Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3
There was an issue with it int he chapter discussion thread as soon as Sasuke wanted to get rid of them. I know it because I immediately reacted.
But did anyone have an issue when Kushina wanted to do the same thing to the Kyuubi that Sasuke did to the bijuu? Sorry, but I will remain convinced that it has nothing to do with morals and ethics, but more to do with characters themselves.
Because you can't sacrifice X innocent lives for another X innocent lives with a probable miscalculated scenario. The trolley problem explains it pretty well, actually.
The trolley problem explains nothing given that none of the humans in the example can regenerate. Once they die, they die. Bijuu however, can regenerate. Nor would they mind being killed, since they'd retain their individual identity and come back to life.
No, they don't. It doesn't matter if they die or not. The act itself is an execution of innocent lives to potentially save another but without warranty of any actual possibility of desired results.
It's not execution. The bijuu don't die. This is quite important because it justifies killing the bijuu completely. The ONLY right path that exists is doing something so that Madara can't get to the bijuu, without killing them, but the worst path is keeping the bijuu alive but taking no action to keep them from falling into Madara's hands. That is exactly what happened here.
The comparison does work because an affectionate human being starts to rationalize things differently when the said contingencies come to his mind. The trolley problem is pretty well explained on some sites. It would make sense if you actually understood what I'm saying which is why I stopped replying to you because you're insisting with the same things all over again.
Trolley problem cannot be related to the bijuu problem, for reasons that were stated. Regeneration is important because it removes any moral or ethical dilemma. You're not executing the bijuu, who can regenerate, you're saving them and removing any risk to them. If the bijuu ask to be killed rather than become the Juubi again, would sparing them be moral or ethical, given that they choose to die rather than lose their identities?
A short period of peace can't lead to permanent peace if your solution of achieving it is used in this war. I already elaborated it. It would be a selfish, immoral, apathic , inhumane act supported and influenced by the authority of power which was present through generations of wars. What I mean by being influence by authority of power? It simply dictates the behavior of ending an innocent life for the purpose of power, be it to escape from it or embrace it. If that actually happened, then the already established understanding between the whole Alliance, Bijuu, the world basically would disappear. The force that makes decisions about said things would once again be power, not mutual understanding and respect. That's why Naruto's doing what he's doing, the "illogical" way, as you might put it.
Keeping the bijuu alive and letting them become part of the Juubi would be just as selfish, immoral, and inhumane because they don't want to become part of the Juubi. Not only are they forced to become something against their will, but it also puts countless of innocent lives at risk for beings that don't truly die. The bijuu's lives are "ended" not for power, but to keep them and other lives safe.
Nothing would disappear, and temporary peace can lead to permanent peace. If temporary peace cannot do that, then nothing can lead to peace. Simple as that. My way is similar to Naruto's in that the bijuu would not be killed, but unlike Naruto, steps would be taken to make sure they cannot be taken by Madara.
Frankly, if Naruto can't achieve permanent peace during temporary peace, then he can not achieve peace at all. The understanding between the bijuu and most humans would still exist whether or not the bijuu are regenerating or alive.
Simply because the bad guys would still wage war and find another deus ex machina to cause more destruction. It's human nature that the world lives in for generations. The Bijuu might actually be the pillar of change because many expect things to turn out as you want them to, but exactly the opposite is happening, and it's working.
What other "deus ex machina"? As far as I recall, there has been no other way than the bijuu. The bijuu can't be the pillar of change if they're combined into the Juubi and are subjugating innocent lives. I'm pretty sure the bijuu would understand why they had to die, and that they prefer it over becoming the Juubi and/or hurting innocent lives.
I don't think the biju should be put down here. To begin with the biju are not criminals, they are the victims here. They are the ones that were hunted down by humans and were imprisoned for their power. If they were mindless beasts or something like dogs I would be all for putting them down considering they would be well, beasts or animals, and it would simply be easier than the trouble they are otherwise but that is not the case. Their sentience makes them straight up victims that if anything need protection from others.
Of course, putting the biju down would not really make a difference. Biju don't really die as far as we know even if the jinchuiriki is killed. For whatever reason they simply reappear later on elsewhere, at least that is the implication given so far. So killing them is a moot point and protecting them actually serves a double purpose. You do need to keep tabs on the guys because there is every reason for a lot of people to want their power.
Now, that is not to say there is a need to be impractical here. Within the context of the war it would have actually made sense to put the things down without so much as a shred of remorse. They were going to be used to destroy the world so putting them down beforehand is not that an unreasonable scenario. It would ultimately save lives and spare the biju killing billions along with being trapped within the jubi.
They aren't really being put down, they regenerate. They don't truly die. I even told Roman I agree that the bijuu should ultimately live, and that the problem lies with bad people using them for war and stuff.
But the issue here isn't bijuu in general. It's the war, it's Madara and making sure his plans don't succeed, and risking the lives of innocent people. That's the only reason Naruto's way and inaction is full of folly. At least Sasuke's way is action.
