Fantasy Lucy vs Elfman

[Itsnever2k]

Sure, Wendy would lose to Elfman too, in fact he'd probably solo her and Lucy together.
Sure, she still has trouble with Ajeel after spending the entire time it took Lucy to have a bath, tanking Ajeel's magic.

Sure, and I don't think Madmole oneshots like Kyria did, he still obviously beats them though.

Using 1 SD mix exhausts her, she's not using two on Elfman unless he lets her rest between uses. And tbh he could just allow her to take a rest after using it, it wouldn't matter, since using one barely damaged him, doubling up on that is hardly a threat to him. And that's assuming Elfman just decides to let her hit him without retaliating, which would still guarantee him the victory, but if he wanted to he could beat her much faster just by attacking himself. The dude has the offense to put down Ajeel, putting down the likes of Lucy isn't really a big deal.

Marin disabled Erza magic, thanks to that Ajeel's got to drain Erza with his magic and Ajeel's immunity to swords meant that she couldn't use Benizakura, her strongest weapon by far.
Still matched the force of Natsu's punch, and injuring Natsu's arm is a feat beyond Lucy anyway. In fact Madmole simply tanking attacks causes significantly more damage to people than Lucy is capable of. Though tbh, seeing Madmole hitting Elfman isn't really needed, because we've already seen Lucy hit Elfman, to negligible effect, she can't really do anything.

It is also said by Mira that the two of them couldn't beat the dragon slayers, so Madmole beats Elfman too.

Quickly with the Erza thing, you are just plain wrong, Ajeel would have beat her clean 1 vs 1 where it not for the help of Bisca. So yeah, to me that means Elfman only had a hope against him because of his counter to sand magic, and being backed up by Lisanna, who you can pretend doesn't exist as much as you like, but without her he would have lost.

Again, Lucy continued to fight against Mira and Elfman without break after using her SD mix, then went running over to Cana, Gray and Juvia and continued to use magic without being phased, and only got exhausted when she hit the second SD mix.
You are definitely underplaying Lucy's attack power here. Lucy did more damage to Elfman than Madmole blocking his one punch did, and then the second SD mix she showed was stronger than base Gajeel, who is comparable to base Natsu, if a bit weaker, so no, Madmole just matching base Natsu is not above what Lucy is capable of.

You say Elfman could just attack her and then it would be job done, but in reality it would be way harder than that. Elfman couldn't one shot Loke, or Taurus, and Lucy in her Loke form (not her fastest SD) was able to keep up with Lisanna, who is fast enough to beat an enemy Elfman couldn't even touch in Alvarez. All this shows Lucy would very easily be able to keep up while her stamina lasted. I agree it probably wouldn't be enough to put Elfman down, but you are wrong in saying that Elfman could just decide at a moments notice to put Lucy down, and he would win.

 

[grey matter]

Well, either Gray soloed Mirajane and Elfman or Lucy and Cana took out Elfman. Pick one, and then we can make the breakdowns.

Gray clearly solo'd. Lucy and Cana looked completely fresh, and didn't seem to have fought. They didn't even have a scratch, I don't buy them taking down Elfman that casually. Hell, IMO Elfman solos them at the same time

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2020 ---

I don't deny his durability, Elfman is a tank for sure, but with the casual thing, he wasn't clearly holding back like Mira was.

I disagree with your take on his offence almost completely though. I don't think he has the power you say he has, to me it's way more likely that off screen Mira dropped a nuke or something which is what caused the damage to the dragon eaters. With Ajeel, as I said he has a hard counter to his magic, and the only way for Ajeel to win is stopped by Lisanna. If Lucy had the same resistance I think she eventually would be able to whittle him down. I think 1 vs 1, Ajeel would beat Elfman, so I think people are downplaying Lisanna's contribution in that regard. Also, it is canon that Elfman struggles against speed, which with the cancer form she has. I think she could come up with a strategy that would at least enable her to do a lot of damage, like have Loke spam his blinding move, and then hit him from range, or something.

That is the problem with off screen fights, it leaves way too much room for interpretation, so people who like Elfman will say he can hit harder then FDK Natsu, but for me who doesn't really care about him, I think that sounds crazy, as he has never been shown to have an attack beyond a regular punch like the one he hit Loke or Madmole with on screen, which didn't do anything to either of them, so for him to be considered as a top fighter, he will need specific feats more than just being a tank, and having off screen fights.

I don't think there is an argument that Elfman >>> Lucy, or the reverse for now, as I think Elfman would struggle to actually hit Lucy, and Lucy would struggle to do enough damage to Elfman to put him down, though as a Lucy fan I would like to think she could have stronger star dress mixes for 1 on 1 fights, as I don't think it's crazy to say Lions Maiden was more suited to area of attack, but there could be a different one like Leo x Taurus which could be a more focused attack (granted this is just a personal theory, and means nothing). My opinion on Elfman probably won't change unless we see him actually doing top tier things on screen.

After thinking about it some more, my mind has been changed, as at first I thought Lucy would take him, but I think you're right about his durability being too much for Lucy to overcome, though imo that is more likely to change in this series than Elfman being such a heavy hitter, so I think Elfman takes it high diff, while taking a lot of damage

Yeah, so you're saying Mira damaged both,..........based on what? The manga suggest that Mira fought Skullion, and Elfman fought Madmole. Unless anything explicitly suggests otherwise, all damage dealt to Madmole came from Elfman, period.
Lissana did nothing other than make him fly, Elfman did all the damage. Yea no, Ajeel 1 v 1 would stalemate Elfman, since he can't damage Elfman at all and Elfman will be in his pit. Even if you argue that Ajeel would win, the point still stands that Elfman had enough damage output to bring down Ajeel, which is FAR more than enough to bring down Lucy.
Elfman tagged Ajeel, and Madmole. He's definitely fast enough to tag Lucy.

I agree with you on off screen interpretation, but for Elfman's damage output nothing other than off screen fight exists.
But, Elfman's on screen damage output managed to take down Sayla in Tartarus. He's clearly no slouch in damage, if we scale from that.

Elfman has hit opponents far faster than Lucy (namely Ajeel, whose combat speed gave Erza, who's >>> Lucy in speed, a run for her money). Obviously, him taking near zero damage from Ajeel helps, but this definitely does mean that he can tag opponents that are way faster than Lucy

Elfman is already established to be a physically powerful hitter. His entire shtick is being a heavy hitting tank.
Whenever he was given an opportunity to show his attack power, he has. On screen in phantom arc, in Tartarus arc. Off screen against Ajeel and Madmole

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2020 ---

So now you're telling me that elfman is stronger than erza because she couldn't defeatjeel without the help of jupiter. 2 If you tell me about the robots that use the weaknesses of grey juvia etc. . Then I'll tell you that Elfman didn't beat the speed man against him as well. But when they changed lisanna the defeated. 3 chapter 521, it took two of us to defeat him. So lisanna played a role in the victory overjeel. So without lisanna elfman, we'd lose

Elfman had sand immunity, Erza didn't.

Obviously, without sand beast, Elfman gets rekt. But, the point here is that he had enough attack power to bring down someone of Ajeel's level, who did manage to tank multiple attacks from Erza.

 

[Itsnever2k]

Gray is pretty clearly implied to have been the one to beat them both I think.

Hell, IMO Elfman solos them at the same time

Just how. Elfman is a tank, but Lucy can damage him, and Cana hits way harder with Fairy Glitter, he would for sure go down against both of them.

Gray clearly solo'd. Lucy and Cana looked completely fresh, and didn't seem to have fought. They didn't even have a scratch, I don't buy them taking down Elfman that casually. Hell, IMO Elfman solos them at the same time

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2020 ---

Yeah, so you're saying Mira damaged both,..........based on what? The manga suggest that Mira fought Skullion, and Elfman fought Madmole. Unless anything explicitly suggests otherwise, all damage dealt to Madmole came from Elfman, period.
Lissana did nothing other than make him fly, Elfman did all the damage. Yea no, Ajeel 1 v 1 would stalemate Elfman, since he can't damage Elfman at all and Elfman will be in his pit. Even if you argue that Ajeel would win, the point still stands that Elfman had enough damage output to bring down Ajeel, which is FAR more than enough to bring down Lucy.
Elfman tagged Ajeel, and Madmole. He's definitely fast enough to tag Lucy.

I agree with you on off screen interpretation, but for Elfman's damage output nothing other than off screen fight exists.
But, Elfman's on screen damage output managed to take down Sayla in Tartarus. He's clearly no slouch in damage, if we scale from that.

Elfman has hit opponents far faster than Lucy (namely Ajeel, whose combat speed gave Erza, who's >>> Lucy in speed, a run for her money). Obviously, him taking near zero damage from Ajeel helps, but this definitely does mean that he can tag opponents that are way faster than Lucy

Elfman is already established to be a physically powerful hitter. His entire shtick is being a heavy hitting tank.
Whenever he was given an opportunity to show his attack power, he has. On screen in phantom arc, in Tartarus arc. Off screen against Ajeel and Madmole

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2020 ---

Elfman had sand immunity, Erza didn't.

Obviously, without sand beast, Elfman gets rekt. But, the point here is that he had enough attack power to bring down someone of Ajeel's level, who did manage to tank multiple attacks from Erza.

Can you not see a contradiction with what you're saying? The manga implies that it was a joint effort that Elfman and Lisanna beat Ajeel together, just as much as it suggests Mira and Elfman damaged the dragon eaters together. I don't think that's true though, since what we know from the rest of the manga that Elfman's sandbeast is a strong counter to Ajeel, and Lisanna isn't that strong, so he is the one who would have to do most of the work. Moving this to the dragon eater fight, Elfman doesn't have any attack's that suggest he would be able to damage Madmole or Skullion, in fact they both are terrible matches for him, so to me it would make more sense for it to have been Mira to do the damage against both.

For Ajeel vs Elfman, Ajeel was literally about to have drowned him, but Lisanna saved him. I never said Elfman doesn't have the power to bring Lucy down, I've consistently saying he does, but it would be hard for him too get at Lucy.

Canon feats says Elfman struggles against speed types, and Lucy has shown herself to be able to match Lisanna in speed, who is herself faster than Elfman. I'm not saying he couldn't hit her, but it would be very hard. As for him being a hard hitting tank, his biggest hit was when he took a blindsided Sayla from behind. To me this is a massive inconsistency, as Sayla one shot Mira's strongest form, so this to me either means that it did so much damage because it was a sneak attack from behind, or Sayla had a massive disparity between her attack and durability, and the former seems more likely to me.

He's had plenty of on screen opportunities this arc to show himself as a so called heavy hitter. Against Loke, no damage done, just knocked him back, and then against Madmole, where he did nothing. You keep on saying Elfman no sold Lucy's strongest attack therefore he would easily beat her. Madmole no sold Elfman's strongest attack, so by your logic it should be Madmole >>> Elfman, but that seems unlikely..

Unless you want to argue Elfman has some ultimate attack that just exists for his off screen battles, I don't think you can convince me that Elfman easily beats Lucy.

 

[yutu]

Elfman has hit opponents far faster than Lucy (namely Ajeel, whose combat speed gave Erza, who's >>> Lucy in speed, a run for her money). Obviously, him taking near zero damage from Ajeel helps, but this definitely does mean that he can tag opponents that are way faster than Lucy

ELFMAN had trouble hitting the robot at speed, but Lisanna didn't. If he's having trouble with this robot either Ajeel is going slower than the robot is lisanna played a role against ajeel's speed. Secondly, erza had the armour of water to counter the sand. She lost to him because of the storm on magnolia, a magic he didn't really use against elfman and lisanna. Lucy with scorpio has a fairly high speed which must surely exceed that of the weak robot. I doubt elfman can touch her with that dress.

Lissana did nothing other than make him fly, Elfman did all the damage. Yea no, Ajeel 1 v 1 would stalemate Elfman, since he can't damage Elfman at all and Elfman will be in his pit. Even if you argue that Ajeel would win, the point still stands that Elfman had enough damage output to bring down Ajeel, which is FAR more than enough to bring down Lucy.

He has another picture of lisanna standing in chat mode next to elfman in fight mode so no she didn't just help elfman get him out. The rest of your speech is just a possibility of the fight, because this fight would have passed otherwise. The sand soul protects elfman from sandstorms and not from attack spells. Lisanna could have taken ajeel in flight and dropped it high enough to crash to the ground or elfman hit it when it fell. Lisanna could've crushed him in big bunny mode or smothered him in lamia mode. The fact is that Lisanna was in the fight and she played a big part in it, otherwise she would have said I didn't do much instead of we had to get together.

 

[Seven777]

It is also said by Mira that the two of them couldn't beat the dragon slayers, so Madmole beats Elfman too.

Quickly with the Erza thing, you are just plain wrong, Ajeel would have beat her clean 1 vs 1 where it not for the help of Bisca. So yeah, to me that means Elfman only had a hope against him because of his counter to sand magic, and being backed up by Lisanna, who you can pretend doesn't exist as much as you like, but without her he would have lost.

Again, Lucy continued to fight against Mira and Elfman without break after using her SD mix, then went running over to Cana, Gray and Juvia and continued to use magic without being phased, and only got exhausted when she hit the second SD mix.
You are definitely underplaying Lucy's attack power here. Lucy did more damage to Elfman than Madmole blocking his one punch did, and then the second SD mix she showed was stronger than base Gajeel, who is comparable to base Natsu, if a bit weaker, so no, Madmole just matching base Natsu is not above what Lucy is capable of.

You say Elfman could just attack her and then it would be job done, but in reality it would be way harder than that. Elfman couldn't one shot Loke, or Taurus, and Lucy in her Loke form (not her fastest SD) was able to keep up with Lisanna, who is fast enough to beat an enemy Elfman couldn't even touch in Alvarez. All this shows Lucy would very easily be able to keep up while her stamina lasted. I agree it probably wouldn't be enough to put Elfman down, but you are wrong in saying that Elfman could just decide at a moments notice to put Lucy down, and he would win.

She said she wasn't sure if they'd win, not that they would lose

No, rather it was Ajeel that only had a hope against Erza because of his counter to sword magic. As for Lissana, I didn't say she didnt help, I said Elfman was the prominent fighter.

Sure, she continued to fight, but without SD Mix, she's not using it again unless she gets rest, which Elfman could allow and still win, but he wont which is why this fight doesn't make it past mid diff. Her time running around looking for Cana, then collecting FT members and then having a little team meeting is plenty of rest.
No, I'm giving Lucy's attack power an appropriate estimate based on what she was actually capable of accomplishing against Elfman. She attacked Elfman with her strongest shown ability, and he tanked it easily, I don't really need anything more. She already had Loke, her strongest spirit, attacking him too, didn't help much. Add Virgo on top of that? Not really gonna make a difference. Elfman was in such good condition afterwards that he could go on to stalemate Madmol, and then fight Gray again. As for hitting harder than base Gajeel, sure, she can hit harder than a random nameless attack, but Gajeel ain't beating Elfman with a couple of attacks, Elfman took a hit from Base Natsu easily. So even if Lucy could fire off two Star Dress mixes, it's not going to cut it.

I didn't say Elfman could put Lucy down in a moments notice, I said he could beat Lucy faster if he decided to attack her, rather than just tanking all her attacks. Either way though, Elfman is the clear victor, I'd rate him overall below Madmole, so he wins with perhaps slightly more difficulty than Kyria had.

 

[yutu]

She said she wasn't sure if they'd win, not that they would lose

No, rather it was Ajeel that only had a hope against Erza because of his counter to sword magic. As for Lissana, I didn't say she didnt help, I said Elfman was the prominent fighter.

Sure, she continued to fight, but without SD Mix, she's not using it again unless she gets rest, which Elfman could allow and still win, but he wont which is why this fight doesn't make it past mid diff. Her time running around looking for Cana, then collecting FT members and then having a little team meeting is plenty of rest.
No, I'm giving Lucy's attack power an appropriate estimate based on what she was actually capable of accomplishing against Elfman. She attacked Elfman with her strongest shown ability, and he tanked it easily, I don't really need anything more. She already had Loke, her strongest spirit, attacking him too, didn't help much. Add Virgo on top of that? Not really gonna make a difference. Elfman was in such good condition afterwards that he could go on to stalemate Madmol, and then fight Gray again. As for hitting harder than base Gajeel, sure, she can hit harder than a random nameless attack, but Gajeel ain't beating Elfman with a couple of attacks, Elfman took a hit from Base Natsu easily. So even if Lucy could fire off two Star Dress mixes, it's not going to cut it.

I didn't say Elfman could put Lucy down in a moments notice, I said he could beat Lucy faster if he decided to attack her, rather than just tanking all her attacks. Either way though, Elfman is the clear victor, I'd rate him overall below Madmole, so he wins with perhaps slightly more difficulty than Kyria had.

I think more that it is Mirajane who defeated leo than elfman because this one is attached this method is more represents Mirajane than elfman. The virgin didn't fight elfman but more mirajane and this one prefers punishment more than fighting mirajane. nothing says that she has to rest after using the mixed stardress to use it again it's just that she can't keep the mixed dress longer than the others.

 

[Seven777]

I think more that it is Mirajane who defeated leo than elfman because this one is attached this method is more represents Mirajane than elfman. The virgin didn't fight elfman but more mirajane and this one prefers punishment more than fighting mirajane.

Sure, could be, but at the end of the day even after stacking Leo with Star Dress mix, Lucy could not push Elfman at all.

nothing says that she has to rest after using the mixed stardress to use it again it's just that she can't keep the mixed dress longer than the others.

I disagree. The very fact that Lucy was forced out of it immediately after casting a single spell implies that it's not something she can do consecutively. Not that it really matters, firing off two isn't really a big deal for Elfman, even 3 or 4 or even 5 should be manageable based on it's performance. Elfman should be able to mid, maybe high diff Lucy and Wendy at the same time based on his performance against Madmole

 

[Itsnever2k]

She said she wasn't sure if they'd win, not that they would lose

No, rather it was Ajeel that only had a hope against Erza because of his counter to sword magic. As for Lissana, I didn't say she didnt help, I said Elfman was the prominent fighter.

Sure, she continued to fight, but without SD Mix, she's not using it again unless she gets rest, which Elfman could allow and still win, but he wont which is why this fight doesn't make it past mid diff. Her time running around looking for Cana, then collecting FT members and then having a little team meeting is plenty of rest.
No, I'm giving Lucy's attack power an appropriate estimate based on what she was actually capable of accomplishing against Elfman. She attacked Elfman with her strongest shown ability, and he tanked it easily, I don't really need anything more. She already had Loke, her strongest spirit, attacking him too, didn't help much. Add Virgo on top of that? Not really gonna make a difference. Elfman was in such good condition afterwards that he could go on to stalemate Madmol, and then fight Gray again. As for hitting harder than base Gajeel, sure, she can hit harder than a random nameless attack, but Gajeel ain't beating Elfman with a couple of attacks, Elfman took a hit from Base Natsu easily. So even if Lucy could fire off two Star Dress mixes, it's not going to cut it.

I didn't say Elfman could put Lucy down in a moments notice, I said he could beat Lucy faster if he decided to attack her, rather than just tanking all her attacks. Either way though, Elfman is the clear victor, I'd rate him overall below Madmole, so he wins with perhaps slightly more difficulty than Kyria had.

For Ajeel vs Erza, you said Marin disabled her magic, which he didn't,

You have no idea weather or not she could hit the SD mix again in the course of a single fight, and nor do I to be fair. To me, she kept using plenty of magic without much rest,so it should be possible to hit another one off.
You said that matching base Natsu is a feet far beyond what Lucy is capable. That's not true, as I have said, her second SD mix hits significantly harder than an attack from base Gajeel, who is near base Natsu. I don't know what you're referring to when base Natsu hit Elfman, was it some joke brawl at the guild without fire? You also said Madmole blocking causes significantly more damage than what Lucy is capable of. That is also not true, given we saw Elfman not take more damage from hitting Madmole then he did from Lucy's SD mix, even if I suppose he took more concentrated damage to the hand.

I don't think Elfman would be able to hit Lucy very easily. He's hasn't shown the power this arc to be able to one shot her, or frankly very much damage at all in his Lion form, Lucy is faster than he is, and would have plenty of ways to attack him. This is a hard fight for Elfman, even though I agree he would probably take the W.

 

[Seven777]

For Ajeel vs Erza, you said Marin disabled her magic, which he didn't,

You have no idea weather or not she could hit the SD mix again in the course of a single fight, and nor do I to be fair. To me, she kept using plenty of magic without much rest,so it should be possible to hit another one off.
You said that matching base Natsu is a feet far beyond what Lucy is capable. That's not true, as I have said, her second SD mix hits significantly harder than an attack from base Gajeel, who is near base Natsu. I don't know what you're referring to when base Natsu hit Elfman, was it some joke brawl at the guild without fire? You also said Madmole blocking causes significantly more damage than what Lucy is capable of. That is also not true, given we saw Elfman not take more damage from hitting Madmole then he did from Lucy's SD mix, even if I suppose he took more concentrated damage to the hand.

I don't think Elfman would be able to hit Lucy very easily. He's hasn't shown the power this arc to be able to one shot her, or frankly very much damage at all in his Lion form, Lucy is faster than he is, and would have plenty of ways to attack him. This is a hard fight for Elfman, even though I agree he would probably take the W.

Yes he did, he disabled it for the entire time it took Lucy to take a bath, and Erza spent all that time tanking Ajeel's magic, and he still couldn't beat her.

Fair, I'll change my statement. Matching a named/serious attack from Base Natsu is beyond what Lucy is capable of. Killing the wood golem thing is a decent feat, but Fairy Tail had already destroyed a bunch of them by that point. The fact that Lucy also needs to use her strongest ability just to approach that level doesn't give her good odds against Elfman, who's already shown he can tank it without trouble
It doesn't matter whether she can use it more than once or not, two shots isn't going to do it.
Yes, the joke brawl.
More concentrated damage to the hand was what I was talking about.

Wouldn't be easy, but it's doable.
As for the difficulty, I can't see him have much more trouble soloing Lucy, than Kyria did soloing Lucy and Wendy at the same time. Especially given how easily he handled Star Dress mix.

 

[mwarren100]

ELFMAN had trouble hitting the robot at speed, but Lisanna didn't. If he's having trouble with this robot either Ajeel is going slower than the robot is lisanna played a role against ajeel's speed. Secondly, erza had the armour of water to counter the sand. She lost to him because of the storm on magnolia, a magic he didn't really use against elfman and lisanna. Lucy with scorpio has a fairly high speed which must surely exceed that of the weak robot. I doubt elfman can touch her with that dress.



He has another picture of lisanna standing in chat mode next to elfman in fight mode so no she didn't just help elfman get him out. The rest of your speech is just a possibility of the fight, because this fight would have passed otherwise. The sand sud protects elfman from sandstorms and not from attack spells. Lisanna could have taken ajeel in flight and dropped it high enough to crash to the ground or elfman hit it when it fell. Lisanna could've crushed him in big bunny mode or smothered him in lamia mode. The fact is that Lisanna was in the fight and she played a big part in it, otherwise she would have said I didn't do much instead of we had to get together.

Yes he did, he disabled it for the entire time it took Lucy to take a bath, and Erza spent all that time tanking Ajeel's magic, and he still couldn't beat her.

Fair, I'll change my statement. Matching a named/serious attack from Base Natsu is beyond what Lucy is capable of. Killing the wood golem thing is a decent feat, but Fairy Tail had already destroyed a bunch of them by that point. The fact that Lucy also needs to use her strongest ability just to approach that level doesn't give her good odds against Elfman, who's already shown he can tank it without trouble
It doesn't matter whether she can use it more than once or not, two shots isn't going to do it.
Yes, the joke brawl.
More concentrated damage to the hand was what I was talking about.

Wouldn't be easy, but it's doable.
As for the difficulty, I can't see him have much more trouble soloing Lucy, than Kyria did soloing Lucy and Wendy at the same time. Especially given how easily he handled Star Dress mix.

This thread is ridiculous.

 

[grey matter]

This thread is ridiculous.

Yea, the Lucy wank is. I agree

 

[Jko]

I don't think Gray soloed since it was implied he only fought Mira but it doesn't matter either way lol. Elfman has already prove to be stronger than Lucy. Honestly I think Elfman is Gray/Gajeel tier. Imo he can give them a run for their money.

Lucy kind proved her attack power is decent when she was doing better than Base Gajeel's and Lily's attacks against the Golems. Elfman still tank that level of attack like a boss and fought one of the hardest opponents to put down in sheer power to a stalemate. Note that even Natsu didn't beat up Madmole with pure power, but by using heat of his attack yet Elf was able to do it with only physical power.

Again, where and when did any of this actually happen. Natsu didn't get tagged by Madmole, he just grabbed on to him while he was stunned from the recoil of his attack, so that means nothing. Against Ajeel, we have 0 knowledge of what happened in that fight, and he was backed up by Lisanna, and you can say Elfman did most of the heavy lifting like it's canon, but it's not, so we can't say he would definitely be able to hit Lucy, who would be backed up with multiple spirits.

Madmole and Natsu attacked each other on the boat. If Natsu was faster than Madmole, his attack would have connected way before Madmole's did and there would not have been a clash lol.

So now you're telling me that elfman is stronger than erza because she couldn't defeatjeel without the help of jupiter. 2 If you tell me about the robots that use the weaknesses of grey juvia etc. . Then I'll tell you that Elfman didn't beat the speed man against him as well. But when they changed lisanna the defeated. 3 chapter 521, it took two of us to defeat him. So lisanna played a role in the victory overjeel. So without lisanna elfman, we'd lose

Where did I say Elfman was stronger than Erza? He had immunity to Ajeel's sand which made him the perfect counter to fight him and Elfman has strength above a Base FDK Demo-fist which means he had the means to harm Ajeel. Erza had no such luxury of having a perfect counter against Ajeel lol. Elfman was in base form against the speed robot lol. We know takeover forms >>> base forms in stats. Lisanna role was to make sure Elfman didn't sink into a hole and drown to death. She was not the primary fighter against Ajeel as she is 1. too weak to actually harm him, and 2. can't hurt him due to sand body. She is also not fast enough to carry her brother and blitz Ajeel. Again, this the same Ajeel who was shown to be faster than Erza in speed, strong enough to hurt Erza, and was durable enough to tank Erza's sword strikes.

 

[mwarren100]

Yea, the Lucy wank is. I agree

I mean Elfman wank. I'll never go against lucy.
.

 

[Ramen]

I mean Elfman wank. I'll never go against lucy.
.

Elfman wank doesn't exist. Lucy wank does.

 

[yutu]

Where did I say Elfman was stronger than Erza? He had immunity to Ajeel's sand which made him the perfect counter to fight him and Elfman has strength above a Base FDK Demo-fist which means he had the means to harm Ajeel. Erza had no such luxury of having a perfect counter against Ajeel lol. Elfman was in base form against the speed robot lol. We know takeover forms >>> base forms in stats. Lisanna role was to make sure Elfman didn't sink into a hole and drown to death. She was not the primary fighter against Ajeel as she is 1. too weak to actually harm him, and 2. can't hurt him due to sand body. She is also not fast enough to carry her brother and blitz Ajeel. Again, this the same Ajeel who was shown to be faster than Erza in speed, strong enough to hurt Erza, and was durable enough to tank Erza's sword strikes.

Certainly he had the basic form but since he still changed robot shows that even with these other forms, he could not have defeated him. Otherwise why change at all. Wrong the role of lisanna was not that case because otherwise she wouldn't have activated her fight mode and two if it was just to avoid that elfman falls into a hole, she wouldn't have said we should go to two but instead I didn't do much. If you see lisanna's fight mode and this sentence shows that she played a bigger role in the fight than keeping elfman from falling into a hole. We don't know lisanna's true power in the alvaress bow. Or did you see that she can't touchjeel's sand body?

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Certainly he had the basic form but since he still changed robot shows that even with these other forms, he could not have defeated him. Otherwise why change at all. Wrong the role of lisanna was not that case because otherwise she wouldn't have activated her fight mode and two if it was just to avoid that elfman falls into a hole, she wouldn't have said we should go to two but instead I didn't do much. If you see lisanna's fight mode and this sentence shows that she played a bigger role in the fight than keeping elfman from falling into a hole. We don't know lisanna's true power in the alvaress bow. Or did you see that she can't touchjeel's sand body?

What makes you think Lissana did more work than Elfman. She was providing him air support for Elfman against Ant Pit attacks. Elfman is the one with sand beast takeover not lissana. He should be one who can touch Ajeel not Lissana.

 

[Jko]

Certainly he had the basic form but since he still changed robot shows that even with these other forms, he could not have defeated him. Otherwise why change at all. Wrong the role of lisanna was not that case because otherwise she wouldn't have activated her fight mode and two if it was just to avoid that elfman falls into a hole, she wouldn't have said we should go to two but instead I didn't do much. If you see lisanna's fight mode and this sentence shows that she played a bigger role in the fight than keeping elfman from falling into a hole. We don't know lisanna's true power in the alvaress bow. Or did you see that she can't touchjeel's sand body?

Do you think Gray couldn't have frozen that Wall bots flames when he froze Natsu's fire??? The point of switching the fodder bots was to highlight the theme of the chapter which is teamwork. Gray and Elf could have absolutely bodied their fodder bots if they wanted to lol. What sentence? She did nothing bcs she absolutely can't hurt Ajeel. That's like saying Levy is the main contributor in a Gajeel fight lmao. Lisanna is clearly the weak link and she had nothing in her arsenal to hurt Ajeel. Her thing was flying so Elfman doesn't get dropped in the Ant Lion pit. We saw Lisanna's true power against Lucy and Lucy demolished it yet failed to produce any real damage on Elfman. Lisanna then got dispatched by a simple chokehold from Capricorn after she got back up. Lisanna doesn't have the ability to touch Ajeel let alone hurt him lol.

 

[Itsnever2k]

Yes he did, he disabled it for the entire time it took Lucy to take a bath, and Erza spent all that time tanking Ajeel's magic, and he still couldn't beat her.

Fair, I'll change my statement. Matching a named/serious attack from Base Natsu is beyond what Lucy is capable of. Killing the wood golem thing is a decent feat, but Fairy Tail had already destroyed a bunch of them by that point. The fact that Lucy also needs to use her strongest ability just to approach that level doesn't give her good odds against Elfman, who's already shown he can tank it without trouble
It doesn't matter whether she can use it more than once or not, two shots isn't going to do it.
Yes, the joke brawl.
More concentrated damage to the hand was what I was talking about.

Wouldn't be easy, but it's doable.
As for the difficulty, I can't see him have much more trouble soloing Lucy, than Kyria did soloing Lucy and Wendy at the same time. Especially given how easily he handled Star Dress mix.

Fair enough, completely forgot that part, missed it even after skimming through the chapters quickly, but still doesn;t change the fact once he was serious, he would have.beat her.

Had they already beaten a bunch? The only one that looks like it was going down was one hit by Mira, and the rest where still going pretty strong by the looks of it.

You saying he wouldn't have much more trouble soloing Lucy and Wendy at the same time doesn't make any sense. Kyria one shot the two of them in a second. Elfman couldn't do that at all, no matter how tanky he was, and with Wendy Elfman gets beat imo. Again, Elfman's only solid feats throughout the series have been durability based and Wendy would boost the damage Lucy could do and do plenty of her own.

I think we are going around in circles here. I don't see an argument to be made that he has significant enough attack power to make this an easy fight for him, and even if his attack was much higher, he still wouldn't win nearly as easily as Kyria did. I think eventually he would get the job done when Lucy ran out of power, but he's not walking through her either, which is why I won't consider him with the top of the guild unless he actually does something impressive on screen.

 

[Star Frost]

Not that I disagree Elfman got the win, but what I do disagree with is those acting like it'll be easy.

Regarding his attack power, we haven't seen any impressive attack power feats out of him. He sent Loke flying yet Loke suffered zero damage from it. Loke didn't start getting damaged until the panel showed both Elfman and Mirajane were coming at him and Lucy at the same time. Keep in mind, majority of that fight was off paneled. We have no idea how exactly Loke was taken out. For all we know, Mirajane probably did some satanic blast that concluded it. Not to mention, Loke was tied up which is a Mirajane thing to do. So, who is to say Mirajane contributed in taking him out. It would be contradictory for those to disregard this when I'm seeing those disregarding an on panel canon statement that it took both Elfman and Lisanna to beat Ajeel. He also attacked Madmole who tanked that with his armor with zero damage on panel. Moreover to the point, Elfman doesn't have the necessary attack power feats to show he'll beat Lucy with ease. He needs to do better than what he displayed to showcase that.

Even further from that, Lucy has better speed than Elfman. Canon feats displayed how Elfman can't lay a hand on the fast weakness bot that Lisanna was able to keep up with and defeat. Then we see Lucy is able to dodge all of Lisanna's quick attacks. This would put Lucy at an advantage. However, it doesn't matter if she doesn't have the necessary attack power feat to take out Elfman. But it does support that Elfman isn't taking her out with ease if Lucy dodges his attacks.

The best attack feat we got out of Lucy so far is destroying a golem by herself (not to mention punching a hole in her Taurus form) while almost everyone else are working together to beat one, yet there's also a combined effort of those who are failing to do so (for ex: Base Gray and Juvia lol). I'm not sure to say if the Aqua Storm is either the same level attack power as Lion Maiden, or better. Nonetheless, I don't think that's enough to take out Elfman. Without a doubt, Elfman's durability is high. He tanked one of Lucy's top spells and held himself well against Madmole who Wraith said is as strong as Natsu's power (without his fire magic). I seen people mention Urano Metria would suffice which is her strongest attack, but we have no idea of its capabilities now after her progress considering she hasn't used it since Tartaros. If we were to go by that, we would have no choice but to go by its feat from that time. And the feat from that time wouldn't be enough to take out Elfman given who she last used it against.

Lastly, there's Lucy's stamina. She held herself well against the 3 siblings with decent magic reserves despite her SDM taking up a lot of her magic.

With all that being said, this is a mid-high diff fight for Elfman to win.

 

[Seven777]

Fair enough, completely forgot that part, missed it even after skimming through the chapters quickly, but still doesn;t change the fact once he was serious, he would have.beat her.

Had they already beaten a bunch? The only one that looks like it was going down was one hit by Mira, and the rest where still going pretty strong by the looks of it.

You saying he wouldn't have much more trouble soloing Lucy and Wendy at the same time doesn't make any sense. Kyria one shot the two of them in a second. Elfman couldn't do that at all, no matter how tanky he was, and with Wendy Elfman gets beat imo. Again, Elfman's only solid feats throughout the series have been durability based and Wendy would boost the damage Lucy could do and do plenty of her own.

I think we are going around in circles here. I don't see an argument to be made that he has significant enough attack power to make this an easy fight for him, and even if his attack was much higher, he still wouldn't win nearly as easily as Kyria did. I think eventually he would get the job done when Lucy ran out of power, but he's not walking through her either, which is why I won't consider him with the top of the guild unless he actually does something impressive on screen.

I disagree. Imo Erza is out of Ajeel's league, if he wasn't immune to swords a single meteor swing of Benizakura would end him.

That's what Cana said

By more trouble I don't mean he beats them as quick as Kyria, I mean at the end of the fight he will be about as fatigued as Kyria was after her fight with them, or slightly more since I don't think he's quite Madmole level.

Even if you were to argue that Lisanna did as much damage to Ajeel as Elfman did, which I find incredibly unlikely, Elfman would still have half the offense required to put down a spriggan, I don't think Lucy is at that level, not after her performance against Jacob or even Brandish.
As for Elfman being top of the guild, I don't think he's that level either, but I have the top of the guild(like Gajeel, Mira, Gray, Erza) stomping most spriggans, while Elfman can at most get a high diff win with outside help.
But you're right, we're not really going anywhere, we've gone over pretty much everything at this point. Good talking to ya.