Discussion Lucy's Star Dress

Kiki

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I so want there to be a CSK stardress. It will look like an Erza re-quip and be totally badass.
Yea I wonder too if there is CSK form. Lucy holding a big blade would be cool.

I like Virgo,Aries and Aquarius Star Dress.
It's unfortunate we still have yet to see Aries form in action. I wonder what that form could do..
 

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I love all her star dress i just wait for Cancer and Scorpio :P
I so look forward to Gemini form, since I consider Gemini a celestial spirit that can't be taken lightly. Gemini is dangerous.
 

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My thoughts is since stardress boost Lucy's power ....I wonder if Lucy could do this ( just a theory) while in Gemini stardress form , summon Gemini then transform him into Lucy then use stardress too and open one spirit( Gemini Lucy). Then the real Lucy summon two more spirit since she can now summon 3 spirit espiecially now in her stardress.....then there are four spirit and stardress Lucy she would be unbeatable...
 

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My thoughts is since stardress boost Lucy's power ....I wonder if Lucy could do this ( just a theory) while in Gemini stardress form , summon Gemini then transform him into Lucy then use stardress too and open one spirit( Gemini Lucy). Then the real Lucy summon two more spirit since she can now summon 3 spirit espiecially now in her stardress.....then there are four spirit and stardress Lucy she would be unbeatable...
Nice theory man and i think it's plausible :) Many people already ahead of Lucy even with her star dress and 4 spirits she still can't do much but it will surely increase her potenial in a fight.
 
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nichendrix

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Nice theory man and i think it's plausible :) Many people already ahead of Lucy even with her star dress and 4 spirits she still can't do much but it will surely increase her potenial in a fight.
IIRC she could already use 3 spirits and one stardress. Sincerelly, the only thing Lucy really need to become very overpower isn't more spirits, but to be able to easily use Uranometria with its full power whenever she wants to.
 

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My thoughts is since stardress boost Lucy's power ....I wonder if Lucy could do this ( just a theory) while in Gemini stardress form , summon Gemini then transform him into Lucy then use stardress too and open one spirit( Gemini Lucy). Then the real Lucy summon two more spirit since she can now summon 3 spirit espiecially now in her stardress.....then there are four spirit and stardress Lucy she would be unbeatable...
No stardress Lucy can open 3 gates at once minimum. The reason I say Minimum is because when she summoned 3 spirits she was running low on magical power due to Franmarth absorbing majority of her energy prior. Not just that but also each celestial spirit cost a different amount of magical power to summon.

Cancer: 51
Aquarius: 100
Virgo: 43
Taurus: 52
Horologium: 16
Lyra: 18
Plue: 1

So yea even Pre SO she would have been able to summon Virgo/Taurus atleast together. I don't know where the other Celestial spirits summon ranks.

I assume Stardress doubles Lucy's magic reserves. So in stardress she should be able to summon 6 spirits Minimum.
 

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We saw with Aquarius that star dress gives just Lucy the magical power from her spirits. It would only double her reserves if the spirit has as much MP as Lucy. An Aquarius star-dress can potentially double her reserves or more, while a Virgo star-dress shouldn't give an effect anywhere near that level.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
My thoughts is since stardress boost Lucy's power ....I wonder if Lucy could do this ( just a theory) while in Gemini stardress form , summon Gemini then transform him into Lucy then use stardress too and open one spirit( Gemini Lucy). Then the real Lucy summon two more spirit since she can now summon 3 spirit espiecially now in her stardress.....then there are four spirit and stardress Lucy she would be unbeatable...
Lucy can summon 3 spirits, but doing so was shown to be pretty exhausting back in Tartarus (it might have changed now). She can summon Gemini and 1 other spirit, then have Gemini summon 2-3 spirits. Summoning 3 spirits would likely put Gemini in a bad shape. Lucy herself can summon an additional spirit, but that might put her in a bad shape. Like someone pointed out, it's really more useful for Lucy to learn how to cast powerful spells like Urano Metria or even fight using star-dress. Lucy's spirits themselves aren't really that powerful. Having 4-6 spirits wouldn't make her unbeatable, when you consider Spriggan 12 members like Neinhart can summon like 6-10 Historias and some of them are like Hades, Ur, Kyouka, and Azuma. And of course, people like God Serena can solo the Ishgar Saints and Jura.
 
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I am not sure if the stardresses are that straightforward. As far as I can tell stellar spirits have power depending on the user. However they also have power of their own. We saw loki fight of his own power when he joined grey during the S class trial. And he barely beat zoldeo with it. By the manga's current standards that is not a great deal of magic power considering that was even before lucy got second origin, let alone the boost she got from training during the year fairy tail was disbanded. If lucy is only tapping into the innate power spirits have through dresses then they clearly do not have the reserves to double lucy's current MP, or at least shouldn't. And even then the logic would only work if the spirits when summoned use exclusively lucy's power. If they use their own power added to lucy's then using the stardress would not really represent a benefit as the spirit would be using magic to power up lucy which would then be powering up the spirit. The stardress needs to work as a standalone boost for it to make sense rather than rely on the actual power spirits have.
 

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I am not sure if the stardresses are that straightforward. As far as I can tell stellar spirits have power depending on the user. However they also have power of their own. We saw loki fight of his own power when he joined grey during the S class trial. And he barely beat zoldeo with it. By the manga's current standards that is not a great deal of magic power considering that was even before lucy got second origin, let alone the boost she got from training during the year fairy tail was disbanded. If lucy is only tapping into the innate power spirits have through dresses then they clearly do not have the reserves to double lucy's current MP, or at least shouldn't. And even then the logic would only work if the spirits when summoned use exclusively lucy's power. If they use their own power added to lucy's then using the stardress would not really represent a benefit as the spirit would be using magic to power up lucy which would then be powering up the spirit. The stardress needs to work as a standalone boost for it to make sense rather than rely on the actual power spirits have.
This is how it was explained.
I think Lucy has her own MP and her spirits have their own MP. When Lucy summons a spirit, she can make them more powerful with her own MP. When Lucy uses a star-dress, she can borrow MP from her spirits. Star Dress simply gives Lucy the ability to use her spirits' power so that she can play an active role in combat, and not be so vulnerable.

Certain spirits are weaker than Lucy. Certain spirits might be stronger than Lucy. I believe a Spirit like Aquarius is stronger than Lucy by herself. That's why Lucy needs Gemini's help to cast Urano Metria and it wasn't as powerful as it was against Angel, whereas with Aquarius' power it killed base Jackal. It was never stated that star dress doubled Lucy's power, and to be honest most of them shouldn't. Only Aquarius' or maybe Loke's should.
 
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nichendrix

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As far as I understand how Celestial Spirit Magic works you're all getting some things of it wrong. As far as the manga explained, celestial spirit magic is the ability to use your own magic to open celestial gates and to bring celestial spirits to Earthland, since celestial spirits normally doesn't have a earthly form or means to use their power in the mortal realm, they need to borrow the magical power of the caster in order to materialize and to use their magic. So their MP is always the same as the summoner, so if someone like a Spriegan or Zeref could summon a celestial spirit, the spirit would be as strong as he is without the spirit. Also if they don't use the magical power of a caster to open their gate they could only materialize for a small amount of time, and with only a fraction of their full power.

Star Dress doesn't increase Lucy's magical power, nor it increases her spirit's magical power, it just means that she has enough MP to summon her spirits with a level of power that it could lend her a little bit of their powers so she can use the same magic they can use. It at best means that Lucy is getting ever closer to the amount MP their spirits possess in the celestial realm, not that they suddenly could give her more MP, they still use her MP, and the Star Dress is also using her MP, since it is cast by a spirit that at that moment is using her MP as if it was his own.

There is no double power, as far as we've seen there is no difference in the amount of MP each spirit consumes, nothing like that, it is just Lucy's MP. Her MP is like a container full of water, every spirit is a faucet opened and draining water from the container. If she opens too much faucets, the container will be spent faster, also if she opens a faucet too much (giving too much of her MP to a spirit by making it using stronger powers), it would also drain the container faster.

Lucy's power itself doesn't change if she is using star dress of if she is using multiple spirits, it is just the same, and her spirits aren't insanely powerful because currently she doesn't have insane amounts of MP, like Natsu or Laxus.
 

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Virgo said it increases Lucy magical power and Lucy already made it clear that each spirit cost a different amount to summon when explaining celestial spirit magic to Natsu. Not to mention the stats Hiro provided.

Also the Celestial spirits magic is 100% dependent on the summoner as Gemini power is 100% affected by Lucy's. who Gemini can and cannot transform into 100% depends on Lucy's magical reserves. The celestial spirit depends on Lucy magical reserves as when the CSK became weaker when Lucy began to lose magical power.
 

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I really want to see CSK Star Dress in action.It should be a huge power boost.I love Virgo and Aquarius Star Dress too.
 

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Lucy's MP should not be the same as her spirits. It says here that the Spirit King gave transfered Aquarius's magical power to Lucy, meaning that Aquarius had her own reserve of MP.

I still think the way I explained it fits the bill. Lucy's spirits get stronger as Lucy gets stronger because Lucy adds her own magical power to them. Naturally, the more power Lucy can afford to give her spirits, the stronger they become. Also naturally, spirits who are stronger would require Lucy more power to summon. A spirit like Gemini might have very little magical power on their own, so they tax their magical power from their owner. This effectively makes Gemini's limit whatever their owner's power level is. A spirit like the Celestial Spirit King has more magical power than any Celestial Spirit Mage, they can do stuff that the spirit mage themselves can't.

Star Dress lets Lucy borrow her spirits' magical power. It probably lets Lucy convert her own magical power to fuel the star dresses abilities. Effectively, it makes Lucy less of a target, and lets her fight more hands-on. I do think certain star dresses has the potential to double Lucy's power level. For example, a CSK star dress should more than double Lucy's power. However, there's nothing that implies that a Virgo or Taurus Star Dress would achieve the same effect. Taurus and Virgo aren't stronger than Lucy as an individual. Even if you were to add all of their power to Lucy, it still wouldn't double it. Which means that if Lucy's power is doubling, it would be for no apparent reason.
 
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My favourite star dresses in order:

1). Sagittarius

Don't doubt about this. I really like the design of Sagittarius Star Dress and it looks way cooler than any other we've seen zo far.

2). Gemini

3). Aquarius

4). Leo

5). Virgo

6). Taurus

7). Aries

Taurus Star Dress and Aries Star Dress are really ugly........

 

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My favourite star dresses in order:

1). Sagittarius

Don't doubt about this. I really like the design of Sagittarius Star Dress and it looks way cooler than any other we've seen zo far.

2). Gemini

3). Aquarius

4). Leo

5). Virgo

6). Taurus

7). Aries

Taurus Star Dress and Aries Star Dress are really ugly........
For me all star dress are nice xdd Taurus Star Dress is my favourite XD
 

nichendrix

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Lucy's MP should not be the same as her spirits. It says here that the Spirit King gave transfered Aquarius's magical power to Lucy, meaning that Aquarius had her own reserve of MP.
You're trying to transform an exception into the rule.

They have their own MP in the Celestial World, there they wield their full power all the time, but in the mortal world their power is bounded to Lucy's MP, she puts a limit in their maximum MP. They could not be more powerful than the person opening the gates, that's also why she could not summon more than one at the beginning of the story since she is too weak to meet the minimum MP required to summon more than one spirit and why when she unlocked second origin she could not only bring more spirits at a time but their powers were stronger than before.

An analogy that could be made is that Celestial Spirits area like a summon on a RPG game, a Level 1 summoner would summon summoning a wolf would summon a familiar that doesn't have much HP, much MP and much Attack, a level 99 summoner, summoning the same familiar would summon him with stats far stronger. You can say that the level 99 summoner is summoning the familiar at its full power, while the power of the familiar of the level 1 summoner is tied to the power of its caster.

Summoning the Spirit King is the exception to this rule, that's why she have to sacrifice one of her golden keys in order to be able to do it. This requirement to sacrifice a key probably bypasses the requirements necessary for the spirit to come to the mortal world, also when Lucy summoned the Spirit King, she was already exhausted of her own MP, which means that when the Spirit King was summoned he in fact it seems that he has transferred Aquarius own MP in order fill Lucy's magical container for her to fight alongside him. Even so, it seems that even if he came with his full powers and on his own, it still has something to do with the amount of power Lucy could wield, since it still have a time limit for him to be in the mortal world.

I still think the way I explained it fits the bill. Lucy's spirits get stronger as Lucy gets stronger because Lucy adds her own magical power to them. Naturally, the more power Lucy can afford to give her spirits, the stronger they become. Also naturally, spirits who are stronger would require Lucy more power to summon. A spirit like Gemini might have very little magical power on their own, so they tax their magical power from their owner. This effectively makes Gemini's limit whatever their owner's power level is. A spirit like the Celestial Spirit King has more magical power than any Celestial Spirit Mage, they can do stuff that the spirit mage themselves can't.

Star Dress lets Lucy borrow her spirits' magical power. It probably lets Lucy convert her own magical power to fuel the star dresses abilities. Effectively, it makes Lucy less of a target, and lets her fight more hands-on. I do think certain star dresses has the potential to double Lucy's power level. For example, a CSK star dress should more than double Lucy's power. However, there's nothing that implies that a Virgo or Taurus Star Dress would achieve the same effect. Taurus and Virgo aren't stronger than Lucy as an individual. Even if you were to add all of their power to Lucy, it still wouldn't double it. Which means that if Lucy's power is doubling, it would be for no apparent reason.
That's makes no sense, MP is always was always described as a container that can be filled with magical particles and that the power of a mage is defined by the size of his container, a mage could increase the size of his container by training, and sometimes he could use concentrated forms of eternano particles in order to wield powers beyond their normal limits, like when Natsu ate a piece of Etherion charged Lacrima or when Wendy ingested Face's air with a higher concentration of eternano particle.

There is no indication whatsoever that summoning a Spirit could increase the amount of MP a Celestial Spirit Mage could wield, but there are a lot of instances where it was implied that the strength of a spirit is tied to the amount of magical power the mage has and that there is a limit to how much time and how much of their own MP they could use in earthland without relying on the power of their casters. For instance in chapter 46 Lucy clearly states that the power her spirits could wield when summoned are dependent on the amount of power she has which in turn depends on the amount of training she does, she even states that if she trains enough she she could summon her spirits with powers stronger than Natsu's, later in chapter 72 Loki states that a Celestial Spirit could not survive long outside the spirit world and that they depend on their summoners power in order to survive here, if they stay without being summoned or without relying on their summoner's power they would eventually die, and in chapters 114 and 146 it is shown that if Lucy MP reaches zero only stronger spirits like Leo and Virgo could summon themselves without relying on Lucy's power.

Outside the Manga, in the Anime version also there is an arc where Ophiucus uses an item to control the other spirits and they have to fight them in the Spirit World, the spirits gave a very hard time fighting against the likes of Natsu, Erza, Mirajane and Elfman with their second origin unlocked. Which means that there, with their full MP they are far stronger than what was shown during Lucy's fights.
 

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You're trying to transform an exception into the rule.

They have their own MP in the Celestial World, there they wield their full power all the time, but in the mortal world their power is bounded to Lucy's MP, she puts a limit in their maximum MP. They could not be more powerful than the person opening the gates, that's also why she could not summon more than one at the beginning of the story since she is too weak to meet the minimum MP required to summon more than one spirit and why when she unlocked second origin she could not only bring more spirits at a time but their powers were stronger than before.

An analogy that could be made is that Celestial Spirits area like a summon on a RPG game, a Level 1 summoner would summon summoning a wolf would summon a familiar that doesn't have much HP, much MP and much Attack, a level 99 summoner, summoning the same familiar would summon him with stats far stronger. You can say that the level 99 summoner is summoning the familiar at its full power, while the power of the familiar of the level 1 summoner is tied to the power of its caster.

Summoning the Spirit King is the exception to this rule, that's why she have to sacrifice one of her golden keys in order to be able to do it. This requirement to sacrifice a key probably bypasses the requirements necessary for the spirit to come to the mortal world, also when Lucy summoned the Spirit King, she was already exhausted of her own MP, which means that when the Spirit King was summoned he in fact it seems that he has transferred Aquarius own MP in order fill Lucy's magical container for her to fight alongside him. Even so, it seems that even if he came with his full powers and on his own, it still has something to do with the amount of power Lucy could wield, since it still have a time limit for him to be in the mortal world.



That's makes no sense, MP is always was always described as a container that can be filled with magical particles and that the power of a mage is defined by the size of his container, a mage could increase the size of his container by training, and sometimes he could use concentrated forms of eternano particles in order to wield powers beyond their normal limits, like when Natsu ate a piece of Etherion charged Lacrima or when Wendy ingested Face's air with a higher concentration of eternano particle.

There is no indication whatsoever that summoning a Spirit could increase the amount of MP a Celestial Spirit Mage could wield, but there are a lot of instances where it was implied that the strength of a spirit is tied to the amount of magical power the mage has and that there is a limit to how much time and how much of their own MP they could use in earthland without relying on the power of their casters. For instance in chapter 46 Lucy clearly states that the power her spirits could wield when summoned are dependent on the amount of power she has which in turn depends on the amount of training she does, she even states that if she trains enough she she could summon her spirits with powers stronger than Natsu's, later in chapter 72 Loki states that a Celestial Spirit could not survive long outside the spirit world and that they depend on their summoners power in order to survive here, if they stay without being summoned or without relying on their summoner's power they would eventually die, and in chapters 114 and 146 it is shown that if Lucy MP reaches zero only stronger spirits like Leo and Virgo could summon themselves without relying on Lucy's power.

Outside the Manga, in the Anime version also there is an arc where Ophiucus uses an item to control the other spirits and they have to fight them in the Spirit World, the spirits gave a very hard time fighting against the likes of Natsu, Erza, Mirajane and Elfman with their second origin unlocked. Which means that there, with their full MP they are far stronger than what was shown during Lucy's fights.
It was stated that the Spirit King transferred Aquarius' magical power to Lucy. This meant that Aquarius had her own reserve of magical power. It was also stated that Star Dress lets Lucy borrow magical power from her Celestial Spirits. Leo was already summoned when Lucy donned her star dress, meaning Lucy was using Leo's power. So saying spirits have their own reserve of power is not really the exception here.

Why would MP being a container that fills with Ethernano be a contradiction to what I'm saying? I'm saying that both Lucy and her spirits have their own supply of magical power. When Lucy summons her spirits, she can power them up with her own magical power. The stronger Lucy is, the stronger her spirits are. When Lucy uses star dress, she borrows magical power from the spirits. I'm not saying Lucy's power randomly increases when she summons a spirit. If anything, summoning a spirit and maintaining its gate open costs Lucy magical power. I'm saying Lucy is borrowing her spirits magical power whenever she uses star dress. You're correct in saying that spirits are limited by Lucy's magical power. In order for a spirit to remain in on earth land, their gates must be open. Keeping the gates open requires constant effort on Lucy's part. That's why Virgo was forced to leave when the Avatar members put magic cancellation cuffs on Lucy. That being said, it's entirely possible for the spirits themselves to open their own gates with their own power. That's why Leo could still function after Kallen's death, and probably why CSK could still function after Lucy ran out of MP fighting Jackal.

I think it's entirely possible for you to summon something far stronger than yourself. Take Arlock and Ikusa-Tsunagi, for example. Do you really think that Arlock is individually as powerful as the god of war he summoned? No. I think Arlock has his magical power, and the War God has its own. In much the same way, Aquarius is a spirit that likely contains more magical power than Lucy herself has. Loke would also be a candidate for this. I don't give much value to the anime fillers, unless they are referenced in some way by the manga. That being said, how do you know that being in the Celestial Spirit World doesn't simply just give the spirits an advantage because they're constantly being replenished? .
 
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My favourite star dresses in order:

1). Sagittarius

Don't doubt about this. I really like the design of Sagittarius Star Dress and it looks way cooler than any other we've seen zo far.

2). Gemini

3). Aquarius

4). Leo

5). Virgo

6). Taurus

7). Aries

Taurus Star Dress and Aries Star Dress are really ugly........
Taurus Star Dress is Sexy and powerful.

I wonder what kind of power will Cancer and Capricorn give Lucy. I'm guessing Cancer will be super speed and scissors (but I hope she gets crab shaped Daggers instead) Capricorn just seems like a wildcard what ability could he give her?
 

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It was stated that the Spirit King transferred Aquarius' magical power to Lucy. This meant that Aquarius had her own reserve of magical power. It was also stated that Star Dress lets Lucy borrow magical power from her Celestial Spirits. Leo was already summoned when Lucy donned her star dress, meaning Lucy was using Leo's power. So saying spirits have their own reserve of power is not really the exception here.

Why would MP being a container that fills with Ethernano be a contradiction to what I'm saying? I'm saying that both Lucy and her spirits have their own supply of magical power. When Lucy summons her spirits, she can power them up with her own magical power. The stronger Lucy is, the stronger her spirits are. When Lucy uses star dress, she borrows magical power from the spirits. I'm not saying Lucy's power randomly increases when she summons a spirit. If anything, summoning a spirit and maintaining its gate open costs Lucy magical power. I'm saying Lucy is borrowing her spirits magical power whenever she uses star dress. You're correct in saying that spirits are limited by Lucy's magical power. In order for a spirit to remain in on earth land, their gates must be open. Keeping the gates open requires constant effort on Lucy's part. That's why Virgo was forced to leave when the Avatar members put magic cancellation cuffs on Lucy. That being said, it's entirely possible for the spirits themselves to open their own gates with their own power. That's why Leo could still function after Kallen's death, and probably why CSK could still function after Lucy ran out of MP fighting Jackal.

I think it's entirely possible for you to summon something far stronger than yourself. Take Arlock and Ikusa-Tsunagi, for example. Do you really think that Arlock is individually as powerful as the god of war he summoned? No. I think Arlock has his magical power, and the War God has its own. In much the same way, Aquarius is a spirit that likely contains more magical power than Lucy herself has. Loke would also be a candidate for this. I don't give much value to the anime fillers, unless they are referenced in some way by the manga. That being said, how do you know that being in the Celestial Spirit World doesn't simply just give the spirits an advantage because they're constantly being replenished? .
The problem is that you're misinterpreting the line "It isn't quite the same as Erza's magic, but it does allow me to borrow a bit of my Celestial Spirit's powers". She is stating that she is borrowin their powers, in other words she could use the same magic powers their spirits use, that is she could use the same magic they use, she is not saying that she is borrowing magical power from them and adding to her own magical power, which is what you were saying.

I've never said they don't have a magical power, on the contrary, I just daid that they could not be summoned with more MP than Lucy herself is able to wield at the time, that is, Lucy's magical power is the upper limit of how much of their MP they can wield outside the Celestial World. Which is exactly what Lucy says to Natsu when she gets the Sagitarius key in chapter 46 and which sh discusses briefly with Loki in chapter 72.

It is a contradiction because you stated that when she uses star dress her magical power doubles, which is a contradiction with the fact that her eternano container at any given time is fixed, unless she spends some time training to expand it, it would not grow bigger just because she is using star dress. At best by using her spirits' magic she wields new set of magical techniques that makes her more effective in combat, that is more powerful, but it do not boost her magical powers per se.

We don't really know what kind of magic Arlok used to summon Ikusa-Tsunagi, we don't really know it works on the same principles that Lucy's celestial spirit magic, so it isn't related unless stated otherwise, but even if we assume that the powers works on the same principle, the fact that the war god was summoned by a weakling limited the amount of power it could wield in earthland, is the fact that Natsu, who is not the strongest guy around and isn't a god slayer, could defeat it with a single blow without fighting seriously and without even using his full power. It seems to me that the Aquarius Star Dress the CSK granted for Lucy during their fight didn't operate on the same rules as the other Star Dress shown thus far. First she was nearly without MP at the time and when she got it, suddenly it seems that her MP was replenished, also we know Loki is stronger than Aquarius (he is the strongest of the golden keys), yet the Aquarius Star Dress was way more powerful than the Leo one, all of this points that the Spirit King did more than just give her the normal Aquarius star dress, it seems that he gave her the celestial spirit magic equivalent of Wendy or Natsu eating concentrated eternano particles, that's why I said that it is an exception, not the rule.
 

Asorx

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英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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Star Dress is like take over Spirit + Reqiup.
 
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