Question Meliodas' relationship with the Demon King

Notice me Escanor senpai · Jul 19, 2016

kkck said:
To me this sounds a bit weird. I don't particularly get the impression the other demons actually want to be the demon king. Recent events bring to light one simple fact: the demon king is dead. And he is going to revive eventually. With that in mind, the demon king throne is not really up for grabs, there isn't a need for an heir. If there was a need for a demon king then odds are estarosa would have already taken that seat. With his power it is abundantly clear that he is more than qualified for the job. Even if his power does not compare to the previous demon king, he is certainly a league above other demons at least.

I doubt that, I think that in the end pre-betrayal Mel was infinitely stronger than Estarossa atm. And who do you think killed the demon king in the first place? Yep that would be Mel after he betrayed the demon clan, of course he got help but still. I'm pretty sure that Mel from back then was even stronger than Estarossa currently, and with his revival at hand he could possibly get all of his power back.

Perhaps the reason he's weaker now is because the demon king has been feeding off his emotions, which in a weird way made Mel weaker. :notsure

kkck · Jul 19, 2016

ladylola said:
I doubt that, I think that in the end pre-betrayal Mel was infinitely stronger than Estarossa atm. And who do you think killed the demon king in the first place? Yep that would be Mel after he betrayed the demon clan, of course he got help but still. I'm pretty sure that Mel from back then was even stronger than Estarossa currently, and with his revival at hand he could possibly get all of his power back.

Perhaps the reason he's weaker now is because the demon king has been feeding off his emotions, which in a weird way made Mel weaker.

I don't think we have any reason to believe meliodas was the one who killed the demon king. Looking at the chapters, the point is made that meliodas was qualified to be the demon king's successor. Why would that be relevant? Because the demon king is dead.

What I do find weird about meliodas is that he is the only one that seems to have transformations when it comes to his demon powers. All other demons seem to have their demon transformation as their base form and even estarosa seems to lack a transformation. Meliodas having transformations at all is incredibly weird. And perhaps also weirder is that no other demon seems to think meliodas transforming is unusual.

I did consider that the reason mel is weaker now is that the demon king has been literally feeding of him. Of course, the implication is that this time around meliodas will be even weaker than before. Although there has to be more to it because a weaker meliodas would be sort of moot. Even meliodas at the same PL as he just was is sort of far from what they need.

Notice me Escanor senpai · Jul 19, 2016

kkck said:
I don't think we have any reason to believe meliodas was the one who killed the demon king. Looking at the chapters, the point is made that meliodas was qualified to be the demon king's successor. Why would that be relevant? Because the demon king is dead.

...but it has been established that Mel fought the demon king alongside Dolor and Gloxinia, and why would he fight him if he didn't rebel against him?

So Mel after he betrayed the demons fought the demon king at some point, alongside Dolor and Gloxinia. He can't have fought him if he was already dead.
As for the demon king's succession, it doesn't have to be that he was already dead in order to think about his succession. Until proven otherwise, the demon king is not immortal. Just like all the other demons he has a long lifespan, but it's very likely he would die. For the demons the regular lifespan is 1000 years, even assuming the demon king could surpass that, like the fairy king surpasses the regular lifespan of that of fairies, it would still be that he has to die at some point, once he'd have exhausted his lifespan.

So as a demon king he'd have to look for a successor, or the other way around. The demons would have to look for his successor, and Mel aimed to be the most fearful demon. So who better than him to fill that job, even without the demon king being actually dead. And when we speak of kings, it's always that they have their succession in mind, and who will take their place on the throne if they died. I think it's false to assume that the demons don't have royalty, maybe not in the traditional sense since it seems to be a warrior oriented clan, meaning that only the strongest demons can sit at the top of the clan.

But still we have a demon king, who calls Mel his son, which would make him in turn a "prince". Whether you think Mel is literally the son of the demon king or not, he represented the only individual who could sit at the demon king's throne because of how powerful and fearsome he was, and there's no evidence that the demon king is immortal. So sooner or later he would die, and him and the clan in general can't just worry about that after he's already dead. It would happen much sooner, and of course it was stated in the manga that Mel fought the demon king alongside Dolor and Gloxinia 3000 years ago.He couldn't have possibly done that if he was already dead.

And them saying that Mel was the best candidate to be the next demon king doesn't necessarily mean that the real demon king was dead. It just means that Mel is the one who could fill in his shoes, that he had all the qualities necessary for that, without actually hinting that the demon king was dead.And again the succession is a matter that would be relevant even before the death of the current demon king, that's how it works in real life too. The reason why there's an emphasis on Mel being the only one right for the job, was because the demon king possibly had 3 sons, and I'm fairly sure it's the strongest of them who should be chosen as successor. Mel was just that 3000 years ago.

kkck · Jul 19, 2016

ladylola said:
...but it has been established that Mel fought the demon king alongside Dolor and Gloxinia, and why would he fight him if he didn't rebel against him?

So Mel after he betrayed the demons fought the demon king at some point, alongside Dolor and Gloxinia. He can't have fought him if he was already dead.
As for the demon king's succession, it doesn't have to be that he was already dead in order to think about his succession. Until proven otherwise, the demon king is not immortal. Just like all the other demons he has a long lifespan, but it's very likely he would die. For the demons the regular lifespan is 1000 years, even assuming the demon king could surpass that, like the fairy king surpasses the regular lifespan of that of fairies, it would still be that he has to die at some point, once he'd have exhausted his lifespan.

So as a demon king he'd have to look for a successor, or the other way around. The demons would have to look for his successor, and Mel aimed to be the most fearful demon. So who better than him to fill that job, even without the demon king being actually dead. And when we speak of kings, it's always that they have their succession in mind, and who will take their place on the throne if they died. I think it's false to assume that the demons don't have royalty, maybe not in the traditional sense since it seems to be a warrior oriented clan, meaning that only the strongest demons can sit at the top of the clan.

But still we have a demon king, who calls Mel his son, which would make him a "prince". Whether you think Mel is literally the son of the demon king or not, he represented the only individual who could take sit at the demon king's throne, and there's no evidence that the demon king is immortal. So sooner or later he would die, and him and the clan in general can't just worry about that after he's already dead. It would happen much sooner, and of course it was stated in the manga that Mel fought the demon king alongside Dolor and Gloxinia 3000 years ago.

I think the key issue here is that death isn't a final thing for the demon king. If it was then one of the commandments would necessarily be the demon king. Being dead does not stop the commandments from serving the demon king right now so there is little reason to think that wasn't the case 3000 years ago. Basically, meliodas could have been fighting the demon king 3000 years ago in the same manner he is doing so today. With what we know we can't even rule out the demon king dying of natural causes long before meliodas even betrayed him.

Also consider the circumstances under which the 10 commandments were defeated. Where was the demon king at the time? Of course, dead for whatever reason. And the demon clan at the time had the upperhand when it comes to the war, that is why a huge effort by all clans was made to seal them. If the demon king is as powerful as we think and he was alive at any point before the demons were sealed it is kinda hard to see how they did not just own everything.

Notice me Escanor senpai · Jul 19, 2016

kkck said:
I think the key issue here is that death isn't a final thing for the demon king. If it was then one of the commandments would necessarily be the demon king. Being dead does not stop the commandments from serving the demon king right now so there is little reason to think that wasn't the case 3000 years ago. Basically, meliodas could have been fighting the demon king 3000 years ago in the same manner he is doing so today. With what we know we can't even rule out the demon king dying of natural causes long before meliodas even betrayed him.

Also consider the circumstances under which the 10 commandments were defeated. Where was the demon king at the time? Of course, dead for whatever reason. And the demon clan at the time had the upperhand when it comes to the war, that is why a huge effort by all clans was made to seal them. If the demon king is as powerful as we think and he was alive at any point before the demons were sealed it is kinda hard to see how they did not just own everything.

He was dead because Mel(alongside Dolor and Gloxinia) fought him, and Mel possibly killed him. Why would Dolor and Gloxinia even bother with the demon king, if that didn't happen right when the Holy war started? So it is like I said, that Mel rebelled against the demon king, and later on killed him. Whether he can come back or not is not relevant. We can't say that Mel would have fought the demon king, if he was already dead, and that couldn't have happened before his betrayal, before the Holy war, because Mel was still with the demons back then.
So it must have happened after the Holy war started, which is the direct result of Mel's betrayal. And it was stated that the Goddess clan got the other clans to join them, in trying to defeat the demons, so Dolor and Gloxinia's involvment with Mel, and them confronting the demon king, is tied to the Holy war.

It's not too hard to figure out, Mel betrayed the demons for whatever reason, then he went on and fought the demon king alongside Dolor and Gloxinia before they joined the demons.Actually it's quite possible they died in the war and met the demon king in purgatory, and were converted by him.But it's very possible Mel succeeded in defeating the demon king and killing him, which is why he's in the purgatory right now.
Then the demon king cursed Mel, so he can restore his power by feeding on Mel's emotions. Because why would he curse him if he didn't die by his hand, and he didn't need to find a way to restore his power?
Does that make sense to you? . Because there's absolutely no reason for Mel to fight the demon king if the latter was already dead.And logically such a fight would have only happened after Mel's betrayal, not before.
So everything points out to Mel not just fighting the demon king and surviving to tell the tale, but that he actually succeeded and killed him .

After Mel defeated the demon king, he could have colluded with the Goddess clan to seal the demons. I never said the seal would have happened while the demon king was still alive.So it's likely the demon king was taken out first, by Mel. Then the seal happened.

AiNana · Jul 19, 2016

About Mel getting weaker and weaker, well, I don't believe in that. Didn't the demon king tell he only takes Mel's emotions? That will be big trouble for the world. Becoming calloussnes and disregard for life that is.