Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[Impossibility]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Is that not a part of the story's history? Something that had a major impact on the sand village, and thus the story's lore? You made the assumption that I was just referring to plot centric things. Just like his partner can be credited for being the only one in the organization known as a terrorist before being a part of said organization. Or, Kisame can be credited for being known as the tailed beast without a tail. Yes, they did things to advance the plot with the capture of the different hosts, but that's not all I was talking about. Just because we saw that the two tails host got captured by Hidan's technique does not mean that Kakazu did nothing. We saw that they both engaged her, (if not engaged then at least both got drawn into the fight) cut to the end of the chapter and she's caught. So, no it would not be the same. It's not like when we saw Itachi sitting against a tree while Kisame was off capturing Roshi. Or when Deidara was the one to actually vocalize he did most of the work when the three tails was caught. Even then Obito said he'd leave it to Deidara. Even if the Hashirama bit is a tidbit, knowing his prowess the fact that Kakazu survived that says something of him. Keyword here being survived.

And Konan was a leader within the original Akatsuki that fought against Amegakure. She was "God's Angel". So Kakuzu's actual contribution is something that we never saw? Konan's contribution to the Invasion of Konoha was far more visible than anything Kakuzu might have done to aid in bringing Yugito. And Kakuzu surviving Hashirama, it shows some prowess. I don't see how that would be any different from Konan's actual feats against Tobi showing her 'prowess'.

Unlike them, Konan does not have a history. So we look at her contributions to the advancement of the story. Given that all that she did was practically negated, or ended uo not mattering it, just looks bad on her.

Honestly, I understand trying to defend her. Kishimoto has no excuse in that regard. And I'm not denying that her feats were impressive. However, it just seems like she's the odd man out in this case.

We saw more of her history than most of Akatsuki. And yes, most of what she did failed to matter much in the end, but that's the same for other members of Akatsuki. She's the odd man out because she was never the villain, and she was always different from her peers.

 

[KiSwordsman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

And Konan was a leader within the original Akatsuki that fought against Amegakure. She was "God's Angel". So Kakuzu's actual contribution is something that we never saw? Konan's contribution to the Invasion of Konoha was far more visible than anything Kakuzu might have done to aid in bringing Yugito. And Kakuzu surviving Hashirama, it shows some prowess. I don't see how that would be any different from Konan's actual feats against Tobi showing her 'prowess'.

Leader of the original organization? What's the indication of this? That she's one of the original members? Also, when was that shown independent of her two friends, if at all?

Okay, so she helped invade the leaf village. What exactly does it matter when really the only thing of note in that respect was it being Destroyed by Nagato? The reason that Kakazu can get credit for the two tails is because that was the organization's goal. Nagato and Konan failed in their goal to capture Naruto. However Nagato left his mark by destroying the leaf village. The invasion itself wasn't that significant compared to what happened to the village by the end of it.

Even still, what exactly did we see Hidan do? We know by the end of it, she was captured by his technique but that's it. The same goes for the monk that they hunted down to get the bounty. Kakazu chose to hunt the guy, but by the end of the fight he was killed by Hidan's technique.

Once again, what makes it different is the keyword there, survived. Kakazu survived Hashirama, Konan did not survive Obito. That, and everything she did was negated. Plus, she didn't destroy Nagato's eyes. Even if it could be blamed on the plot, how do you not do that? You know exactly what the guy is coming there to get, yet due to some BS idea of the Rinnegan belonging to the country you don't ensure he doesn't get what he wants? I mean the whole thing originally was she was going to kill herself to kill him. So why not just destroy the eyes to make sure that he doesn't get them in case that fails? I mean hell, at least we saw the attempt on Obito's part. Regardless of the fact that Sakura was made to look the fool in that situation. But I digress.

We saw more of her history than most of Akatsuki. And yes, most of what she did failed to matter much in the end, but that's the same for other members of Akatsuki. She's the odd man out because she was never the villain, and she was always different from her peers.

Konan was always a part of someone else's history. However that's not the type of history I mean. Could you name anything that she did outside of the whole fighting Obito thing that set her apart from Nagato and Yahiko? That actually stuck.

The individual members goal was to capture the tailed beasts. They did that, and in doing so advanced the story. For the members that did not get to do such they still have a staple in history due to their actions before joining the organization. Her not being the villain really doesn't matter. Itachi wasn't the villain either. Her being the odd man out has to do with her being a side character for practically all of the story, (and by that I mean character that mostly just appeared and was merely a part of other characters lives) and the only thing of note that she did being made pointless.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Leader of the original organization? What's the indication of this? That she's one of the original members?

Okay, so she helped invade the leaf village. What exactly does it matter when really the only thing of note in that respect was it being Destroyed by Nagato? The reason that Kakazu can get credit for the two tails is because that was the organization's goal. Nagato and Konan failed in their goal to capture Naruto. However Nagato left his mark by destroying the leaf village. The invasion itself wasn't that significant compared to what happened to the village by the end of it.

Even still, what exactly did we see Hidan do? We know by the end of it, she was captured by his technique but that's it. The same goes for the monk that they hunted down to get the bounty. Kakazu chose to hunt the guy, but by the end of the fight he was killed by Hidan's technique.

Once again, what makes it different is the keyword there, survived. Kakazu survived Hashirama, Konan did not survive Obito. That, and everything she did was negated. Plus, she didn't destroy Nagato's eyes. Even if it could be blamed on the plot, how do you not do that? You know exactly what the guy is coming there to get, yet due to some BS idea of the Rinnegan belonging to the country you don't ensure he doesn't get what he wants? I mean the whole thing originally was she was going to kill herself to kill him. So why not just destroy the eyes to make sure that he doesn't get them in case that fails? I mean hell, at least we saw the attempt on Obito's part. Regardless of the fact that Sakura was made to look the fool in that situation. But I digress.

"A leader". Yes, but it was Hidan that defeated her. You're basically saying Kakuzu gets credit for Hidan defeating Yugito because he's his partner, but Konan doesn't get any credit for things she was actively involved in alongside Nagato. We saw that Hidan was responsible for their defeat, his technique was directly responsible. We didn't see any such thing for Kakuzu. Yes, but it's a feat either way. Something no other individual managed to do. And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it your point that feats aren't what you were referencing, but actual contributions to the story? What separates Kakuzu's feat from this?

Konan was always a part of someone else's history. However that's not the type of history I mean. Could you name anything that she did outside of the whole fighting Obito thing that set her apart from Nagato and Yahiko? That actually stuck.

The individual members goal was to capture the tailed beasts. They did that, and in doing so advanced the story. For the members that did not get to do such they still have a staple in history due to their actions before joining the organization. Her not being the villain really doesn't matter. Itachi wasn't the villain either. Her being the odd man out has to do with her being a side character for practically all of the story, (and by that I mean character that mostly just appeared and was merely a part of other characters lives) and the only thing of note that she did being made pointless.

Yes, it was a part of Nagato's history, it doesn't change the fact that we've seen more of her history than other members of Akatsuki. Other than the fact that Kakuzu survived Hashirama, what do we know about Hidan and Kakuzu? Itachi played the villain, in the end it turned out that wasn't the case, but he definitely got the villain treatment, and that's pretty much the only thing that separates Konan from her peers.

 

[KiSwordsman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

"A leader". Yes, but it was Hidan that defeated her. You're basically saying Kakuzu gets credit for Hidan defeating Yugito because he's his partner, but Konan doesn't get any credit for things she was actively involved in alongside Nagato. We saw that Hidan was responsible for their defeat, his technique was directly responsible. We didn't see any such thing for Kakuzu. Yes, but it's a feat either way. Something no other individual managed to do. And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it your point that feats aren't what you were referencing, but actual contributions to the story? What separates Kakuzu's feat from this?

And once again, what is the indication of this? No, Konan can get credit for invading the leaf village. I agree with you on that. However, what does that matter when the only actual thing of note about that event was the fact that Nagato destroyed it? The actual goal of the invasion was not the invasion itself but was to capture Naruto. The significance of the invasion, the village's destruction, was something that Konan had no part of. You're basically trying to pass it off like the invasion of the village was something of note. It was not. The result of said invasion was.

As far as Kakazu goes, since when does it matter who defeated the target? We know that they were both drawn into the fight. You phrase it as if Kakazu was on the sidelines while Hidan did all the work. When in reality given the fact that they were both drawn into the fight and it cuts to her defeat we had no idea what either of them did during. The fact is, they had a target and a goal for said target. They were both drawn into fighting the target, and the chapter cut to the targets defeat without showing the content of the battle. An actual goal of the organization and thus advancement of the story.

Bringing up his feat regarding Hashirama was really to compare to your mention of her feat regarding Obito. I was not trying to set it apart and say that it was somehow a contribution to the story lore or plot related. The difference being, he survived, she did not. Although, it would technically count as lore of the story, something of major impact on Taigakure given his actions after the battle. And a feat attributed to him alone and not him and two others.

Okay but it did not matter in the end. On top of that, what she did took years of study and analysis but failed to have any form of affect later, at all.

Yes, it was a part of Nagato's history, it doesn't change the fact that we've seen more of her history than other members of Akatsuki. Other than the fact that Kakuzu survived Hashirama, what do we know about Hidan and Kakuzu? Itachi played the villain, in the end it turned out that wasn't the case, but he definitely got the villain treatment, and that's pretty much the only thing that separates Konan from her peers.

Once again, not what I meant by history. Admittedly poor phrasing on my part we do know that the events leading them to where they ended up where results of their own actions. Again I ask you can you name something that she did apart from Nagato and Yahiko That actually stuck? The entirety of the organization got the villain treatment. Based simply on their goals and plans for the world alone. Yes, Konan as an individual did not but that should not matter. She got the short end of the stick because she, as a character, was always part of a group. And the one chance Kishimoto had to make her have a lasting effect he chose not to. Seems honestly more like he went out of his way not to.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

And once again, what is the indication of this? No, Konan can get credit for invading the leaf village. I agree with you on that. However, what does that matter when the only actual thing of note about that event was the fact that Nagato destroyed it? The actual goal of the invasion was not the invasion itself but was to capture Naruto. The significance of the invasion, the village's destruction, was something that Konan had no part of. You're basically trying to pass it off like the invasion of the village was something of note. It was not. The result of said invasion was.

The result was the destruction of Konoha, including the temporary loss of Tsunade that lead to the rise of Danzo.

As far as Kakazu goes, since when does it matter who defeated the target? We know that they were both drawn into the fight. You phrase it as if Kakazu was on the sidelines while Hidan did all the work. When in reality given the fact that they were both drawn into the fight and it cuts to her defeat we had no idea what either of them did during. The fact is, they had a target and a goal for said target. They were both drawn into fighting the target, and the chapter cut to the targets defeat without showing the content of the battle. An actual goal of the organization and thus advancement of the story.

It does. Otherwise Konan would get credit for Amegakure's coup, and that would be the end of this. Who did the work would seem to be pretty important. So Kakuzu 'might' have been involved, thusly the entirety of Kakuzu's accomplishments amounts to what he may have done off-panel to contribute in some way to the defeat of Yugito.

Bringing up his feat regarding Hashirama was really to compare to your mention of her feat regarding Obito. I was not trying to set it apart and say that it was somehow a contribution to the story lore or plot related. The difference being, he survived, she did not. Although, it would technically count as lore of the story, something of major impact on Taigakure given his actions after the battle. And a feat attributed to him alone and not him and two others.

Okay but it did not matter in the end. On top of that, what she did took years of study and analysis but failed to have any form of affect later, at all.

You said such feats weren't what you were addressing, so I moved beyond them. Who knows how Kakuzu survived Hashirama, we know what Konan managed against Obito. I don't see why it would be suggested that his feat would simply be superior.

Once again, not what I meant by history. Admittedly poor phrasing on my part we do know that the events leading them to where they ended up where results of their own actions. Again I ask you can you name something that she did apart from Nagato and Yahiko That actually stuck? The entirety of the organization got the villain treatment. Based simply on their goals and plans for the world alone.

No, I couldn't. She was a part of their childhood, and she was supremely loyal to Nagato. The only time we saw her act independently was her battle against Tobi. However, can you name something Nagato did apart from Konan, they were always together that doesn't take away from what she did somehow. Can you show something Hidan did apart from Kakuzu or vice-versa. You're asking these questions of Konan, but I'm sure if you decided to apply them to some other members of Akatsuki you'd run into similar scenarios.

Yes, Konan as an individual did not but that should not matter. She got the short end of the stick because she, as a character, was always part of a group. And the one chance Kishimoto had to make her have a lasting effect he chose not to. Seems honestly more like he went out of his way not to.

Completely agreed.

 

[KiSwordsman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

The result was the destruction of Konoha, including the temporary loss of Tsunade that lead to the rise of Danzo.

I'm confused on this one. What led to Tsunade's temporary coma was the destruction of the village which was Nagato's doing, which led to the rise of Danzo.

It does. Otherwise Konan would get credit for Amegakure's coup, and that would be the end of this. Who did the work would seem to be pretty important. So Kakuzu 'might' have been involved, thusly the entirety of Kakuzu's accomplishments amounts to what he may have done off-panel to contribute in some way to the defeat of Yugito.

Yes, I Know however, there is no way to determine the amount of work that each member contributed. All we know is she was defeated by Hidan's technique. But we know that they both got brought into the fight, and it wasn't a Roshi situation or three tails situation where Hidan complained about doing all the work, or Kakazu was seen sitting behind a destroyed section of the building while Hidan finished up.

You said such feats weren't what you were addressing, so I moved beyond them. Who knows how Kakuzu survived Hashirama, we know what Konan managed against Obito. I don't see why it would be suggested that his feat would simply be superior.

Yet, her fight with Obito keeps being brought up. This isn't the battle thread, I'm not trying to use his fight against Hashirama to say that he has some type of amazing ability which allowed him to survive. The fact of the matter however, he did survive. Even if we don't know the content of the fight. Konan we do know the content however, we know she died. She died, he didn't. I don't remember saying that it was a superior feat on his part. I just know he was still alive by the end of it.

No, I couldn't. She was a part of their childhood, and she was supremely loyal to Nagato. The only time we saw her act independently was her battle against Tobi. However, can you name something Nagato did apart from Konan, they were always together that doesn't take away from what she did somehow. Can you show something Hidan did apart from Kakuzu or vice-versa. You're asking these questions of Konan, but I'm sure if you decided to apply them to some other members of Akatsuki you'd run into similar scenarios.

Nagato fought and killed Jiraiya one the legendary three ninja. A battle that Konan was made to retreat from after being easily neutralized by said ninja. A battle that we actually saw Nagato take on the majority of the work, or all of it.

I can name something that both Hidan and Kakazu did apart from each other. Like I said before, he fought Hashirama. The results of which led him to kill the higher-ups of his village steal their forbidden techniques and live as long as he did.

Hidan was simply an insane individual who killed his neighbors after being frustrated that his hometown was being turned into a tourist site instead of a ninja village.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

I'm confused on this one. What led to Tsunade's temporary coma was the destruction of the village which was Nagato's doing, which led to the rise of Danzo.

What are you confused about? You said I tried to pass of the invasion "as something of note", and then finished with "result of said invasion was." I assumed you wished for me to provide the result of said invasion. So, I did.

Yes, I Know however, there is no way to determine the amount of work that each member contributed. All we know is she was defeated by Hidan's technique. But we know that they both got brought into the fight, and it wasn't a Roshi situation or three tails situation where Hidan complained about doing all the work, or Kakazu was seen sitting behind a destroyed section of the building while Hidan finished up.

So you're giving Kakuzu the benefit of the doubt when the manga didn't show anything. And yet Konan gets nothing. You can see why Kakuzu seems to be such a question when the actual accomplishment that you attribute to him is something that we haven't been shown he did much to contribute to, other than be there.

Yet, her fight with Obito keeps being brought up. This isn't the battle thread, I'm not trying to use his fight against Hashirama to say that he has some type of amazing ability which allowed him to survive. The fact of the matter however, he did survive. Even if we don't know the content of the fight. Konan we do know the content however, we know she died. She died, he didn't. I don't remember saying that it was a superior feat on his part. I just know he was still alive by the end of it.

When you keep suggesting that that is some significant difference, I'm assuming there's a reason.

Nagato fought and killed Jiraiya one the legendary three ninja. A battle that Konan was made to retreat from after being easily neutralized by said ninja. A battle that we actually saw Nagato take on the majority of the work, or all of it.

I can name something that both Hidan and Kakazu did apart from each other. Like I said before, he fought Hashirama. The results of which led him to kill the higher-ups of his village steal their forbidden techniques and live as long as he did.

Hidan was simply an insane individual who killed his neighbors after being frustrated that his hometown was being turned into a tourist site instead of a ninja village.

But she was there. And something we actually saw and has some relevance or bearing "that actually stuck" as you put it? It was your question, I'm just applying it to other members of Akatsuki equally. The answers so far seem to be Kakuzu failed in his assassination attempt of Hashirama, he killed some old folks and fled his village, and Hidan killed some random unknown people. I can't imagine that any of these would've been accepted as responses to the question you put forth; a failure and killing random people...that actually sounds a lot like what you set out in Konan's column.

 

[KiSwordsman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

What are you confused about? You said I tried to pass of the invasion "as something of note", and then finished with "result of said invasion was." I assumed you wished for me to provide the result of said invasion. So, I did.

I assumed you had an argument in her defense regarding that. That's where the confusion came from.

So you're giving Kakuzu the benefit of the doubt when the manga didn't show anything. And yet Konan gets nothing. You can see why Kakuzu seems to be such a question when the actual accomplishment that you attribute to him is something that we haven't been shown he did much to contribute to, other than be there.

What would she get the benefit of the doubt for? If Nagato started a fight with Jiraiya and cut to the end of the fight with Jiraiya dead and her being there with him I'd give her the same credit. However, we actually know what she did. She started fighting, was neutralized and asked to leave by Nagato. We know that Kakazu got drawn into the fight with the host and cut to the end of the fight. If the narrative had given some sort of indication that it was like Deidara and the three tails or Kisame and Roshi he'd lose that credit.

When you keep suggesting that that is some significant difference, I'm assuming there's a reason.

The difference as I've stated multiple times now, he survived she did not. This may simply be my interpretation but it seems as though you're phrasing it like I'm saying that he deserves more credit because Hashirama might have been a superior opponent. If that's the case, I'm not doing so. The main difference is Kakazu survival. Had Konan survived Obito I would not be so harsh. However not only did she not survive him all the effort she spend trying to defeat him didn't amount to anything

But she was there. And something we actually saw and has some relevance or bearing "that actually stuck" as you put it? It was your question, I'm just applying it to other members of Akatsuki equally. The answers so far seem to be Kakuzu failed in his assassination attempt of Hashirama, he killed some old folks and fled his village, and Hidan killed some random unknown people. I can't imagine that any of these would've been accepted as responses to the question you put forth; a failure and killing random people...that actually sounds a lot like what you set out in Konan's column

You asked me to name something that they've done apart from each other. I did. The same cannot be said for Konan in any instance except for her fight with Obito, which I acknowledged. However, the fact that that fight resulted in her death coupled with the fact that her efforts during said fight were practically nullified is where my distaste for the character comes from.

She was there, then we saw her leave on Nagato's command. That's something that we saw. Which would mean that it's not the same as the Kakazu situation. Just like I don't give Obito credit for capturing the three tails given the content of the situation. Obito was there but as stated by Deidara, he did all the work or most of it. And the question can be applied to the other members. Even Zetsu. It's something that they've done separate from their partners within the organization. All except for her, and as we agreed that's the problem.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

I assumed you had an argument in her defense regarding that. That's where the confusion came from.

It was just the answer to a specific question.

What would she get the benefit of the doubt for? If Nagato started a fight with Jiraiya and cut to the end of the fight with Jiraiya dead and her being there with him I'd give her the same credit. However, we actually know what she did. She started fighting, was neutralized and asked to leave by Nagato. We know that Kakazu got drawn into the fight with the host and cut to the end of the fight. If the narrative had given some sort of indication that it was like Deidara and the three tails or Kisame and Roshi he'd lose that credit.

Getting some credit for accomplishments that she was involved with alongside her partner. Because on the one hand you're pointing out that she's never done something apart from Nagato as a major factor in your claim that she's the only member not to have accomplished something, but the only actual 'accomplishment' you put forward for Kakuzu is one that he was involved with alongside his partner.

The difference as I've stated multiple times now, he survived she did not. This may simply be my interpretation but it seems as though you're phrasing it like I'm saying that he deserves more credit because Hashirama might have been a superior opponent. If that's the case, I'm not doing so. The main difference is Kakazu survival. Had Konan survived Obito I would not be so harsh. However not only did she not survive him all the effort she spend trying to defeat him didn't amount to anything

And I'm trying to figure how that survival makes a difference when the only purpose of my original mention was feats, and Kakuzu's survival after his failure under unknown circumstances can't seriously be held up over Konan's actual battle.

You asked me to name something that they've done apart from each other. I did. The same cannot be said for Konan in any instance except for her fight with Obito, which I acknowledged. However, the fact that that fight resulted in her death coupled with the fact that her efforts during said fight were practically nullified is where my distaste for the character comes from.

She was there, then we saw her leave on Nagato's command. That's something that we saw. Which would mean that it's not the same as the Kakazu situation. Just like I don't give Obito credit for capturing the three tails given the content of the situation. Obito was there but as stated by Deidara, he did all the work or most of it. And the question can be applied to the other members. Even Zetsu. It's something that they've done separate from their partners within the organization. All except for her, and as we agreed that's the problem.

I was simply asking the same question of you, I didn't bother to write it out completely because I thought that would be clear. The fact that the result is the same for Konan and some of her peers speaks for itself. So Obito was there and his partner did most of the work or all of it and so he doesn't get credit, fine. Konan was there and her partner did most of the work and so she doesn't get credit, ok. Kakuzu was there and his partner did most of the work and so he gets credit....why? You're applying two different standards without any actual reasoning for that difference. That's the problem.

 

[KiSwordsman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Getting some credit for accomplishments that she was involved with alongside her partner. Because on the one hand you're pointing out that she's never done something apart from Nagato as a major factor in your claim that she's the only member not to have accomplished something, but the only actual 'accomplishment' you put forward for Kakuzu is one that he was involved with alongside his partner.

Actually, as stated below, that was what I meant by history earlier. Which is why I asked the question. But you know what, okay. She gets credit for being vaguely involved in the rebellion from which we see no conflict. Remember, it started after Yahiko died. Before that, we only saw the efforts of the peaceful Akatsuki.

The difference being we actually saw the conflict with the two tails. Even if Kakazu's involvement was vauge However, you are right.

And I'm trying to figure how that survival makes a difference when the only purpose of my original mention was feats, and Kakuzu's survival after his failure under unknown circumstances can't seriously be held up over Konan's actual battle.

Okay, fair enough. I concede for this one. Because I have already agreed that her fight against Obito was impressive, however the fact that she died and nothing came of it diminished the feat in my eyes. However, you are correct.

I was simply asking the same question of you, I didn't bother to write it out completely because I thought that would be clear. The fact that the result is the same for Konan and some of her peers speaks for itself. So Obito was there and his partner did most of the work or all of it and so he doesn't get credit, fine. Konan was there and her partner did most of the work and so she doesn't get credit, ok. Kakuzu was there and his partner did most of the work and so he gets credit....why? You're applying two different standards without any actual reasoning for that difference. That's the problem.

The difference for Deidara and Nagato are clear. Deidara claimed that he did all of the work, Nagato told Konan to leave the fight. What's the indication that Hidan did most of the work in the fight? The fact that she was defeated by his technique? That's the difference here. For instance, had Deidara not claimed to be doing the heavy lifting, I'd be giving Obito the same credit. Had Hidan complained to him about doing most of the work at the end of the fight, that would be one thing. However, that's not the case.

I understand what you're trying to say, however, unlike the previous situations that I mentioned, the narrative gave no indication on who pulled more weight in the fight. It was clear with Deidara given what he said, it was clear with Nagato given the fact that we actually saw her leave. With the two tails host however, not so much. So, it's not the same.

The mention of actions without a partner is what I meant by history. Admittedly once again, poor phrasing on my part. That's why I brought it up to clarify when you said that we know more about her history than other members even though it was through other people. Something that every one of the other members can claim.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

The difference for Deidara and Nagato are clear. Deidara claimed that he did all of the work, Nagato told Konan to leave the fight. What's the indication that Hidan did most of the work in the fight? The fact that she was defeated by his technique? That's the difference here. For instance, had Deidara not claimed to be doing the heavy lifting, I'd be giving Obito the same credit. Had Hidan complained to him about doing most of the work at the end of the fight, that would be one thing. However, that's not the case.

I understand what you're trying to say, however, unlike the previous situations that I mentioned, the narrative gave no indication on who pulled more weight in the fight. It was clear with Deidara given what he said, it was clear with Nagato given the fact that we actually saw her leave. With the two tails host however, not so much. So, it's not the same.

The mention of actions without a partner is what I meant by history. Admittedly once again, poor phrasing on my part. That's why I brought it up to clarify when you said that we know more about her history than other members even though it was through other people. Something that every one of the other members can claim.

The narrative does give more weight to one of the two because it shows that it was Hidan's technique that brought Yugito down. The biggest problem I have with this is that for Kakuzu to have an 'accomplishment' you have to assume that he played a significant role in the capture of Yugito, and there isn't anything that the manga shows that actually points to that, which is why I've said you're giving him the benefit of the doubt, and considering that we've seen that they're more than willing to fight separately, it's a substantive amount of doubt when it comes to his potential contribution.

 

[gnut]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

man,kakashi's susanoo is more spam than obito being tobi...17pgs

 

[Fox666]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Why the fuck Madara went through all the trouble to get his left Rinnegan? He could have just pulled that third eye of his.

 

[Hunt]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Visual for the Robot version of naruto
HS

 

[Federicoxxx]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

erm sorry to ask this here.. but where is the chapter? did i miss something? golden week ?

no .. naruto .. and no other mangas? ..Wednesday today ?

 

[Lomahongva]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

erm sorry to ask this here.. but where is the chapter? did i miss something? golden week ?

no .. naruto .. and no other mangas? ..Wednesday today ?

Since last week the distribution day of the manga magazines in Japan has changed to avoid early leaks. Expect them tomorrow.

 

[Federicoxxx]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Since last week the distribution day of the manga magazines in Japan has changed to avoid early leaks. Expect them tomorrow.

thanks!

 

[KiSwordsman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Wait, what fight are you talking about here?

A fight in the arena thread after that specific chapter came out. I ended up resurrecting the thread and there was a change in the rules before it died the first time. At first the thread was Hiruzen and Chiyo versus Danzo. It was changed to a Battle Royale where it was everyone versus everyone. After the "I can use five elements" chapter, Hiruzen is suddenly smart enough to not get captured by Kotoamatsukami for… Reasons. Also smart enough to have a counter ready for Izanagi before even seeing it. Plus, he and Chiyo, despite having no means to detect Kotoamatsukami would be able to detect it within Hiruzen and dispel it… Somehow. I mean that's completely ignoring the very nature of the technique.

Even if one were to argue that Hiruzen is a very analytical ninja and can decipher and break down a technique fairly quickly, or simply that he just knows all of the leaf techniques, (once again coming from the fact that he can use five elements) he'd have to see it at least one time. With Danzo manipulating his mind and the simple fact that he'd have to use that opening to unlock his arm it would not be the case. All of these things coming from the fact that he can use five elements, with four shadow clone's, as a zombie. That's bullshit.

 

[Erinyes]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

So... so scary, enjoy !

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Not sure if this had anything to do with trust. Given the circumstances, they both had to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.

Given their history and how Naruto is, Sasuke allowing Naruto to do what he wants without expecting it to fail or be a screw-up clearly shows trust in his ability.

Sasuke would not risk the faith of the world to save those 2. If somehow those rods would have been removed (like pulled up by that gravity well, or his "mother" pulling them out somehow, like with BT something or God knows what else) Zetsu would immediately vanish in the ground. Sasuke is NOT the man to put his mates before the mission. In this case was not even needed. Sasuke is also not a man to gamble in this situation. He would have went for BZetsu first.

I also never said anything about him trusting Naruto to do something. All Kishi had to do is show us that Sasuke did not "forgot" about BZetsu and there would be no issue of it.
Moving on Sasuke was ported out of that dimension before he could have handled BZ, he would obviously not know of that BUT this is another indication as to why Sasuke would NOT leave something like this for chance. He would have dealt with BZ as fast as possible and not run away with the Bijus. You see if Naruto would have let BZ to be dealt with later he would be free right now as that "later" would have never happened as they were pulled out of that dimension. This was out of their hands BUT its just another indication as to why that was an action that needed to be a priority. So Naruto putting this as a priority = BZ sealed, Sasuke not doing this = BZ free. Again, all Kishi had to do is show Sasuke knew what Naruto was going to do, him trusting Naruto to deal with this is not an issue but he did not. Sasuke was running away apparently forgetting everything about BZ... Makes NO sense. Sasuke was the smart one FFS.

But it's not risking the faith of the world, which is the entire point. You're making Black Zetsu out to be this massive threat when nothing at all supports that. The series itself shows otherwise. If Black Zetsu had a way to easily and quickly revive Kaguya, he would never have had to manipulate events for the last couple thousand years. That's not even pointing out the whole different dimension part, where he would have had nothing and no one to use to even achieve his goal. I'm not even sure how Black Zetsu's words (at least in that translation) would apply, given that it implies he would be dependent on Kaguya reviving herself before he could do anyting, and if she's sealed, that ain't gonna happen.

There's nothing to suggest that Sasuke "forgot". The very fact that he left Naruto behind to do what he felt he had to do would support that, since as mentioned, he has throughout this arc trusted Naruto to handle his "part" of the work. And how is Sasuke not knowing something was gonna happen implication that he would have rushed to do something before said event happen? Sasuke ran away after talking with Naruto, that much is clear from his own comment. There's no reason that Sasuke would try and get Sakura and Kakashi to safety, but leave Naruto behind, or state that it's all over after Naruto arrives unless he had an idea of what Naruto was sticking around for. You claim it makes no sense for Sasuke to "forget" about Black Zetsu, yet seem to want to only believe that was what happen, instead of the more "sensible" approach of Sasuke simply knowing or trusting Naruto to handle it. Now why would Sasuke leave it to Naruto and not do it himself if that was the case? Perhaps because if worst came to worst, Naruto would be far more capable in that situation, what with his ability to sense hatred already showing that he could find targets that normally wouldn't be capable of being sensed. Sasuke's not a sensor, the Sharingan can't see Zetsus, and as far as we know, the same is true of the Rinnegan. He would be the "less effective" option, which wouldn't fit his character to ignore.

Your argument is about BZ's ability to get back and get her mother back.

They tie into each other.