Most evil One Piece character?

[ofir271]

i voted don flamingo but just because i couldnt find Nami !!

 

[RichardMNixon]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

Yes, but you're only saying that because of the shifting moral zeitgeist. It was okay to slaughter the infidels and stone women and children to death a thousand years ago.

No, and that's my point. People thinking it was ok doesn't mean it's ok. That's why we need metrics that are objective as possible.

That "morality of divinity" is amoral by any objective standard of morality and I don't feel ethnocentric for saying so.

 

[ZenoArmani]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

I've usually been split about the WG in One Piece, or at least about the Marines. On the one hand they try to bring stability, which is good, and yes, handing something akin to nuclear weaponry into the hands of potential terrorists and petty tyrants (of the Crocodile or Enel variety) would also be very bad. Attempting to stop the marauding, raping, and killing types of pirates would be a good thing, and killing Gol. D. Roger might be, depending on whether or not he was of that variety. However, the problem lies in the most extreme methods.

Hence, instead of simply burning the history books containing information about the weapon, and, say split up the specific connected historians to different locations without contact with each other (which would have been acceptable if it was a big enough threat), they put the inhabitants of an entire country to the torch, which would qualify as completely indefensible for anyone with even a shred of morality. (There is also the part that maybe it wasn't so much the weapon the wanted to keep secret, but rather "blank century" information about how they came to power?)

Likevise with not strictly selecting the adventurous Shanks- or Luffy-types of pirates for the Shishibukai. Most of them (Crocodile, Moria, Doflamingo, Blackbeard) seem to have been the absolutely worst available (and I don't care much for Hancock either), and to not do anything actually useful to the populace, (or at least slaver-rings, creating civil wars, or turning people into zombies don't exactly seem that way). Whitebeard and Shanks seem to have been a lot more useful when it comes to keeping the pillaging or enslaving pirates in check than the Shishibukai have, and the government intensely support the Tenryuubito and arbitrary enslavement of either citizens, or what you would see as colonialism metaphors for non-Caucasian "races" (mermaids, mermen, giants), so it seems like several members of the WG are considerably more interested in keeping their personal power than keeping the citizens safe.

(I've heard that there is supposed to be a specific Japanese terminology difference between the Eustace Kid type of pirates, and the Luffy/Shanks/likely Whitebeard kind, which would really count more as adventurers and freedom fighters than what we associate with the description.)

However, One Piece is very much about that every category has different types of people in it. There are benevolent rulers (the King and Princess of Alabasta) and monstrous rulers (like Vapolo), and most marines seem idealistic and to have the citizens in mind. The Admirals and Sengoku have mostly seemed like monsters so far though. Akainu is more interested in burning his most terrified soldiers to death than combatting the enemy, Aokiji and Sengoku kill almost all the inhabitants of a small country, the ambivalent Kizaru defends a bunch of tyrants and slavers.

 

[ZenoArmani]

Heh. Nami is just a greedy jerk, not evil, and she has shown very altruistic and well-intended sides as well. I do think Boa Hancock was forgiven way too easily though.

 

[Razh]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

Sengoku puts up with it because he cares about the future and wishes to keep the Piracy era from causing any more bad blood.

Lol, Piracy Era. We've seen a lot more examples of WG and Marine violence than pirate violence.
At least pirates don't make people build humongous bridges until they die. Nor do they enslave people.

How do you feel the WG is an organization based on bad deeds? Yes they do what they feel is the right way and try to preserve that. Is this not similiar to what current and pasted Governments have done? Germany during WW2 did the same thing and currently USA does the same thing in Iraq, Afghanistan. North Korea the same with its Media blackout and etc. Everyone country does the same unfortunately I don't know the history on every country to give you an example for every country. But if you dig, you're find something.

Excuse me, but I need to ask you a question. From which chapter did you read One Piece?
WG wants to keep the dark century a secret at any cost. Seeing how WG is doing now, they must have done some scary shit.
Please don't bring bullshit about preserving the right way in here. Killing women and children to get some oil is not the right way.

You should be the one digging through history. Especially through some older One Piece chapters. Take a good look what WG did at Ohara and who knows how many other islands. Take a look how they enslave people and make them work until they die.

Akainu seems fine to me so far, he's still in the dark as we don't really know much, sure he's attacking the Pirates right now but did they not invade the Marine HQs and try to stop justice from being served?

Fine? He ordered fire on the ship from his own fleet, just to be sure that none of the Ohara people manages to escape. He killed one of his own men because he was too scared.
Funny though, I have yet to see a pirate captain kill one of his own men (aside from Crocodile and Doflamingo but they are scum and on WG side), and we saw it among the Marines two times.
Shabondy arc was to erase any doubt that WG is bad.

Also, Revolutionaries wouldn't be so successful if everyone in WG is all jolly and happy. In revolution, people turn against the authorities they don't like.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

(There is also the part that maybe it wasn't so much the weapon the wanted to keep secret, but rather "blank century" information about how they came to power?)

I think it was strongly implied that the weapons were just an excuse to demonize Ohara, that the WG was actually concerned about the blank century; especially since the WG has also resorted to their own underhanded methods to rebuild the weapons.

Off topic diverging to the weapons, those cause an awful lot of trouble in the world... Pluton was the cause for Luffy fighting both Crocodile and Lucci.

 

[NoLimit89]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

No, and that's my point. People thinking it was ok doesn't mean it's ok. That's why we need metrics that are objective as possible.

That "morality of divinity" is amoral by any objective standard of morality and I don't feel ethnocentric for saying so.

Of course we feel that it is amoral now, but once again, we are feeling this way because of our current zeitgeist. However, it is not fair to claim that a culture's moral system is amoral by any standards. It would be much more accurate to say that it is amoral by OUR standards. Afterall, their moral is moral in their standards and they may think our way of doing is amoral. E.g. We KNOW that it is completely okay to let homosexuals be themselves and saying otherwise would be amoral. However, for them, they may see it as going against nature and god (I'm not saying it is, I'm saying they think it is) and to let it go on would be amoral.

You can imagine if it was thousands of years ago and we have two cultures that collided that have such polarized view of morality, then there always tended to be war, and both sides would think that they're being righteous. That is all I'm saying.

 

[Hitsug@ya ta1ch0u]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

Yes in the same way the Rebellion could be viewed as evil in Star wars

 

[madmotoristmonk]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

Excellent topic, first of all!

Now I just have something new to add to the discussion.

1) Who are the Tenryuobito? I mean, I know that thier the decendants of the 20 kings who founded the WG. But seriously, who are they? What do they have that makes the WG and Marines protect them so? They are (as someone already said) physically pathetic, they definitely aren't that smart (any idiot could tell not to pull a gun on Roranoa Zoro), they haven't shown any reason at all why they would deserve the dipolomatic immunity their given. Maybe in future chapters we'll see why the WG hides the Void Century, and why the status quo needs to remain so.

2) I definitley agree with the idea that even without pirates, Luffy would still be an adventurer. I just believe that he feels the term "Pirate" is synomnous with what he wants. Remember when he met other pirate captians (Kuro, Krieg) and was disgusted at what most people would actually define as a pirate (a crimanal on the sea, a individual who opperates outside of moral and govt limits)

3) Akainu seems more like a follower of Dark Justice to me. He'd probably fit right in the Cipher Pol. I won't call any particular Government out, but i imagine theres all sorts of shady/morally questionable things Your/My/His(er) Countries/ People do to maintain their prosperity that makes for the suffering of others.
Everytime a diamond is bought, it only futhers the goings on of places like Seira Leone. Or for a more relatable one, think of the rinky dink dayjob you got at Quiznoss, McDonalds, etc, you took a job away from; a single mother, recovering drug addict, regular guy, etc. Someone suffered for your gain.
My point being, we don't really know why the WG does what it does, and if Oda is the writer we think he is, he'll explain it later on in a way that allows some sympathy for these characters we've been quick to call "Evil"

 

[LDSaint]

Re: Could Luffy really be the antagonist?

half of the posts here dont even mentiont one piece or luffy isnt that wat this disscussion about???

our world and the world of one piece are NOT the same. yeah in our world there are many different cultures and stuff like that but is there in one piece is there??? from what ive read and seen there isnt...there is only 1 "culture" (im not sure if thats the right word to use) in one piece they all practically grew up the same way as every1 else did just maybe in different conditiond eg. being born in alabasta compared to like water 7. the majority of the ppl seen (not including pirates) all have been shown to have similar morals and views of wat is right and wrong.

and from this the WG is evil y? because they no that if the regular citzens of the world find out about the past, about the kuma bots and other things the WG is hiding that they will think that the WG is evil, bad watever... y else would they b hiding it and protecting it? y if countries dnt follow them do they turn them into slaves...?

 

[Banedor]

Was there really a need to move my thread? Now I'm not even going to bother continuing this topic that I thought was a worthy discussion for its OWN thread.

I used Luffy because HE is the protagonist as is the Pirates as a whole as they are fighting against the WG the antagonist. I can't name every pirate in the opening topic thus used Luffy to represent the Pirates as a whole.

This is a thread of who is the evilest character, I fail to see how my thread which cause readers to look at the story from another perspective and pique their creative minds to look at the story in a deeper mindset.

With all that said, Good day MH Mod who moved this and couldn't even give me an explanation in a Private Message.

 

[LDSaint]

please restore the old thread i also fail to see how wat we were previously discussing fits it here. we dnt mention any of the characters in the poll (cept luffy)

 

[Tsukisama]

Was there really a need to move my thread? Now I'm not even going to bother continuing this topic that I thought was a worthy discussion for its OWN thread.

I used Luffy because HE is the protagonist as is the Pirates as a whole as they are fighting against the WG the antagonist. I can't name every pirate in the opening topic thus used Luffy to represent the Pirates as a whole.

This is a thread of who is the evilest character, I fail to see how my thread which cause readers to look at the story from another perspective and pique their creative minds to look at the story in a deeper mindset.

With all that said, Good day MH Mod who moved this and couldn't even give me an explanation in a Private Message.

I merged the threads, because all of the posts in your thread were discussing morality in general with the exception of your first post. None of the responses were focused specifically on Luffy's role as protagonist or antagonist; instead, the discussion on what constitutes an evil character.

If you can show a siginificant number of posts that were originally from your thread that discuss your topic and not this one, then I will separate the threads.

 

[Bugzee]

I would've added croc-boy as well. But to me, his just badass and has a laidback stance. I mean true that he had cruel and evil intentions in Arabasta but overall after considering the other evil characters, I still see Croc in a different category compared to others such as BB, Doflam, Dragon & Eneru (Not in terms of power, strength and reputation!). The best way I can explain it is his simply not evil in the way most of the others are lol.


*Wouldn't mind seeing a Croc and Capone Bege clash hehehe*

 

[Poneglyph420]

I'm so glad I voted for Akainu as well, now he is becoming one of the more "evil" characters, indeed a follower of "Dark Justice". I think it's becoming clear that the WG seems to run on some immoral standards. No more evil than Doflamingo or Croc.
but for sure up there in the evil list....

 

[ZenoArmani]

Since people seem to have mostly stopped voting, here is the list so far:

1) Doflamingo
2) The Shabondi Tenryuubito
3) The Gorousei
4) Eneru
5) Crocodile
6) Akainu
7) Blackbeard; Arlong; Spandam
8) Shiryuu; Rob Lucci
9) Moria; Vegapunk; Vapolo; Bellamy
10) Eustace Kid; Kuro; Don Krieg
11) Morgan; Unlisted

 

[modoki]

Honestly I would have to agree, Donflamingo has a pretty twisted mind. He is on a level of evil higher than the world nobles. He is kinda fit to be a yonkou.
Using the word yonkou pretty much kills it. Each yonkou has tons of support from many NW pirates, while Donflamingo is the direct opposite.

Out of all the members of the Shichibukai and One piece (for now), flamingo is probably the most demented, sick/twisted character.
I will stick with flamingo until Kaidou is introduced.

 

[ZenoArmani]

Yup, I think he is on the most epic scale of evil, possibly along with Crocodile. The worst guys in the series are slugging it out in the manga right now, which is kind of cool. Whoever loses, the World wins.

 

[vagabond87]

Doflamingo, Rob Lucci, ONIGUMO and Akainu are pure evil.. I think onigumo will be one of the greatest villian in future of one piece because he is "Absolute Justice" follower and have great potential in his fruit..

 

[Poneglyph420]

Doflamingo, Rob Lucci, ONIGUMO and Akainu are pure evil.. I think onigumo will be one of the greatest villian in future of one piece because he is "Dark Justice" follower and have great potential in his fruit..

Pretty sure Onigumo is a follower of Absolute Justice... Check your sources..

But I'm starting to think the real evil lies within the WG for sure.....