen is much less durable.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

That's his memory. His actualy body had arms, legs, and a tail. I just assume it works like Juvia's water body. He has an actual physical body, and he uses magic to become flames. Otherwise, I can't imagine how his species reproduces.

Maybe he is asexual.