Semifinal Natsu vs August

[Axiomus]

I should note that August is not comparable to Rufus. I give August the benefit of being able to cast dragon slaying magic, because he uses copy magic and he managed to use a fire spell against Natsu. The spell is also would have been as powerful as Natsu's attacks, even if it wasn't dragon slaying magic. Rufus was never shown using dragon slaying magic. He used a spell that he's already used before. Even if Rufus could theoretically conjure up dragon slaying magic, he still wouldn't be as strong as Natsu. Rufus is still limited by his vastly inferior magical power, which is something that August does not suffer from.

 

[Tirl]

He saw Natsu's fire spell rekt the twins' unison raid. Natsu's fire was obviously more hotter and powerful than his. It's not even a comparison.

Owning Sting and Rogue does prove that Natsu's flames are stronger than Rufus'.

He saw Sting and Rogue (both who're stronger than him) get rekt by Natsu's fire. He also said he never once seen them get a beat down like that.

If Karma of the Burning Land was stronger than Natsu's flames, then he would be stronger than Sting and Rogue combined - but he's not.

I said his fire was stronger. It doesn't mean Rufus stronger than Natsu, what are you talking about???

Natsu > Zancrow
Black god's fire > Dragon's fire.

 

[Axiomus]

I said his fire was stronger. It doesn't mean Rufus stronger than Natsu, what are you talking about???

Natsu > Zancrow
Black god's fire > Dragon's fire.

Tenrou Natsu < Zancrow
Tenrou Natsu's dragon fire < Zancrow's god fire.
Current Natsu > Zancrow
Current Natsu's dragon fire > Zancrow's god fire
GMG Natsu > Rufus
GMG Natsu's dragon fire > Rufus' Karma of the Burning Lands

Again, Gray said he's felt hotter flames.

 

[BluePegasus]

Yeah. Owning Sting and Rogue does prove that Natsu's flames are stronger than Rufus'. The strongest opponent Karma of the Burning Lands is Eve Tearm, who is nowhere near Sting or Rogue's level. The fact that Gray outright says he's felt hotter flames (again Natsu is the strongest fire mage Gray knows of) sets this in stone. Plus, Natsu's flames have larger AoE.

That still doesn't proof anything. Rufus couldn't have known until he would've fought the Twin Dragons himself.

 

[OharaLibrarian]

You make good point, I must say. But there are some aspects about Copy Magic you seem to forget.

For example, if you think that August can't keep using the magic types he has copied in the past, how do you explain him using Sleep Magic? I mean, the spell he casted to take out Brandish was out of his own caliber and not copied from anyone else at that very moment. If it was, then I'd like to know from who. Since it's a magic that is incredibly hax, it definitely isn't a "basic side spell" like you claim his magical bullets to be.

Sleep magic also sounds like a relatively basic type of magic to use (thus another of his basic magics), it isn't anything devastating like Larcade's R.I.P.. The fact that he used it against Brandish is impressive, but it might be to her being in a confused and fragile state. Again, if he could've just made Gildarts fall asleep to defeat him, he would've done so.

 

[Axiomus]

That still doesn't proof anything. Rufus couldn't have known until he would've fought the Twin Dragons himself.

If Rufus thought he could have beaten the twin dragons by himself or that his fire is hotter than Natsu's, he's been proven wrong.

 

[BluePegasus]

If Rufus thought he could have beaten the twin dragons by himself or that his fire is hotter than Natsu's, he's been proven wrong.

How? Like, how does Natsu beating the Twin Dragons proof that Rufus can't? What a logic lol.

 

[Axiomus]

How? Like, how does Natsu beating the Twin Dragons proof that Rufus can't? What a logic lol.

Because the twin dragons have faced opponents way stronger than Rufus (like the GMG dragons, Mard Geer, Jiemma) without getting owned as badly as Rufus did against Gray.

 

[BluePegasus]

Because the twin dragons have faced opponents way stronger than Rufus (like the GMG dragons, Mard Geer, Jiemma) without getting owned like Rufus did against Gray. And again, Gray specifically said that he's felt hotter flames.

Do you even know what you're saying?

We're talking about the GMG itself yet you're talking about the feats that the Twin Dragons obtained after the GMG happened.

And I'll say it one more time, Rufus couldn't have known that Natsu's flames were hotter UNTIL Gray said so. THAT'S WHY HE DIDN'T USE FIRE DRAGON SLAYER MAGIC BEFORE THAT.

This disussion is a mess.

 

[LaGOAT]

How is this still an arguement?

I'm a huge Natsu fan but come on, this is August...

It's like comparing
Natsu trying to solo Kaguya
Ichigo trying to solo Yawch
Goku trying to solo Buu

There are just some fights where you need back up and this is one of them.

Natsu can defeat August, but not without help. August shoyld take this handidly

Exactly that the point. They beat the main villain with help and logic FT doesn't work that way natsu beat the final villain with a base punch he didn't get help august isn't above zeref. And zeref>august so pick ur poison it's either u believe august>zeref (which I believe in my eyes he is) or accept the feats from POF natsu oneshotting a stronger villain which august can't tank

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2017 ---

Why are we discussing PoF Natsu's feats. Let's not.

Talk to the judges if he take it out it would be more of a logical debate trust me I don't want POF becuase it BS and convincent for MCs

 

[Axiomus]

Do you even know what you're saying?

We're talking about the GMG itself yet you're talking about the feats that the Twin Dragons obtained after the GMG happened and even during the Tartaros arc?

And I'll say it one more time, Rufus couldn't have known that Natsu's flames were hotter UNTIL Gray said so. THAT'S WHY HE DIDN'T USE FIRE DRAGON SLAYER MAGIC BEFORE THAT.

This disussion is a mess.

GMG and Tartarus are separate by 2 weeks. Rather than asking me how Natsu beating Sting and Rogue proves that Rufus can't, you should ask what has Rufus done to suggest he can solo the twin dragons? His best feat is beating Eve Tearm, who was a fodder compared to Sting and Rogue. Rufus doesn't even have a memory of Sting's base mode Holy Nova of ever being blocked. What makes you think he was confident in being able to take on both Sting and Rogue in dragon force?

Again, Rufus didn't actually copy dragon slaying magic. The magic that he did use wasn't actually stronger than dragon slaying magic either. So the argument for why Rufus didn't use dragon slaying magic is quite literally that he didn't know how powerful it was going to be... Which is odd, because it's simultaneously the magic of someone with an attack that he's never seen anyone block until a day prior, and the magic of the guy who managed to block it.

 

[OharaLibrarian]

August can only copy magic that is in effect, and Natsu never used a spell against August which means that was fire attacl he copoed before. August does retain all the magic he has copied. Every magic he has is copied.

When is that stated however? We don't know the details of his magic, so that's mostly an assumption. We saw him on two occasions possibly copy either Irene's beams or/and Freed's barrier, so I'd say the definition of that is still rather hazy.

That was meteor he used against Gild, we have never seen another move like that and he used Dim's finger laser against Mira. He also used a barrier to block Laxus' L bolt.

All the contrary, we have seen other moves like that. Sawyer's magic and Laxus's magic follow the same principle of moving at ultra-high speeds, so the possibility of another move that allows one to dash at a very fast velocity is completely possible. Your point with Dimaria's finger laser completely proves mine: if it's a magic so easy that even a time user like Dimaria who uses different magic could learn, the same principle can be applied to August.

He didn't use Erik or Macbeth's magic against Gild bcs of plot. I mean he could've just used any upper S12 power to beat Gild.

Then plot be it, but that still constitutes as canon evidence.

 

[Axiomus]

I guess what I am trying to say is this:

You can make the argument August was using dragon slaying magic because he used a fire spell when he was facing Natsu. This is too much of a coincidence to ignore, because it was revealed August copies his opponent's magic. The melt scene was also referenced in Gildarts' explanation of how August copies magic, the implication being that it was a display of August's copy magic. August was only facing one fire mage, and Natsu's fire comes from dragon slaying magic.

You can't really make the argument that Rufus knows dragon slaying magic, because he's never been shown using it. Even when the dragons showed up when the Eclipse was opened, Rufus still did not use dragon slaying magic in any capacity to help out. This is extremely odd if Rufus not only had the ability to use dragon slaying magic, but also believed himself to be stronger than the twin dragons.

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

I think August can copy DS, but that here doesn't matter on the result as much since either way, he has superior MP and much more versatility in this fight than Natsu does.

 

[Tirl]

Tenrou Natsu < Zancrow
Tenrou Natsu's dragon fire < Zancrow's god fire.
Current Natsu > Zancrow
Current Natsu's dragon fire > Zancrow's god fire

T.N > Zan
T.N fire < Zan fire
C.N >>>>>>> Zan
C.N fire < Zan fire

So, C.N easily kills Zan, but Zan's fire still stronger. C.N can burn god's fire but bc of his power, not just his fire.

Do you think August's fire was stronger than Natsu's fire? No, just August is too powerfull.

-Tenrou Natsu < Zancrow

Natsu easily defeated Zancrow with small part of black fire.

 

[King of kings]

Natsu one-shot August

 

[Invel > Zeref]

Rather than asking me how Natsu beating Sting and Rogue proves that Rufus can't, you should ask what has Rufus done to suggest he can solo the twin dragons? His best feat is beating Eve Tearm, who was a fodder compared to Sting and Rogue. Rufus doesn't even have a memory of Sting's base mode Holy Nova of ever being blocked. What makes you think he was confident in being able to take on both Sting and Rogue in dragon force?

Well, Rufus gave Gray a challenge and Base Natsu (The guy who defeated both slayers) and Gray were confirmed to be equals in sun village arc

 

[inactive lurker account]

Here's what I worry about. Hiro's poor choreography and rushed schedule and lack of explanation as far as August is concerned, as well as the reputation and portrayal of the king of magic that happens to be extremely difficult to present on-panel in an adequate manner, would give people alibis and loopholes to say that August is not really as formidable as we are led to believe. I wonder how much of this tendency for underestimation is motivated by spite, or favoritism towards some other character, or the desire to nerf an overpowered template, or the wish to cut down expectations and temper the hype, or mere commitment to some principles of interpretation and assessment that favor on-panel performance...

The other tricky thing is that unlike Irene's enchantment, which may be seen as an ability that applies across a wide continuous range of parameters, August's copying ability discretely deals with magic on a spell by spell or a category by category basis. This structural feature also makes it easier to downplay what August can do, by alleging that certain categories are not allowed, or that he can only copy a few attacks at a time, or that there are limits to spell retention, and so on.

 

[Axiomus]

T.N > Zan
T.N fire < Zan fire
C.N >>>>>>> Zan
C.N fire < Zan fire

So, C.N easily kills Zan, but Zan's fire still stronger. C.N can burn god's fire but bc of his power, not just his fire.

Do you think August's fire was stronger than Natsu's fire? No, just August is too powerfull.

-Tenrou Natsu < Zancrow

Natsu easily defeated Zancrow with small part of black fire.

The power level of the fire is inherently tied to the power level of the user. Even excluding Natsu, the strongest fire user in the series is Igneel - which is still dragon fire. August's fire isn't stronger than Natsu's. Natsu arguably has stronger attacks than August. August wins this match merely because he can negate caster magic, which would make Natsu's attacks less effective.

Well, Rufus gave Gray a challenge and Base Natsu (The guy who defeated both slayers) and Gray were confirmed to be equals in sun village arc

Rufus didn't give Gray anywhere near as much difficulty as Sting did for Natsu and Gajeel. Maybe he's close to Sting and Rogue individually, but certainly not together.

 

[Jko]

I guess what I am trying to say is this:

You can make the argument August was using dragon slaying magic because he used a fire spell when he was facing Natsu. This is too much of a coincidence to ignore, because it was revealed August copies his opponent's magic. The melt scene was also referenced in Gildarts' explanation of how August copies magic, the implication being that it was a display of August's copy magic. August was only facing one fire mage, and Natsu's fire comes from dragon slaying magic.

You can't really make the argument that Rufus knows dragon slaying magic, because he's never been shown using it. Even when the dragons showed up when the Eclipse was opened, Rufus still did not use dragon slaying magic in any capacity to help out. This is extremely odd if Rufus not only had the ability to use dragon slaying magic, but also believed himself to be stronger than the twin dragons.

August can only copy spells a mage uses. He cant copy by just glancing at them or he would've knew everyone's magic as soon as he met them.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 9, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 9, 2017 ---

When is that stated however? We don't know the details of his magic, so that's mostly an assumption. We saw him on two occasions possibly copy either Irene's beams or/and Freed's barrier, so I'd say the definition of that is still rather hazy.



All the contrary, we have seen other moves like that. Sawyer's magic and Laxus's magic follow the same principle of moving at ultra-high speeds, so the possibility of another move that allows one to dash at a very fast velocity is completely possible. Your point with Dimaria's finger laser completely proves mine: if it's a magic so easy that even a time user like Dimaria who uses different magic could learn, the same principle can be applied to August.


Then plot be it, but that still constitutes as canon evidence.

He used a finger beam not a beam out of the air. The only person who has used a finger beam that was hard to track was Dim.

Sawyer's magic only slows down the target's perception, it doesn't make August faster. Even if it was a different move we know he had to copy it as all his moves are copied off someone else.

August learned all of his spells from different mages. If he uses a spell that looks eerily similar to another character he knows or has face it is most likely because he copied it.