Discussion King Zahard discussion

[Demonspeed]

Zahard should be comfortably above the others. Not overwhelmingly stronger but strong enough to defeat them all the time in a serious confrontation. Data Eduan even said that Baam is the only one able to defeat him, and Data Zahard said the same. That Baam can reach his level.

 

[ambition]

isn't it already been mentioned that strongest FH Arie Hon fought Zahard 10 times before coming to the tower and lost 10 times thus becoming the Zahard servant. If Zahard and FH where equal Arie Hon might have won a few times too. Since Zahard won the battle before entering the tower that means with no additional advantages or contract he defeated the Hon. My guess is Zahard>>Arie Hon>Koon Eduan>Ha Yurin>Tu Perie Tperie>Eurasia Blossom>Po Bidau Gustang>Hendo Lok Bloodmadder>Yeon Hana>Ari Han>Lo Po Bia. Some FH might be equal to each other.

 

[Echizen_Akira]

I don’t think his sword is an actual weapon - it’s one that he makes with his own shinsoo. Hard to say if he had that outside the tower but somehow I suspect he had something similar.

It's definitely a real sword, it was created by the head of the workshop and it is the last weapon he ever made.

isn't it already been mentioned that strongest FH Arie Hon fought Zahard 10 times before coming to the tower and lost 10 times thus becoming the Zahard servant. If Zahard and FH where equal Arie Hon might have won a few times too. Since Zahard won the battle before entering the tower that means with no additional advantages or contract he defeated the Hon. My guess is Zahard>>Arie Hon>Koon Eduan>Ha Yurin>Tu Perie Tperie>Eurasia Blossom>Po Bidau Gustang>Hendo Lok Bloodmadder>Yeon Hana>Ari Han>Lo Po Bia. Some FH might be equal to each other.

Outside the tower there is supposed to be no shinsoo, which means their fight was based purely on physical ability. There should be a great difference between the them of the outside and the them inside the tower, they also all went through "revolution" so while I do think Jahad is stronger, I don't think their previous fights should be used as proof.

After all, if you compare Baam when he first arrived to the Baam of now, there is a huge difference. Though Baam was considered weak for an irregular it should show shinsoo makes a great deal of difference.

 

[TheMoa]

the 3 orders, 3 eyes thing is a good catch.

I think about Hansung comments to Evankhell on their flashback. He says that he can't be immortal (Bloodmadder bloodline, probably) and so he doesn't fear death like the other rankers, who are practically immortals (they don't die from old age) and live in fear of death.

My personal theory is that immortality changed Zahard. He was the ultimate adventurer, always up for a new challenge (we got a glimpse on the HF, from Zahard actions and Eduan comments), always facing death head on.
Then he becomes the king of the tower and nobody inside it can kill him. He starts to fear losing his immortality, so he puts his effort to stop anything that can jeopardize it.
So he stops the climb. If he clears the whole tower.. people will have a direct way to get outside. Outside he's no God and have no immortality, there are Axis there too. So he fears losing his kingdom, he fears Arlene's prophecy and he fears that what he have done will catch up with him.

To instill more fear on him... there's Enryu coming out of nowhere, slaying a guarding and prophesying his doom. It was followed by Phanta showing up on his palace... whatever he said to Zahard can play a part into it too.

Lacking but not discrediting this line of thinking is whatever Baam is. We know he's not normal, he was dead at some point, he has this "devouring" ability and there's Rachel comments about Arlene calling him a monster who would destroy the tower (could be mind games, but fits with Data Zahard calling him little monster too, even if with another meaning).

So maybe Zahard fears whatever Baam can bring to the Tower.

 

[Kallavan]

The monster that Data Zahard show to Baam (Baam seemed to be afraid of it btw), is that a real thing ? Do you think that we will see more of this monster in the future ?

 

[Ripcord]

The monster that Data Zahard show to Baam (Baam seemed to be afraid of it btw), is that a real thing ? Do you think that we will see more of this monster in the future ?

I think it was real given that the tentacles on the HF that killed Hwang were made of the same stuff and Wangnan has those “horns” coming out of the back of his neck. I also think Bam has something similar in him because both Bam and Zahard caused someone to attack them.

 

[Kallavan]

Wow, I never thought about the "horns" of Wangnan but it makes sense now... Zahard could have the same... it may be a trait in his family.

The monster thing and its tentacles etc ... that's very mysterious and we hadn't any explication about it yet. Baam saw it, other people saw it too, yet we don't see them ask themself "What the hell is that ?" etc ...

 

[Ripcord]

Wow, I never thought about the "horns" of Wangnan but it makes sense now... Zahard could have the same... it may be a trait in his family.

The monster thing and its tentacles etc ... that's very mysterious and we hadn't any explication about it yet. Baam saw it, other people saw it too, yet we don't see them ask themself "What the hell is that ?" etc ...

I think they’re just too shocked that they can’t express it.

 

[VON]

TBH I have no idea of how exactly zahard compares to the FHs. I don't even have a theory on it. At times he seems like he should win comfortably against all but hon, eduan and maybe yurin... But at times it seems like the others should be able to hold their ground at least. The most telling but is that zahard won against hon 10 out of 10 times even though hon even has the only S+ class weapon in the tower. I guess the question here would be with what margin zahard won... Maybe zahard won 10 out of 10 times by a hair....

Zahard won 10 times outside the Tower so Arie Hon didn't have his new special sword yet.

 

[Kallavan]

Do you guys like Zahard character ? Even if we don't really know him, I love him.
Why ? I like the fact that he is some kind of a fallen hero a la darth vader, although I think that his bad actions have some reason, for me he is not evil at all.
The design is really cool, and it was a surprise to see him, even as an adult, he looks so young (I know that he is immortal) for a king, no facial heard etc...

As a data, I like his personnality, always looking for difficult fights, has big dreams, adventurer, summary: a typical main character !
His fighting style is really cool too, one of my favorites of the manwha, his needle is OP too, even more when we saw that the real Zahard has 3 swords, I don't think it's risky to say that the 2 others swords are more powerful than Lecalicus and that they are ones of the most powerful needles of the tower.

The real Zahard looks even cooler, btw how the f*ck is he that tall ? will Baam be that tall too ? I think it is said on the wiki that he is the tallest humanoid character we have seen in the series.

I love his attitude too, the small we have seen from him, he looks so relaxed, very wise, keeping his cool even when he should be angry (when attacked by his data and Eduan's).

I know that he is the main antagonist of the manhwa, but I can't help I like him a lot, even if he has done horrible things (I think that he is less a d*ck than the family heads)

 

[Ripcord]

Do you guys like Zahard character ? Even if we don't really know him, I love him.
Why ? I like the fact that he is some kind of a fallen hero a la darth vader, although I think that his bad actions have some reason, for me he is not evil at all.
The design is really cool, and it was a surprise to see him, even as an adult, he looks so young (I know that he is immortal) for a king, no facial heard etc...

As a data, I like his personnality, always looking for difficult fights, has big dreams, adventurer, summary: a typical main character !
His fighting style is really cool too, one of my favorites of the manwha, his needle is OP too, even more when we saw that the real Zahard has 3 swords, I don't think it's risky to say that the 2 others swords are more powerful than Lecalicus and that they are ones of the most powerful needles of the tower.

The real Zahard looks even cooler, btw how the f*ck is he that tall ? will Baam be that tall too ? I think it is said on the wiki that he is the tallest humanoid character we have seen in the series.

I love his attitude too, the small we have seen from him, he looks so relaxed, very wise, keeping his cool even when he should be angry (when attacked by his data and Eduan's).

I know that he is the main antagonist of the manhwa, but I can't help I like him a lot, even if he has done horrible things (I think that he is less a d*ck than the family heads)

It could be that via some contract Zahard was able to boost his height. Well that or the projection on the HF was not his real appearance, like the Wizard of Oz. I think he really is that big though.

I thought it was a great reveal - initially the chunni Zahard was kinda strange, but it grew on me and then when the adult Zahard showed up, that huge contrast really helped give the sense that Zahard had changed a lot when he climbed. If Zahard had dressed the same when he was young it wouldn’t have been so dramatic.

When I first saw data Zahard I thought “wtf is SIU doing... the main villain is so... ridiculous” but then real Zahard was off the chain. I can’t wait for more.

 

[kkck]

Ah, who knows about zahard's height... Maybe shinsoo? Could also be that he is a super athlete...

Had the real zahard still used shorts I would have laughed and cried. I assume he doesn't wear his king clothes all day every day though. Kinda like other characters who sometimes wear ordinary clothes (in our eyes) and sometimes they wear more folkloric clothes (like bam's jyu viole grace look).

 

[Kallavan]

Ah, who knows about zahard's height... Maybe shinsoo? Could also be that he is a super athlete...

Had the real zahard still used shorts I would have laughed and cried. I assume he doesn't wear his king clothes all day every day though. Kinda like other characters who sometimes wear ordinary clothes (in our eyes) and sometimes they wear more folkloric clothes (like bam's jyu viole grace look).

LMAO just imagine if he kept this short ... with sockets in his sandals..

Do you think he wears a crown normally ?

 

[cash2088]

I have ZERO problem with someone having their own, differing opinions.

***But there is such a thing as presenting them as opinion vs presenting them as fact.***

There is also such a thing as being combative and contrarian. As in - literally every point has to be argued against to the point someone is creating straw men to attack (that Khell 'didn't actually fight Zahard' whatever that means - when that was not the point made at all) and just arguing to the point that you're saying Enryu was pretty much ambivalent about Zahard just to try and stick to your argumentation (when we know that's absolutely not the case thus far).

Go back to my first post to him that he replied to - I started it by finding common ground about what I agreed with. I find myself all the time saying 'true, but....' to people I don't agree with on here and there's no problems there.

Funny, but I think rather than what you say - that I'm against him having his own opinions - the truth lies closer to he has a hard time having anyone question his opinions without being contrarian about every. single. thing.

Did you have anything you were in agreement or disagreement about that is being discussed?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2020 ---

You've pretty much lost the plot if you say that Enryu, based on nothing and in fact opposite to what lore we have on him, didn't really have an opinion on Zahard - and have descended into just being argumentative.

You’re just very loquacious for little reason my friend. And you present opinions as much if not more as fact. We need not go back and forth.

these aren’t arbitrary they’ve been stated. Regulars are protected
Zahard ISN’T a god and that isn’t a supposition no matter what the people of his Empire have been LED to believe. He answers to a higher power within the tower he is no god. Most of his friends don’t even call him a “King” they call him fake.... So let’s just believe the distinction of godlike power and deification through belief are one in the same then!

Arlene prayed to the god on the outside. The God took up her cause. Enryu has a mission to deliver the THORN for her slain child and the prophecy. You throwing Enryu is you going on tangents as usual for little reason other to obscure the main point. Enryu being enraged is all good and well but what did Zahard do to Enryu personally? Not a thing... So his rage is one by association or by virtue of his mission. He knows what he was there for and might show up to Baam in the future.

You proposed Khell fought Zahard but he’s alive so he didn’t fight him. He witnessed his awe inspiring power and became a punk. Beyond that you have NOTHING to address that admins protect regulars and not rankers... This has been stated. Show me Khell was a regular and I’ll concede the point.

It matters not WHY he can’t come down. I showed you he would if he could. Yet you refute little nuances as usual.

Again, how am I making your point when the two times he could encounter him to kill him were 1 when he was not a regular (as a baby) and two on a hidden floor away from admins? (Key word hidden)

Just claiming I’m proving your point doesn’t make it so if you actually try to understand the other persons point. Like the Eurasia thing, it was such a FACT to you until it wasn’t.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

OR it's nothing to do with Admins and/or Jahad being restricted, Jahad could be playing the long game here, entertain Baam through fate manipulation, raise everyone's hope that Baam can perhaps stand up to him, all forces gather around Baam. Then Adori, Jahad (with perhaps Lo Po Bia FH and Arie Hon?), appear and squash all the bugs, Baam will have to think twice next time before challenging Jahad again.

My point is, with the minute facts given in the story, all any of us can do is speculate on what we think is happening, we pick a certain point and think about the endless possibilities of that path, so there ain't much alarm for us to sharply disagree on these things, because as has been proven over time and time again, SIU will have most of us in a (in your face!)kind of twist. We should be soft on one another, particularly on such things concerning our own theories.

But that's kind of my point. Speculating on as to WHY. The admin COULD be restricting him, but there's no consistency to say that. I suggested it was something else. That's all there is to it.

 

[cash2088]

But that's kind of my point. Speculating on as to WHY. The admin COULD be restricting him, but there's no consistency to say that. I suggested it was something else. That's all there is to it.

I’ve said because he is not above an admin, yet that wasn’t satisfactory?

Admin restrictions are not a MAYBE and to suggest Zahard isn’t subject to them is what is the maybe in this scenario.

I like that you argue the least likely scenario but if we found out it was self imposed wouldn’t it just ruin the story?

So we know there is a reason...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

You’re just very loquacious for little reason my friend. And you present opinions as much if not more as fact. We need not go back and forth.

In reality, I present my opinion as opinion (how many 'probably's and 'likely' or similar verbiage did I use? - lots!). Go back and read your post response to me. You are the one making claims as fact - that aren't really supported by the story. Is there a problem with saying that's not the case?

these aren’t arbitrary they’ve been stated. Regulars are protected

In certain areas, not so much. Once again, we've seen now multiple rankers attack Baam with intent to kill and ZERO admin interference. And if the admin had Baam's back irrespective of the floor area, they certainly didn't intervene when Zahard was seconds away from choking the life out of him. Again.

Zahard ISN’T a god and that isn’t a supposition no matter what the people of his Empire have been LED to believe. He answers to a higher power within the tower he is no god.

You're arguing against something I haven't said (still/again). Once again... my point: do you know just how and to what extent he 'answers' to admin - or for that matter if he answers at all? Perhaps the guardians ceded all power to him in exchange for x, y, or z. Why does an admin on 2F have pretend to 'fire' EVK as cover for going against Zahard if they are so much over him? Why not outright opposition? You simply don't know, neither do I. And for a tower resident Zahard has god-like leeway. I never said he WAS a god. But that's a matter of perspective; a matter I pointedly addressed.

Arlene prayed to the god on the outside. The God took up her cause. Enryu has a mission to deliver the THORN for her slain child and the prophecy. You throwing Enryu is you going on tangents as usual for little reason other to obscure the main point. Enryu being enraged is all good and well but what did Zahard do to Enryu personally? Not a thing...

EXACTLY. You can't pretend he was just there to cash a paycheck though. He was decidedly anti-Zahard due to what he did to Arlen's 'shrine'. Killing his minions and calling their leader a 'false king' pretty much lends credence to his opinion on Zahard. So, if he was above Zahard in power, hated him, made moves to see to his death.... why not just skip A through Y and go straight to Z? I suggest there is more to the story than you suggest (he just didn't want to) - and perhaps even his enormous powers were bound or limited (perhaps a time limit).

You proposed Khell fought Zahard but he’s alive so he didn’t fight him.

I *really* am not sure why you continue to argue this. Yes, I suggest that because the story suggested that (or rather left open the possibility). I really don't care how much they came to blows - if at all. That has NOTHING to do with my point. I don't care if Zahard came down to play hopscotch with him - my point was HE CAME DOWN.

This is what I mean with the strawman thing...

He witnessed his awe inspiring power and became a punk.

Did they fight beforehand? I must have missed the panels... Because the FACT is everyone else there was killed or taken prisoner or attempted to escape death. This implies a FIGHT (of some sort) took place. Sowo said many died or were captured - that doesn't tend to happen short of some fight or show of power. Who knows if Zahard put on the kid gloves or not just to play around prior to releasing just to scare Khell. Either way it matters not. This argument is a *distraction* to the FACT that Zahard takes it on himself to do dirty work from time to time. Which, again, is the only point that matters in my post.

Beyond that you have NOTHING to address that admins protect regulars and not rankers... This has been stated.

lol, that's not my argument. That's your argument. How many times have rankers and regulars come to blow at this point - specifically rankers attacking Baam? When did the admin step in to stop Zahard from unleashing enough power to scare Khell? Restrain Enne (hell, that must have been an ENORMOUS release of energy on Zahard's end, as well as Enne's)? Did an admin attempt to stop Zahard's warp into the data floor to outright kill Baam? NO. ADMIN GENERALLY AREN'T STOPPING ZAHARD IS MY POINT - we have ZERO examples of that happening. Nor have they moved to stop any other ranker that has threatened or fought Baam. It simply hasn't happened. Baam is decidedly not under the 24-7 protection of 'EVK's admin' as you propose.

It matters not WHY he can’t come down. I showed you he would if he could. Yet you refute little nuances as usual.

You mean like when he DID? He literally teleported, presumably from 134F, right into data floor (as much as it could take) to outright kill Baam. He went to stop Enne (probably). He went to fuck with Khell (definitely).

Once again I ask this pointed question you gloss over: how is ANY OTHER RANKER fighting against Baam in attempt to kill him on whatever floor in whatever area any different from Zahard doing the same thing?

 

[cash2088]

Again right after he tried to strangle him on the data floor and Baam escaped Zahard had the option of going to where Baam escaped to, or sending people to do the Job.

Seeing as Zahard wouldn’t have failed had he gone there himself and he ostensibly can see fate, why would he then send the option with the actual chance of failure?

Same reason why he has to manipulate Wangnan with that sword.....“To kill one person”

Yes, this is all my opinion. Why does that cause you umbrage? The thread is a thread of opinions and my initial post wasn’t parading anything as fact just my opinion on why. Yet it needed to be refuted? Lol

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I’ve said because he is not above an admin, yet that wasn’t satisfactory?

Admin restrictions are not a MAYBE and to suggest Zahard isn’t subject to them is what is the maybe in this scenario.

I like that you argue the least likely scenario but if we found out it was self imposed wouldn’t it just ruin the story?

So we know there is a reason...

The *fact* is you can't state the nature of their relationship or the limits, if any, placed on Zahard. But the story gives examples where he ISN'T restrained. So, no, that wasn't satisfactory.

 

[cash2088]

The *fact* is you can't state the nature of their relationship or the limits, if any, placed on Zahard. But the story gives examples where he ISN'T restrained. So, no, that wasn't satisfactory.

I can state where he is restrained but you dislike it... Lol cool

and if it’s proven right? You’ll say nothing and act as if it never happened.

We saw Urek had to hide his presence to descend but you think Zahard has contracts that bypass this but he doesn’t use them?

again what difference will it make if you find out the admins rules stopped him OR He can’t leave his throne room due to his contracts? The effect on the story is the same

the reason he hasn’t just warped to Baam.

ok PoMPom I apologize