Fantasy Mercophobia vs Igneel

[Axiomus]

Igneel was bleeding. Doesn't mean he was coughing up blood like Acnologia. Igneel had cuts all over his body that look like they were there for a long time. Acnologia had cuts with fresh blood spraying out and he was coughing up a significant amount of blood.

I don't know how else to say this. Face does not work like a real life EMP. We know how face works and we know how an EMP works. They are different. An EMP can't wipe out electrons, which is exactly what face does with ethernano. An EMP doesn't drain electrical power from anything, while face will drain magic from everything. It's one thing if you can show that Hiro Mashima specifically stated that he thinks face works like an EMP, but none of that is present. This is just a translator telling us what he thinks about the wording.

Even if magic can affect Acnologia, Acnologia is still more resistant to magic than the other parent dragons. My argument was not that face didn't affect Acnologia whatsoever. My argument was that the effects were negligible, because Acnologia had so much power. When you compare the effects of face on dragons much weaker than Acnologia, they were still fine.

Of course it matters how Acnologia beats Igneel. If Mercphobia can't do the same, then no comparison can be made. When Acnologia stole Igneel's soul, he beat Igneel easily. When Igneel no longer had a soul to steal and Acnologia had to fight him physically, Acnologia lost an arm. Do you think that Ignia-powered Natsu can beat Igneel without losing an arm? Wouldn't that make him stronger than Acnologia? What about Ignia, who is still stronger than Natsu? Wouldn't that mean Ignia completely outclasses Acnologia? But wait....isn't Ignia is supposed to be on Acnologia's level?

 

[WoWfan]

Doesn't mean he wasn't bleeding from inside as well, You can say the very same with Acnologia's wounds as well, you say things that are speculative without visual proof that the wounds received are result of the supposed attack by Igneel that supposedly caused his fall. Yet the volume describes Face and EMP sharing similar end result prinicle of accomplishing said tasks, besides how high concentration of Magic operates similarly to that of radiation too. EMPs wipe out eletronics just as Face wipes out Magic, everyday society treats magic like eletronics as well. Just because Acno is resistant to magic still does not mean he would be so in all conditions, as proven, even in a hindered condition, Acno can still be effected by strong magic effects, which would include Face. yet those dragons besides Igneel were fresh and did not get caught i a fight that would weakened them before Face's activation. Merc could vary well do the same as Acnologia defeated prime Igneel and other dragons, it doesn't matter even with Acnologia weakened he still won. it would be no different in this case.Yes, Natsu with Ignia's power would be more than enough to beat Igneel as Ignia far outstrips Igneels. but that does not mean Ignia is any stronger than Acnologia as they are on the same level. that is how logical as it is.

 

[Axiomus]

If Igneel had internal injuries, then it isn't apparent at all. A bloody lip is not the same thing as coughing up blood. The way Igneel has blood on his lips in no way even slightly resembles the way Acnologia was coughing up blood. You've proven that Igneel was cut and bleeding. You didn't prove that Acnologia hit Igneel so hard that he started coughing up blood.

If Igneel didn't cause those wounds, then what did? Face is incapable of causing physical wounds. Literally nobody else on the continent had cuts open up on their body and started to cough up blood. The only reasonable explanation for the cuts on Acnologia's torso and the blood he's coughing up was that he took a blow from Igneel. Or do you think those wounds are self inflicted? The fact that Igneel caused Acnologia's wounds is not up for debate.

The nuclear bomb and a towel can both dry off a puddle of water. It doesn't mean they're similar. A real life EMP bomb works nothing like the way face is described to work. Face wipes out all magic from the continent. It reduces the ethernano in the air itself. An EMP bomb doesn't do that to electricity. An EMP bomb just causes machines to short circuit. It doesn't wipe out the stored electrical energy inside of batteries. It doesn't drain the electrical energy inside a human body. You can set off an EMP near a flashlight, take the batteries out and put it into a brand new flashlight, and the batteries will power the new flashlight just fine.

You're saying Mercphobia can do the exact thing as Acnologia without any justification. Acnologia could only defeat Igneel 400 years ago because he had a special type of dragon slaying magic that could steal souls. Mercphobia cannot do this. When Acnologia fought Igneel during the Tartarus arc, Igneel didn't have a soul for Acnologia to steal. Acnologia was forced into a physical fight with Igneel, and lost an arm during that fight.

You didn't answer my questions. My question wasn't simply whether Ignia-powered Natsu could beat Igneel. It was whether or not Natsu could beat Igneel without losing an arm, and therefore be above Acnologia. It cost Acnologia an arm to beat Igneel. If Natsu could do it without losing an arm, that would make him stronger than Acnologia. Ignia is ever stronger than Ignia-powered Natsu, so that would make Ignia that much stronger than Acnologia. At the end of the day, you cannot get around the fact that Igneel gave Acnologia an extremely difficult fight. Igneel was the hardest opponent that Acnologia fought, and he crippled Acnologia. So again, this is my questions to you: Is Ignia-powered Natsu so much stronger than Acnologia that he can beat an opponent that ripped off Acnologia's arm without any injuries? In fact, let's do some clarification. Please rank the following characters: Acnologia, Igneel, Ignia, Ignia-powered Natsu, Full-powered Mercphobia, and Half-powered Mercphobia. I want to see what your list looks like. I'll show you what my rankings are:

Acnologia/Ignia/Full-powered Mercphobia >= Igneel >>> Ignia-powered Natsu > Half-powered Mercphobia

 

[WoWfan]

Well it was definitely revealed in next chapter, and unlike your impression that Igneel caused internal bleeding to Acnologia, the chapter actual shows Acnologia inflicting said damage. still not to say Igneel wasn't bleeding from the inside already. I am not saying Igneel did not cause those wounds, but they were there before Face was activated and that with his magic being drained combined with his injuries and battled for a while, That his how he fell from the sky. Yet you have yet to visually show that Igneel did hit Acnologia that caused him to fall, you have to prove it, the burden of proof is on you. Unlike the two, the volume depicts their similarities as to how they work and end result, your example is invalid. A nuke released energy while a tower absorbs liquids, not a good example. I did not say they can do the same thing, just they they are strong enough to outclass regular dragon kings like Igneel which Acnologia proved 400 years ago. The series does not say that it was his only recourse, just that he used it which means he was stronger than them regardless to cause their deaths. Why does losing an arm matter, it is already proven that Acnologia and the Dragon Gods are stronger than other dragons, Natsu with Ignia's power is same level as Acnologia, but not stronger than RoT Acnologia. The means do not matter, only the end result, which is who is the victor

RoT Acnologia >>> Acnologia/DG/Ignia-Powered Natsu > Full powered Igneel ? Half Powered Merc > Half Dead Igneel

 

[Axiomus]

Well it was definitely revealed in next chapter, and unlike your impression that Igneel caused internal bleeding to Acnologia, the chapter actual shows Acnologia inflicting said damage. still not to say Igneel wasn't bleeding from the inside already. I am not saying Igneel did not cause those wounds, but they were there before Face was activated and that with his magic being drained combined with his injuries and battled for a while, That his how he fell from the sky. Yet you have yet to visually show that Igneel did hit Acnologia that caused him to fall, you have to prove it, the burden of proof is on you. Unlike the two, the volume depicts their similarities as to how they work and end result, your example is invalid. A nuke released energy while a tower absorbs liquids, not a good example. I did not say they can do the same thing, just they they are strong enough to outclass regular dragon kings like Igneel which Acnologia proved 400 years ago. The series does not say that it was his only recourse, just that he used it which means he was stronger than them regardless to cause their deaths. Why does losing an arm matter, it is already proven that Acnologia and the Dragon Gods are stronger than other dragons, Natsu with Ignia's power is same level as Acnologia, but not stronger than RoT Acnologia. The means do not matter, only the end result, which is who is the victor

RoT Acnologia >>> Acnologia/DG/Ignia-Powered Natsu > Full powered Igneel ? Half Powered Merc > Half Dead Igneel

Burden of proof is not on me to show you an event that happened off screen. The fact that Acnologia had fresh injuries on him when he fell speaks for itself. Those injuries were recent and they were the most likely cause for him to fall. Burden of proof is on you to prove that face can make Acnologia weak enough that he falls unconscious before literally everyone else on the continent, because there's no good reason for face to affect Acnologia more than anyone else. The other dragons (who still have less magic than Acnologia even though they weren't fighting) were not weakened to the point where they could not fly. Acnologia had enough magic to maintain his dragon form and enough magic left over to roar at Igneel when he woke back up.

An EMP releases an electromagnetic wave that causes the wiring of devices to short circuit. It doesn't actually wipe out electrical power stored in batteries or generators. It certainly doesn't wipe out the electrical energy stored in the human body. Face actually wipes out the particles of magic in the air and in human bodies. They're different. This isn't even an analogy. The volume doesn't say anything about face working like an EMP. It stated that there are similarities between the name "magic pulse bomb" and "electromagnetic pulse". It then goes on to say that in real life an EMP doesn't disable all electrical devices, and in some works of fictions it does. Hiro Mashima didn't even write this. It's an english translator rambling his thoughts. It's completely meaningless.

Again, please justify exactly how Mercphobia can beat Igneel the same way Acnologia did 400 years ago. Acnologia can only beat Igneel easily when he can steal Igneel's soul. When Acnologia actually has to get his hands dirty, Igneel gave him an extremely difficult fight and ripped off his arm. Igneel ripping off Acnologia's arm matters because it's a feat, and proves that he can give Acnologia an extreme difficulty fight. Mercphobia cannot give Natsu nearly as hard of a time as Igneel gave Acnologia. The gap between Igneel and Acnologia is closer than the gap between Ignia-powered Natsu and half-powered Mercphobia. This matters because half-powered Mercphobia isn't actually on the same level as Acnologia. Ignia is the only one that was actually on Acnologia's level, and he would easily beat Mercphobia if they fought. Ignia would lose an arm fighting Igneel.

So you're putting Ignia-powered Natsu, who only has a fraction of Ignia's power, right on par with Acnologia? Why then, could Mercphobia not put up as much of a fight against Natsu as Igneel did against Acnologia?

 

[WoWfan]

yes it is as you have yet to visually show that you claim Igneel hit Acnologi which he did not by any reason, we did not get any noise of smacking Acnologia down to the ground nor any visualization of said event. If you can't do that that is not a viable excuse to say that it was Igneel that did so, and you fail to explain why Igneel did not just kill Acnologia right there and then instead of just standing there doing nothing. I have already proven that Face did effect Acnologia as he can be effected by various non lethal magics. The other dragons were not effected as much because besides Igneel, they did not waste most of their time fighting and draining their magic before going to destroy the magics which made them capable of such. Just as Face can release magic particles that the disruption of magic, so to does EMPs cause the disruption of electrons which is why they are both the same as magic and electronics are tools in everyday society, and just like how EMPs do not disrupt all devices, so to does Face not effect the entire world of magic, it is meaningful which they have significance, just like how phrases and terms have significance and reflection in real world society or history. IT does, you just don't want to admit it. Merc can beat Igneel simply he is far more stronger than nay other dragon, just like how Acnologia is far more stronger than any other dragon besides being equal to the other DG. It does not matter if it was a struggle, the end result just proves that Acnologia is far stronger then and now. just as how the DGs are depicted to be on said level. stop talking about losing an arm when Igneel will lose most of his body in the fight or even more. No mention of flames being a fraction, just temporary, just as Sting could reach Spriggan strength through eating Larcade's light.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

RoT Acnologia >>> Acnologia/DG/Ignia-Powered Natsu > Full powered Igneel ? Half Powered Merc > Half Dead Igneel

Ignia powered Natsu is nowhere near Full Powered DG specially Ignia who made Natsu strong after making him eat his shit.

 

[WoWfan]

Ignia wanted Natsu to become strong enough on his own to fight him, the flames he ate are his strength, but only temporary, Slayers gain the strength of what they eat, temporarily

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Ignia wanted Natsu to become strong enough on his own to fight him, the flames he ate are his strength, but only temporary, Slayers gain the strength of what they eat, temporarily

If this is the case DG being on par with pre ROT Acno is false as well.

 

[Axiomus]

• The very fact that Acnologia has injuries on his body is proof that Acnologia hit him. The fact that his wounds are spraying blood is proof that the Igneel hit him recently. Face cannot cause those injuries and Acnologia did not hurt himself.
• My argument was never that face did not affect Acnologia. It was that face's effect on Acnologia was negligible, like it was against the parent dragons who were also affected by face. The parent dragons have so much magic power that face could not drain it all. Acnologia has even more power than them.
• Igneel thought Acnologia was defeated. He thought he won. There was nothing stopping him from biting Acnologia as he was down except for maybe a sense of honor.
• A real life EMP cannot wipe out electrons. This isn't even debatable. Face actually wipes out the very ethernano in the air. A real life EMP literally cannot do this to electrons. They're different
• Igneel is also far stronger than other dragons. That's why he was considered a king.
• Why would I stop talking about Igneel biting of Acnologia's arm? It's a legitimate feat. The fact that Igneel could cripple Acnologia is proof that Igneel was the toughest opponent that Acnologia has ever fought.
• You have Natsu with Ignia's flames on Acnologia's level. That version of Natsu beat half-powered Mercphobia in 4 hits, and Mercphobia couldn't do any damage to Natsu. Igneel fought Acnologia for a full 20 minutes, and ended up crippling Acnologia.
• We know Ignia only used a fraction of his power to feed Natsu because we know at full power Ignia could destroy a country. Elmina was a city, and Ignia held back on his attack so as not to destroy it. Natsu did not consume all of Ignia's power.
  
  

 

[WoWfan]

The wounds are not proof that is what made him fall unless you can show me Igneel actually attacking him tha tmade him fall, then you have a point, until then you do not. And that face still effected Acno regardless when he was fighting Igneel which would put effort on him. No, he did not, Igneel would only achieve victory with his death, that is the whole purpose of them being there in the first place. Yes, EMPs do wipe out electronics, that is why they do not work, that is how electronics are wiped out, not different than how Face wipes out magic. Igneel biting off Acno’s arm is just a desperate action that would not yield victory for him anyway, he lost before and lost again. Even as king, he was no king to the King of Dragons and the Dragon Gods, there is a difference between half powered and full power, which you seem to downplay a lot lately. No, he stated to take his power, which was only temporary, nothing stated that it was a fraction of his power, Ignia wanted Natsu to get strong enough so they can fight. He had no reason to hold back as he did not care at all.

If this is the case DG being on par with pre ROT Acno is false as well.

They were never on par with RoT Acno, no statement made based on it, just standard Acnologia

 

[LaGOAT]

@WoWfan despite the lack of evidence ur providing.. what ur not getting half dead Ingeel rip ancologia arm while half powered merc lost to natsu that enough should tell u the difference ripping ancologia arm>losing to natsu unless u believe that ingia powered natsu=ancologia

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

u believe that ingia powered natsu=ancologia

He does actually.

Well it was definitely revealed in next chapter, and unlike your impression that Igneel caused internal bleeding to Acnologia, the chapter actual shows Acnologia inflicting said damage. still not to say Igneel wasn't bleeding from the inside already. I am not saying Igneel did not cause those wounds, but they were there before Face was activated and that with his magic being drained combined with his injuries and battled for a while, That his how he fell from the sky. Yet you have yet to visually show that Igneel did hit Acnologia that caused him to fall, you have to prove it, the burden of proof is on you. Unlike the two, the volume depicts their similarities as to how they work and end result, your example is invalid. A nuke released energy while a tower absorbs liquids, not a good example. I did not say they can do the same thing, just they they are strong enough to outclass regular dragon kings like Igneel which Acnologia proved 400 years ago. The series does not say that it was his only recourse, just that he used it which means he was stronger than them regardless to cause their deaths. Why does losing an arm matter, it is already proven that Acnologia and the Dragon Gods are stronger than other dragons, Natsu with Ignia's power is same level as Acnologia, but not stronger than RoT Acnologia. The means do not matter, only the end result, which is who is the victor

RoT Acnologia >>> Acnologia/DG/Ignia-Powered Natsu > Full powered Igneel ? Half Powered Merc > Half Dead Igneel

 

[WoWfan]

What you are forgetting is that full powered Igneel was already defeated 400 years ago by Acnologia so no, this fight was already decided even before it even began, upon realizing the inevitable and stating that Acno is far stronger than he thought, Igneel just simply wish to handicap him for the humans to take advantage of in the future, and as we have seen in Acno’s final battle, it paid off, and it is simple fact that Dragon slayers gain the power of what they eat, temporary or no, that is up for debate, which is the case with Natsu temporarily gaining Ignia’s power

 

[LaGOAT]

What you are forgetting is that full powered Igneel was already defeated 400 years ago by Acnologia so no, this fight was already decided even before it even began, upon realizing the inevitable and stating that Acno is far stronger than he thought, Igneel just simply wish to weaken him for the humans to take advantage of in the future, and as we have seen in Acno’s final battle, it paid off, and it is simple fact that Dragon slayers gain the power of what they eat, temporary or no, that is up for debate

By stealing his soul we don’t know how it went down we just know acno has that ability for all we know Ingeel was probably sleeping while acno was stealing soul and by that logic anco>DGs because he has that hax ability. So tell if that ancologia was that powerful how can he let a half dead Ingeel rip his arm? Also that feat alone better anything merc and shown so far.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 9, 2019 ---

He does actually.

He tweakin

 

[WoWfan]

And that is proof enough that he was already stronger than all the other kings, because as well have seen before with soul stealing it is a matter of strength whether they can or can’t or resist, Igneel even stated that he stood no chance, what proof do you need? And it has been shown and stated countless time that it was Acnologia the killed and bathed in the blood of dragons, and we have even seen how the dragon soul magic works in the movie, that even the dragons were battered and beaten, yet Adimus used the same technique as the parent dragons did. Why would Igneel be sleeping when the world was literally a hellscape 400 years ago? Again, level of strength can determine soul steal, so the DG would be around the same strength as base Acnologia, like I said, it was a matter of futility on Igneel’s part, so he just decided to tear his arm off so Humanity can deal with him later. Igneel did not defeat Acnologia twice now, so by that logic Igneel < DGs.

 

[LaGOAT]

And that is proof enough that he was already stronger than all the other gods, because as well have seen before with soul stealing it is a matter of strength whether they can or can’t or resist, Igneel even stated that he stood no chance, what proof do you need? Why would Igneel be sleeping when the world was literally a hellscape 400 years ago? Again, level of strength can determine soul steal, so the DG would be around the same strength as base Acnologia, like I said, it was a matter of futility on Igneel’s part, so he just decided to tear his arm off so Humanity can deal with him later. Igneel did not defeat Acnologia twice now, so by that logic Igneel < DGs.

ok that was my point also so but Ingeel shown a better feat that merc. 2. Show me panel where Ingeel saying that he lost to him in a fight? 3. Bro I said that we don’t know what when down h400years ago we don’t know if they fought the Ingeel sleeping part was just an example we don’t know what happened . How are DGs on anco level when acno can do the same thing to them what makes u think they are resist to anco soul stealing?4.ur not getting it ancologia beat a full powered Ingeel 4. How is his half dead form able to rip his arm that shouldn’t had happen if acno is that powerful.

 

[WoWfan]

Feat is not the same as victory though, he would lose anyway because of the power difference. The parent dragons stated that they were defeated by Acnologia 400 years ago and that even igneel stood no chance against him and Igneel stated Acno is far stronger than he thought. We did, Acno defeated all the other dragons, we even saw flashbacks of Acno kicking ass. Those dragons are stated by someone who has had first hand experience with the DG 400 years ago. You have to prove that Igneel was stronger than Acnologia 400 years ago, otherwise Acno would have been dead by now, and no, he would resist soul steal if Igneel was stronger, he ripped off his arm so that the humans can’t deal with him afterwards, it’s simple as that, igneel could not win and it’s not a feat that would defeat him

 

[LaGOAT]

Feat is not the same as victory though, he would lose anyway because of the power difference. The parent dragons stated that they were defeated by Acnologia 400 years ago and that even igneel stood no chance against him and Igneel stated Acno is far stronger than he thought. We did, Acno defeated all the other dragons, we even saw flashbacks of Acno kicking ass. Those dragons are stated by someone who has had first hand experience with the DG 400 years ago. You have to prove that Igneel was stronger than Acnologia 400 years ago, otherwise Acno would have been dead by now, and no, he would resist soul steal if Igneel was stronger, he ripped off his arm so that the humans can’t deal with him afterwards, it’s simple as that, igneel could not win and it’s not a feat that would defeat him

Nigga I’m not debating who stronger between Ingeel and acno I know acno>igneel that’s not debate I’m talking igneel feat>merc feat. 2. The parents dragons stated that their soul was taken by anco years ago again I’m saying that we don’t how it happen we know that ancologia has the ability to steal dragons soul. 3. Fodder dragons<Ingeel not all dragons are on the same level. Or else Ingeel wouldnt have the power to rim his arm off even in his half state. Show me what feat merc has to beat Ingeel ripping acno arm off

 

[WoWfan]

I do not appreciate the name calling sir, anyway, Merc is stronger than Igneel, however at half strength that is a much more difficult fight for Merc, but since this is Tartaros Igneel, the result would be the same. We know that souls can still interact with physical people just as physical people can interact with souls, and we all know how that turned out for Animus who used the same technique after getting beaten by Acnologia. Merc lifting an ocean is greater than Tartartos Igneel who still could not beat Acno who only ripped his arm off out of desperation.