Discussion Kaido Thread

[Zehahaha]

It wouldn't matter when the concept of Yonko became a thing, they'd all have been opposing each other, forming factions, having bases, etc. I don't think it changes anything personally not that I've thought deeply about it.

Well certainly Kaido/BM/WB are old timers like Roger (maybe Kaido slightly younger), but Oda said something clearly, KAIDO BEEN CAPTURED BY YONKO, he emphasized that, so this leads me at least to believe this didn't happen at the beginning of his wonderful pirate career

 

[Eigengrau]

It wouldn't matter when the concept of Yonko became a thing, they'd all have been opposing each other, forming factions, having bases, etc. I don't think it changes anything personally not that I've thought deeply about it.

I think it matters. Well, I don't know, maybe not, but I think of stuff like:

- was Roger the first Pirate King? Or were there others before him?

- could he be considered a Pirate King, despite the existence of those 4 major and powerful characters? Let's not forget, after all Luffy said he wanted to beat all 4. So what if they "need" to stop being Yonko before one can really be considered PK? Or do they just take a beating and give Luffy their badge "blessing"?

- was it Roger's death that triggered the "conquering" of the New World, that later became ruled by the 4 Yonko?

See, that's the kind of stuff that perplexes me. Maybe the Yonko are really just the best contenders for Pirate King, who knows. But I think it would be very interesting to know. Hell, I'm not even sure if the Yonko thing wasn't some sort of truce/agreement between all parties, or if it's just something that the Marines "assumed".

Or maybe this is kinda like Bleach's 11th Division; if you kill the captain (in this case, Yonko) you get that title for yourself.
That's what Teach did, after all, so maybe Whitebeard, Shanks, Big Mom and Kaidou all had to do the same thing before IF there were others before them.

I think it would be amazing to know this, because being the first Yonkos and becoming a Yonko after killing/beating other Yonkos are very different things, and could put them in an entirely different level.

Well certainly Kaido/BM/WB are old timers like Roger (maybe Kaido slightly younger), but Oda said something clearly, KAIDO BEEN CAPTURED BY YONKO, he emphasized that, so this leads me at least to believe this didn't happen at the beginning of his wonderful pirate career

Wow, I totally missed that :O!
Thanks!

 

[Zehahaha]

Also considering Kaido's behavior and personality, he seems fucking random... Dude is all alone without his crew, who knows he may have challenged the Yonko solo because he felt bored, I mean the man sounds like a crazy bastard

 

[Eigengrau]

Also considering Kaido's behavior and personality, he seems fucking random... Dude is all alone without his crew, who knows he may have challenged the Yonko solo because he felt bored, I mean the man sounds like a crazy bastard

Yeah definitely, but I'm loving it so far, and can't wait to see what the dynamic is like between Kaidou and his crew!
Maybe they're always trying to prevent him from trying/getting hurt, or maybe they just know that nothing bad can happen to him, which is why they stick with him. At first I thought it was going to be the introduction to the mysterious 7th Shichibukai, and I figured it could be someone who's going after all the Supernovas/Pirate alliances, but this was much better.

I really like the idea of having a strong guy like him that, apparently, has run out of f*cks to give, and considering the "wave" that's coming... Boy, can't wait to see Kaido and the others doing whatever they feel like!

 

[Australopithecus]

His long whisker-like mustache and scale tattoo are huge hints that he could have eaten a dragon DF. However, I dont think this has to do with how strong he is. We all know that when DF users are captured and executed, they are kept in kairoseki chains at all times. If in fact his toughness is because of his DF, then the kairoseki chains would have negated them and he would have died at the time.

Him wanting to commit suicide and it becoming a "hobby" is probably a way for him to test the limits of his own strength. So, drowning himself would be something he knows he would die of (if he wasnt an underwater breathing dragon).

Hi Karam,

When Luffy was at the bottom of Arlong Park’s swimming pool with his feet manacled by a rock, his body didn’t whatsoever lose its stretching ability, but was merely incapacitated by water.

When Momo (in his Dragon form) and Brook were swept along by that deluge of water from the ‘eruption rain’, Momo was incapacitated by water but did NOT lose his Dragon form.

Therefore, I conclude, that since ‘Sea Stone’ holds the same incapacitating power as water, Kaido’s dragon shape will remain intact even while being manacled by Sea Stone.

 

[kkck]

Hi Karam,

When Luffy was at the bottom of Arlong Park’s swimming pool with his feet manacled by a rock, his body didn’t whatsoever lose its stretching ability, but was merely incapacitated by water.

When Momo (in his Dragon form) and Brook were swept along by that deluge of water from the ‘eruption rain’, Momo was incapacitated by water but did NOT lose his Dragon form.

Therefore, I conclude, that since ‘Sea Stone’ holds the same incapacitating power as water, Kaido’s dragon shape will remain intact even while being manacled by Sea Stone.

I doubt kairoseku would work like this though. Kairoseki is supposed to be an effective countermeasure to fruit abilities because to begin with it negates abilities. If kairoseki worked exactly like that then it wouldn't be effective against people like luffy or basically any other logia.

 

[Copy Panda]

considering they're the emperors, wouldn't they be able to find Raftel though? I mean, the condition to become PK would be finding the One Piece right?

 

[Fox666]

Given Kaido's epithet, which can also mean "all the beasts" or something along that line, I am expecting a chimera Zoan or something like that.

I doubt kairoseku would work like this though. Kairoseki is supposed to be an effective countermeasure to fruit abilities because to begin with it negates abilities. If kairoseki worked exactly like that then it wouldn't be effective against people like luffy or basically any other logia.

Sea stone only drains the forces of a user, not the Devil Fruit ability. And it's effective against Logias because a user cannot use any power consciously.

 

[Australopithecus]

I doubt kairoseku would work like this though. Kairoseki is supposed to be an effective countermeasure to fruit abilities because to begin with it negates abilities. If kairoseki worked exactly like that then it wouldn't be effective against people like luffy or basically any other logia.

Back at Marineford, when Smoker momentarily stopped by his Sea-Stone jitte Luffy’s advance toward Ace, he thrust his jitte into Luffy’s trachea(windpipe) and held him against the ground while putting all his body weight on his jitte, which was directly on top of Luffy’s trachea. If Sea Stone had been truly negating people’s abilities, Luffy’s trachea would have been crushed.

Back at Arabasta, when the Straw Hats were incarcerated by crocodile, Smoker said to think of ‘Sea Stone’ as ‘sea’ in solidified form.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

I mean the man sounds like a crazy bastard

LOL! This was hilarious.

 

[Holt]

I think it matters. Well, I don't know, maybe not, but I think of stuff like:

- was Roger the first Pirate King? Or were there others before him?

- could he be considered a Pirate King, despite the existence of those 4 major and powerful characters? Let's not forget, after all Luffy said he wanted to beat all 4. So what if they "need" to stop being Yonko before one can really be considered PK? Or do they just take a beating and give Luffy their badge "blessing"?

- was it Roger's death that triggered the "conquering" of the New World, that later became ruled by the 4 Yonko?

See, that's the kind of stuff that perplexes me. Maybe the Yonko are really just the best contenders for Pirate King, who knows. But I think it would be very interesting to know. Hell, I'm not even sure if the Yonko thing wasn't some sort of truce/agreement between all parties, or if it's just something that the Marines "assumed".

Or maybe this is kinda like Bleach's 11th Division; if you kill the captain (in this case, Yonko) you get that title for yourself.
That's what Teach did, after all, so maybe Whitebeard, Shanks, Big Mom and Kaidou all had to do the same thing before IF there were others before them.

I think it would be amazing to know this, because being the first Yonkos and becoming a Yonko after killing/beating other Yonkos are very different things, and could put them in an entirely different level.

I think it's been said he was the first. The 'Pirate King' wasn't even an official thing until Roger and even then, it was more of a nickname or so at first due to what he achieved and his power.

The yonko probably weren't a thing back then. The yonko are called so because they are the most notorious and powerful pirates. That wouldn't be accurate if Roger was the PK and possibly the most powerful person. The yonko are also unable to advance because of the threats of the others. Odds are, the yonko tried to reproduce his feats after his death and attain the PK name and in the process, conquered the NW which lead marines and other pirates to acknowledge them as the yonko. There can't really be a PK and still be yonko (individuals considered to be the most powerful and influential). The yonko thing probably would have to be negated for a PK to be acknowledged. Still, if they are alive, they would retain a certain level of fame and influence regardless.

I doubt kairoseku would work like this though. Kairoseki is supposed to be an effective countermeasure to fruit abilities because to begin with it negates abilities. If kairoseki worked exactly like that then it wouldn't be effective against people like luffy or basically any other logia.

Well sea stone like smoker puts it, is basically a solid form of the sea and it gives off the same wavelength. We already know that the sea doesn't actually negate abilities, it just robs DF user of the energy to consciously control their power. Seastone does the same thing. We've seen Law swap Kairoseki with room and at marineford, Mr. 3's wax worked on Ace's handcuffs.

considering they're the emperors, wouldn't they be able to find Raftel though? I mean, the condition to become PK would be finding the One Piece right?

They might have been able to but the existence of 4 yonko makes it impossible. None of them can move forward because the others would interfere.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I think the terms are really insignificant.

Just because there possibly wasn't a Pirate-king title doesn't mean there wasn't a Pirate seeking to conquer the New World; Roger only got branded as Pirate King for being the first or only to (apparently) conquer the New World. What counts is the feat and the title just serves to be the definition the feat.

The same is with Yonko; title or not, there were powerful pirate everywhere looking to commandeer great fleets and own numerous islands to mark as their territory. There title is not what counts, it's the feat; again, the title only serves to be a definition of the feat.

Perhaps, there were more contenders back then and due to their being fairly equal, there wasn't a need for such titles to distinguish between pirates. However, a huge gap in power began to creep in and only few people could contend with these powers; these individuals are called Yonko. The goal is always there title or not, but a title gives the feat a definition.

I think these are just definitions and nothing more; even if the terms didn't exist then, these feats would still be goals or there'd be semblances of it in place.

 

[Holt]

Not sure what you're saying. Yes there were pirates seeking to conquer the new world, heck there was even shiki who wanted to rule the whole world apparently but only Roger managed that feat. It was also explicitly stated that WB was the only one who could challenge him. The others weren't up to par. The title goes hand in hand with the feat. I mentioned earlier that the yonko are named thus because they are the most notorious and powerful pirates. Basically, the marines and other pirates wouldn't have branded a set of Individuals the yonko when there was even someone greater roaming the seas or perhaps theses pirates already had their influence but it just wasn't enough for them to be officially recognized. Imo, the yonko (what it stands for) isn't something that would have been in Roger's time or at least not in the way it is now. Perhaps they were called Yonko or something but the term wouldn't stand as those ruling the seas when there's a pirate king.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't see how it would change anything. Roger wasn't into claiming territories and just wanted to freely roam the seas it seems; just like Luffy, he only possessed 1 crew.

Shiki possessed the greatest Pirate Armada in his time so he probably owned territories and was 1 of the Yonko of that time or someone of similar status.

Roger didn't seemingly liberate any countries or claim territory; he went past Fishman Island, heard a sea-king but didn't seem to do anything other than seemingly pass it by to get into the New World.

King Neptune also didn't mention Roger, but he spoke of Whitebeard in regards to Fishman island. I doubt Roger did much in liberating or claiming territory.

Roger seemingly just opposed all the Yonko (or main forces) and conquered them all. Even Chinjao makes a remark to Luffy if he can defeat Yonko and Admirals to surpass Roger and that also implies things were the same back then.

I really don't think the dynamics changed, maybe they were stronger than this generation are, but I doubt much was different. Not seen anything substantial to suggest so, but I'm open to evidence.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

Because we DEFINITELY need a kaido thread

thanks for the pic @ladylola sorry for being lazy

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------

supporting the chimera zoan theory, thumbs up to whoever said it .

 

[jackthai]

Luffy will be PK and one of the strongest if not the strongest individual in the world and look at how many times he was beaten and captured until now^^

And that's why I keep saying he looks a lot like Luffy, in Impel Down Luffy was heavily poisoned by Maggelan, fierced a few times (Crocodile, Luccy), drown other dozen of times and beaten several times, burned to the death by Akainu and yet he still keep coming back just like Kaidou.

In my opinion Kaidou could be a D. and they all have a damn good luck

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

I think it's been said he was the first. The 'Pirate King' wasn't even an official thing until Roger and even then, it was more of a nickname or so at first due to what he achieved and his power.

The yonko probably weren't a thing back then. The yonko are called so because they are the most notorious and powerful pirates. That wouldn't be accurate if Roger was the PK and possibly the most powerful person. The yonko are also unable to advance because of the threats of the others. Odds are, the yonko tried to reproduce his feats after his death and attain the PK name and in the process, conquered the NW which lead marines and other pirates to acknowledge them as the yonko. There can't really be a PK and still be yonko (individuals considered to be the most powerful and influential). The yonko thing probably would have to be negated for a PK to be acknowledged. Still, if they are alive, they would retain a certain level of fame and influence regardless.




Well sea stone like smoker puts it, is basically a solid form of the sea and it gives off the same wavelength. We already know that the sea doesn't actually negate abilities, it just robs DF user of the energy to consciously control their power. Seastone does the same thing. We've seen Law swap Kairoseki with room and at marineford, Mr. 3's wax worked on Ace's handcuffs.



They might have been able to but the existence of 4 yonko makes it impossible. None of them can move forward because the others would interfere.

The point is despite the kairouseki could drain the energy and negate devil fruit users powers it cannot negate the nature or product caused by its power. So regardless the wax key was a product of a devil fruit power is just a key made of wax and nothing more and just works fine on kairouseki handcuffs.

 

[kkck]

And that's why I keep saying he looks a lot like Luffy, in Impel Down Luffy was heavily poisoned by Maggelan, fierced a few times (Crocodile, Luccy), drown other dozen of times and beaten several times, burned to the death by Akainu and yet he still keep coming back just like Kaidou.

In my opinion Kaidou could be a D. and they all have a damn good luck

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------



The point is despite the kairouseki could drain the energy and negate devil fruit users powers it cannot negate the nature or product caused by its power. So regardless the wax key was a product of a devil fruit power is just a key made of wax and nothing more and just works fine on kairouseki handcuffs.

Well, but take crocodile back at ID.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/540/14

The implication would be that fruit users keep their abilities while in contact with sea stone. However they are so absurdly drained of energy that they can't even turn into their element or use their abilities to escape it.

Now, the big question, does that make sense? Crocodile there is just walking around while wearing a kairoseki cuff. Does it make sense that he is able to move at all if he is so drained he can't use his ability? Well, that is a somewhat subjective point but even then it does not seem likely. Kairoseki would not be an effective countermeasure against fruit users if the nature of the user remained so to speak. Take luffy. If it worked the same as water then kairoseki cuffs would not be effective, luffy would just get his hands out without any major effort. Even crocodile and ace should have a relatively easy time freeing themselves from them.

 

[Fox666]

According to the Wikia, handcuffs Kairoseki have less density and that allows the user to walk around (although it doesn't provide a source).

I can't remember Luffy ever using Kairoseki handcuffs, I guess he could easily get them off.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

According to the Wikia, handcuffs Kairoseki have less density and that allows the user to walk around (although it doesn't provide a source).

I can't remember Luffy ever using Kairoseki handcuffs, I guess he could easily get them off.

He had them on in PH, before Law switched them with regular ones.

 

[I Am Atomic]

He had them on in PH, before Law switched them with regular ones.

They were chains not just handcuffs like Ace had.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

They were chains not just handcuffs like Ace had.

But isn't it almost the same? Unless the chains are more dense than the handcuffs.We saw Luffy be weakened by them.