Discussion Luffy's Growth Rate & Stats

[Nie Li]

Ragnarok deals less damage after Luffy masters CoC coating. Coincidence? No. Because CoC invisible coating boosted Luffy's durability throughout the fight, whcih already discredits any comparison between that fight and his fight with Katakuri. The Luffy on the rooftop would steamroll Katakuri (unless Katakuri gets subsecuently buffed between arcs, but here we're talking about Katakuri at the level that we saw him in WCI).

@BlackTiger, you're persistently comparing "Thunder Baguas" that, as someone pointed out already in page 1, aren't even the same technique as you're cutting out part of the name in the second attack, and you're handpicking details, like the "He wasn't using haki to defend because there was no shading" despite many panels in that very fight in which they use CoC coating with no shading. That's a pretty common attitude on this fandom, but arguments like that fall flat.

Rather than looking at the facts and arriving and a conclusion from them, you're starting from the conclusion that you want to arrive at: "Luffy was just as fast and durable against Kaido as he was against Katakuri", and you're only looking at whatever little thing may point at that, while ignoring the massive amount of details that point in the opposite direction. So it's obvious no agreement will be reached on this thread.

 

[BlackTiger]

Ragnarok deals less damage after Luffy masters CoC coating. Coincidence? No. Because CoC invisible coating boosted Luffy's durability throughout the fight, whcih already discredits any comparison between that fight and his fight with Katakuri. The Luffy on the rooftop would steamroll Katakuri (unless Katakuri gets subsecuently buffed between arcs, but here we're talking about Katakuri at the level that we saw him in WCI).

@BlackTiger, you're persistently comparing "Thunder Baguas" that, as someone pointed out already in page 1, aren't even the same technique as you're cutting out part of the name in the second attack, and you're handpicking details, like the "He wasn't using haki to defend because there was no shading" despite many panels in that very fight in which they use CoC coating with no shading. That's a pretty common attitude on this fandom, but arguments like that fall flat.

Rather than looking at the facts and arriving and a conclusion from them, you're starting from the conclusion that you want to arrive at: "Luffy was just as fast as durable against Kaido than he was against Katakuri", and you're only looking at whatever little thing may point at that, while ignoring the massive amount of details that point in the opposite direction. So it's obvious no agreement will be reached on this thread.

Conqueror coating does not boost durability. Luffy could tank Ragnarok because Kaido got weaker. There is no statement in the manga that conqueror coating boosts durability. Oden had conqueror coating but he got 1 shot by Kaido. So how does that mean conqueror coating boost durability? There is no invisible conqueror coating.

This is Luffy coqted his left hand with conqueror and we can see the lighting streak on Luffy's left hand.

Another example Luffy coated his forehead with conqueror we can see lightning streak on Luffy's forehead.

We did not see any lighting streak on Luffy's head when he took Ragnarok. Why didn't Oda draw lightning streak on Luffy's head if Luffy used conqueror coating to defend against Kaido's Ragnarok? Won't Oda draw the lightning streak so readers stop assuming?

Luffy only boost was attack power. He would still struggle to hit Katakuri. If Katakuri wanted to he could prevent Luffy from using Snakeman mode. Luffy would still win but it won't be a low diff.

whether you like it or not, the reason that Luffy could tank Ragnarok was because Kaido got weaker since fresh Kaido 1 shot Luffy with Ragnarok.

So no it does not discredit the comparison with Luffy vs Katakuri fight.

@BlackTiger, you're persistently comparing "Thunder Baguas" that, as someone pointed out already in page 1, aren't even the same technique

I'm comparing FRESH base kaido with WEAKENED hybrid Kaido. So even though Kaido got hybrid boost, his attack power and speed decreased since he got weaker confirmed by Yamato.

and you're handpicking details, like the "He wasn't using haki to defend because there was no shading" despite many panels in that very fight in which they use CoC coating with no shading.

No conqueror coating always have lightning streak. Where is the lightning streak on Luffy's head when Luffy took Ragnarok here?

Rather than looking at the facts and arriving and a conclusion from them, you're starting from the conclusion that you want to arrive at: "Luffy was just as fast as durable against Kaido than he was against Katakuri",

How did Luffy become faster? He trained armament haki at Udon. The he ate meats and eating meats won't increase Luffy's speed. How did Luffy become durable? He only fought fodders at Udon. Training armament haki won't boost Luffy's durability. There should be lightning streak on Luffy's head if he coated his head with conqueror. Luffy did not get more durable. Kaido just got weaker especially his attack power.

while ignoring the massive amount of details that point in the opposite direction. So it's obvious no agreement will be reached on this thread.

SO what details?

- Luffy got faster and more durable in Udon when his training was armament haki?
- Luffy got faster and more durable when he fought Kaido 1 on 1 the third time when what he did before that was only eating meats?
- Luffy coated his head with conqueror when he took Ragnarok when we did not see lightning streak from Luffy's head?

These are the conclusions which are not shown in the manga.

I don't see any details. I only see made up fanfiction.

 

[LaGOAT]

No it changes a lot. That means base Carrot>Fishman Island Zoro based on Zoro vs Carrot in Zou. That means base Carrot>Fishman Island Luffy as well. Luffy and Zoro trained 2 years under Rayleigh and Mihawk only to come out of the time skip weaker than base Carrot. Your logic is flawed.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2022 ---

Fixed that no need to thank me.

Luffy never tanked Thunder Bagua. He almost passed out when he took the first Thunder Bagua (ch. 1042). He died when he took the second Thunder Bagua. What you said never happened in the manga.

How is my logic prove that carrot stronger than luffy and zoro?

 

[BlackTiger]

How is my logic prove that carrot stronger than luffy and zoro?

If Carrot can give Zou Zoro a good fight then much weaker Fishman Island Zoro should be easy for for her let alone her sulong form.

 

[LaGOAT]

If Carrot can give Zou Zoro a good fight then much weaker Fishman Island Zoro should be easy for for her let alone her sulong form.

A good fight? They just clash lool ur logic is flawed

 

[BlackTiger]

"But but but Kaido was in hybrid when he blitzed post Udon Gear 4 Luffy so Kaido got faster not Luffy's speed was consistent" I reread Luffy vs Lucci and hybrid was not a huge boost in speed.

Base Lucci got blitzed by Gear 2

Spoiler: Base Lucci speed

Hybrid Lucci still got blitzed by Gear 2

Spoiler: Hybrid Lucci speed

Lucci's fourth form Seimei Kikan still got blitzed by Gear 2 despite the speed boost the hybrid gives

Spoiler: Seimei Kikan Lucci speed

So where does this notion that Kaido was in hybrid so he was much faster come from when hybrid Lucci still got blitzed by Gear 2? Kaido got faster in hybrid but the speed boost was not that significant on the other hand Kaido being weakened nerfed him so much that Kaido Ragnarok from 1 shoting ch. 1009 post udon Luffy to failing to 1 shot ch. 1037 Luffy with Ragnarok after Kaido got weaker. Kaido's nerf was very significant while Kaido's speed boost in hybrid was not that significant.

A good fight? They just clash lool ur logic is flawed

Base Carrot could keep up with Zoro's speed. You kept insisting Luffy's speed was on a whole other tier from WCI to Wano which is only 1 arc. Now let's use your powercreep logic. Fishman Island to Zou was 3 arc. If 1 arc Luffy's speed was on a whole other tier (from WCI to Wano) then Zoro's speed was much slower from Zou to Fishman Island.

So how will Fishman Island Zoro who was much slower than Zou Zoro using powercreep logic could hit base Carrot. Sulong Carrot was on another level she would solo Sh crew (including monster trio) in Fishman Island.

 

[LaGOAT]

"But but but Kaido was in hybrid when he blitzed post Udon Gear 4 Luffy so Kaido got faster not Luffy's speed was consistent" I reread Luffy vs Lucci and hybrid was not a huge boost in speed.

Base Lucci got blitzed by Gear 2

Spoiler: Base Lucci speed

Hybrid Lucci still got blitzed by Gear 2

Spoiler: Hybrid Lucci speed

Lucci's fourth form Seimei Kikan still got blitzed by Gear 2 despite the speed boost the hybrid gives

Spoiler: Seimei Kikan Lucci speed

So where does this notion that Kaido was in hybrid so he was much faster come from when hybrid Lucci still got blitzed by Gear 2? Kaido got faster in hybrid but the speed boost was not that significant on the other hand Kaido being weakened nerfed him so much that Kaido Ragnarok from 1 shoting ch. 1009 post udon Luffy to failing to 1 shot ch. 1037 Luffy with Ragnarok after Kaido got weaker. Kaido's nerf was very significant while Kaido's speed boost in hybrid was not that significant.




Base Carrot could keep up with Zoro's speed. You kept insisting Luffy's speed was on a whole other tier from WCI to Wano which is only 1 arc. Now let's use your powercreep logic. Fishman Island to Zou was 3 arc. If 1 arc Luffy's speed was on a whole other tier (from WCI to Wano) then Zoro's speed was much slower from Zou to Fishman Island.

So how will Fishman Island Zoro who was much slower than Zou Zoro using powercreep logic could hit base Carrot. Sulong Carrot was on another level she would solo Sh crew (including monster trio) in Fishman Island.

Carrot dodging a casual swing from zoro it just means she not oneshotted lol how does that mean that keeping up with zoro when all they did was clash???

 

[BlackTiger]

Carrot dodging a casual swing from zoro it just means she not oneshotted lol how does that mean that keeping up with zoro when all they did was clash???

Just mean much slower Fishman Island Zoro cannot hit her at all using powercreep logic. Which also means Sulong Carrot who is much faster would solo much weaker Fishman monster trio. At least be consistent with your argument if you think powercreep happens in each arc.

 

[LaGOAT]

Just mean much slower Fishman Island Zoro cannot hit her at all using powercreep logic. Which also means Sulong Carrot who is much faster would solo much weaker Fishman monster trio. At least be consistent with your argument if you think powercreep happens in each arc.

Except that ur logic flaw because zoro was causal not serious. We never Fishman island zoro go all out.

 

[BlackTiger]

Except that ur logic flaw because zoro was causal not serious. We never Fishman island zoro go all out.

Carrot was also not in her sulong form. She still could keep up with Zou Zoro speed. in base form. Much weaker Fishman Island Zoro gets destroyed by Sulong Carrot. Stick to your powercreep logic

 

[Fox666]

Just mean much slower Fishman Island Zoro cannot hit her at all using powercreep logic. Which also means Sulong Carrot who is much faster would solo much weaker Fishman monster trio. At least be consistent with your argument if you think powercreep happens in each arc.

What the hell are you arguing over?

Brook is faster than Zoro, but speed alone is not enough. Brook stood no chance against Ryuma because of the difference in the weight behind their attacks.

The case with Carrot is similar... she has plenty of feats related to speed and agility. But she wouldn't last longer in an actual fight.

 

[BlackTiger]

What the hell are you arguing over?

Brook is faster than Zoro, but speed alone is not enough. Brook stood no chance against Ryuma because of the difference in the weight behind their attacks.

The case with Carrot is similar... she has plenty of feats related to speed and agility. But she wouldn't last longer in an actual fight.

Brook has faster running speed not combat speed. Carrot's combat speed in base was similar with Zoro's combat speed in Zou.

The case with Carrot is not similar since Carrot has faster combat speed while what Brook has is better running speed. Base Carrot could keep up with Zou Zoro's speed in Zou. So with powercreep logic base Carrot destroys Fishman Island Zoro. Sulong Carrot solo Fishman Island monster trio

 

[Sachsenhesse]

The hell is this thread still going.

I will never understand how Carrot and Zoro are even here...? Also Fi Zoro gets underestimated hard. He oneshotted Predrugs Hody underwater without probs and even with his opponent this arx(they only other druguser) he just played with.

Also wasnt Carrot vs. Zoro just one slash? That only means she is faster then predrughodyunderwater.

The case with Carrot is not similar since Carrot has faster combat speed while what Brook has is better running speed

Dude what. You realize brook is our omoi wa shinderu dude. He cuts faster then his opponent realizes they are cut.

 

[BlackTiger]

The hell is this thread still going.

I will never understand how Carrot and Zoro are even here...? Also Fi Zoro gets underestimated hard. He oneshotted Predrugs Hody underwater without probs and even with his opponent this arx(they only other druguser) he just played with.

Also wasnt Carrot vs. Zoro just one slash? That only means she is faster then predrughodyunderwater.

If Carrot can keep up with Zou Zoro then how do you think much slower Fishman Island Zoro has a chance to land a hit on her let alone on her sulong form? If powercreep does not exist I agree Fishman Island Zoro low diffs base Carrot but since powercreep does exist, base Carrot easily blitz much slower Fishman Island Zoro.

Dude what. You realize brook is our omoi wa shinderu dude. He cuts faster then his opponent realizes they are cut.

He never showed great combat speed. Only great running speed. Carrot combat speed was similar with Zou Zoro combat speed. And by powercreep, base Carrot destroys Fishman Island Zoro don't you know that?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

You can only use powercreep on people you know were going full out. Zoro wasnt even serious in FI, as far as we know he was the same there, then in Dressrosa.

Katakuri did show everything he got and would now be a good challenge to sanji or maybe zoro, but not luffy. Luffy knows how to counter him and had become even stronger. Kaidou does know how to use futuresight too... so here is Katakuri also down. I dont know whats not to get there.

Also thinking brook not having battlespeed, when he is all about battlespeed and not power is just... wow.

Get used to, that kata will go down in the foodchain quite fast from now on.

 

[BlackTiger]

You can only use powercreep on people you know were going full out. Zoro wasnt even serious in FI, as far as we know he was the same there, then in Dressrosa.

Katakuri did show everything he got and would now be a good challenge to sanji or maybe zoro, but not luffy. Luffy knows how to counter him and had become even stronger. Kaidou does know how to use futuresight too... so here is Katakuri also down. I dont know whats not to get there.

Also thinking brook not having battlespeed, when he is all about battlespeed and not power is just... wow.

Get used to, that kata will go down in the foodchain quite fast from now on.

At least quote me if you want to counter my argument or you don't want to get embarrassed? Zoro went all out against Mihawk in Baratie compared to Sanji who was chilling in East Blue so you agree Zoro got powercreep in Baratie and he was still relative to Baratie Sanji in strength? Do you agree Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro?

Can Brook dodge Zoro attack and counter attack like Carrot did? You are confusing running speed with combat speed.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Why should i extra quote you? This is you trollthread so i know youre gonna read it.

Brook could probably do it yes.

I dont even know anymore what shells town is, thats so far in the past. Katakuri will be nearly forgotten in 1 year too, so you will understand i hope.

 

[BlackTiger]

Why should i extra quote you? This is you trollthread so i know youre gonna read it.

Brook could probably do it yes.

I dont even know anymore what shells town is, thats so far in the past. Katakuri will be nearly forgotten in 1 year too, so you will understand i hope.

Because you cannot answer what I asked? If you post something in a thread to debunk a post of certain user without tagging/quoting that user that means you don't want that user to know that you debunk his argument. It's because you don't want to get embarrassed. Shells Town is a town where Zoro got almost executed by Helmeppo. Zoro fought Mihawk on Baratie and he went all out. You agree Zoro got powercreep since he went all out correct? And Zoro who went all out was relative to Sanji who was chilling in Baratie? Do you agree that Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro if Zoro got powercreep?

Oh I see it's a troll thread because my thread debunks your powercreep argument. Or maybe you are reading manga the wrong way all this time. If I create a thread about 1 + 1 = 2 to debunk 1 + 1 = 3 that doesn't mean I create a troll thread. It's either I create a thread to educate people like you or your perception about 1 + 1 is wrong this entire time.

No need to shit on Zoro by saying Brook could dodge Zoro attack and counter Zoro humiliating him just to support your powercreep argument. Brook could not do that against Sheepshead. Is Sheepshead>Zou Zoro?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

So shell town zoro did go all out? From what i remember he is there the same as baratie.

Oh no its a trollthread because you bring in other characters and even try to start a sanji vs. zoro debate, which is... in this forum... always bait.

 

[BlackTiger]

So shell town zoro did go all out? From what i remember he is there the same as baratie.

Oh no its a trollthread because you bring in other characters and even try to start a sanji vs. zoro debate, which is... in this forum... always bait.

Oh so it is a troll thread because bringing Zoro destroys your powercreep argument? Zoro went all out against Mihawk in Baratie and he was still relative to Sanji who was chilling in Baratie? So Baratier Sanji>pre Baratie Zoro do you agree? Since Zoro went all out against Mihawk that meant Zoro got powercreep but he was still relative to Sanji who was chilling in Baratie.