Games Mafia Game 58 - Umineko: How to play 13 - END GAME

[Spirit]

If this is the case then that top phrase should have been written in Purple truth. If Gry is to be believed, then 2 notes is now fact. If that is the case then because it was written in blue that means that at the time, it was a flat out lie. So does this mean that there is a way to create new notes?

 

[GrySun]

Rather that I could use what I think your role was to interpret how you answered my question [as in how much you'd try and mislead me].

Oh. Nah don't expect my role to help you determine anything from my posts. I've both played and hosted myself several games, by now my playstyle during the day is pretty much the same regardless which role I got. Even as a Detective I was always more active(but back then I was less experienced). Only direct hints about my role would be different from game to game I imagine.

 

[Spirit]

But the again, if new notes can be made shouldn't it have been written in pink (partial) truth?

 

[Elusia]

Can it? It doesn't say that it can make new notes. Well, that's what I'm assuming according to the blue truth.

 

[Vandred]

Just a note I want to make, if we go by things, then Note D was probably the one with the townies and Note O was the one with the Mafia. So if a townie targeted Vandred, then it could just be because they found out Vandred is a mafia and targeted him, but the Note holder was blocked which probably saved Vandred from dying tonight. Add to that how he wanted Niichan to be investigated by Dets when it was an obvious slip-up. Niichan would've been given the result of innocent because he's the mafia boss and by this, he saves Niichan. Also looking back at it, in Day 2 both he and Erin(who is confirmed mafia) were the only ones to vote for xnut. This all leads me to believe Vand is mafia.

I've lost count of how many times I've explained that I was pushing for niichan to be lynched on the next day no matter the result. I even invited Note holders to kill him at night to spare us the trouble - and if you believe Gry, the fact that there's my name on one of them means that I had no guarantee that wouldn't have happened.

Besides, even if niichan had turned out as innocent, the whole point of confirming a Det's sanity lies in comparing your result of "Innocent" or "Guilty" with the actual role of your target, who needs to be dead for you to be sure, and then figuring out whether you're Sane, Insane or either of the worthless ones. So, once again, please stop using this nonsensical argument to accuse me. Because it is nonsense.

I'll try to catch up with all the rest as soon as possible, but there's already a lot of stuff to reply to... And interesting new details keep piling up.

 

[Lambu]

Ok, here's my summary, I guess the only advantage it can offer in contrast with Zim's post would be chronology. I’ve simplified a little the conflict between Gry and niichan since its… huge, still got the most important points of it.

Day 2

- Gry explains that either gnut or niichan is mafia since they were the ones who defended Spriggan and the ones who voted him. Also states that they debating the point of there being mafias in the ones who didn’t vote Spriggan in the last moments of the day was a big slip up. Then explains it has to be niichan since gnut made a lot of hints about his role while nii went straight to chanllenging his point and pull votes on Empty (279)
- gnut has the feeling Vandred and niichan are behind Demons death. (280)
- Wyis says to keep an eye on Kato, he might have lied about his role (285)
- desin thinks Demon’s death wasn’t because of a mafia but a townie since he is a suspicion target (286)
- Arjuna thinks there should be some focus for the inactive players like Elusia&Co. Marmalade says it could be a matter of timezones. Still they both agree the inactives are shady (289 to 293) Elusia tells them she has time issues (295)
- Niichan answers Gry, he says if he was mafia wouldn’t have tried to pretect Spriggan like that in the final moments and would have framed Empty strongly. He says he could have jumped on the wagon to avoid suspicion but he didn’t. (291)
- Niichan answers Vandred in a matter of the DN (296) Vandred replies him and later asks who does nii think is suspect after yesterday’s lynch, since he’s in the spotlight. (298)
- I Lambu say we should start talking about roles and reveal I have active not useful at the moment one. (297)
- Gry tells niichan that his post convinced him of him being mafia. He says nii ignores many of the points towards Spriggan being mafia and went straight to the point of “wether the ones who voted him are mafia”. Afterwards tells gnut to catch up to the matter. (300)
- Niichan says he suspects Empty since she thinks Empty was “faking activity” and her reason to vote on Erin. Also says Orgz attacking her and being revealed townie speaks against her. Also suspects xnut for the post where he votes Gry saying “Spriggan slipped up”, which seems like major mistake. (301) - Gry replies saying nii’s slip up is even bigger than Spriggan’s, though admits xnut post is shady (302)
- Niichan says there’s no point in arguing with Gry and says he’s jumpig excessively on him, he wont discuss with him anymore. Gry says nii is the best lynch option by far and that him avoiding the reasons in his first post was the thing that made the decision. (303-304)

- Monkey says his role only works in specific conditions against specific roles. (305)
- Pompom thinks Empty is suspect and wants to hear more from niichan and gnut (306)
- Belserion strongly attacks Empty (307) – I Lambu think gnut and niichan are not connected and that niichan is clearly suspect and I distrust him. I want to hear more from Empty and xnut (309)
- Gry attacks Belserion saying she misinterprets Empty’s posts on purpose. Bel replies she’s been keeping track of Empty’s behavior and that she’s suspicious regardless of interactions with niichan. - Niichan thinks Bel’s point is legit and wants to hear more on Empty and xnut. Gry thinks Empty cannot be mafia if nii suspects her, at most she is from a second mafia (310-313)
- niichan swears on a bunch of waifus he’s not mafia (good job ma boi) (315)
- Monkey thinks nii is suspicious but theres also a need to suspect gnut, xnut and Empty. (316) Gry thinks we shouldn’t focus on other targets now since following the niichan chain could be the key. Agrees on Empty and xnut being suspicious though. (318)
- syx badmouths me for my doubtful morality on waifus (not like I blame him though)
- Vandred thinks Gry’s idea of not focusing in anyone else is a bad play and something a mafia would aim for. Gry answers saying nii is the best lead to catch a heavily hit mafia and that its better to leave Empty and xnut case for D3 or a DN kill. (323-325) Monkey thinks its better to lynch someone we suspect now rather than inactives (327)
- EmptySoul appears, defends herself from Bel’s suspicions and niichan’s attack (330)
- Niichan seconds Vandred’s post about focusing in more targets (331) Pompom said she suspects Empty (332)
- Niichan and Empty keep their tension, Empty says her role is pretty lame but could be beneficial at some point maybe. (334)
- Zasz wonders if theres’s any suspect other than Empty. (335) syx votes EmptySoul even if he thinks niichan is the second most suspicious.
- Gry says at some point there will be the need to reveal who uses the DN in order to take advantage of its mechanic. Tells Zasz the point of the day is either lynch niichan/xnut or wait for investigation. (338)
- desin says he never had his role before (339)
- Vandred thinks pressuring Empty and xnut could be more productive than focusing solely on niichan, think the strategy Gry proposes might give too much advantage to an hypothetical second mafia. Also disagrees on revealing who holds the DN since it would backfire and its better to suggest targets rather than tell directly to the holder (340)
- Zasz says he has an active role and never had it before. He thinks there are other targets that need attention rather than Empty alone. (342)
- Gry thinks abandoning the niichan chain to pressure Empty and xnut doesn’t make sense, agrees with Vandred’s point on not letting a second mafia roam free easily, still thinks Vandred is weird for thinking about pressuring the other two when nii is such an obvious suspect. Disagrees with him in the DN thing (343)
- Niichan votes Empty - Monkey votes Niichan – Zasz votes Elusia cause inactivity (344-346-347)
- Empty remarks that niichan keeps attacking her with the same basis all over again (348) Zasz thinks the Empty case is made up by the mafia to distract, asks Gry about his role (351)
- xnut says his random vote was just random (352) and Gry seconds Zasz's idea of the Empty being a scapegoat for the mafia, he’s sure niichan will show as mafia (353)

- Vandred says he didn’t say we should leave niichan but keep focusing on other suspects too. He sees niichan more cooperative than Empty. Since Gry is so sure about niichan being guilty, Vandred proposes using niichan as a det investigation target. Says his role feels like a “return to the basics” one, very similar to the only other townie role he had. (354) he says "its similar to (insane) doc but less useful" (358)
- Gry says Vandred is contradicting himself when saying he wants to keep a talkative person alive rather than a silent one when he said it would be harder to get info from niichan. (357) Vandred replies saying he said pressuring niichan wouldn’t get anywhere and that he’s ignoring his points. (358)
- Erin proposes the possibility of the existence of lovers in the game (360) niichan keeps accusing Empty blahblah (Im skiping this plz) and Vandred remarks again the point of using niichan as an investigation target. (362)
- gnut thinks Vandred’s point doesn’t make sense, thinks that niichan was suspicious since the beginning. Votes niichan and theorizes about the existence of a single mafia and 3rd parties (363)
- Kato says he has reasons to be inactive in the game right after (364) (important role claim (?))
- Erin votes xnut (366) - Zasz doesn’t think niichan is that suspicious after all (368)
- Wyis asks Zasz if he knows the notes position (379) Erin and gnut discuss about lovers stuff in between. Wyis also tells Vandred that keeping niichan alive for tonight when his allegiance isn’t clear doesn’t make sense (385) gnut adds that Vandred wants to claim niichan has the death note to clear him (386)
- Gryffindor appears and thinks he’s not sure about EmptySoul, but suspects niichan, also remarks Elusia’s evasive play (388)
- Gry theorizes that if Niichan is revealed as mafia boss then Vandred is 100% mafia in his eyes. Says that he trying too hard to save niichan (391) Vandred agrees with niichan that Gry’s play might not be beneficial for town in the long run. Niichan says he doesn’t have the note (392-393)
- gnut doesn’t trust pompom, Zasz is so undecisive that its cute (400)
- Gry said he trusts gnut, me and Belserion for lynching Spriggan, maybe zimb for the newbie townie vibe, everyone else a mystery. (403) - Empty distrusts Elusia and of course niichan (lol) (407)
- xnut votekills niichan (408)

- Gry leaves instructions for the next day: Vandred is lynched if niichan is revealed as Mafia Boss unless Vandred has a very solid defense, or kill him with the note in order to not take time on lynching him. Thinks he might die tonight. (410)
- gnut asks Empty why did she like orgz post, the one of summary 1. (411) Elusia appears and says her role is pretty important (414)
- I Lambu say that I find this situation beneficial for the hidden mafias, but niichan is the highest suspect either way, lynching him is more productive than Empty at the moment, since him appearing as mafia would leave further leads. I votekill niichan (415)
- Zasz changes his vote to niichan (419) Gry encourages people to not get bland with niichan’s “confession” post (424) gnut answers to me why he voted monkey and kept his focus on Empty-xnut-monkey on D1 (425) Empty and gnut make up their differences (431)
- Gryffindor votes niichan, he found him suspicious from the start and todays actions make him the best option. (434)
- Marmalade admits lurking [lol] and votes niichan because he doesn’t believe his townie confession post (435)
- Wyis wonders voting between niichan, Empty and Vandred for several reasons (437)
- Vandred defends himself of Gry’s accusation saying he was one of the first people to build the Spriggan wagon. He says he only found an option to let niichan live for a single night and then lynch him. He also says Gry wants him dead for some reason and doesn’t want dets to check him but kill him before that. (439)
- I Lambu think Vandred’s logic about keeping niichan alive is faulty but I don’t think those two are together because they had very different intentions in D1. (440) Vandred answers me saying he just wants to test dets on niichan and then kill him afterwards since niichan’s a clear lynch target. (441) Wyis replies it would be better for dets to target more people instead of one alone. (442)
- Zimbardo’s superpost (443) (kudos to him)
- Belserion says niichan could have been useful to her the upcoming night but it will be good to have him dead, votes niichan (447). Wyis suspects me (hey! ) and zimbardo for not contributing to the discussion, prefers to lynch niichan fast to avoid indecision (451) Vandred fails to convince gnut (posts in between)
- Wyis thinks niichans attitude looks like Mafia Bomb, gnut is sceptic about it (posts after the last ones)
- Pompom doesn’t trust Gry’s wagon, she agrees with Vandred’s behavior being odd though. Doesn’t trust gnut a lot either and places her vote on EmptySoul. (461) - Wyis votes niichan and Vandred votes xnut and gives up on explaining his point - Both Arjuna and Kato vote niichan aswell (465-468)
- Zimbardo votes niichan and doesn’t suspect syx and pompom heavily, thinks Gry is the only trustable one. (471) Elusia and desin both vote niichan aswell (477) Empty votes niichan for obvious reasons (lmao) (478)
- Erin changes her vote to niichan in the last moment.

End of Day 2

 

[GB]

I did say something about my role, nothing deep though, just before your post :-( Maybe you missed it haha

Edit: typo

 

[GrySun]

Okay here goes nothing.

1. The player whose name is written in this Note, shall die by night
~
2. The player that holds this note must write down a name
~
3. The player has to pass on the Note to a player they haven't passed it to yet. The hosts pick someone randomly if the player doesn't
~
4. Obtaining the Note prevents you from using your primary role, and uses up your night action
~
5. The Note does not prevent you from making use of any secondary role. The Note can always be used
~
6. Failing to either write down a name or pass on the Note incurs 1 (+ Nights passed) penalty votes the next Day
~
7. You receive the Note during the start of Day and pass it on at the end of Night
~
8. The Holder of the Note shows up in investigations like a non-townie normally would
~
9. The kill failing incurs no penalties
~
10. If the Holder of the Note is lynched during the Day, the Note is destroyed along with them
~
11. If the Holder of the Note is killed during the Night, the Note is passed to a random member of the killing party instead
~
12. Passing on the Note for the third time and onward incurs 1 (+ Nights passed) penalty votes the next Day
~
13. These rules are exhaustive​

First, the 13 base purple rules, aka facts. They are very straight forward, but people still misunderstand them so let me put it even shorter:

Someone who has a Note must write a name in it and pass it to someone they haven't passed it to yet. You can't use your primary role while having a Note, you must use the Note instead. If you have a secondary role you can still use that(I take it this rule means if having both Notes I can kill with both since they both count as secondary roles). You get big penalties for not using the Note. You receive it at start of day, and pass it at the end of night. You show as non-townie to detectives if you hold a Note. Kill can fail, but that gives no penalties. Lynching the Note Holder destroys the Note forever, killing him at night has you snatch all his Notes for yourself. If you pass it a 3rd time you get a lot of penalties, which means Notes shouldn't be given to one player only.

The bare facts - The Purple Truth

"(...) the instructions in the Note are written in Purple Truth." (Lawlda, Day 1)
~
"This truth is technically the technical complete truth about the rules of the Note!" (Bern, Night 1)

"(...) if bad guests gather, the Holder forces their kill action through the Note... On all of them" (Bern, Night 1)​

Purple are things about the basic 13 rules, easy enough. 2nd line just says that's basically all there is to it, 3rd line says mafia can't do more than 1 kill just because they have 1 Note.

???? - The Pink Truth

"I found something note-like earlier." (Lawlda, Day 1)

"We need to lynch someone to get rid of it for good, (...)" (Bern, Day 1)
~
"If they have other bad guests around them, the Note will just drain their power too" (Aurora, Night 1)

"Other similarly powerful supernatural forces can overcome or at least tie with the Purple Truth." (Aurora, Night 1)
~
"(...) there's only one truth" (Lawlda, Day 2)

I take it that Pink truth are conclusions that can be reached from reading the 13 base rules? Needing to lynch someone to get rid of it, that mafia can't kill twice with 1 regular kill and 1 Note. Not sure how the part with "powerful supernatural forces can overcome or tie with the purple truth".

???? - The Blue Truth

"I gave it back to someone who seemed like a good guy." (Lawlda, Day 1)

"(...) but there is no free way to do that..." (Bern, Day 1)

"It would be nice if there were methods other than basically blind luck to get rid of the Note..." (Lawlda, Day 1)
~
"One of those rules basically stated that if they hold the Note, their Night Action becomes a Kill Action." (Bern, Night 1)

"A bad guest will have to Kill with the Note." (Aurora, Night 1)

"Something… Lambda said... Yeah, I don't feel the Note is safe" (Bern, Night 1)
~
"They gave up on figuring out the Note. I don't think they even tried..." (Lawlda, Day 2)

"I definitely handed out more than one Note" (Lawlda, Day 2)

"Rules 4, 5, 11 and 12… There's something there, yes?" (Aurora, Day 2)

"There's also rules that imply are ways to kill with two Notes" (Aurora, Day 2)

Blue is for some reason the truth we have the most text on. I take it these are just partially true, or rather there's several possible meanings from it. Lawlda said a good guy got it, but we know there's 2 Notes so she gave away 2. No free way.. not sure, but "free" could mean "easy". There are more ways than just blind luck to get rid of it, since the Note wielder could reveal or be investigated, or the previous holder could tell everyone who he gave it to. Night action turns into killing action, I guess that's correct? Same with people having to kill with it. Saying the Note is safe could mean several things, like the Note is currently with someone bad, or that someone who has the Note is close to being killed/lynched, or not safe simply as it being dangerous to us. We didn't really try figuring it out to be honest, but doesn't mean we gave up. Handing out more than 1 doesn't exactly tell us there's 2, so it is still with multiple meanings. Naturally there's stuff in the rules. And the last bolded part is probably rule 5, since both are secondary you can kill with both.


I tried.. Basically purple are facts, pink are conclusions from the rules, and blue are things with multiple ways to understand them. Maybe the next chapter will be helpful for more.

 

[Copy Panda]

By the way @TSPanda did you mark Erinyes name in full red on purpose? I found odd that Spriggan and niichan were marked differently, with the first letter only marked in red.

Those are Mango's posts, in mine theyre all fully coloured in the same shade of red. If this isn't the case it was a mistake and I'll fix it

 

[Gryffindor]

Chapter 1

Line 4: “the instructions of the note are written in Purple Truth”

Basically stating the obvious, purple=facts.

Line 11: “I found something note-like earlier”

This line was followed subsequently by:

Line 12: “I gave it back to someone who seemed like a good guy”
Seemed? Probably a hint that it’s mafia. This was followed by:

Line 13: You just gave away a note written in purple truth.
So does this mean there notes that are not written in purple truth?

Line 14 A: We need to lynch someone to get rid of it for good
This refers to rule 10 of the note. So the pink truth here is actually true.

Line 14 B: but there is no free way to do that

Line 15: It would be nice if there were other methods to get rid of the note
This line and the previous line imply possible consequences? Specifically “no free way”


Chapter 2:

Line 12: The truth is technically the complete truth about the rules of the note!
So this is just reiterating that purple truth are the straight up facts. The use of the word “technically” is iffy here, does it implies that there is an underlying unknown to the note, as in “technically these are the rules, but……”-idk if that made sense to anyone?

Line 14: One of the rules basically stated that if they hold the note, their night action becomes a kill action
Referring to rule 2 since you have to write a name down. The following two lines about a cute guest turning to a bad guest confirm a townie had it, I assume.

Line 18: A bad guest will have to kill with the note.
Pretty obvious.

Line 19: If they have other bad guests around them, the note will just drain their power too.
Not sure on this one. The closest I could relate it to was rule #4 which says you can’t use primary role if you have it, but that rule is for the individual holding the note.

Line 20: If bad guests gather, the holder forces their kill action through the note…on all of them
The context in this still refers to a group setting. So basically you have to AND can only use the note if you’re a bad guest. This clears up line 19 then.

Line 23: Other similarly powerful supernatural forces can overcome or at least tie with the purple truth
Supported by rule 9 and we now know a name was written and the kill failed.
Line 29: Something Lawlda said…Yeah I don’t feel the note is safe.
The first part refers to a mafia having the note, the second part is some sort of hint.

Chapter 3:

Line 12: They gave up on figuring the note, I don’t think they even tried
I think this is referring to the state of gameplay. So blue truth refers to gameplay events?
Line 15: There’s only one truth
LOL, idk.

Line 18: Definitely handed out more than one note
Confirmed.

Line 26: Rules 4,5,11,12 ..there’s something there, yes?
Ok, the few lines before talk about the note forcing itself out of the hands of its owner, then taking a look at the rules, these are the ones that point out the cons of the note.

Line 30: There’s also rules that imply there are ways to kill with 2 notes
Another hint?

So imo,
Purple truths are facts about the note.
Blue truths are about the state of the game/hints…but pink truths imply the same, though they seem to be more centered around the note.

This is all probably grasping at straws, but is what I've gathered so far.

 

[z.5]

Seeing as there are only 8 hours left and I dunno how busy I will be later on (probably very), I'm gonna put a prospective vote out now.

Votekill Vandred

Although I think his reasons weren't as inexplicable as GrySun, gnut, or others may feel they were - in light of niichan's position and the fact that detectives wouldn't have worked on him, I think it's pretty convenient for him to not have known about niichan's role.

I am still a bit hesitant, however. This is purely down to the note revelation.

This is solely because as his name was written in the note and he didn't die, it also could suggest his role as Bulletproof Townie. Unless he is a Mason/somehow found a way to convince someone to protect him. Maybe a doctor wasn't convinced by GrySun et al.?
I couldn't see any Mafia-specific invincible roles, like bulletproof, or saving roles, like doctor, in the list.

Either that or someone blocked the player with the note - through sheer coincidence; as they would have had to know that the attacker had a note, was targeting Vandred, and they were on Vandred's side, for it to be planned...

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

I've lost count of how many times I've explained that I was pushing for niichan to be lynched on the next day no matter the result. I even invited Note holders to kill him at night to spare us the trouble - and if you believe Gry, the fact that there's my name on one of them means that I had no guarantee that wouldn't have happened.

Besides, even if niichan had turned out as innocent, the whole point of confirming a Det's sanity lies in comparing your result of "Innocent" or "Guilty" with the actual role of your target, who needs to be dead for you to be sure, and then figuring out whether you're Sane, Insane or either of the worthless ones. So, once again, please stop using this nonsensical argument to accuse me. Because it is nonsense.

I'll try to catch up with all the rest as soon as possible, but there's already a lot of stuff to reply to... And interesting new details keep piling up.

That still counts as a mafia move man, you see the results of investigation, you know that niichan is mafia, so you will manage to know which Dets are the ones with sanity, or rather, a threat to you mafias. You'd drive the Dets into revealing themselves and then you could easily kill them. Sorry but you still didn't convince me. And quite honestly, at this point I don't think you can convince me.

 

[z.5]

'Convenient' in that niichan's role appeared to be the perfect counter to the reason (for keeping him alive) which Vandred was pushing.

 

[GrySun]

Don't forget guys, I have 2 kills I can and will do tonight. I'm already gathering my suspects and people I would use it on. If you have any recommendations or would like to present yourself as less suspicious now is the time to do so. What mafia probably think is that as long as they don't get lynched they're safe

Also here's a better summary with hopefully nothing missing.

Summary

Arjuna as Furfur -> claims Bulletproof
Belserion as Virgilia -> active role
Demonspeed as Kanon -> Doctor, Killed on N1
desin24 as Cornelia -> never had the role before which includes bulletproof, plain townie, mafia detective, hider, doctor, mafia escort
DiMaria Yesta as Gertrude -> Bodyguard
Elusia as Gaap -> Says her role is important, neutral about it, it's risky.
Emperor Spriggan as Dlanor -> Mafia det, lynched on D1
EmptySoul as Eva -> Said she's not mafia, she thinks its pretty lame but could be beneficial at some point. Died as Townie, maybe a respawning Jesus
Erinyes as Erika -> fits her somehow Mafia Strongman
gnut as Krauss -> Old role, had it before. His character is a real estate agent, part of his job is his role.
Gryffindor as Maria -> Pretty useless "at the moment" (saying that in day 3)
GrySun as George -> Not that useful and may end up be killed due to his role
Kato756 as Zepar -> Seems disppointed by his role, said the role itself that made him go WHY ?? Detective
Lady pompom as Ange -> doesnt llike her role. active role. interesting role, but she s afraid not to use it properly. Was in MG56 but not in MG55
Lambu as Rosa -> Active, not useful right now(with "right now" being day 2)
MarmaladeSky as Jessica -> role is rather passive, not unhappy about it
MonkeyD-Dragon as Natsuhi -> not a really helpful role as it works only in specific conditions against specific roles
niichan as Battler -> a pretty plain role Mafia Boss
Organizized as Rudolf -> Detective killed on N1
syx as Beatrice ->
Vandred as Kyrie ->a role that works similarly to (Insane) Doctor but less useful
WithYouInSpirit as Lion -> claimed a passive role, can affect other players permanently under the right conditions.
Xnut as Kinzo -> wants to stay alive and use his role(is this an active role claim?)
Zasz as Shannon ->very first time he gets this role. an active role
zimbardo as Hideyoshi -> role is designed for more experienced players, needs to predict which roles other people have to be useful.

@syx get over here and say more about yourself, your only hint was "I'm not mafia" which I won't even count as a hint to the role lol. Same with @xnut that what I fished out isn't really a role hint.
Also @Vandred you should probably just outright reveal your role at this point. Inb4 bomb or something silly.

Strange I recall liking ONE of niichan's posts when you were accusing him and also liking YOUR reply to it. I also recall seeing you ask me what I thought but unfortunately I had to leave. By the time I got back there were already 2 or 3 more pages and niichan had 7 votekills so I figured you weren't waiting with baited breath for my opinion on him since it was obvious he was getting lynched (which now seems to be working against me). Plus I gave my opinion when I votekilled him myself. Your arguments were convincing and honestly i suspected him since day 1 when he came in like the godfather trying to deflect attention from Spriggan.

You asked what I was. I'll tell you what I'm not and that's Mafia.

Oh I somehow missed this post as I was posting my own ones. Fair enough, though I've looked back on the posts. You tried making a case against Empty that day, here. Right inbetween of my argument with niichan. And then you posted this soon after. Almost all mafias we killed so far had an interesting tendency to vote for xnut, who you also call one of your suspects along with Empty in that post. Not accusing you, but I find it strange is all.

 

[Elusia]

I need another clarifications about the truths.
There's lines that goes like this:

...Can you say that in Purple?

*giggle* Of course, I can't say... that in Purple.

Want me to say it in Pink though?

...
Nah...
-----------
Very interesting scope here....

 

[Vandred]

Vand you want to help figure out the Note/chapter text/truths? You're probably better at that than I am.

It's not like I don't see what you're doing here, but sure. I just think there's little point in doing it now, if we're going to get an additional chapter before the day is over like yesterday, and after a bunch of people have already analyzed what can be deduced from what we have.

Empty wasn't killed by mafia, I'll tell you about that later.

Except you don't actually know that unless you killed her yourself. Her name in one of the Notes doesn't mean it was a townie who tried to kill her, just like my name being there doesn't mean it was a townie who targeted me. Or that anything of what you claim is true, despite how much everyone seems to blindly trust you.

Actually you being alive is extremely surprising with the knowledge I currently hold. As for me, they probably chickened out since I likely had protection or was baiting a kill on me.

That just makes it equally extremely surprising that "my mafia" would manage to pinpoint exactly the one player who targeted me with a Note, in your scenario...

Hah don't give me that attitude, after all thanks to you we did learn a lot from the bandwagon My plan this game was chaining lynches. Pressuring Spriggan had niichan slip up, pressuring niichan had you slip up. And now, by observing this day I expect to find 2 more mafias. I try to make sure I'm not empty-handed next day, and I'm not.

Oh I agree, that bandwagon is pretty telling. But it speaks more about you than me. You're the one who's misleading townies with arguments that just have no ground, and I wish they realized that the more they all follow you, the easier they make it for your mafia buddies to blend in with them. You're the one who thinks they're all fools... But yeah, I have faith in them. They'll figure you out sooner or later. Just as I have.

I admit the thing with Spriggan is the weakest part of my logic, but it's not like you tried very hard to make it escalate, just a bunch of people jumped on it. I'll be curious to see your words after the game on why you did that, if you really are mafia.

No, no, the version where I thrown every member of my mafia under the bus makes much more sense. Especially the part where I first happily sacrifice the invaluable Mafia Det without a second thought and then do my damnedest to delay the death of the Mafia Boss

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees you're so obviously reaching...

I didn't dodge any questions, that was my answer to your "is that protecting?". He didn't have a Note but he was Mafia Boss, dets wouldn't find anything on him and letting him live 1 more day would make people largely forget what he's being accused of, as well as there being other new suspects to draw people onto.

That's nonsense, and you know it. The town would never had let him go no matter what had happened, and neither would you.

They wouldn't need to care for the investigations themselves, they'd rather hunt the detectives with their kills, niichan would still keep us busy the next days. And don't pretend like you and niichan had a better target for us to lynch last day. You mostly went for Empty, who shows as Townie and probably a Jesus....

Nope, I "mostly went" for xnut, I barely mentioned Empty as a better target to pressure - not to lynch, nor did I ever say we should ignore niichan altogether. I clearly said that I didn't think pressuring him would make him betray any useful info, which in fact didn't happen. Not that he would have needed to when almost the whole town kept voting for him.

And don't act as if Empty wasn't one of the most suspected people yesterday, by yourself too.

Yes because I said so. Also I wasn't opposed to det confirming sanities, I was opposed to letting niichan live for such a bad reason when there's a lot more people they could check. I think you have a bad idea of how detectives should play. I never waste my investigations on people who will die soon or who are confirmed, but rather try getting a guuilty and an innocent result on my own. Which I managed to do in all my games as detective, it isn't even hard if you target the right people. It's only something I'd resort to doing if I kept getting guilty or innocent after targeting very different people, so I'd want to confirm whether I'm a useless det.

Oh yeah, Dets with a confirmed sanity is such a bad thing. Much better to have them rely purely on luck while wasting night after night. For non-townies, it surely is.

And wasn't it you who first proposed Dets checking their sanity on a confirmed townie should have been their utmost priority in the DBZ game? Ah, well, I guess that doesn't count. You were townie that game

What insurance do I need exactly? Are you accusing me of something here? And I didn't ask for doc protection, I just mentioned it so that everyone reads it. You know I always bait with my hints/words to bluff my way to survive nights and make mafias doubt what they should do.

You just answered yourself.

That still counts as a mafia move man, you see the results of investigation, you know that niichan is mafia, so you will manage to know which Dets are the ones with sanity, or rather, a threat to you mafias. You'd drive the Dets into revealing themselves and then you could easily kill them. Sorry but you still didn't convince me. And quite honestly, at this point I don't think you can convince me.

No, Monkey, I never said that Dets should have come out and said what they had found about niichan, not so early. That wouldn't make sense until they had found at least another mafia member, which means they should have risked coming out at the earliest from D4 (tomorrow) and onward.

Seeing as there are only 8 hours left and I dunno how busy I will be later on (probably very), I'm gonna put a prospective vote out now.

Votekill Vandred

Although I think his reasons weren't as inexplicable as GrySun, gnut, or others may feel they were - in light of niichan's position and the fact that detectives wouldn't have worked on him, I think it's pretty convenient for him to not have known about niichan's role.

I am still a bit hesitant, however. This is purely down to the note revelation.

This is solely because as his name was written in the note and he didn't die, it also could suggest his role as Bulletproof Townie. Unless he is a Mason/somehow found a way to convince someone to protect him. Maybe a doctor wasn't convinced by GrySun et al.?
I couldn't see any Mafia-specific invincible roles, like bulletproof, or saving roles, like doctor, in the list.

Either that or someone blocked the player with the note - through sheer coincidence; as they would have had to know that the attacker had a note, was targeting Vandred, and they were on Vandred's side, for it to be planned...

I'm not any of those roles. I only ask of you folks to try and see things from my perspective, assuming I'm townie, and that Gry is not. Then tell me what makes more sense for you.

 

[Lambu]

Actually, when niichan was going to get lynched yesterday I thought I would see a mafia lover revealed, that would have explained Vandred's intentions of keeping him alive a lot better. But since there was no lover stuff I am perplexed with the case.

@Vandred , why try so hard to save niichan?? That point of proving sanities on him had "some" actual logic but still very poor. I think dets investigating other targets would have gotten to the same place and without that much trouble of keeping a damn mafia alive. It would have even provided more names to the detectives looking towards D4. There was simply no real advantage of doing what you were asking for.

The fact that niichan was mafia boss doesnt help you either, it does seem like you knew niichan's role and just wanted to bait dets into a weird play.

And STILL, i cannot vote you yet. Its just impossible that you were in any way allied with niichan since you and Belserion were the ones who created the wagon on Spriggan. If you were in the same mafia as spriggan and niichan you would never have done that.

Which the other trend of thought would be to believe you are from a second mafia, I dont get how would you get advantage of protecting niichan if he was from another party. It just doesnt make sense and doesnt suit you. What the hell did you have in mind?

Seriously I dont get it, your behaviour fits perfectly with the one of a fellow mafia of niichan's but logic tells you cant be that. A second mafia wouldnt protect such a juicy lynch target like niichan either, just what are you thinking?!

I want to believe you are townie that just got in a terrible play, I really do, but wtf man...

I have some thoughts on the DN matter I want to discuss later.

 

[xnut]

I apologize I fell asleep before I responded, I do have an active role

 

[Marmalade]

I need another clarifications about the truths.
There's lines that goes like this:

...Can you say that in Purple?

*giggle* Of course, I can't say... that in Purple.

Want me to say it in Pink though?

...
Nah...
-----------
Very interesting scope here....

Makes me wonder... what exactly do those pink lines mean?
If purple lines are the truth, in what way do pink (and blue for that matter) differ? They're all (partial) truths, in one way or another right?

"Want me to say that in pink" - Almost makes it sound like it's more definite, perhaps in a bad way. I'm getting a negative vibe from this, thats all I know for sure.


----------------


Okay, so something different right now regarding people I find suspicious, people I have a weird feeling about.
I'm currently leaning towards voting for @Vandred - Nothing personal ofcourse. Everything said yesterday and today makes me feel like something is off. . The feeling isn't as convincing as the one I had with Niichan, and I do really want to make the right vote before the end of this day. Can't base everything off intuition. That's why I do want to give you a chance to convince me - and perhaps others as well - that you aren't the one we should be killing right now.
What would be our benefit if you live to see tomorrow, or perhaps the night phase.

I do have some other players I am not trusting at all, not because of what they say, but the manner things are said.

Saying "I'm an innocent townie" isn't going to cut it for me, though

 

[Zasz]

I thought that we had already decided who to lynch today.
Is there a reason for keeping Van alive?
Am I missing something guys?