Fantasy Mercophobia vs Igneel

[WoWfan]

Acnologia had long since removed from something as simple as doing something for the sake of others (albeit in a wrong way) but that does not qualify as PoF because he is doing it for his sake whether he thinks it or not it is not his choice, it is the choice of the magic itself, it decides when PoF is used, because PoF is for positive emotions, in contrast with Curses that thrive on Negative emotions. And a guild is suppose to be a place of fun and laughter which are positive feelings, that is what Mavis is going with, do not be so simple about everything when they have deeper meaning. Igneel most certainly has PoF, he is fighting for others, humans, his son and to rectify his mistakes, that is well deserving of PoF, Acno does not get this since he is evil through and through, he does not want anything more than destruction and prove he is king. What makes you assume that Igneel’s feats are invalid just because he can use PoF, it is a legitimate power in FT verse, it just doesn’t help him at all in this both fights. Igneel would still lose to Merc though as he had higher feats even while weakened

 

[LaGOAT]

This is getting ridiculous this my last response ur just using headcanon and excuses at this point. I read. Chapter 296 it said “feeling and bonds that surpass pure power” https://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/296/18
by what the manga said sting situation follows that category so goes gray anything U say after that is going against the manga 2. where does it say positive emotions? in fact anger is consider negative emotions natsu gets mad if some1 hurts his friends. By ur logic every fight from the a guild member is using POF

 

[Axiomus]

So every good guy that is fighting for a good reason has POF? Well fine, so long as you agree that Igneel biting off Acnologia's arm is a perfectly legitimate feat. Igneel has better feats than Mercphobia. Igneel's roars are larger than Mercphobia's roars. Igneel physical attacks can actually deal damage to Acnologia. Igneel can actually trade blows and duke it out with Acnologia for an extended period of time, and not go down in just 4 hits.

There isn't a single one of Mercphobia's onscreen attacks that would actually damage Igneel. His roar was tanked by Natsu. His water pillars were tanked by everyone. Natsu swam his way out of Mercphobia's waves, and Ignia swam his way out of Mercphobia's whirlpool. The only thing that is semi-impressive about Mercphobia was him lifting the sea, and this doesn't translate into anything usefull. It's not an ocean, mind you. The word ocean was never used in either translation. Both the Weekly Sorcerer and Mangastream used sea as it's translation. This sea-lifting feat isn't even that impressive when you realized that Mercphobia actually dropped all water on the city of Elmina. Far from crushing the coastline with the force of multiple continents, it barely caused any damage to the city. The civilians were actually happy that he was putting out some of Ignia's flames. If you dropped continent's worth of water on a city in real life, the civilians living there would have their spine crushed into their feet.

 

[WoWfan]

Legitimate feat but not enough to show that he is capable of winning since even PoF did not help him out. Even Igneel’s roar is smaller than a mountain compared to the average Dragon’s roar that can bust mountains. I can rip an arm off too but that does not make me capable of lifting an ocean. Natsu was on Acno’s level when he got the power up and Merc was 50% that power. So even with PoF, Igneel was not even close to that level of strength. Mangastream is hardly reliable, even with looking at the kanji it would also mean ocean, just other kanji can mean both two different words in different contexts. Even Ignia evaporated most of the water as you. Can see vapor all around him a the area, it was a miracle that they survived at all.

 

[Axiomus]

Igneel ripping off Acnologia's arm more than proves that he can beat Mercphobia that fought Natsu.

The point is that Igneel's roar is larger than Mercphobia's roar. Mercphobia's roar wasn't anywhere near mountain level. Mercphobia's roar couldn't even seriously damage Natsu before he even ate Ignia's flames. In fact, most of Mercphobia's hits on Natsu was from before Natsu ate Ignia's flames. Once Natsu ate Ignia's flames, the only thing Mercphobia could land on Natsu was a tail whip which pretty much did nothing.

You cannot rip off an arm. A professional UFC fighter with someone in an armbar would not be able to literally rip off an arm. Walking out of a fight with a limb missing is about as extreme of a difficulty you can have in a fight while still winning. Mercphobia isn't able to give Natsu anywhere near this level of injury.

I almost forgot that I had the Japanese raws saved up. The character that was used to describe the sea is 海, pronounced umi or kai depending on the context. This is the same character used in God Serena's "Sea king Dragon Slaying Magic" which is written as 海王の滅竜魔法 (kai-o no metsu-ryu maho). In Japanese, if we wanted to refer to the ocean we would make sure to modify the word sea with the character for "large" 大 (da). Ocean would be written as 大海 (o-umi), which literally translates it to "big sea". Or we would combine the character of sea with something grande and big like 海洋(kai-yo), which translates to "sea expanse". Pacific ocean for example would be 太平洋 (great flat expanse)

Spoiler: Mercphobia's sea being described using the character 海

 

[WoWfan]

Igneel did not beat Acno though, that would be more convincing than a thousand arms being ripped off. So you are saying size does matter? So that means that a regular dragon is stronger by default as his roar dwarfed the size of mountains where as Igneel does not? Those are two different unrelated powers that happened in both occasions. I can rip off a person’s arm, applying enough force to do so, a person’s arm is not indestructible you know, and a UFC would go through rounds of cheating to accomplish a win on their own turf. It does have the umi which are the small characters for hiragana at the end of the kanji which would make it as an ocean or sea, so the context would be either way would bey synonymous with each other.

 

[Axiomus]

Igneel did not beat Acno though, that would be more convincing than a thousand arms being ripped off. So you are saying size does matter? So that means that a regular dragon is stronger by default as his roar dwarfed the size of mountains where as Igneel does not? Those are two different unrelated powers that happened in both occasions. I can rip off a person’s arm, applying enough force to do so, a person’s arm is not indestructible you know, and a UFC would go through rounds of cheating to accomplish a win on their own turf.

And Mercphobia did not beat Natsu with Ignia's flames or Skullion or Kyria. Igneel ripping off Acnologia's arm is still many times more impressive than any of Mercphobia's showings, which are all losses. You think you have the strength to physically rip an arm off an average adult male? The point still stands that Acnologia losing an arm proves that Igneel was an extremely difficult opponent for him. Mercphobia isn't able to give Natsu nearly this amount of trouble.

I'm not saying size is the only thing that matters, but Igneel's roar against Acnologia was larger and Mercphobia could not harm even base Natsu with his roar. Igneel was not aiming to blow up a mountain. He was aiming at Acnologia. Natsu without Igneel's power can smash the war god Ikusatsunagi with FDK demolition fist, and the god of war is much larger than a mountain. Natsu with have been much more powerful when he used Igneel's power to fight Zeref.

It does have the umi which are the small characters for hiragana at the end of the kanji which would make it as an ocean or sea, so the context would be either way,

Lol no. Hirigana is just there to help clarify how words are read becuase most kanji words have multiple pronunciations. Kai is the traditional pronunciation from chinese (the Chinese would pronounce 海 as hai). The hiriganaうみ (umi) still translates to sea.

 

[WoWfan]

Merc was not even 50% when he fought Skullion as he did not even go into the berserk state, if Natsu can beat Skullion, yet can’t beat 50% then by that logic, Skullion did not fight 50% Merc, it’s called transitive property. So by that logic a regular dragon is stronger than Igneel because it’s roar is larger than his, and yet Igneel’s roar did nothing as well, and Natsu is much stronger than when he was before. Natsu still used Igneel’s power as he literally called upon it. Because the UFC fighters don’t have magic and don’t have any handicaps before the fight starts. The kanji can still mean mean one or the other as it also means large wide, vastly gathered, etc., even before previous chapters say that it was an ocean that cities have been sunk under in other translations , which ocean still makes sense given the calcing with Etherion being multi-continent Level, but even without it, it still gets up to Multi-Continent level, whether as 50% or full power.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Natsu didn't beat Skullion. Where did you get that.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 30, 2019 ---

There are no multi-continental stuff. He lifted a sea worth town level water.

 

[WoWfan]

Natsu most certainly beat him, why else do you think they had to retreat? That is considered a victory, most of the water was evaporated by Ignia, it is still considered ocean worth

 

[Axiomus]

Merc was not even 50% when he fought Skullion as he did not even go into the berserk state, if Natsu can beat Skullion, yet can’t beat 50% then by that logic, Skullion did not fight 50% Merc, it’s called transitive property. So by that logic a regular dragon is stronger than Igneel because it’s roar is larger than his, and yet Igneel’s roar did nothing as well, and Natsu is much stronger than when he was before. Natsu still used Igneel’s power as he literally called upon it. Because the UFC fighters don’t have magic and don’t have any handicaps before the fight starts. The kanji can still mean mean one or the other as it also means large wide, vastly gathered, etc., which ocean still makes sense given the calcing with Etherion being multi-continent Level, but even without it, it still gets up to Multi-Continent level, whether as 50% or full power.

Mercphobia was at 50%. He just wasn't being controlled by Touka and didn't use his dragon form. The magic power was still there. Mercphobia even said that what Touka took wasn't his magic power, but his control over it. Besides, I am comparing Mercphobia's human form to Natsu with Igneel's power when he fought Zeref. The power in Natsu's arm was a lot less than 50% of Igneel's full power, seeing as Igneel was already exhausted after having fought Acnologia.

I never said size was everything. Igneel wasn't roaring at the mountain. He was roaring at Acnologia. Acnologia took the brunt of the blast and then got blasted towards the mountain. Motherglare's roar phased right through Atlas Flame and hit the mountain directly. Two different outcomes. Natsu had no reaction to Motherglare's roar, but was thoroughly impressed by Igneel's. There's a huge difference between base Natsu and Acnologia. Acnologia had immense resistance to magic, which is why he was immune to Igneel's flames. Natsu had no resistance to water magic, and he still tanked Mercphobia's roar just fine.

Both weekly sorcerer and mangastream translation groups translated 海 as sea. The official translation group translated 海 as sea when they translated God Serena's Sea King Dragon Slaying Magic. I am reading the kanji as a chinese-japanese person, and I am reading 海 as sea. Look, I suppose you can use the word "sea" to mean ocean. In casual conversation when you're not concerned about scientific accuracy that's perfectly okay. But you're trying to say that the manga definitively tells us that Mercphobia is lifting a body of water that is as large as the scientific definition of an ocean. It simply doesn't. At best it's a vague interpretation if you ignore linguistic accuracy. It isn't supported when you actually look at the amount of water Mercphobia dropped on Elmina, which didn't even fully flood the city.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Natsu didn't beat Skullion. He heavily damaged Madmorl while Erza Kyria. Skullion knew he was outnumbered and with Madmorl and Kyria injured. He retreated.

 

[Seven777]

So it's confirmed as a sea not an ocean? Good to know. Doesn't really matter anyway, we've seen what Merc's power actually amounts to, and it barely hurts base Natsu. With offense that low what can Merc actually do against Igneel? He's got nothing, every attack Merc has can literally be no-sold. Don't see any scenario in which Merc puts up more than a mid diff fight, and that's generously assuming Natsu's Ignia Flame attacks are actually a match for Igneel's, which they almost certainly aren't. Honestly it's more likely a oneshot win for Igneel.

 

[WoWfan]

Merc has no control over his powers, the only time when he had control which was when he was controlled which would be in his berserk state 50%, his regular form is weaker. And Igneel roar is no where comparable to that of a regular dragon, you said that size matters when comparing to Merc’s so regular dragons are stronger than the three top tier dragons. Atlas doesn’t have phasing powers as Makarov can still hit him, his body is just surrounded in fire. We did not see his reaction at all because he was busy preparing to attack the dragon when he was empowered by Atlas, irrelevant points you make. In those translations from previous chapters said ocean which is relèvent as to how it can be coined for ocean as well, Serena has different powers compared to Merc, they are not related, besides. You have to look at the geography of where they are, and they are definitely in an area where it is an ocean that is connected to.

KT, Well my point still stands that he is not at strong when up against FT’s best, that is still a victory on their part.

 

[Axiomus]

Mercphobia still had his magic power, he just couldn't control them. In any case, the point I was trying to make is that Mercphobia in his dragon form was a lot less impressive than Igneel, and Mercphobia in his human form is a lot less impressive than Natsu with Igneel's powers.

Atlas Flame absolute did have phasing powers. Just look at how his body distorts when Motherglare roared. Makarov "hitting" Atlas Flame consisted of Makarov sticking his hands in Atlas Flame's face and burning himself. Now Atlas might not always be intangible, just like how Juvia isn't always in her water body, but he showed this ability when Motherglare roared.

Rather than looking at the geography and making a bunch of assumptions, you can just look at how much water Mercphobia actually dumped on Elmina.

So it's confirmed as a sea not an ocean? Good to know. Doesn't really matter anyway, we've seen what Merc's power actually amounts to, and it barely hurts base Natsu. With offense that low what can Merc actually do against Igneel? He's got nothing, every attack Merc has can literally be no-sold. Don't see any scenario in which Merc puts up more than a mid diff fight, and that's generously assuming Natsu's Ignia Flame attacks are actually a match for Igneel's, which they almost certainly aren't. Honestly it's more likely a oneshot win for Igneel.

Honestly, the fact that Igneel is still more impressive when we pretend that Natsu with Ignia's flames is on Acnologia's level speaks volumes for itself.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Atlas Flame absolute did have phasing powers. Just look at how his body distorts when MotherGlare roared. Makarov "hitting" Atlas Flame consisted of Makarov sticking his hands in Atlas Flame's face and burning himself. Now Atlas might not always be intangible, just like how Juvia isn't always in her water body, but he showed this ability when Motherglare roared.

Fixed It

 

[WoWfan]

Merc’s powers were not even at 50% at the time, even the DS stated that he is not the DG anymore, yet, Natsu was able to hurt them and yet could not even hurt 50% Merc, it is Transitive Property, you can see Makaraov’s hand impacting Altas’ head, even pushing back, that is not phasing, it Would be if his and just went straight through without impact, It would imply that that he was intangible in the first place where as Juvia stated, and Atlas did not, the geography is important as they are right by the ocean itself for the water lifted to be ocean, and most of the water was already evaporated before being dropping it on the city. The same flames that vaporized most of the ocean water? Yeah it speaks volumes

 

[Axiomus]

Fixed It

Good catch. Yes, when Motherglare roared.

WoWfan, look I dunno how else to make it any simpler. When Motherglare roared at Atlas Flame's his roar went right through his shoulder and Atlas Flame's body was distorted right at the place that Motherglare had roared at. Even if he wasn't intangible when Makarov hit him, he very clearly was intangible here.

Spoiler: Atlas Flame vs Motherglare

There's a ridiculous amount of problems with assuming that Ignia vaporized an entire ocean. First of all, that would mean the ocean is now gone, which clearly didn't happen because Touka sailed to Giltena the very next day. Unless you think it rained an entire ocean over a night, this would be impossible. Secondly, how could Ignia vaporize an entire ocean without vaporizing the water in all the civilians? Even if Ignia's flames had vaporized the water after it hit, there still would have been a continent's worth of water slamming into the ground. The sheer mass of the water would crush the city. Unless you're saying Ignia's flames vaporized the water while it was still in the air....which then really begs the question of why it didn't boil the civilians alive.

 

[WoWfan]

Still more powerful than Igneel’s by the logic going around

That shot is very vague as we so not even see where Atlas’ body was when the blast was fired, his flames may have been blown away but that does not mean his physical body was effected, he did not state attacks would pass right through, what was that you said about assumptions? That does not means all the water in the world is gone as oceans are connected to one another, and even the remaining water returned back to the ocean, so boats can still sail through them. You wouldn’t find it surprising how fiction logic makes things happen fast, like how most of the water in soul society returned to normal after a short while when it was evaporated by 15 million degrees temperature Yamamoto.

 

[Axiomus]

Still more powerful than Igneel’s by the logic going around

Not even close.