Discussion Laxus Dreyar Thread

[Brandish μ]

Well, if there are reasons that you can't explain, then tell me how that would make it valid. If you believe in the reason that Laxus beat Wahl was because it was more than just lightning, then I am speechless. Sheer power is not everything. In fact, Wahl is just as strong as Laxus or greater, so with immunity against lightning, he should not have died so easily. I can bet anyone that if it was Erza, Gray, or Lucy performing this feat, you guys would automatically rate the chapter a 1 out of 10.

I know that Jellal had two identities but what I meant with my question was when did Laxus use thought projection? I can't remember him using it.

I'm saying that red lightning is superior to his normal lightning, in a way I am not sure of, but that's the implication. If I was to give you a reason to validate it that would be nothing more than a guess. In terms of magic though there are instances where one particular magic type can be advanced to be on a different level (e.g Brandish' magic is called an advanced level of transformation magic by Erza; I would think Ajeel's sand magic is an advanced level of the same magic Max uses; FDK spells are an advanced/higher level of fire dragon slayer spells for Natsu). Again I am assuming that this is what red lightning is, and that Wahl's defences couldn't take this advanced level of lightning (well he couldn't analyse it). If something is added to the lightning to make it different then my points become null and void.

I don't think there is a legit argument that Wahl > Laxus based on their fight, unless we're talking Etherion which I think gets Wahl in the conversation. I don't mind if they're rated the same but really Laxus has shown enough now to be considered above the likes of Ajeel, God Serena and Wahl.

I actually like Erza, Gray and Lucy so I probably wouldn't go out of my way to discredit their feats.

Laxus used thought projections in the Fighting Festival arc when he was outlining the rules to Makarov and co at the beauty contest iirc. I don't think thought projections are hard to make, although the one Jellal made he invested a fair bit of MP into.

 

[Libarian]

Dual magic is not a problem because it is essentially not a new type of magic. As long as the user combines it with their own, it would serve more like a "power-up". There is a reason why Hiro Mashima never let a character learn magic from another character because then there is no point of having unique characters with their own special type of magic anymore. A prime example is the filler episode in the anime where Mirajane teaches Natsu, Gray, and Lucy how to master Takeover Magic with Macao, Wakaba, along with Happy watching. Hiro Mashima could have easily decided to use that chance to make Natsu and Gray OP but he didn't. That is why the episode is filler.

As for how I said that it should take a long time to learn magic, we've seen it with Gray spending his whole childhood learning Ice-Make Magic. We have Lucy who has greatly improved since the beginning of the series where she was really inexperienced with using her Celestial Spirit Magic. We have Ultear who studied really hard from Hades' books just to learn Arc of Time Magic. We have all the Dragon Slayers learning Dragon Slaying Magic from their respective dragons since they were a kid.

Honestly, I can go on and on... One year is not that long if we put the whole timeline of Fairy Tail into perspective. Even if Laxus were to train for 24 hours straight, every single day... It most likely won't be sufficient. There is nothing wrong with all of us admitting that Laxus' fight with Wahl had some problems. Again, nobody should put down Laxus for losing against a Spriggan but the events during that fight should be analyzed fairly. After all, I've already said in the past that every character has unrealistic feats at one point in the story so nobody is perfect. That is why I don't see the logic behind critizing Erza for her illogical feats.

This statement is just wrong every point you is countered by the manga itself. Evergreen learned to rewirte a selected part of Freed runes before the first time-skip just by being around him, Laxus should have the same base to draw from. We have Brain flat out say that he taught Jellal self-destruction magic(rune based) as well as other which we know have to include at least four different elements since he used abyss brake in addition to heavenly body magic, plus he was able to imitate Mystogan well enough to foul about 90% of the guild at the GMGs. Just about every attack spell that Wendy knows was learned by mimicking Natsu she was only in the guild 3-4months. Everyone in Oración Seis learned a secondary magic one being the same as Zero's the arc is canon. Also what episode are you talking about?

One year is actually a very long time in Fairy tail, http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline july 2 x784-december 15 the same year is everything from lucy showing up to the first timeskip the GMGs to the second major time skip is only about two months more a year. You cite Gery working his entire childhood to learn Ice magic, that just wrong the attack, his training, and his joining the guild all happened in the same year X774 Wendy learned two spells she could barely read in a week, if Laxus has the basic knowledge for rune magic that is greatly form then taking a page out of Freed's book of spells quite literally is not only reasonable but simple. The red lightning I agree bs, namnka power, POF, plot-sword whatever you want to call it, but Laxus had that fight won the minute he cast the barrier which was perfectly legite. Give credit where it is due, Whal gave Laxus a good fight he lost.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I wouldn't say struggling. Wahl was getting knocked around that's why he had to tranform. He hit Laxus a good amount of times, but right after hitting Laxus, Laxus comes back. It was a real fight. To me that means Wahl did not have enough power in his current state and had to stop playing around and get serious. He mentioned something about Laxus possibly pulling the rug on him if it kept up that way. So before the particles took effect, it was a close fight, possibly favoring Laxus by a little.

I guess we just disagree then. I can see your point in Chapter 473 that Laxus was only pushed to his limits when the illness kicked in. However, in Chapter 472, Laxus was thrashed around quite a bit.

I'm saying that red lightning is superior to his normal lightning, in a way I am not sure of, but that's the implication. If I was to give you a reason to validate it that would be nothing more than a guess. In terms of magic though there are instances where one particular magic type can be advanced to be on a different level (e.g Brandish' magic is called an advanced level of transformation magic by Erza; I would think Ajeel's sand magic is an advanced level of the same magic Max uses; FDK spells are an advanced/higher level of fire dragon slayer spells for Natsu). Again I am assuming that this is what red lightning is, and that Wahl's defences couldn't take this advanced level of lightning (well he couldn't analyse it). If something is added to the lightning to make it different then my points become null and void.

I don't think there is a legit argument that Wahl > Laxus based on their fight, unless we're talking Etherion which I think gets Wahl in the conversation. I don't mind if they're rated the same but really Laxus has shown enough now to be considered above the likes of Ajeel, God Serena and Wahl.

I actually like Erza, Gray and Lucy so I probably wouldn't go out of my way to discredit their feats.

Laxus used thought projections in the Fighting Festival arc when he was outlining the rules to Makarov and co at the beauty contest iirc. I don't think thought projections are hard to make, although the one Jellal made he invested a fair bit of MP into.

I know what you're saying along with everybody else. The question here is do you understand it? It seems you already answered that in your post but one has to admit that this is not the kind of fight you projected. There was some Nakama Power. Advanced level of power doesn't really mean much. If the person is immune, then it doesn't really matter. Silver was immune to Tartaros Gray's Ice. DeS Gray was immune to Mard Geer's Momento Mori or more like the curses in which he can absorb it. There are plenty of examples.

I never argued that Wahl can definitely beat Laxus. All I'm saying is that it is possible. I can see people avoiding my points because we all know the chapter was a little bit messy. There are even youtube video reactions and other posts on forums that back this up. We just simply can't deny the facts.

You're right. Laxus did use thought projections. I forgot that part but either way, it is questionable whether Laxus learned thought projections from another wizard so I don't see the comparison here.

This statement is just wrong every point you is countered by the manga itself. Evergreen learned to rewirte a selected part of Freed runes before the first time-skip just by being around him, Laxus should have the same base to draw from.

Re-writing a spell and learning Jutsu Shiki are totally different. That is like saying re-arranging something is the same as creating it or essentially nullifying Freed's magic barrier is the same as creating a magic barrier.

We have Brain flat out say that he taught Jellal self-destruction magic(rune based) as well as other which we know have to include at least four different elements since he used abyss brake in addition to heavenly body magic, plus he was able to imitate Mystogan well enough to foul about 90% of the guild at the GMGs.

I will acknowledge your point about Brain teaching Jellal but how long was that? It could have been over a long period of time which is exactly my point. You cannot compare Jellal and Mystogan because Mystogan didn't teach Jellal his magic. Jellal has Heavenly Body Magic which incorporates almost all elements including Air Magic which is why he can use Mystogan's attack because that is what he uses.

Everyone in Oración Seis learned a secondary magic one being the same as Zero's the arc is canon. Also what episode are you talking about?

I'm not saying you cannot learn a secondary magic. However, secondary magics are usually seen in the manga and anime if it is related to the user's own magic type. If it is a brand new magic, it should take more than a year. The non-canon episode I was referring to isn't actually part of the Anime. It was an Omake or a Bonus Episode that is purely for entertainment purposes which is not canon.

One year is actually a very long time in Fairy tail, http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline july 2 x784-december 15 the same year is everything from lucy showing up to the first timeskip the GMGs to the second major time skip is only about two months more a year.

Sure. One year might be a long time. Name one instance during that whole year where a character learned a brand new type of magic that is not even remotely related to their own.

You cite Gery working his entire childhood to learn Ice magic, that just wrong the attack, his training, and his joining the guild all happened in the same year X774.

No, just because Ur died and left Gray, it does not mean that he was proficient in Ice-Make Magic. Actually, you can see Gray frustrated because he failed at many attacks. Laxus casting a strong Jutsu Shiki is different from casting a fail one. If he failed, then you would have a point. He had a lot to learn afterwards which is why he joined Fairy Tail and went on missions.

Just about every attack spell that Wendy knows was learned by mimicking Natsu she was only in the guild 3-4 months. Wendy learned two spells she could barely read in a week, if Laxus has the basic knowledge for rune magic that is greatly form then taking a page out of Freed's book of spells quite literally is not only reasonable but simple. Give credit where it is due, Whal gave Laxus a good fight he lost.

Learning to control your powers is very different from learning whole different type of magic. There are plenty of characters who have more than one but the point still stands, just how long does it take? The two spells Wendy learned are the same type of magic as the one she uses which is Sky Dragon Slaying Magic. I've already stated this numerous times. That is why Gray was able to achieve Ice Devil Slaying Magic in one year. Next time, before you say all my points are wrong, make sure you have accurate evidence and information. I give credit where it is necessary. Apparently, this does not seem to be the case.

 

[Brandish μ]

I guess we just disagree then. I can see your point in Chapter 473 that Laxus was only pushed to his limits when the illness kicked in. However, in Chapter 472, Laxus was thrashed around quite a bit.

I know what you're saying along with everybody else. The question here is do you understand it? It seems you already answered that in your post but one has to admit that this is not the kind of fight you projected. There was some Nakama Power. Advanced level of power doesn't really mean much. If the person is immune, then it doesn't really matter. Silver was immune to Tartaros Gray's Ice. DeS Gray was immune to Mard Geer's Momento Mori or more like the curses in which he can absorb it. There are plenty of examples.

I never argued that Wahl can definitely beat Laxus. All I'm saying is that it is possible. I can see people avoiding my points because we all know the chapter was a little bit messy. There are even youtube video reactions and other posts on forums that back this up. We just simply can't deny the facts.

You're right. Laxus did use thought projections. I forgot that part but either way, it is questionable whether Laxus learned thought projections from another wizard so I don't see the comparison here.

You're kinda asking the impossible here. I don't know exactly why Laxus lightning went red and why Wahl couldn't analyse it. What I am assuming is that this is an advanced form of lightning magic, and for some reason it is red and above normal lightning. The manga states it's lighting that is superior to lightning. I outlined 3 ways a set of magic is shown to be or possibly could be advanced, and I see Raiko as no different. I feel if the lightning wasn't red and stayed yellow (but just be much stronger) things would be much easier to understand, but Mashima unfortunately has left a wide range of interpretation for RL, and I'm just telling you mine.

Wahl's resistance doesn't necessarily have to work like a slayers. It's clear Laxus' normal lightning didn't work, while the red lightning did. I am connecting the dots as the manga shows it, and trying to come up with the 'how'. To say RL shouldn't work after the fact that it did seems illogical. What I can understand is the disbelief of it all, and I can see why people would hate the way it went down. But it did happen.

Whether Laxus learned runes/thought projects/FL from another wizard or read it in a book is irrelevant to me. If they can use the magic, it is there's. The only magic Laxus should really be called out for being a phony for is Lightning Dragon Slayer magic, because a Lacrima allows him to use that. The spells he casts with it are under his own power, so it's still credited to him (though learning how to use DS magic isn't).

 

[Firepower]

@XXEliteXXAceXX We may disagree, but I'm right. In chapter 472 they both hit each other, both had big eyes when getting hit, both just fine. When Laxus was hit hard and went through several houses, he stopped himself from smashing further into houses and instantly kicked Wahl down from the roof of a house, past all the floors and hit the ground, he did so in a flashy fashion doing forward flips to build up the momentum of his kick. It was very even. But it was Wahl who took about the same amount of hits or maybe a few more. Exactly what do you mean by thrashed around? This is not a prediction. The fight we saw, and it was about even. But it looked like Wahl got tossed around one or two more times. No argument here. It's just that you have the wrong information. Therefore I'm right.

 

[Holt]

@XXEliteXXAceXX
What are you basing this 'it should be more than a year' on? Where's the manga panels that suggest it should definitely take that long? Individual skill has to come into play here. A kid who is basically just learning the ropes in magic cannot possibly grasp something as quickly as someone who has already mastered and advanced spell like fairy law as well as different types of Magic seperate from his main. Laxus' thought projection and organic link have nothing to do with lightning which is his original magic. Yes he used the link in conjunction with his lightning but that doesn't automatically make it related to lightning.
Would you say August needs the same amount of time to learn a spell compared to Gray for example? The latter has prior experience with learning seperate magic. Same with Laxus. This is not the first non-related lightning spell he's used and we saw from the other spells that he can use them flawlessly and he also had Freed teach him as well. Why should it take a year to learn a spell? Besides, Laxus could've actually worked or studied jutsu Shiki all these years that he's been with the thunder tribe. At least he had prior knowledge of jutsu Shiki and definitely understood how it works. It's not like he used a year to learn a spell he had no prior knowledge of. Also, magic has been taught in far lesser time to be honest. When Zeref taught the fairy tail founders, it was a couple of days iirc. Sure they didn't become masters in that short time, but they learnt enough and Zeref complemented them. They even had to learn this without being able to go too close to Zeref. Imagine if they had a year to stay with Zeref then. That shows that magic can be learnt in a short period of time, at least grasping the basics of it and Laxus like I've said can use other spells, had prior knowledge of jutsu Shiki from working with freed all those years and had freed to teach him.

 

[BluePegasus]

You forgot about hibiki lates he could totally beat
laxus also. You have been posting negative things
about laxus for seemingly forever. Why are you so
angry at laxus..... he
stood up to hades, better then all of team natsu,
beat a guild in raven tail, beat jura of the wizard
saints, beat tempsta twice......i know you are going to
say and i don't care, because the anime gave laxus vs
tempsta grat animation and it was the best fight in tartorus
and alot of people agree, it already has over 200000 views
on youtube thatshould say something and read the comments,
10 percent are haters but the rest loved the fight and its one of their
favourite tartorus fights and he beat wahl ru icht on his
own with a spell he learnt from freed, by your logic all natsus fights
are igneels wins and all grays fights are urs wins can you see
how that sounds?

For the last time, I've nothing against Laxus. I'm just saying that the Spriggan Twelve are the strongest mages there are and that Laxus isn't above Spriggan tier. I don't care about Laxus vs. Tempesta. That fight only shows that Gray is really strong since he one shotted Tempesta (I'm not saying Gray is stronger than Laxus, he isn't).

By your logic, Laxus can defeat Acnologia.

 

[Holt]

As for red lightning, well, afaik, there's no one completely immune to an element. The DS for example will take harm from other Slayer types using the same element. I think the idea is that the would normally be immune to 'regular' element attacks. Any slayer type magic is already special in some way. So even though Gray's ice couldn't work on Silver, a DS or GS ice user would be able to.
As I understood red lightning, it wasn't just a more powerful form of lightning (though that much is apparent) but it's special in some way. One might argue that lightning DS magic should also be special but we have precedence when special magic didn't work for some reason. When Natsu fought zancrow, his DS spells were ineffective but we know that's not a general issue. Also, there's no real way to ascertain that Laxus used DS magic against Wahl. He was probably just using lightning magic all along. Even when he fought Fairy Tail, he didn't reveal/use his lightning DS magic until the end when he faced Natsu and Gajeel.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2016 ---

For the last time, I've nothing against Laxus. I'm just saying that the Spriggan Twelve are the strongest mages there are and that Laxus isn't above Spriggan tier. I don't care about Laxus vs. Tempesta. That fight only shows that Gray is really strong since he one shotted Tempesta (I'm not saying Gray is stronger than Laxus, he isn't).

By your logic, Laxus can defeat Acnologia.

He defeated a spriggan 12 singlehandedly. That makes him spriggan tier. I think the problem is that you're basing too much credence on words. For instance, the wizard saints are said to be the strongest mages in ishgar. Jura rose to 5th, basically the highest spot, directly behind the gods of ishgar. Laxus wasn't a wizard Saint at the time but defeated Jura. One can't still say Jura is the 5th strongest Mage in ishgar when he lost to another one and even though Laxus isn't listed as a WS, one can say he's stronger than most of them. He's basically on or above wizard Saint level. If you still disagree that simply means you choose to ignore manga panels and feats directly contradicting these statements. If some swore to you that a book was white and you can see with your very eyes that's it's black, would you still say it's white? It doesn't matter who said it prior, the fact it that you have evidence that directly contradicts the book being white even if it was stated as a law.

 

[Brandish μ]

I don't think Laxus used a single dragon slayer spell against Wahl, or post-skip actually.

Red lightning will become clear when or IF Laxus uses it again.

I can imagine the uproar if there is red lightning dragon slayer magic

 

[Firepower]

For the last time, I've nothing against Laxus. I'm just saying that the Spriggan Twelve are the strongest mages there are and that Laxus isn't above Spriggan tier. I don't care about Laxus vs. Tempesta. That fight only shows that Gray is really strong since he one shotted Tempesta (I'm not saying Gray is stronger than Laxus, he isn't).

By your logic, Laxus can defeat Acnologia.

By being stronger than a spriggan, how is that saying Laxus would be even close to Acnologia? August the strongest spriggan was helpless against Acnologia. He couldn't even keep up with Acno's speed to protect Serena. Even Zeref, can't beat Acno, without Mavis's infinite power. Acnologia is #1, and Zeref is #2, but that doesn't mean they are close in strength, nor does it mean beating a spriggan makes them remotely close to Acnologia. The spriggan all combined would be fodder to Acnologia. None of the three spriggan could even get their guard up to defend the attack. They didn't even know what happened until it was over. Acnologia might not have used any magic to kill Serena. He might not have even used his full speed. He definitely wasn't using his full physical strength, from the way he casually went through Serena. The way Ishgar mages are taking care of many weak foot soldiers, might be the same way Acnologia is toward spriggans. No exaggeration.

 

[Kiki]

I'm just saying that the Spriggan Twelve are the strongest mages there are and that Laxus isn't above Spriggan tier.

I have been watching over you all this time. Why do you always say this? As we know, even in this world, our world, nothing is impossible. If we recall the previous way Mashima portrayed the opponents for main characters, which they are always in group, he looked overexaggerating in portraying them. For example:

1. Elemental Four + Gajeel Redfox: IIRC Mashima portrayed them as "invincible" foes via Mirajane (I kinda forgot). But in fact they were defeated.
2. Oracion Seis (The Six Prayers): once again Mashima portrayed them as "invincible" foes via Mirajane and Lucy was seen trembling. Lucy: "Scary.. even they consist of six people, they can lead their subordinate guilds?!". But in fact they were defeated.
3. Grimoire Heart with their "Seven Kins of Purgatory": via that doggy guy (I forgot his name. He is Gajeel's opponent), Mashima again portrayed them as "invincible" foes by stating "Master Hades' personal guards are coming. This guild (FT) is over gehahaha" and Erza and Juvia were seen shuddering. But in fact they were defeated.
4. Tartaros with their "Nine Demon Gates of Zeref's books": Mashima portrayed them via Lamy by stating "Fairy Tail.. Humans.. are already over" in Hell's Core as if there is no way to defeat Tartaros. But in fact in the end they were defeated.
5. And the last, Spriggan 12: Mashima portrayed them as "invincible" foes via Brandish by stating "There are 11 mages more. Just give up already, Fairy Tail.."

The statement doesn't mean Spriggan 12 are invincible and there is no mage in Ishgar can defeat one of them. Deeming them as the most powerful opponents means this is final arc and I don't want this arc to be final arc. After this arc (if this is not the final arc), I believe there will be opponents that are stronger than Spriggan 12.

 

[BluePegasus]

By being stronger than a spriggan, how is that saying Laxus would be even close to Acnologia? August the strongest spriggan was helpless against Acnologia. He couldn't even keep up with Acno's speed to protect Serena. Even Zeref, can't beat Acno, without Mavis's infinite power. Acnologia is #1, and Zeref is #2, but that doesn't mean they are close in strength, nor does it mean beating a spriggan makes them remotely close to Acnologia. The spriggan all combined would be fodder to Acnologia. None of the three spriggan could even get their guard up to defend the attack. They didn't even know what happened until it was over. Acnologia might not have used any magic to kill Serena. He might not have even used his full speed. He definitely wasn't using his full physical strength, from the way he casually went through Serena. The way Ishgar mages are taking care of many weak foot soldiers, might be the same way Acnologia is toward spriggans. No exaggeration.

Well, since a lot of people say that Laxus is above Spriggan tier, he must be close at Acnologia/Zeref tier since they're the only one standing above Spriggans. So by this logic it's Zeref, Acnologia and Laxus who are the strongest in the Fairy Tail universe. No, just no. Laxus can be at Spriggan level, but he isn't stronger. Laxus defeated Wahl, but I can't see him defeating Di Maria or Brandish. If he defeated one Spriggan, it doesn't mean he is stronger than all Spriggans. That's the same with the Gods of Ishgar.

 

[Firepower]

Well, since a lot of people say that Laxus is above Spriggan tier, he must be close at Acnologia/Zeref tier since they're the only one standing above Spriggans. So by this logic it's Zeref, Acnologia and Laxus who are the strongest in the Fairy Tail universe. No, just no. Laxus can be at Spriggan level, but he isn't stronger. Laxus defeated Wahl, but I can't see him defeating Di Maria or Brandish. If he defeated one Spriggan, it doesn't mean he is stronger than all Spriggans. That's the same with the Gods of Ishgar.

Very true that beating one spriggan doesn't mean he beats them all. No denying Laxus has spriggan level magic power, though. Secondly whoever is third strongest whether it be Laxus or not makes no difference. Whoever is third could be steps ahead of everyone, yet still miles away from Zeref, and a distance far greater than that to Acnologia. The order they are in means little, because their is a huge gap in power when compared to Acnologia. In fact, if August is the third strongest, he is still too weak compared to Zeref. This is not Natsu, Gray, and Gajeel, we are talking about. Those three are so close in power it almost doesn't matter. When talking about Zeref or Acnologia no one has a chance, not in their current state.

Knowing who is stronger is the first step. Knowing how much stronger is the next. Being third strongest doesn't always mean they are close to the one ahead of them. A gap in strength could be a millimeter, or sometimes miles, regardless of how close they are to one another in power ranking.

 

[BluePegasus]

I have been watching over you all this time. Why do you always say this? As we know, even in this world, our world, nothing is impossible. If we recall the previous way Mashima portrayed the opponents for main characters, which they are always in group, he looked overexaggerating in portraying them. For example:

1. Elemental Four + Gajeel Redfox: IIRC Mashima portrayed them as "invincible" foes via Mirajane (I kinda forgot). But in fact they were defeated.
2. Oracion Seis (The Six Prayers): once again Mashima portrayed them as "invincible" foes via Mirajane and Lucy was seen trembling. Lucy: "Scary.. even they consist of six people, they can lead their subordinate guilds?!". But in fact they were defeated.
3. Grimoire Heart with their "Seven Kins of Purgatory": via that doggy guy (I forgot his name. He is Gajeel's opponent), Mashima again portrayed them as "invincible" foes by stating "Master Hades' personal guards are coming. This guild (FT) is over gehahaha" and Erza and Juvia were seen shuddering. But in fact they were defeated.
4. Tartaros with their "Nine Demon Gates of Zeref's books": Mashima portrayed them via Lamy by stating "Fairy Tail.. Humans.. are already over" in Hell's Core as if there is no way to defeat Tartaros. But in fact in the end they were defeated.
5. And the last, Spriggan 12: Mashima portrayed them as "invincible" foes via Brandish by stating "There are 11 mages more. Just give up already, Fairy Tail.."

The statement doesn't mean Spriggan 12 are invincible and there is no mage in Ishgar can defeat one of them. Deeming them as the most powerful opponents means this is final arc and I don't want this arc to be final arc. After this arc (if this is not the final arc), I believe there will be opponents that are stronger than Spriggan 12.

It's true that a lot of enemies were portrayed as really powerful. But it's different with the Spriggan Twelve. Fairy Tail became a lot stronger in the years that have passed by. In the beginning, it was difficult for them to defeat opponents as Eisenwald and Phantom Lord. Later, they defeated the Balam Allience who are the strongest Dark Guilds in Ishgar. And then, they became the strongest guild from Ishgar. Now they're up against the strongest mages in the world. They're different. There are no mages who are stronger than them, expect Zeref. If Fairy Tail manage to defeat them, they've reached the top. Fairy Tail may be the strongest from Ishgar, but not from the whole world. Not yet.

I think this is the last arc, even if I don't want Fairy Tail to end

 

[Firepower]

It's true that a lot of enemies were portrayed as really powerful. But it's different with the Spriggan Twelve. Fairy Tail became a lot stronger in the years that have passed by. In the beginning, it was difficult for them to defeat opponents as Eisenwald and Phantom Lord. Later, they defeated the Balam Allience who are the strongest Dark Guilds in Ishgar. And then, they became the strongest guild from Ishgar. Now they're up against the strongest mages in the world. They're different. There are no mages who are stronger than them, expect Zeref. If Fairy Tail manage to defeat them, they've reached the top. Fairy Tail may be the strongest from Ishgar, but not from the whole world. Not yet.

I think this is the last arc, even if I don't want Fairy Tail to end

Where did you come up with that? "The spriggan are the strongest mages in all the world?" That was never stated. Isn't Fiore a small country on that continent? Alvarez is overseas. There's still a lot of unexplored land. Check the fairy tail map. Sure Bosco got taken out by three spriggan, but that doesn't mean the spriggan are the superior to everyone. Who knows, maybe Bosco has some powerful mages that weren't there during the spriggan attack.

I'm not trying to pick on you. It's just that you are making up a lot of stuff, and misunderstanding the story. Honestly we all need fresh air and outside time. Not just hide in the house away from real life possibilities. It's not always what you can dish out, but how much you can take, and how fast you get up when you fall. It's a part of life everyone goes through every now and then, regardless of intelligence, statius, money, looks or anything. Most of the time during moments we feel nervous or intimidated, RIGGT AT THAT MOMENT, listen to what you are telling yourself inside your head, and stop that habit of abusing yourself. Most of the time it's insecurity, lacking confidence, and dwelling on past pain or the possibility of future pain. That's why you're supposed to live in the moment, the present. Live each day like its the last. Everyone goes through these things throughout their lives. No exception for anyone. Every human being goes through this. It how you feel about yourself that matters most, and pay attention to how it changes the moment something or someone happens. Don't be afraid to get out there, fall and get dirty. No one has a perfect life. Everyone has to deal with jerks, and their own problems. No risk no reward. Sometimes we have to take a leap of faith. That goes for everyone.

 

[Libarian]

@ XXEliteXXAceXX

You know what I apologize every point you made is not wrong every character has unrealistic feats at one point in the story and Dual elements essentially being not a new type of magic. is credible. However, I may need to better incorporate my evidence so here is something a little more detailed.

"Re-writing a spell and learning Jutsu Shiki are totally different. That is like saying re-arranging something is the same as creating it or essentially nullifying Freed's magic barrier is the same as creating a magic barrier."
No, you are overgeneralizing, to re-write something like creating loophole for yourself while leaving it intact actually requires a decent base knowledge of what is being overwritten. Evergreen credits her time with Freed, Laxus has the same arguably even larger base to draw from. It is a situation akin to being in another country, surround by a language you recognize patterns and symbols far greater. It is also far easier to learn something if the teach presents it in a manner conducive to your thinking and puts in the time to explain things. You keep saying that a year is not enough, they have been working together far longer then that Freed is one of Laxus's best friends to start from square one like you seem so set on is to surest that Laxus never paid any mind to his friend's magic, that seems absurd.
Here is the definition of the spell from Fairy Tail wiki:
Jutsu Shiki is a form of Letter Magic in which the user is able to create barriers in certain areas by surrounding it with Magic Runes. Those who step inside these runes will be trapped and forced to obey the rules that the user set up beforehand. These rules range from age or time limits, to tasks that must be completed, such as defeating others within the spells boundaries. Due to the nature of this Magic, it is more suited for trapping rather than for direct combat. In addition, it also takes a significant amount of time to cast.[4] The spells Freed Justine uses can be erased by rewriting them.[5]
"Jutsu Shiki" (術式) is Japanese for technique formula.
It is magic of symbols in layers of encoding to produce an effect in accordence with formulars you figure out the symbols and formula and you can modify, concel, or reproduce the spell depending on memory
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/116/3
You keep saying that a year is not enough time to learn to an new magic, and the nature of the magic lends it self to your stance, it would be like a someone just learned thier scales to try and be a composer for the Phil Harmonic, but if a composer gives someone who knows their scales a sheet of music then they should be able to play it. The same thing here, a Jutsu Shiki, this Jutsu Shiki, one of your spells
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/473/12
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/473/13
Libarian said: ↑

We have Brain flat out say that he taught Jellal self-destruction magic(rune based) as well as other which we know have to include at least four different elements since he used abyss brake in addition to heavenly body magic, plus he was able to imitate Mystogan well enough to foul about 90% of the guild at the GMGs.

"I will acknowledge your point about Brain teaching Jellal but how long was that? It could have been over a long period of time which is exactly my point. You cannot compare Jellal and Mystogan because Mystogan didn't teach Jellal his magic. Jellal has Heavenly Body Magic which incorporates almost all elements including Air Magic which is why he can use Mystogan's attack because that is what he uses."
First off the episode Brain teach him he demostraights the once Jellel reproduces it immediately Brain is slack jaw so it could not have been long. Secondly, where does it say that Heavenly body Magic incorporates all elements? http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Heavenly_Body_Magic Abyss Break does but by your standards it shouldn't exist since Jellal has no bridge between elements Libarian said: ↑

Everyone in Oración Seis learned a secondary magic one being the same as Zero's the arc is canon. Also what episode are you talking about?

"I'm not saying you cannot learn a secondary magic. However, secondary magics are usually seen in the manga and anime if it is related to the user's own magic type. If it is a brand new magic, it should take more than a year. The non-canon episode I was referring to isn't actually part of the Anime. It was an Omake or a Bonus Episode that is purely for entertainment purposes which is not canon."

First off do not cite Omakes as evidence as they by definition purely for entertainment purposes which is not canon. By the way the question still stands it sounds amusing. Secondly, Midnight's darkness is related to his reflector in what way

Libarian said: ↑

One year is actually a very long time in Fairy tail, http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline july 2 x784-december 15 the same year is everything from lucy showing up to the first time skip the GMGs to the second major time skip is only about two months more a year.

"Sure. One year might be a long time. Name one instance during that whole year where a character learned a brand new type of magic that is not even remotely related to their own."
you are asking the impossible here Fairy tail focuses on for the most part. Our point of veiw is limited, since you are the one claiming an impossibility cite one instance where it says that a year isn't enough in fact the only instances that I remember are characters that exceed expectation in learning new things.
Libarian said: ↑

You cite Gery working his entire childhood to learn Ice magic, that just wrong the attack, his training, and his joining the guild all happened in the same year X774.

No, just because Ur died and left Gray, it does not mean that he was proficient in Ice-Make Magic. Actually, you can see Gray frustrated because he failed at many attacks. Laxus casting a strong Jutsu Shiki is different from casting a fail one. If he failed, then you would have a point. He had a lot to learn afterwards which is why he joined Fairy Tail and went on missions.
You said "learn" not master my point is Grey learned ice make in less then a year from no known previous exposure to the concepts of magic, Ice trial shows that he learn the basics enough to use it in battle,
Libarian said: ↑

Just about every attack spell that Wendy knows was learned by mimicking Natsu she was only in the guild 3-4 months. Wendy learned two spells she could barely read in a week, if Laxus has the basic knowledge for rune magic that is greatly form then taking a page out of Freed's book of spells quite literally is not only reasonable but simple. Give credit where it is due, Whal gave Laxus a good fight he lost.

Learning to control your powers is very different from learning whole different type of magic. There are plenty of characters who have more than one but the point still stands, just how long does it take? The two spells Wendy learned are the same type of magic as the one she uses which is Sky Dragon Slaying Magic. I've already stated this numerous times. That is why Gray was able to achieve Ice Devil Slaying Magic in one year. Next time, before you say all my points are wrong, make sure you have accurate evidence and information. I give credit where it is necessary. Apparently, this does not seem to be the case.
You have missed my point or chose to ignore it , Laxus should have a basic knowledge of the spell from hanging around Freed, because pattern recondition is a cornerstone of the learning process and the nature of the spell itself is pattern based, as long as a base exist incorporating concepts with in the same scope is as simple as Wendy did with those two spells

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

@XXEliteXXAceXX We may disagree, but I'm right. In chapter 472 they both hit each other, both had big eyes when getting hit, both just fine. When Laxus was hit hard and went through several houses, he stopped himself from smashing further into houses and instantly kicked Wahl down from the roof of a house, past all the floors and hit the ground, he did so in a flashy fashion doing forward flips to build up the momentum of his kick. It was very even. But it was Wahl who took about the same amount of hits or maybe a few more. Exactly what do you mean by thrashed around? This is not a prediction. The fight we saw, and it was about even. But it looked like Wahl got tossed around one or two more times. No argument here. It's just that you have the wrong information. Therefore I'm right.

You said that the battle favored Laxus a little and now say that it was even? Where do you stand? I don't see how you can say you're correct when this was a very hard fight for Laxus. Which is why I said he was struggling. Unless you think Laxus defeated Wahl with Easy Difficulty...

@XXEliteXXAceXX
What are you basing this 'it should be more than a year' on? Where's the manga panels that suggest it should definitely take that long? Individual skill has to come into play here. A kid who is basically just learning the ropes in magic cannot possibly grasp something as quickly as someone who has already mastered and advanced spell like fairy law as well as different types of Magic seperate from his main. Laxus' thought projection and organic link have nothing to do with lightning which is his original magic. Yes he used the link in conjunction with his lightning but that doesn't automatically make it related to lightning.

I am not saying that it definitely has to be more than a year. You're focusing on the wrong ideas. All I'm asking for is a logical explanation because apparently you claim that it makes sense. You cannot use Fairy Law as a comparison because I already explained to you that anybody in Fairy Tail can use it. It is not exclusive to anybody except anyone who is not in Fairy Tail. If you paid attention to the description of the magic itself, you know that it obliterates anybody that Fairy Tail deems as a threat; hence, it is available to all FT members. Fine, Organic Link Magic and Thought Projections are not related to lightning? How long did it take for Laxus to be able to use it? I keep repeating the same questions for a reason. We have no proof. So you can't use these feats.

Would you say August needs the same amount of time to learn a spell compared to Gray for example? The latter has prior experience with learning seperate magic. Same with Laxus. This is not the first non-related lightning spell he's used and we saw from the other spells that he can use them flawlessly and he also had Freed teach him as well. Why should it take a year to learn a spell? Besides, Laxus could've actually worked or studied jutsu Shiki all these years that he's been with the thunder tribe. At least he had prior knowledge of jutsu Shiki and definitely understood how it works. It's not like he used a year to learn a spell he had no prior knowledge of. Also, magic has been taught in far lesser time to be honest. When Zeref taught the fairy tail founders, it was a couple of days iirc. Sure they didn't become masters in that short time, but they learnt enough and Zeref complemented them. They even had to learn this without being able to go too close to Zeref. Imagine if they had a year to stay with Zeref then. That shows that magic can be learnt in a short period of time, at least grasping the basics of it and Laxus like I've said can use other spells, had prior knowledge of jutsu Shiki from working with freed all those years and had freed to teach him.

We cannot say who would need more time to learn a spell even if it was August and Gray because it can also depend on what type of magic. Your idea that since August is the King of Magic and so he learns magic at a faster pace than anybody else is faulty logic. Plus, that would be part-speculation with little evidence. Going by your example, Gray may learn Ice Attacks a lot faster than August because he uses Ice as his main element so it only makes sense that he picks it up faster than August who has such a broad knowledge.

Laxus never associated himself with Jutsu Shiki. That is all lies in just trying to prove your point. If Laxus really had knowledge about Jutsu Shiki, he wouldn't be so angry at Freed for suggesting to end the Battle of Fairy Tail. What I mean is that Laxus needed Freed's magic to put up a magical barrier around Magnolia so nobody like Reedus can escape. If Laxus could a magic barrier himself, then Freed wouldn't be necessary in his plans.It is obvious from the start of the series that each character was given their own special abilities which is what makes them their own person. Knowing this, what makes you think Laxus can cast a form of Jutsu Shiki let alone of that magnitude?

I don't know if Zeref actually taught Precht, Yury, Warrod, and Zera their magic... I mean he might of taught them how to control their magical energy and release it. But the problem here lies in that Zeref does not know Lightning Magic, Green/Tree Magic, etc. Zeref is just a Black Arts Magic type user not Elemental Magic. Now if it is true that Zeref simply taught Fairy Tail's Founders how to unleash their magic within and just use magic attacks, then that wouldn't be significant because Capricorn did the same to Lucy. Did he teach her Celestial Magic? No.

We'll just leave this discussion at this. You can have the last word because I apparently can't convince anyone of the obvious discrepancy. I just hope Cana gets Crash Magic from Gildarts and destroys a Spriggan in one-hit.

 

[Firepower]

You said that the battle favored Laxus a little and now say that it was even? Where do you stand? I don't see how you can say you're correct when this was a very hard fight for Laxus. Which is why I said he was struggling. Unless you think Laxus defeated Wahl with Easy Difficulty...


I am not saying that it definitely has to be more than a year. You're focusing on the wrong ideas. All I'm asking for is a logical explanation because apparently you claim that it makes sense. You cannot use Fairy Law as a comparison because I already explained to you that anybody in Fairy Tail can use it. It is not exclusive to anybody except anyone who is not in Fairy Tail. If you paid attention to the description of the magic itself, you know that it obliterates anybody that Fairy Tail deems as a threat; hence, it is available to all FT members. Fine, Organic Link Magic and Thought Projections are not related to lightning? How long did it take for Laxus to be able to use it? I keep repeating the same questions for a reason. We have no proof. So you can't use these feats.


We cannot say who would need more time to learn a spell even if it was August and Gray because it can also depend on what type of magic. Your idea that since August is the King of Magic and so he learns magic at a faster pace than anybody else is faulty logic. Plus, that would be part-speculation with little evidence. Going by your example, Gray may learn Ice Attacks a lot faster than August because he uses Ice as his main element so it only makes sense that he picks it up faster than August who has such a broad knowledge.

Laxus never associated himself with Jutsu Shiki. That is all lies in just trying to prove your point. If Laxus really had knowledge about Jutsu Shiki, he wouldn't be so angry at Freed for suggesting to end the Battle of Fairy Tail. What I mean is that Laxus needed Freed's magic to put up a magical barrier around Magnolia so nobody like Reedus can escape. If Laxus could a magic barrier himself, then Freed wouldn't be necessary in his plans.It is obvious from the start of the series that each character was given their own special abilities which is what makes them their own person. Knowing this, what makes you think Laxus can cast a form of Jutsu Shiki let alone of that magnitude?

I don't know if Zeref actually taught Precht, Yury, Warrod, and Zera their magic... I mean he might of taught them how to control their magical energy and release it. But the problem here lies in that Zeref does not know Lightning Magic, Green/Tree Magic, etc. Zeref is just a Black Arts Magic type user not Elemental Magic. Now if it is true that Zeref simply taught Fairy Tail's Founders how to unleash their magic within and just use magic attacks, then that wouldn't be significant because Capricorn did the same to Lucy. Did he teach her Celestial Magic? No.

We'll just leave this discussion at this. You can have the last word because I apparently can't convince anyone of the obvious discrepancy. I just hope Cana gets Crash Magic from Gildarts and destroys a Spriggan in one-hit.

You said we disagree because you claimed Laxus was getting thrashed around a bit in chapter 472. In comment 139 you said Laxus was struggling. I went back to read the chapter to confirm. What I said was that in chapter 472 it was about even, and if anything Laxus got a few more hits in. In simple terms it was a tie, or a little advantage for Laxus. It's that simple. Is that hard to understand? I'm saying it was a close fight in chapter 472, where you said Laxus was struggling before the particles took effect, which is NOT TRUE!!! Not everything has to be theories or speculation if there's real proof to back it up.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2016 ---

Neither one of them in that chapter were struggling to get up, and both came back easily and countered each other. It was very even, but if you want to go by score cards or a bit detailed Laxus landed a few more shots. You're only prolonging your error.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

@ XXEliteXXAceXX
You know what I apologize every point you made is not wrong every character has unrealistic feats at one point in the story and Dual elements essentially being not a new type of magic. is credible. However, I may need to better incorporate my evidence so here is something a little more detailed.

Don't worry about it, I know you didn't mean it. You're one of the few that I've actually seen apologize so thank you. I've said to others in the past nobody is perfect so we all have some errors in our posts including me. However, I tend to refrain from saying that someone is wrong unless I am being constantly targeted which rarely happens but it can.

No, you are overgeneralizing, to re-write something like creating loophole for yourself while leaving it intact actually requires a decent base knowledge of what is being overwritten. Evergreen credits her time with Freed, Laxus has the same arguably even larger base to draw from. It is a situation akin to being in another country, surround by a language you recognize patterns and symbols far greater. It is also far easier to learn something if the teach presents it in a manner conducive to your thinking and puts in the time to explain things. You keep saying that a year is not enough, they have been working together far longer then that Freed is one of Laxus's best friends to start from square one like you seem so set on is to surest that Laxus never paid any mind to his friend's magic, that seems absurd.
Here is the definition of the spell from Fairy Tail wiki:
Jutsu Shiki is a form of Letter Magic in which the user is able to create barriers in certain areas by surrounding it with Magic Runes. Those who step inside these runes will be trapped and forced to obey the rules that the user set up beforehand. These rules range from age or time limits, to tasks that must be completed, such as defeating others within the spells boundaries. Due to the nature of this Magic, it is more suited for trapping rather than for direct combat. In addition, it also takes a significant amount of time to cast.[4] The spells Freed Justine uses can be erased by rewriting them.[5]
"Jutsu Shiki" (術式) is Japanese for technique formula.
It is magic of symbols in layers of encoding to produce an effect in accordence with formulars you figure out the symbols and formula and you can modify, concel, or reproduce the spell depending on memory
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/116/3

You may be right that re-writing something means that you have to have knowledge prior to doing it. That we can agree. The problem with this situation is that as you can see, Levy was able to take Freed's barrier down, yet I don't think she can actually create a Jutsu Shiki. A better example for this is like a computer program. Let's say I am able to overwrite a program using computer codes, but would I be able to create one myself? Similarly, a hacker may know how to hack and change something but could they create a whole network themselves? Probably not although it is possible.

You keep saying that a year is not enough time to learn to an new magic, and the nature of the magic lends it self to your stance, it would be like a someone just learned thier scales to try and be a composer for the Phil Harmonic, but if a composer gives someone who knows their scales a sheet of music then they should be able to play it. The same thing here, a Jutsu Shiki, this Jutsu Shiki, one of your spells
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/473/12
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/473/13

I acknowledge that this is one of my weak points. I have no evidence to prove that it takes quite a long time to learn new magic types. But, the one thing I can refer to is the whole timeline in the series itself to which we haven't seen almost anything like this happening so far.

Libarian said: ↑

We have Brain flat out say that he taught Jellal self-destruction magic(rune based) as well as other which we know have to include at least four different elements since he used abyss brake in addition to heavenly body magic, plus he was able to imitate Mystogan well enough to foul about 90% of the guild at the GMGs.

"I will acknowledge your point about Brain teaching Jellal but how long was that? It could have been over a long period of time which is exactly my point. You cannot compare Jellal and Mystogan because Mystogan didn't teach Jellal his magic. Jellal has Heavenly Body Magic which incorporates almost all elements including Air Magic which is why he can use Mystogan's attack because that is what he uses."
First off the episode Brain teach him he demostraights the once Jellel reproduces it immediately Brain is slack jaw so it could not have been long. Secondly, where does it say that Heavenly body Magic incorporates all elements? http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Heavenly_Body_Magic Abyss Break does but by your standards it shouldn't exist since Jellal has no bridge between elements

I probably forgot that specific part of the episode so I'll take your words on it. The source you provided has more accurate information then me so I guess you can say it is more like Astronomical/Elemental Space Magic or however you want to call it. However, Jellal does have Lightning, Fire, and Air Magic for sure. I don't necessarily see how it ties in with astrology or space unless we talk about like the characteristics of space itself, but that is far-fetched. I still call it Elemental Magic to a certain degree but that is just me.

Libarian said: ↑

Everyone in Oración Seis learned a secondary magic one being the same as Zero's the arc is canon. Also what episode are you talking about?

"I'm not saying you cannot learn a secondary magic. However, secondary magics are usually seen in the manga and anime if it is related to the user's own magic type. If it is a brand new magic, it should take more than a year. The non-canon episode I was referring to isn't actually part of the Anime. It was an Omake or a Bonus Episode that is purely for entertainment purposes which is not canon."

First off do not cite Omakes as evidence as they by definition purely for entertainment purposes which is not canon. By the way the question still stands it sounds amusing. Secondly, Midnight's darkness is related to his reflector in what way

I didn't really mean to use the Omake as evidence but it was more like showing why Hiro Mashima didn't make it canon. If he really wanted Mirajane to teach Natsu, Lucy, and Happy Transformation Magic, then he could have incorporated into the story. Okay, you're right that that they're not related. Midnight's reflecting capabilities are his supporting magic in addition to his overall illusion and darkness magic. I am fine with that because every character has some type of supporting magic or back-up. The only problem I have with Laxus is how we were told that he learned Freed's primary magic so suddenly and that there was never any evidence to back it up from past arcs. Basically, I felt it was more like something pulled out of the ordinary.

Libarian said: ↑

One year is actually a very long time in Fairy tail, http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline july 2 x784-december 15 the same year is everything from lucy showing up to the first time skip the GMGs to the second major time skip is only about two months more a year.

"Sure. One year might be a long time. Name one instance during that whole year where a character learned a brand new type of magic that is not even remotely related to their own."
you are asking the impossible here Fairy tail focuses on for the most part. Our point of veiw is limited, since you are the one claiming an impossibility cite one instance where it says that a year isn't enough in fact the only instances that I remember are characters that exceed expectation in learning new things.
Libarian said: ↑

You cite Gery working his entire childhood to learn Ice magic, that just wrong the attack, his training, and his joining the guild all happened in the same year X774.

No, just because Ur died and left Gray, it does not mean that he was proficient in Ice-Make Magic. Actually, you can see Gray frustrated because he failed at many attacks. Laxus casting a strong Jutsu Shiki is different from casting a fail one. If he failed, then you would have a point. He had a lot to learn afterwards which is why he joined Fairy Tail and went on missions.
You said "learn" not master my point is Grey learned ice make in less then a year from no known previous exposure to the concepts of magic, Ice trial shows that he learn the basics enough to use it in battle,

Yeah, I said learn. To me, learning means you have full control of the magic with very little errors. As a kid, sometimes Gray would fail whether his previous success was luck or not. Even so, then Jutsu Shiki that Laxus performed was not an ordinary barrier. It was one that prevented a Sprigan from escaping. Not like Freed's amateur barrier for the battle between Jet, Droy, and Alzack during the Battle of Fairy Tail. Not to mention, Laxus did it perfectly with ease meaning he must have fully learned it or mastered it in a sense.

Libarian said: ↑

Just about every attack spell that Wendy knows was learned by mimicking Natsu she was only in the guild 3-4 months. Wendy learned two spells she could barely read in a week, if Laxus has the basic knowledge for rune magic that is greatly form then taking a page out of Freed's book of spells quite literally is not only reasonable but simple. Give credit where it is due, Whal gave Laxus a good fight he lost.

Learning to control your powers is very different from learning whole different type of magic. There are plenty of characters who have more than one but the point still stands, just how long does it take? The two spells Wendy learned are the same type of magic as the one she uses which is Sky Dragon Slaying Magic. I've already stated this numerous times. That is why Gray was able to achieve Ice Devil Slaying Magic in one year. Next time, before you say all my points are wrong, make sure you have accurate evidence and information. I give credit where it is necessary. Apparently, this does not seem to be the case.
You have missed my point or chose to ignore it , Laxus should have a basic knowledge of the spell from hanging around Freed, because pattern recondition is a cornerstone of the learning process and the nature of the spell itself is pattern based, as long as a base exist incorporating concepts with in the same scope is as simple as Wendy did with those two spells

The main reason why I don't believe you learn just from hanging around with the user is because it is not that simple. It requires a long time of hard work, dedication, and training. Using this logic, Natsu should know Celestial Magic and Lucy should know Fire Magic. Or more like Happy learning Fire Magic while Natsu can learn to create wings and fly. Honestly, Team Natsu probably spends more time together then the Raijinshuu.

 

[Brandish μ]

I think the scuffle they had in chapter 472 was even. Wahl landed a pretty big punch, Laxus a big kick. No damage really done to either. You can give it to Laxus if you factor in that his lightning was ineffective AND still made Wahl go all out.