Fantasy Jellal vs Gray

[The President]

I'm really curious to know, why does it matter about the amount of abilities shown when all Natsu has been doing is still oneshotting??

There is really no difference between Jellal and Natsu.

Both of them have been oneshotting and neither of them has shown their full potential.

There is a massive difference.

Natsu hasn't shown many feats either as you paint, for your information.

You act like he has showed an entire new arsenal.

Literally, Natsu has been mostly using the SAME feat over and over.... and that is FDK Demolition Fist...

He used a couple roars from Pre-TS, but most of his other "oneshots" were either done by Demolition Fist or unnamed spells.

LMAO you must be joking. He showed a bunch of feats in his Introduction, Avatar Arc, a few against Ajeel, a lot against Jacob, some against the Black Carpet some more in their attempt at taking the guild back and a couple against Neinhart.

So where is that "fleshed out array of feats" that you keep talking about?

I genuinely cannot believe you are actually saying this:

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Those are just some of the named moves, its hardly the full scope of his feats as I'm not going to sit here and post every single panel of Natsu doing something. In all honesty my friend, this claim that Natsu and Jellal are at all the same in this regard is downright laughable. Jellal is more like Gildarts in this regard, I'd argue that he has even less then current Gildarts has.

Jellal was sweating, huffing, and puffing after he used Grand Chariot spell, please, don't tell me he could have showed an array of new feats.

He had just altered the landscape completely and while you see huffing and puffing, I see Jellal easing up on the tension that he had just guilt up. When you get absurdly angry (as he had been) you tend to release the built up stress like that. Quite frankly its not even debatable that that was casual because we know of at least 3 spells that he can use which are stronger (AB, Sema and Altairis, and thats just for offence, he has stuff like meteor as well).

If he had difficulty casting his Pre-TS spell, then it's safe to assume his MP is not that great.

Except he wasn't tired, and even if he had been it would have been from the landscape changing move. Its as if you are claiming that he has gotten worse in MP.

In this arc, the Spriggans are the standard level of power or caliber that all Top-Tier FT mages should be at.

Doesn't matter. You could fight a notable weaker opponents to also quantify your feats (depending on how much you struggle).

And you have yet to show an actual feat and not just throw around baseless hype. Jellal's hype shattered to pieces when base Natsu outmatched Enhanced Neinhart with two FD lvl punches while Jellal need an entire chapter to charge up one of his top tier spells to beat regular Neinhart.

GC isn't one of his top-tier spells. Its actually every casual and rarely does any damage.

 

[Nemispelled]

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Those are just some of the named moves, its hardly the full scope of his feats as I'm not going to sit here and post every single panel of Natsu doing something. In all honesty my friend, this claim that Natsu and Jellal are at all the same in this regard is downright laughable. Jellal is more like Gildarts in this regard, I'd argue that he has even less then current Gildarts has.

90% of those were unnamed attacks and the other 10% were repeated attacks.

The only new feat from Natsu is a more powerful DS roar and FDK Demolition Fist.


He didn't even come close to showing "a fleshed out new array of feats" as you claim.

Oneshotting fodders and blowing up rocks can hardly be considered "Spriggan-tier feats"


Natsu and Jellal pretty much showed similar feats because all they've been doing is oneshotting opponents.

Only difference is that Natsu pulled off his oneshots casually while Jellal was sweating, huffing, and puffing.

He had just altered the landscape completely and while you see huffing and puffing, I see Jellal easing up on the tension that he had just guilt up. When you get absurdly angry (as he had been) you tend to release the built up stress like that. Quite frankly its not even debatable that that was casual because we know of at least 3 spells that he can use which are stronger (AB, Sema and Altairis, and thats just for offence, he has stuff like meteor as well).



Except he wasn't tired, and even if he had been it would have been from the landscape changing move. Its as if you are claiming that he has gotten worse in MP.

It was not the tension... he was legitimately tired from casting Grand Chariot.

The sweat on his face and wide open mouth doesn't lie.

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Just compare Jellal's face with everybody else's.

GC clearly took a slight toll on his body.

I'm not saying his MP is getting worse...

But do you have proof of his MP getting significantly better?

I didn't think so.

GC isn't one of his top-tier spells. Its actually every casual and rarely does any damage.

Exactly. GC is a very casual spell and doesn't do a lot of damage. I agree.

And Jellal was tired just from casting that.

 

[Spirit]

90% of those were unnamed attacks and the other 10% were repeated attacks.

The only new feat from Natsu is a more powerful DS roar and FDK Demolition Fist.


He didn't even come close to showing "a fleshed out new array of feats" as you claim.

Oneshotting fodders and blowing up rocks can hardly be considered "Spriggan-tier feats"


Natsu and Jellal pretty much showed similar feats because all they've been doing is oneshotting opponents.

Only difference is that Natsu pulled off his oneshots casually while Jellal was sweating, huffing, and puffing.






It was not the tension... he was legitimately tired from casting Grand Chariot.

The sweat on his face and wide open mouth doesn't lie.

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Just compare Jellal's face with everybody else's.

GC clearly took a slight toll on his body.

I'm not saying his MP is getting worse...

But do you have proof of his MP getting significantly better?

I didn't think so.






Exactly. GC is a very casual spell and doesn't do a lot of damage. I agree.

And Jellal was tired just from casting that.

I don't really see how you can go by that though. Grand Chariot is a magic that taxes the physical strength and stamina. A lesser mage wouldn't even be able to take the pain or pressure that spell brings

 

[Nemispelled]

I don't really see how you can go by that though. Grand Chariot is a magic that taxes the physical strength and stamina. A lesser mage wouldn't even be able to take the pain or pressure that spell brings

The magic does not control the caster.

The caster controls the magic.

How much the spell taxes on your physical strength and stamina depends on how powerful of a mage you are.

In other words, it measure Jellal's MP just fine.

Natsu and Laxus' attacks also taxes their physical strength and stamina, right?


It's quite simple, Jellal has trouble casting a Pre-TS spell, Grand Chariot...

While Natsu uses FDK Demolition Fist (a new spell) like it is child's play.

I think there is a clear difference in MP there.

 

[Jko]

There is a massive difference.



LMAO you must be joking. He showed a bunch of feats in his Introduction, Avatar Arc, a few against Ajeel, a lot against Jacob, some against the Black Carpet some more in their attempt at taking the guild back and a couple against Neinhart.



I genuinely cannot believe you are actually saying this:

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Those are just some of the named moves, its hardly the full scope of his feats as I'm not going to sit here and post every single panel of Natsu doing something. In all honesty my friend, this claim that Natsu and Jellal are at all the same in this regard is downright laughable. Jellal is more like Gildarts in this regard, I'd argue that he has even less then current Gildarts has.



He had just altered the landscape completely and while you see huffing and puffing, I see Jellal easing up on the tension that he had just guilt up. When you get absurdly angry (as he had been) you tend to release the built up stress like that. Quite frankly its not even debatable that that was casual because we know of at least 3 spells that he can use which are stronger (AB, Sema and Altairis, and thats just for offence, he has stuff like meteor as well).



Except he wasn't tired, and even if he had been it would have been from the landscape changing move. Its as if you are claiming that he has gotten worse in MP.



Doesn't matter. You could fight a notable weaker opponents to also quantify your feats (depending on how much you struggle).



GC isn't one of his top-tier spells. Its actually every casual and rarely does any damage.

You're right it's his more mid-high tier level spells. Though it did take significant amount of MP out of him seeing as he was sweating and breathing heavily after. It also did take a considerable amount of charge up.

 

[Spirit]

The magic does not control the caster.

The caster controls the magic.

How much the spell taxes on your physical strength and stamina depends on how powerful of a mage you are.

In other words, it measure Jellal's MP just fine.

Natsu and Laxus' attacks also taxes their physical strength and stamina, right?


It's quite simple, Jellal has trouble casting a Pre-TS spell, Grand Chariot...

While Natsu uses FDK Demolition Fist (a new spell) like it is child's play.

I think there is a clear difference in MP there.

Not really. I don't see why you'd scale the spells power on the point in the series when they were used

 

[Nemispelled]

Not really. I don't see why you'd scale the spells power on the point in the series when they were used

I don't really get what you mean.

Grand Chariot was obviously a spell that Jellal mastered a long time ago.

Most of the characters who have mastered their spells can cast an improved version without too much difficulty.

This was shown by mages like Laxus, Natsu, Gray, and Gildartz... as well as many others.

It's a known fact that older spells tend not to be as powerful as newer spells... otherwise, why would people even bother learning new spells?

Jellal suffering from tiredness after casting a middle-tier spell like Grand Chariot just goes to show that his MP is considerably lower than somebody on Natsu's caliber.

Unless Jellal can show better feats, I have no choice but to go by what he showed.

 

[The President]

90% of those were unnamed attacks and the other 10% were repeated attacks.

Are you actually kidding me? Like, this is some next level stage of denial. I'll even name those spells in order by the name THAT THEY WERE CALLED BY NATSU.

Fire Dragons Claw.
Blaze Dragon King Mode (A Mode is still a feat).
Blaze Dragon Kings Demolition Fist (he has used it 2 other times, I only showed the one).
Blaze Dragon King Roar.
Fire Dragons Iron Fist (Not Demolition Fist).
Fire Dragons Roar (Not Blaze dragon KING roar).

Only one of those feats are unnamed, but that doesn't make it any less of a feat. I purposely did NOT include repeated attacks (namely FDK Demolition Fist) and unnamed attacks (except for one).

The only new feat from Natsu is a more powerful DS roar and FDK Demolition Fist.

Every Post-TS feat is a new feat because they are all vastly improved. Jellal has TWO. Thats multiple times less then just the named moves that Natsu has used and not even including duplicates. If we talk in terms of named moves then Jellal literally only has one.

He didn't even come close to showing "a fleshed out new array of feats" as you claim.

I'm trying not to be rude here, I really am but you are making it hard for me.

Oneshotting fodders and blowing up rocks can hardly be considered "Spriggan-tier feats"

A casual attack from Natsu doesn't have to be on the level of a spriggan level trump card. Everything to do with FDK (his mode, roar and fist) are Spriggan tiered attacks, and when I say spriggan tiered attacks I mean their trump cards.

Natsu and Jellal pretty much showed similar feats because all they've been doing is oneshotting opponents.

They pretty much haven't. This isn't even debatable. You are either downright ignoring Natsus feats, do not want to admit that you are wrong or don't know what a feat is. A feat is pretty much anything that a character does in battle and Natsu has done a shit ton at this point, so again, the very notion that Jellal and Natsu are even remotely comparable in what they have shown is laughable. The main reason why people are even hating on Natsu so much in the first place is because he has FOUGHT (not necessarily defeated) nearly every single Spriggan, and feats stem from fighting. Current Jellal doesn't even have a proper durability/endurance feat because he forgot how to swim, nor is his speed feat quantifiable because he didn't end up dodging the attack. Nor has he showed any display of physical strength. Nor has he used any magic beyond JUST ONE spell. The only quantifiable thing that Jellal has is his MP showing, which is spriggan level (given that he completely altered the location, akin to what spriggans do). Natsu has filled up all those criteria for feats in spades.

It was not the tension... he was legitimately tired from casting Grand Chariot.

The sweat on his face and wide open mouth doesn't lie.

Just compare Jellal's face with everybody else's.

Thats a definitive statement, you are going to have to prove that it was him tired and not letting off steam.

Jellal is the only one that was visibly angry at Neinhart to begin with. I see no reason why GC would take a toll on his body (as you say) when it hasn't before the many times he has used it (unless his MP got worse lol) so I have no reason to believe that it made him tired. Heck, Sema didn't make him tired pre-ts and that was high top-tier spell. Either the location changing move is what done it or much more likely its Jellal loosing the immense amount of steam that he had built up.

You're right it's his more mid-high tier level spells. Though it did take significant amount of MP out of him seeing as he was sweating and breathing heavily after. It also did take a considerable amount of charge up.

Nope. Altairis, Sema and Abyss Break are laughably stronger then GC. In fact, GC rarely does any damage (it did a little to Natsu in TOH but nothing to OS and Jura). Sema and Abyss Break are his high-tier spells. Altairis would be a mid-tier spell of his (he puts more effort into it then normal). GC is the equivalent using a punch from Jellal (who doesn't use physical stats apart from speed, though that doesn't stop him from being good in them). Those are just the offensive spells that he has shown. Things like meteor are vastly above GC as far as efficiency goes.

 

[Jko]

Are you actually kidding me? Like, this is some next level stage of denial. I'll even name those spells in order by the name THAT THEY WERE CALLED BY NATSU.

Fire Dragons Claw.
Blaze Dragon King Mode (A Mode is still a feat).
Blaze Dragon Kings Demolition Fist (he has used it 2 other times, I only showed the one).
Blaze Dragon King Roar.
Fire Dragons Iron Fist (Not Demolition Fist).
Fire Dragons Roar (Not Blaze dragon KING roar).

Only one of those feats are unnamed, but that doesn't make it any less of a feat. I purposely did NOT include repeated attacks (namely FDK Demolition Fist) and unnamed attacks (except for one).



Every Post-TS feat is a new feat because they are all vastly improved. Jellal has TWO. Thats multiple times less then just the named moves that Natsu has used and not even including duplicates. If we talk in terms of named moves then Jellal literally only has one.



I'm trying not to be rude here, I really am but you are making it hard for me.



A casual attack from Natsu doesn't have to be on the level of a spriggan level trump card. Everything to do with FDK (his mode, roar and fist) are Spriggan tiered attacks, and when I say spriggan tiered attacks I mean their trump cards.



They pretty much haven't. This isn't even debatable. You are either downright ignoring Natsus feats, do not want to admit that you are wrong or don't know what a feat is. A feat is pretty much anything that a character does in battle and Natsu has done a shit ton at this point, so again, the very notion that Jellal and Natsu are even remotely comparable in what they have shown is laughable. The main reason why people are even hating on Natsu so much in the first place is because he has FOUGHT (not necessarily defeated) nearly every single Spriggan, and feats stem from fighting. Current Jellal doesn't even have a proper durability/endurance feat because he forgot how to swim, nor is his speed feat quantifiable because he didn't end up dodging the attack. Nor has he showed any display of physical strength. Nor has he used any magic beyond JUST ONE spell. The only quantifiable thing that Jellal has is his MP showing, which is spriggan level (given that he completely altered the location, akin to what spriggans do). Natsu has filled up all those criteria for feats in spades.



Thats a definitive statement, you are going to have to prove that it was him tired and not letting off steam.

Jellal is the only one that was visibly angry at Neinhart to begin with. I see no reason why GC would take a toll on his body (as you say) when it hasn't before the many times he has used it (unless his MP got worse lol) so I have no reason to believe that it made him tired. Heck, Sema didn't make him tired pre-ts and that was high top-tier spell. Either the location changing move is what done it or much more likely its Jellal loosing the immense amount of steam that he had built up.



Nope. Altairis, Sema and Abyss Break are laughably stronger then GC. In fact, GC rarely does any damage (it did a little to Natsu in TOH but nothing to OS and Jura). Sema and Abyss Break are his high-tier spells. Altairis would be a mid-tier spell of his (he puts more effort into it then normal). GC is the equivalent using a punch from Jellal (who doesn't use physical stats apart from speed, though that doesn't stop him from being good in them). Those are just the offensive spells that he has shown. Things like meteor are vastly above GC as far as efficiency goes.

It made him sweat. That spell is mid-high tier now. It also took charge up too.

GC does way more damage than punch. Racer no sold Jellal's punches like chump. Also meteor is nowhere near GC in destructive capabilities. His meteor couldn't even do significant damage to OS lol.

GC is one of Jellal's most powerful spells now as it takes a lot out of him.

 

[Brandish μ]

GC would be Jellal's 4th strongest offensive spell imo.

Sema
Altairis/Abyss Break
GC

If you want to compare to Natsu, GC is like FD Iron Fist. It's probably Jellal's most used spell that packs power. Altairis is a step up, and Sema is a step up again. Idk where AB falls, but I don't think it's on the level of Sema, but it might be above Altairis.

 

[Seven777]

I'd say Grand Chariot would be Jellal's equivalent to a Dragon Slayer's roar, quite commonly used, decent damage, definitely outclasses Meteor though, Natsu tanked hits from Meteor left and right taking barely any damage, while Grand Chariot floored him.
I dont see why Altaris should be ranked above Grand Chariot, it only killed Simon.
Abyss Break is featless, only thing impressive about it is its supposedly good AoE.
Sema is Jellal's best.
Jellal was definitely tired out after using Grand Chariot, but i attribute that to that whole "starry sky" thing he did, i would assume that costs MP and enhanced Grand Chariot beyond normal.

 

[The President]

It made him sweat. That spell is mid-high tier now. It also took charge up too.

Prove that GC made him sweat, and it wasn't him letting off steam.

GC does way more damage than punch. Racer no sold Jellal's punches like chump. Also meteor is nowhere near GC in destructive capabilities. His meteor couldn't even do significant damage to OS lol.

Ummm no.

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Thats not no-selling a punch like a chump as you put it. GCs damage on the other hand was superficial, the OSs were still standing. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that GC is weaker then a punch from Jellal (w/meteors extra momentum maybe though) but it is to Jellal what a punch is to someone like Natsu (a brawler).

GC is one of Jellal's most powerful spells now as it takes a lot out of him.

No its not. An attack that was inferior before isn't just going to become stronger then the attack it was inferior too. GC is still his weakest spell, it got more powerful of course, but his low-tier warning fire-type attack nevertheless.

I'd say Grand Chariot would be Jellal's equivalent to a Dragon Slayer's roar, quite commonly used, decent damage, definitely outclasses Meteor though, Natsu tanked hits from Meteor left and right taking barely any damage, while Grand Chariot floored him.

Na, for some DS a roar is their strongest attack (Gajeel and Wendy for example). You cannot really compare meteor and GC in regards to damage because meteor by itself doesn't do any damage. As far as efficiency goes though, meteor is definitely > GC. Jellal becomes of the fastest characters in the series with it, and that was Pre-TS. GC is like a warning shot, it gives you a small taste of Jellals strength but is normally not strong enough to KO you, if you continue fighting however him he brings out the big guns (Altairis, Sema, Abyss Break and whatever else he might have now).

I dont see why Altaris should be ranked above Grand Chariot, it only killed Simon.

Because it was a fuck it, I'm using this spell, after he had used GC mind you. Its pretty much factually above GC. He used GC casually and when Natsu pissed him off he threatened him with Altairis, even Erza found the need to step in the way (And Jellal claimed they would both die) and Simon found the need to throw his life away so that it wouldn't land on Erza.

Abyss Break is featless, only thing impressive about it is its supposedly good AoE.

No it has a lot of hype going for it. Its stronger then Jupiter (which alone puts it above GC) and was hyped to have been capable of taking down DF Natsu at TOH had it not been for the injury Jellal had sustained from Erza.

Jellal was definitely tired out after using Grand Chariot, but i attribute that to that whole "starry sky" thing he did, i would assume that costs MP and enhanced Grand Chariot beyond normal.

Yeah I really don't know about tired. Given his bloodlust that just looked like he let off steam, it was only a GC. I agree though that the location changer likely increases the effectiveness of heavenly body magic. Neinhart has scrub durability, but GC has always been relatively weak.

 

[Seven777]

Na, for some DS a roar is their strongest attack (Gajeel and Wendy for example). You cannot really compare meteor and GC in regards to damage because meteor by itself doesn't do any damage. As far as efficiency goes though, meteor is definitely > GC. Jellal becomes of the fastest characters in the series with it, and that was Pre-TS. GC is like a warning shot, it gives you a small taste of Jellals strength but is normally not strong enough to KO you, if you continue fighting however him he brings out the big guns (Altairis, Sema, Abyss Break and whatever else he might have now).

Nah, Gajeel and Wendy have secret techniques like Natsu does(Skydrill, God Sword), their roars are mid tier, just like Grand Chariot.
GC is a warning shot? Small taste? Lets not over-exaggerate here, Jellal thought Grand Chariot would have killed Natsu.

Because it was a fuck it, I'm using this spell, after he had used GC mind you. Its pretty much factually above GC. He used GC casually and when Natsu pissed him off he threatened him with Altairis, even Erza found the need to step in the way (And Jellal claimed they would both die) and Simon found the need to throw his life away so that it wouldn't land on Erza.

Meh, he intended to kill Natsu with Grand Chariot too.
His claim about them both dying was proven wrong when Simon was the only one who died.

No it has a lot of hype going for it. Its stronger then Jupiter (which alone puts it above GC) and was hyped to have been capable of taking down DF Natsu at TOH had it not been for the injury Jellal had sustained from Erza.

Phantom's Abyss Break was stronger than Jupiter, the magic circle Jellal formed was considerably smaller.
Take down DF Natsu? I seriously doubt it, Natsu no sold Genesis Zero, Zero's strongest attack, and Zero was a wizard who could actually put up a decent fight against DF Natsu, the strongest attack of Jellal, a guy who was comparatively getting utterly stomped by DF Natsu, probably isnt gonna do much.

Yeah I really don't know about tired. Given his bloodlust that just looked like he let off steam, it was only a GC. I agree though that the location changer likely increases the effectiveness of heavenly body magic. Neinhart has scrub durability, but GC has always been relatively weak.

He was sweating and panting, i thought it was pretty clear. I dont see any reason(other than him being tired) why he would start sweating and panting after he had defeated Neinhart, is he supposed to be even angrier now that he's won? Cause he wasnt sweating and panting when he was staring Neinhart down before GC

 

[Jko]

Prove that GC made him sweat, and it wasn't him letting off steam.



Ummm no.

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Thats not no-selling a punch like a chump as you put it. GCs damage on the other hand was superficial, the OSs were still standing. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that GC is weaker then a punch from Jellal (w/meteors extra momentum maybe though) but it is to Jellal what a punch is to someone like Natsu (a brawler).



No its not. An attack that was inferior before isn't just going to become stronger then the attack it was inferior too. GC is still his weakest spell, it got more powerful of course, but his low-tier warning fire-type attack nevertheless.



Na, for some DS a roar is their strongest attack (Gajeel and Wendy for example). You cannot really compare meteor and GC in regards to damage because meteor by itself doesn't do any damage. As far as efficiency goes though, meteor is definitely > GC. Jellal becomes of the fastest characters in the series with it, and that was Pre-TS. GC is like a warning shot, it gives you a small taste of Jellals strength but is normally not strong enough to KO you, if you continue fighting however him he brings out the big guns (Altairis, Sema, Abyss Break and whatever else he might have now).



Because it was a fuck it, I'm using this spell, after he had used GC mind you. Its pretty much factually above GC. He used GC casually and when Natsu pissed him off he threatened him with Altairis, even Erza found the need to step in the way (And Jellal claimed they would both die) and Simon found the need to throw his life away so that it wouldn't land on Erza.



No it has a lot of hype going for it. Its stronger then Jupiter (which alone puts it above GC) and was hyped to have been capable of taking down DF Natsu at TOH had it not been for the injury Jellal had sustained from Erza.



Yeah I really don't know about tired. Given his bloodlust that just looked like he let off steam, it was only a GC. I agree though that the location changer likely increases the effectiveness of heavenly body magic. Neinhart has scrub durability, but GC has always been relatively weak.

GC isn't a heat spell so how the heck was it steam on his face?

Huffing and Sweating from the after affect of GC.

 

[Nemispelled]

Are you actually kidding me? Like, this is some next level stage of denial. I'll even name those spells in order by the name THAT THEY WERE CALLED BY NATSU.

Fire Dragons Claw.
Blaze Dragon King Mode (A Mode is still a feat).
Blaze Dragon Kings Demolition Fist (he has used it 2 other times, I only showed the one).
Blaze Dragon King Roar.
Fire Dragons Iron Fist (Not Demolition Fist).
Fire Dragons Roar (Not Blaze dragon KING roar).

Only one of those feats are unnamed, but that doesn't make it any less of a feat. I purposely did NOT include repeated attacks (namely FDK Demolition Fist) and unnamed attacks (except for one).

Read my damn post. I was only talking about new feats. Why the hell do I care about Natsu's old feats?

Like I said, the only 2 new feats he showed was FDK Demolition Fist and a more powerful roar.

I'm only measuring the power of feats Natsu used against a Spriggan.

The rest are irrelevant because they only oneshotted fodders and rocks.

They tell me nothing about power level because crushing rocks and fodders doesn't necessarily mean anything to a Spriggan.

Every Post-TS feat is a new feat because they are all vastly improved. Jellal has TWO. Thats multiple times less then just the named moves that Natsu has used and not even including duplicates. If we talk in terms of named moves then Jellal literally only has one.

You really don't seem to get it, do you?

For the sake of the Jellal vs. Gray match:

I will only take into account the feats that Natsu SHOWED AGAINST A SPRIGGAN.

What don't you understand???

I'm not talking about Natsu's feats against fodders and rocks...

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The ONLY feats that Natsu used against Spriggans are:

- FDK Demolition Fist (Repeated several times)

- A more powerful DS roar (Against people like Historia God Serena and Invel)

- Unnamed attacks (He used this to defeat Enhanced Neinhart)

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That's how Natsu oneshotted all of his Spriggan opponents casually... unlike Jellal.

You can't judge the power off of fodders and rocks because they ARE fodders and rocks...

They mean absolutely nothing to me.

They pretty much haven't. This isn't even debatable. You are either downright ignoring Natsus feats, do not want to admit that you are wrong or don't know what a feat is. A feat is pretty much anything that a character does in battle and Natsu has done a shit ton at this point, so again, the very notion that Jellal and Natsu are even remotely comparable in what they have shown is laughable. The main reason why people are even hating on Natsu so much in the first place is because he has FOUGHT (not necessarily defeated) nearly every single Spriggan, and feats stem from fighting. Current Jellal doesn't even have a proper durability/endurance feat because he forgot how to swim, nor is his speed feat quantifiable because he didn't end up dodging the attack. Nor has he showed any display of physical strength. Nor has he used any magic beyond JUST ONE spell. The only quantifiable thing that Jellal has is his MP showing, which is spriggan level (given that he completely altered the location, akin to what spriggans do). Natsu has filled up all those criteria for feats in spades.

LISTEN.. The only feats that I am using...

Are feats that Natsu USED against a Spriggan.


I'm not following the way you power rank your battles, because you are clearly using faulted logic.

I don't care to use feats against fodders because they don't mean shit in a high-level tiered match up like Gray vs. Jellal.

Thats a definitive statement, you are going to have to prove that it was him tired and not letting off steam.

Jellal is the only one that was visibly angry at Neinhart to begin with. I see no reason why GC would take a toll on his body (as you say) when it hasn't before the many times he has used it (unless his MP got worse lol) so I have no reason to believe that it made him tired. Heck, Sema didn't make him tired pre-ts and that was high top-tier spell. Either the location changing move is what done it or much more likely its Jellal loosing the immense amount of steam that he had built up.

That's not a definitive statement and I do not have to prove that he was tired.

The pages did that for me. They proved he suffered slight exhaustion after he casted the spell.

If you can't read between the lines, that ain't my problem.

The community can judge for themselves, but it's pretty damn obvious to me that Jellal DID NOT cast GC casually. Please...

Nope. Altairis, Sema and Abyss Break are laughably stronger then GC. In fact, GC rarely does any damage (it did a little to Natsu in TOH but nothing to OS and Jura). Sema and Abyss Break are his high-tier spells. Altairis would be a mid-tier spell of his (he puts more effort into it then normal). GC is the equivalent using a punch from Jellal (who doesn't use physical stats apart from speed, though that doesn't stop him from being good in them). Those are just the offensive spells that he has shown. Things like meteor are vastly above GC as far as efficiency goes.

What the fuck is this? Did you read my post or what?

I never said anything about GC being a strong attack... it is a mid-tier spell.

And Jellal was tired from casting a mid-tier spell.

So you can save yourself the trouble from saying that "Jellal has more potential" because clearly he doesn't if he couldn't cast GC without breaking a sweat.


Jellal being tired after casting GC proves 2 things:

1.) His MP =/= Natsu's MP

2.) He does not have a large margin for potential.

 

[Seven777]

I dont see how anyone could argue Jellal is Natsu tier based on feats, hype maybe, a big maybe, but not feats.
Natsu oneshotted a stronger version of Neinhart with a nameless fire punch, didnt even need to go FDK mode like he did with Jacob, just base Natsu with the same old fire punch that Azir laughed off, if Jellal was on Natsu's level he would have one shotted Neinhart with an attack like this

Spoiler

not a named attack, there is a clear difference in effort here.

 

[Son Goku]

Jellal mid-diff.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Going by Feats. Gray Destroys Jellal with same ease as Invel. But with Acno Hype he no diff Gray.

 

[LaGOAT]

Jellal high diff

 

[Ramen]

@Ebony Maw let's bring this back

Jellal high diff