Fantasy Kyria vs Jacob

[Ramen]

In manga, compare scale of Natsu attacks with his body and environment (i posted links on original and on sequel before). Current attack looks more tiny.

Sure, they can look tiny but AoE doesn't mean much. Look at Ajeel, his Sandstorm has massive AoE but it's not a heavy hitting spell as it is meant to be movement based and evasive. But on the other hand, some of the strongest spells aren't AoE heavy like RL, Natsu's FDK Demo FIst, Gray's DeS spells.

 

[WoWfan]

Sure, they can look tiny but AoE doesn't mean much. Look at Ajeel, his Sandstorm has massive AoE but it's not a heavy hitting spell as it is meant to be movement based and evasive. But on the other hand, some of the strongest spells aren't AoE heavy like RL, Natsu's FDK Demo FIst, Gray's DeS spells.

Look at it this way, Sandstorm still generates energy via all the mass of the sand blown away and the strength of said wind, it still can be used to attack peoplem everything still requires energy, even Wall used nuclear fusion based techniques, so he generates massive energy regardless of size.

 

[Ramen]

Look at it this way, Sandstorm still generates energy via all the mass of the sand blown away and the strength of said wind, it still can be used to attack peoplem everything still requires energy, even Wall used nuclear fusion based techniques, so he generates massive energy regardless of size.

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying it doesn't deal damage. Size of the attack doesn't mean anything. It requires a lot of energy because it's a strong spell but not an attack based one. Like Fairy Sphere, it requires massive amounts of energy but doesn't deal damage

Some of the strongest attacks we've seen aren't massive spells.

 

[WoWfan]

That is what I have been saying as well, size does not matter, but regardless of what type of spell it is, it still requires energy to do it.

 

[Axiomus]

Some ppl believe... Natsu feats in sequel is above everything he did before (because on 1st page of sequel it said - "they're stronger then before !")

No. The line saying they're stronger than before simply debunks any nonsense about any members of Fairy Tail being inexplicably nerfed for no apparent reasons. Natsu's feats in the sequel is above what he did in the Alvarez arc because he's beating up more impressive opponents:

• Gajeel killed Bloodman during Alvarez. Natsu beat Gajeel using LFD, and had energy left over to beat Makarov. It should be a no brainer that beating Gajeel in hand to hand combat is more impressive than beating Jacob.
• Madmole tanked shots from both Natsu and Mirajane that would have oneshotted Jacob. Natsu overpowered Madmole with FDK Purgatory.
• Even beating up Makarov is more impressive than beating Jacob or Neinhart. Makarov smashed Jacob with a punch, and tanked the Jupiter canon with an arm. Compare this to Ajeel getting wrecked when he was hit by Jupiter.
• Natsu with Ignia's flames is more impressive than Natsu with Igneel's magic power or raging flames of emotion.

The only thing Natsu has done that is more impressive in the Alvarez arc than the 100YQ is beat Acnologia. And that was done with the help with all 7 dragon slayers and Fairy Sphere severely weakening Acno.

Also, the size of Natsu's attacks does not matter. What matters is how much damage they do, and the durability of his opponents. The attack that beat Zeref was room sized. The attack that beat Acnologai was building sized. The attack that beat Mercphobia, who was stronger than any of the Spriggans, didn't even produce a large onscreen explosion.

 

[Ramen]

No. The line saying they're stronger than before simply debunks any nonsense about any members of Fairy Tail being inexplicably nerfed for no apparent reasons. Natsu's feats in the sequel is above what he did in the Alvarez arc because he's beating up more impressive opponents:

• Gajeel killed Bloodman during Alvarez. Natsu beat Gajeel using LFD, and had energy left over to face Makarov.
• Makarov smashed Jacob during Alvarez. Natsu beat Makarov.
• Madmole tanked shots from both Natsu and Mirajane that would have oneshotted Jacob. Natsu overpowered Madmole with FDK Purgatory.
• Natsu with Ignia's flames is more impressive than Natsu with Igneel's magic power or raging flames of emotion.

The only thing Natsu has done that is more impressive in the Alvarez arc than the 100YQ is beat Acnologia. And that was done with the help with all 7 dragon slayers and Fairy Sphere severely weakening Natsu.

One shot** Makarov

 

[WoWfan]

Natsu beat Makarov (stronger than peak) in one shot while he was low on magic, that right there is proof enough that current enemies are weaker than Previous enemies. Madmole fight retconned by Wraith With no magic Natsu at same strength as Madmole. Also, evaporating lake is more impressive than anything Natsu did in 100 year quest

 

[Ramen]

Natsu beat Makarov (stronger than peak) in one shot while he was low on magic, that right there is proof enough that current enemies are weaker than Previous enemies

It could mean that yes, but on the flip side, it could mean that everyone has just gotten stronger.

Natsu two shot an enchanted Neinhart in Alvarez, that doesn't mean Neinhart is weaker than previous enemies

 

[WoWfan]

It could mean that yes, but on the flip side, it could mean that everyone has just gotten stronger.

Natsu two shot an enchanted Neinhart in Alvarez, that doesn't mean Neinhart is weaker than previous enemies

Look at it this way, Brandish could still shrink Gray while he still has his Devil Slayer Magic up, so that would mean that she was still stronger then. and Very weak Irene’s magic that destroyed several buildings defeating a stronger DE in one shot, while Brandish no flexing raised an island or Ajeel creating a massive sand tsunami or create sink holes that swallow entire towns. Neinhart is physically weak compared to the other Spriggans.

 

[Ramen]

Look at it this way, Brandish could still shrink Gray while he still has his Devil Slayer Magic up, so that would mean that she was still stronger then. and Very weak Irene’s magic that destroyed several buildings defeating a stronger DE in one shot, while Brandish no flexing raised an island or Ajeel creating a massive sand tsunami or create sink holes that swallow entire towns. Neinhart is physically weak compared to the other Spriggans.

Skullion knocked him out of the DeS no?

Brandish expanding an Island isn't the most impressive thing,that's kust her magic.

The 5 DGS are by default stronger than another villian after Acnologia and maybe Zeref

 

[WoWfan]

Skullion knocked him out of the DeS no?

Brandish expanding an Island isn't the most impressive thing,that's kust her magic.

The 5 DGS are by default stronger than another villian after Acnologia and maybe Zeref

No, he was going to kill him had Brandish not saved him

it still uses energy, even raising lands in real life have energy behind it, the 5DG are stronger yes, but that is besides what I was going for

 

[Axiomus]

Brandish could shrink Gray when his body was getting ripped by Skullion's ash magic. Oh, and he was shocked out of his demonized form too. No markings.

Spoiler

Neinhart was never stated to be physically weak compared to the Spriggans. This is just a poor excuse people use to pretend that Neinhart doesn't represent what it means to be a Spriggan.

Brandish was knocked out by Cana and cut up by Dimaria using a regular knife. Her magic wasn't strong enough to effect enchanted Neinhart.

Lisanna could pull Elfman out of Ajeel's sandpits. Think about that for a second. Any exceed could counter Ajeel's sand pit by flying. A single bolt from Laxus countered sands of death.

 

[WoWfan]

No, he still has markings as it is still there even when he was being turned to ash, it just his skin where the marks are is turning to ash, does not make any difference. He is physically weak though by his actions especially with being desired to be protected and even hid from everyone. Brandish has hay fever which can make you physically weak and unfocused which is enough for Cana to knock her out by surprise. Yet exceeds are still in the pit as Natsu got them out.

 

[Axiomus]

I'm done with this. If you can't even tell the difference between Mashima drawing shadows and Gray's demon markings, then there is truly no point in continuing this discussion. I'm not interested in having to debunk a bunch of nonsensical claims. This will be the last one:

Spoiler: This is Gray drawn with shadows on his face

Spoiler: This is Gray drawn with demon markings

Spoiler: There's a huge difference

It's pretty sad that the only way to justify Jacob's utterly ridiculous level of hype is to pretend that Natsu has been nerfed, but ultimately it doesn't even matter. Nerfing Natsu does not save Jacob here. The character Jacob's attack power actually scales to as failing to damage is Lucy, and Lucy hasn't been nerfed. In fact, Lucy has objectively gotten stronger from Alvarez to 100YQ. The difference in damage between Jacob's and Kyria's attacks on her speaks for itself.

Without transport, Jacob has no realistic way of dealing significant damage on Kyria. His hand to hand attacks are a minor annoyance at best, and the idea that Jacob's knives can do anything to Kyria is laughable. Kyria can block Erza's slashes barehanded, break her katana with her kicks, and wasn't cut by the belserion sword's slash. Kyria is the blade dragon. You'll be lucky Kyria doesn't just eat Jacob's daggers for a power-up.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Are you guys seriously bringing real life Chemistry to Fairy Tail? I don't know whether to laugh or face palm. It's one thing to use Math to try and calculate speed and scale power levels but discussing chemical equations is another.

@Jean Grey MH lost it's humor lol

yeah, I don't know people here anymore

 

[Verter]

No. The line saying they're stronger than before simply debunks any nonsense about any members of Fairy Tail being inexplicably nerfed for no apparent reasons. Natsu's feats in the sequel is above what he did in the Alvarez arc because he's beating up more impressive opponents:

• Gajeel killed Bloodman during Alvarez. Natsu beat Gajeel using LFD, and had energy left over to beat Makarov. It should be a no brainer that beating Gajeel in hand to hand combat is more impressive than beating Jacob.
• Madmole tanked shots from both Natsu and Mirajane that would have oneshotted Jacob. Natsu overpowered Madmole with FDK Purgatory.
• Even beating up Makarov is more impressive than beating Jacob or Neinhart. Makarov smashed Jacob with a punch, and tanked the Jupiter canon with an arm. Compare this to Ajeel getting wrecked when he was hit by Jupiter.
• Natsu with Ignia's flames is more impressive than Natsu with Igneel's magic power or raging flames of emotion.

The only thing Natsu has done that is more impressive in the Alvarez arc than the 100YQ is beat Acnologia. And that was done with the help with all 7 dragon slayers and Fairy Sphere severely weakening Acno.

Also, the size of Natsu's attacks does not matter. What matters is how much damage they do, and the durability of his opponents. The attack that beat Zeref was room sized. The attack that beat Acnologai was building sized. The attack that beat Mercphobia, who was stronger than any of the Spriggans, didn't even produce a large onscreen explosion.

It's actually prove main characters (some of them) was nerfed for plot issues, because they became to strong for any participation in further events.
FT has more then 500 chapters, but BS about "Natsu magic is not working underwater" we saw only in sequel.
Skullion was not able to turn Wendy wind into "ash", so his "turning to ash" with water - strange and unexplained. His "fight" with Gray was like in cheap Chinese web novel with Marty Sue.

About your marks.

1. Natsu was stronger then Gajeel since Phantom Lord arc. Natsu beat him before w.o. LFD modes. Yeah, Gajeel stronger then he has in PL arc, as well as Natsu. But why we suggest Natsu vs Gajeel should mean anything ?!
Well, it should, because actually against FT members - Natsu gank used far more power then these DE. It's true. Entire first "battle" of team Natsu vs DE was a farce.
1.1. Bloodman is not melee fighter (he's warlock, he used curses). Gajeel stayed himself Bloodman magic power is lowest from all S12.
So with base on what you got idea defeat Bloodman for Gajeel is more impressive then for Natsu defeat Jacob ? And how one and second are correspond ?!
If someone want say again how Lucy didnt die in battle Jacob vs Natsu... well Levy as well didnt damaged in battle Natsu vs Gajeel.
(as add: Gajeel effectively died himself aganst Bloodman and was saved with plot armour).
2. Do that guy should be tank as armour DS ?
Well, basic attacks of Mirajanne and Elfman dealt for him more damage then FDK Natsu.
You will say it's not nerf for Natsu ? If Natsu FDK looks weaker then basic punches by Elfman and Mira....
3. I believed Macarov himself stated how S12 strong and how impossible to beat them, If ikr his magic power lower then S12.
When Wraith meet Macarov - Wraith has shocked how much magic power that dude has.
Is it joke or... ? If DE shocked by Macarov magic power.... compare them with S12 is pointless.
4. It's out of logic, sorry. Igneel is King of flame dragons, He's top tier dragon and Acno recognised him as worth enemy.
Ignia as cocky chicken who run and hide with fear of Acnologia. He confirmed it himself.
When Natsu used remainings of Igneel flames - it was able to melt to nothingness all, include earth, and Natsu was in clear mind. With Ignia flames (when Natsu was out of control, and wasn't properly control himself) - environment like buildings, trees etc was untouched.

 

[WoWfan]

His body was mostly disintegrated already so of course the mark would not be there, and those marks on Lucy you pointed out are still where blood was drawn, small but it‘s there, you ave just proven my point. Kyria was already weaker than Spriggans as she scales below even Makarov, since she is same level as Wraith. She did not even cut off any limbs with her attack while Jacob would have with his knives, Kyria can block Erza’s attack because she is the BLADE Dragon Slayer, Blades are her thing, nothing special there. Minerva broke her katana before, nothing special there, Belserion blade made Kyria incapacitated as she could no longer fight.

 

[Axiomus]

It's actually prove main characters (some of them) was nerfed for plot issues, because they became to strong for any participation in further events.
FT has more then 500 chapters, but BS about "Natsu magic is not working underwater" we saw only in sequel.
Skullion was not able to turn Wendy wind into "ash", so his "turning to ash" with water - strange and unexplained. His "fight" with Gray was like in cheap Chinese web novel with Marty Sue.

About your marks.

1. Natsu was stronger then Gajeel since Phantom Lord arc. Natsu beat him before w.o. LFD modes. Yeah, Gajeel stronger then he has in PL arc, as well as Natsu. But why we suggest Natsu vs Gajeel should mean anything ?!
Well, it should, because actually against FT members - Natsu gank used far more power then these DE. It's true. Entire first "battle" of team Natsu vs DE was a farce.
1.1. Bloodman is not melee fighter (he's warlock, he used curses). Gajeel stayed himself Bloodman magic power is lowest from all S12.
So with base on what you got idea defeat Bloodman for Gajeel is more impressive then for Natsu defeat Jacob ? And how one and second are correspond ?!
If someone want say again how Lucy didnt die in battle Jacob vs Natsu... well Levy as well didnt damaged in battle Natsu vs Gajeel.
(as add: Gajeel effectively died himself aganst Bloodman and was saved with plot armour).
2. Do that guy should be tank as armour DS ?
Well, basic attacks of Mirajanne and Elfman dealt for him more damage then FDK Natsu.
You will say it's not nerf for Natsu ? If Natsu FDK looks weaker then basic punches by Elfman and Mira....
3. I believed Macarov himself stated how S12 strong and how impossible to beat them, If ikr his magic power lower then S12.
When Wraith meet Macarov - Wraith has shocked how much magic power that dude has.
Is it joke or... ? If DE shocked by Macarov magic power.... compare them with S12 is pointless.
4. It's out of logic, sorry. Igneel is King of flame dragons, He's top tier dragon and Acno recognised him as worth enemy.
Ignia as cocky chicken who run and hide with fear of Acnologia. He confirmed it himself.
When Natsu used remainings of Igneel flames - it was able to melt to nothingness all, include earth, and Natsu was in clear mind. With Ignia flames (when Natsu was out of control, and wasn't properly control himself) - environment like buildings, trees etc was untouched.

Nobody has been nerfed. Period. A real nerf would be like Thor getting fat in Endgame when he almost killed Thanos in Infinity War. Or in Fairy Tail, like when Makarov started having health issues or Laxus getting poisoned.

Natsu beating Gajeel is a more impressive feat than beating Jacob or Neinhart, because Gajeel can kill Bloodman. Beating someone that can kill a Spriggan is more impressive than simply beating a Spriggan. Bloodman isn't a warlock.... I don't even know what that means. Bloodman even throws melee attacks. Gajeel said that Bloodman's magic power is the lowest out of the Spriggan 12 because it is. Bloodman uses curse power, and he has Spriggan level curse power

Lucy wasn't even serious injured against Jacob after being hit like 20 times. Levy wasn't hit by Natsu even once. He couldn't muster up the will to actually punch her because she was pregnant.

Mirajane and Elfman didn't deal more damage to Bloodman than FDK Natsu. Madmole was barely scratched against Mirajane and Elfman. FDK Purgatory actually managed to knock Madmole off his feet and seriously damage Madmole. It was impressive enough for Skullion to order a retreat.

Makarov had more magic power than Wraith. The Spriggans probably have more magic power than Wraith too. Despite having all of that MP, Jacob's attack power still sucks. If the Alvarez arc has taught us anything, it's that having higher MP is meaningless unless it actually translates into something useful.

Ignia's flames dragonized Natsu were hot enough to burn his own arms. Overpowering Mercphobia's serious roar and burning away all of Mercphobia's remaining magic power for the rest of his life is more impressive than setting the ground on fire....which has never actually been impressive. Natsu literally used Mercphobia to smash the city, so I dunno what you are on about when you say the environment was untouched.

Spoiler

 

[WoWfan]

Natsu has been nerfed, with all his power ups basically exclusive and his showings not as impressive as the ones before and his enemies weaker than before. Gajeel only beat Bloodman because he gained the same level of strength as he did. Levy still defeated Natsu regardless. Jacob still scales to Natsu’s attacks regardless and he held back, no, MP does determine one’s strength as recent chapters in 100 year quest have proven. Ignia’s flames burn anything, even Natsu‘s body, that is his hax.

 

[Axiomus]

His body was mostly disintegrated already so of course the mark would not be there, and those marks on Lucy you pointed out are still where blood was drawn, small but it‘s there, you ave just proven my point. Kyria was already weaker than Spriggans as she scales below even Makarov, since she is same level as Wraith. She did not even cut off any limbs with her attack while Jacob would have with his knives, Kyria can block Erza’s attack because she is the BLADE Dragon Slayer, Blades are her thing, nothing special there. Minerva broke her katana before, nothing special there, Belserion blade made Kyria incapacitated as she could no longer fight.

Curse marks weren't on the places that weren't disintegrated, which means Gray wasn't demonized when Brandish shrunk him.

Lucy was barely even injured against Jacob. She was out cold against Kyria.

Kyria is not the same level as Wraith. Wraith considers Madmole to be so strong that he cannot fight, which means Wraith is below Madmole. Kyria scales to Madmole.

Yes. Kyria is the blade dragon slayer. So she hard counters every bladed weapon in Jacob's arsenal, leaving him with his weak whips and slaps.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2020 ---

Natsu has been nerfed, with all his power ups basically exclusive and his showings not as impressive as the ones before and his enemies weaker than before. Gajeel only beat Bloodman because he gained the same level of strength as he did. Levy still defeated Natsu regardless. Jacob still scales to Natsu’s attacks regardless and he held back, no, MP does determine one’s strength as recent chapters in 100 year quest have proven. Ignia’s flames burn anything, even Natsu‘s body, that is his hax.

11 pages, and not a single reason for how characters of the main cast have lost power.

Gajeel didn't gain any strength. He simply gained the ability to touch Bloodman.

Levy defeated Natsu because he refused to hit a pregnant woman and she pushed him on a cart triggering his motion sickness. This is relevant....How?

Jacob doesn't scale to any of Natsu's high end attacks lol. He scales to the kick that Natsu did with Lucy.

Ignia's flames simply has better feats than Igneel's power.