Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

[GrySun]

Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

Spoiler: Examples of Approved roles

I. Troublemaker

II. Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2 (locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.

I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:

• A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
• A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.

Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.

 

[GrySun]

Redo the review ?

Should be fast if you use the „brevity“ format Lambu and Vand used.

 

[Hardy]

Noted. So it should be able to freely move the stolen vote around then like a Noble does with his extra vote?

I never liked the gambler and the more I see it used, the less I like the noble, so there is that.

 

[Farfalla]

Confused Guide (Townie): NO. Enough redirects, they only make the game stressful, so fully against the purpose of playing something.

Old Cat Lady (Townie): NO. Broken, could completely get anti-town parties to crumble. No townie role alone should be allowed to achieve that.

The Greedy Notary (3rd Party): NO. That would be the easiest way for a player to win a game, completely effort-free LOL. Plus, Jesus Christ, the work a host would have to go thru with it...

Police Officer (Townie): NO. Honestly, we don't need a Doctor upgrade...

Werewolf (Townie): NO. A town role that confuses the Detective (wat) and is basically an OP version of the PGO, which alrdy got nerfed in the past...



Could anyone link me the post that contains the rest of those?

 

[James Rye]

I never liked the gambler and the more I see it used, the less I like the noble, so there is that.

Well, then that is just you disliking roles with more than one vote. Not the fault of the roles.

 

[GrySun]

New roles suggestions:

Troublemaker (Townie)
Night Action - Can once per game tell the Host that the troublemaker wishes to agitate the Townsfolk and increase the lynch amount to two the following day. If successful, the Host announces at the start of the day phase that the top two voted players will be lynched today.

Take this role if Hosts want DL option for their game, finally included some rules regarding DL in the rule thread so we no longer have hosts doing things differently like letting DLs happen right away, after an extension, after an extension but after tieing again, not letting DLs happen at, decide with coin-toss, etc. Because despite what the roles say happen here:

• If one or more players have the same amount of votes and locked votes, each player is getting the possibility to change his vote one more time. The regular day phase is being extended for the means of further discussions.
• If the voting result is the same by the end of the extended day phase, both players are being lynched.

I had plenty of different experience regarding DL in various games despite what it says here.
Changes the above to "coin-toss between tied players to decide death" and it would prevent extensions thus making the game faster and it avoids DL obsession, often resulting in lengthening the game instead of shortening it.

Energy Drink Promoter (Townie)
Night Action - Can once per game give another one-time-use-role an Energy Drink to refill their action to use it a second time in the game.

Thought it would be a fun idea to see a Vigilante shoot twice or for a PGO to "reload" his gun after already using it or a Strongman tricking a townie role to give him a 2nd unblockable kill, etc. And if we get more one-time-use roles like Troublemaker above, this role's value rises.

Nurse (Townie)
Night Action - The Nurse can "save" a person per night phase i.e. she will PM the host during the night phase and can request to protect a player, but has a 50% chance of failing to protect his target. If both survive the night and the Nurse had a successful protect action, then her target can‘t die the next day to any daykilling role.

Basically Insane Doc without chance to kill but still chance to fail + day-protection ability like BG but only in case of night action success.

Helpful Maid (Townie)
Night Action - The Maid can support a player per night to rise his action's priority up by 1 Level. If a Level 1 Priority action gets support it becomes unblockable. The Maid does not know her support status.

Unhelpful Maid (Townie)
Night Action - The Maid can support a player per night but the action's priority sinks by 1 Level. If a Level 3 Priority action gets this kind of support it becomes unskilled with a 50% chance of failure. The Maid does not know her support status.

Thought a "support" role would be pretty cool depending on action and situation (like two dets target PGO; instead of coin-toss due Maid support the other det's action happens first and he dies, etc) especially if said support could also be unhelpful. Maybe helpful/unhelpful could be changed to sane, insane which could also warrant a naive Maid or a paranoid Maid if the insane should have 50/50 on whenever raising a priority level or sinking it.

Confused Guide (Townie)
Night Action - Targets a player per night and redirects their target to a player of his choosing. If the Confused Guide dies, the Host reveals the list of targets and changed targets the past nights.

A simple redirect action that could make use of early BP claims trying to redirect kill actions to them (and by accident end up killing a fake BP Mafia claim with their very own team kill action) or who simply hopes to redirect mafia blocks and such to less important targets. Like Prostitute could work in town's favor or against it if det and doc actions end up redirected.

Old Cat Lady (Townie)
Night Action - Targets a player per night and gets told of all the actions used on said target this night.

Basically a "present-day Mortician" who knows what actions were used on the target but not from who. Basically the whole playerbase is her neighborhood now but she can only observe one person per night. Unlike Mortician she finds out nothing about past nights, only the current one.

Notary (Townie)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Townie adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 3 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Mafia/TP reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -3.

The idea is to have a vote related Role who gains stronger the more Townies are lynched (by collecting "Wills" dues the Notary name) but weaker the more Mafia are lynched. Thus this role impacts voting by its vote having more value than others. Its downsize is that it cannot really control the flow of growth or decrease due being passive. It can hide its high value by voting either for the already highest voted for (because it doesn't matter if players see 6 votes while it actually has 8 due the Notary vote being worth 3) or voting for the lowest (so that 2 votes become 4 but still lower than 5 or 6 of somebody else). Same goes for low value as it effects the vote count overall (meaning a Notary of a successful Townie group lynching many Mafias in quick succession can hide his low vote value by voting for the lowest voted for lynch victim or he uses it on the 2nd or 3rd highest voted for as readers will only see total vote amount but not their value aka they see 5 but those 5 are worth 3 only due notary being at -2 with his own vote.).
The idea is that the Notary could either become a strong Townie voting Pillar late-game if thing went south for Townie or even supports Townie despite some Mafia kills as his low vote count could prevent a townie from getting lynched over somebody else due Mafias misleading and voting for the framed Townie. Ofc Notary both strong and weak could also work in favor of the Mafia but that is a good weakness vote-relating roles should have.
This role also works the opposite way for Mafia.

Mafia Notary (Mafia)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Mafia/TP adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 3 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Townie reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -3.

Works similar like Townie Notary with the exception that due having a known team from the start it is stronger as it knows who to use a high value vote on or who to keep safe by reducing the vote amount due his low value vote.

Brought Judge (Mafia)
Day Action - Can once per game stop a lynching from happening. His role gets publicly confirmed by the Host at the start of a certain Day phase and he is told when.

Basically a Freeman/Innocent Child with control over the most important part of the day besides sharing of informations and role hints/claims, but on the Mafia side meaning they want to keep such a role for either a crucial time or to frame a townie by "saving" him/her. However their Brought Judge gets found out by town after a couple of days so they cannot keep the one-time-action for the end of the game because he gets found out before. Also I found the idea of an "Innocent Child" version for Mafia interesting because it puts time pressure on Mafia when to use the role's action, plus town might not even want to "waste" their time on killing a Brought Judge if he had already used his role, similar to the used up Strongman last game.

I'd like to propose a change to Mason role though I do not know if this needs to be done here or else where:

Mason (Townie): Masons are a Group of Townies that know each other to be innocent. They can communicate with each other at Night if they choose, but otherwise have no special abilities, until a Mason lynches a Mafia/TP with his vote, thus gaining a promotion to the next tier Mason role:

Mason Guardian: A Mason who acts as a Bodyguard.

Mason Inspector: A Mason who acts as a Det who doesn't know his sanity.

Mason Snitch: A Mason who acts as a Spy who doesn't know his sanity.

Basically a "level up" Mason system based on lynching Not-Townie roles. Could either be that they chose a role or that it follows a level up system like snitch-inspector-guardian or other way around, so the more successful lynches the better, more useful roles promotions.

Proposal for Mafia Burden:

Burden (Mafia): The Burden is like the Freeman on the Mafia Side. When the Burden is lynched or killed, the next night phase will skipped. All role effects which would have happened that Night(for example Mafia Poisoner kill, the missing Night kill for the Assassin Daykill) are moved to the next Night phase.

Proposal for Mafia Assassin:

Assassin (Mafia): The Assassin is a Mafia Member that may choose to kill at Daytime instead of the Night. Unlike Daytime Vigilantes he is not doing the Daykill publicly but via PM to the Host. Host activates the Daykill send to him after at minimum half the day phase has passed.

It is still a permanent Strongman kill action, but at least it gives Town the chance to talk about their action results or to votelock. That way Daykills become more tactical due the Absolute Majority Voting rule, because if availability and speed is no longer a deciding factor in daykilling, the knowledge and skill when to daykill and when to return to nightkills to avoid a daykill being stopped by Absolute Majority Voting rule becomes more important, meaning Assassin might become less of a "spam daykills" role and actually more of an "Assassin". The "at minimum" part means that the Host can activate daykills immediately if send by Assassin later after the half a day phase mark.

Proposal for Mafia Pirate:

Mafia Pirate (Mafia): At a night of his choice the Mafia Pirate may choose another Player he wants to steal the ability from. From that point in the game, the robbed Players's role changes to 'Townie/Unskilled Mafia' without him knowing it and the Mafia Pirate is free to use it as his own. The Mafia Pirate knows the ability stolen and uses it at the proper Day or Night phase that the stolen role demands. All original clauses of the stolen ability apply. If the Mafia Pirate tries to steal the ability from a Third Party Member as primary role, the Mafia Pirate dies. The Mafia Pirate does have the ability to kill at night like a normal Mafia member, but he cannot steal and kill at the same Night Phase.

Proposal for Lovers:

Lovers (Third Party): The Lovers are secondary roles that are assigned to two players of different groups which uses "Vows" as actions. "Vows" include Lovers Pain (killing a target), Lovers Endurance (protecting one of the Lovers) and Lovers Hate (redirecting a target's action to another target). If only one of them remains, he commits suicide on the following night. They win if their number is equal or greater than the number of townies remaining and all other non-townies are dead. They can talk in private at each Night phase.

Idea is for Lovers to become more versatile than just talking. Vows can also be a "one thing only", either each Vow can be used only once per game, giving Energy Drink Promoter even 3rd Party options to refuel, or the Lovers have to chose a Vow at the start of the game. Obviously a Vow action cannot be done at the same time as their regular actions. Vows could be further weaken by having both Lovers using the same Vow on the same target which doubles the chances of being found out, blocked or redirected as the Vow would fail without both Lovers doing it at the same time.

New TP proposal as secondary role:

Werewolf (Third Party):
The Werewolf is a secondary role that the Townie player is not made aware of having. He can continue to write posts, vote and submit any day or night actions he has. However every 2nd Night his Action, if he has one, is autoturned into a Kill Action. If the Werewolf Player gets targeted by a kill action, his Werewolf genes get triggered and the Werewolf role replaces his primary role, killing the attacker. The goal of the Werewolf player is then to win as a SK, if never triggered he wins with Town. The Werewolf counts as a non-Townie for Detective investigations, as well as for Mason/Mentee recruitment.

I got the WW idea for "troll roles" of towns that seem to have actions but are overall useless. Basically they still do something they are just unaware that their every 2nd action is a kill action. I also liked the idea of a 3rd Party role that if never triggered and lynched would win with Town, happily unaware of his monster genes in his body.

Also I think @uberfayt Samurai should be given a voting by the Council because a "PGO Boyguard" would increase the need for a Mafia Doctor protecting the killer/Mafia Det/Mafia Escort/etc from "return fire" roles and other killing roles like insane doc or 2nd Mafia/TP targeting the killer. Here is the role's description again, adapted BG description with Samurai changes and added Daykill protection to make it more Marytr aka BG, I apologize in advance to @uberfayt if this is not the wording he wants for his role, if so please ignore it:

Samurai (Townie)
The Samurai may pick a person he wants to protect each night. When this person is attacked at night the Samurai becomes the target instead and dies together with the attacker. If both survive the night then his target can‘t die the next day to any daykilling role. If his target died despite his protection, the Samurai commits Seppuku at the start of the day phase and dies.

@Copy Panda If you dislike the Name but not exactly the action of the Fallen Noble I can change the role name to something else or more fitting:

Robber (Mafia):
Day Action - If the Robber has killed somebody successfully in the previous night he can use the stolen vote of his victim in the day besides his own. The vote of the victim can only be given as a locked vote. Both votes have to given to the same target but not at the same time. He cannot collect more than one robbed vote.

Added a restriction that the Robber has to commit to the same lynch target with both votes as well that he cannot have more than one robbed vote. He can however after a kill simply use the vote at a later day and let other Mafias do kills instead. If he does kills while having a robbed vote in his pocket he cannot get anymore than that, the old one stays. I think Robber is a simple name, it has a direct bound to what its does and it is a criminal occupation befitting the Mafia. And with the restrictions it is not overpowered.

Tagging all Council members:

• @Farfalla
• @Hardy
• @GrySun
• @Xadyu
• @Copy Panda
• @Vandred
• @Lambu
• @digitaldude

Hope to get plenty of feedback from you guys.

@Farfalla

 

[Hardy]

Well, then that is just you disliking roles with more than one vote. Not the fault of the roles.

It is if I don't think the game needs them.

 

[James Rye]

Confused Guide (Townie): NO. Enough redirects, they only make the game stressful, so fully against the purpose of playing something.

Old Cat Lady (Townie): NO. Broken, could completely get anti-town parties to crumble. No townie role alone should be allowed to achieve that.

The Greedy Notary (3rd Party): NO. That would be the easiest way for a player to win a game, completely effort-free LOL. Plus, Jesus Christ, the work a host would have to go thru with it...

Police Officer (Townie): NO. Honestly, we don't need a Doctor upgrade...

Werewolf (Townie): NO. A town role that confuses the Detective (wat) and is basically an OP version of the PGO, which alrdy got nerfed in the past...



Could anyone link me the post that contains the rest of those?

What about the reverse-spy OCL, which only know that actions happened but not what kind of, similar to a spy?

What about the Werewolf as Third Party which got positive/neutral reviews? Town seems out, I think I will delete that scondary version anyway.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2020 ---

@Farfalla This is the Version I mean:

Old Cat Lady (Townie)
Night Action - Targets a player per night and gets told who used actions on said target this night, but not what kind of actions those were.

Adding Farf's Noes to the Confused Guide, Greedy Notary and Police Officer. Leave OCL out since old version no and Werewolf since Townie WW is too strong.

 

[Copy Panda]

Reverse spy OCL

 

[James Rye]

Reverse spy OCL

Yeah, the idea was that an Old Lady can't move around like a Spy, so she just sits there, pets her cat on her lap and watches someone's house and notice the people going in and out of it but doesn't know what they did there.

 

[Farfalla]

Troublemaker (Townie): NO. OMG another townie role to play against town? wat

Energy Drink Promoter (Townie): NO. Game breaking... imagine it in the hands of a DTV, Jesus, PGO, etc... either that or irrevelant if it targets a role that doesn't need an extra charge... Impossible to balance.

Nurse (Townie): NO. Please let's avoid coin toss as well... also, it's very situational (the day killing part).

Helpful Maid (Townie): Neutral. Nothing amazing but I don't see a big con. Heh, guess I'm not that evil.

Unhelpful Maid (Townie): Neutral. Same as the above.

I'm against all the Notary versions btw.

Brought Judge (Mafia): NO. '_' OMG why do we want to make a mafia player marked as lynchable?? That's just an assured mafia lynch, should be self-explanatory as something bad.

Mason (Townie): NO. No need to turn Masons into something convoluted.

Burden (Mafia): NO. I don't see why give benefits to the Burden...

Assassin (Mafia): NO. Again, just overcomplicating things.

Mafia Pirate (Mafia): YES. Unless I misunderstood, this is alrdy under discussion and I agree with that.

Lovers (Third Party): NO. This is moving from adjusting the role to making them too OP, imo. No other TP convers all those benefits.

Samurai (Townie): NO. This is like... PGO shagged BP and gave birth to their super child that now makes them look stupid.

Robber (Mafia): NO. As if lynches aren't complicated alrdy with confused townies in the initial days... Imagine reaching the end and losing to a mafia that gathers votes... This a reason why Town vs Mafia has a 3:1 ratio.

 

[GrySun]

Troublemaker (Townie): NO. OMG another townie role to play against town? wat

Cmon that role seems so cool ‘-‘ Like a daykill where you make a poll and have everyone decide. Not against town at all whatsoever, depending on when it‘s used.

 

[Farfalla]

You act like you're not one of the people that often repeat the meme "townies being townies"

 

[James Rye]

Troublemaker (Townie): NO. OMG another townie role to play against town? wat

Energy Drink Promoter (Townie): NO. Game breaking... imagine it in the hands of a DTV, Jesus, PGO, etc... either that or irrevelant if it targets a role that doesn't need an extra charge... Impossible to balance.

Nurse (Townie): NO. Please let's avoid coin toss as well... also, it's very situational (the day killing part).

Helpful Maid (Townie): Neutral. Nothing amazing but I don't see a big con. Heh, guess I'm not that evil.

Unhelpful Maid (Townie): Neutral. Same as the above.

I'm against all the Notary versions btw.

Brought Judge (Mafia): NO. '_' OMG why do we want to make a mafia player marked as lynchable?? That's just an assured mafia lynch, should be self-explanatory as something bad.

Mason (Townie): NO. No need to turn Masons into something convoluted.

Burden (Mafia): NO. I don't see why give benefits to the Burden...

Assassin (Mafia): NO. Again, just overcomplicating things.

Mafia Pirate (Mafia): YES. Unless I misunderstood, this is alrdy under discussion and I agree with that.

Lovers (Third Party): NO. This is moving from adjusting the role to making them too OP, imo. No other TP convers all those benefits.

Samurai (Townie): NO. This is like... PGO shagged BP and gave birth to their super child that now makes them look stupid.

Robber (Mafia): NO. As if lynches aren't complicated alrdy with confused townies in the initial days... Imagine reaching the end and losing to a mafia that gathers votes... This a reason why Town vs Mafia has a 3:1 ratio.

But the TM only adds a 2nd lynch vote for next day phase during the night so it could be prevented with a kill or block... also it is not really a town against town role it just offers a 2nd for sure lynch option, something people always seem to strife for each match, to get two people lynched instead of one per day but failing the DL requirements. The TM would once per game make that easier.

Wow, 2 neutrals, I am hap!

The Robber can only carry a single extra vote, not several, and if used the vote will have the name of the deceased on it so player will know that the robber used his stolen vote. Plus with the restriction the vote stealing can be prevented by block or protection or BP Townie being targeted by Robber. Plus with the restriction of having to use the stolen vote on the same guy the robber voted for he is basically putting a mark on himself and the others in the group who voted for the lynch so he has to be careful when to use it if he has no good coverstory/someone else in the voting group to be accusated as Robber.

Adding the noes and neutral. The MP yes won't added, sadly, because it ain't a new rule, it was just a role change suggestion since it seemed we have talked about the MP a lot but never actually changed it over the years despite lots of talks.

 

[Copy Panda]

I haven't read all the updates yet but other than already discussed Pirate the only role I can approve for testing is Robber. We might need some new dp protection with martyr gone but Ill reread that tomorrow or so

 

[Farfalla]

Nonono that's why I didn't want to vote: endless debate. I'm out @_@

 

[James Rye]

Also does this mean you even dislike the Oppurtunistic Notary, @Farfalla ? :c

The Oppurtunistic Notary (3rd Party)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Townie adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 5 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Mafia/TP reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -5. The Notary wins the game with the side that his vote power binds to - positive Mafia/TP, negative Town.

It could be changed to a minimum of -3 or +3 votes in total.
@GrySun
Do you think this kind of vote gathering TP role could work better for the game if it is a "switchero role" which wins with whichever side seems to be winning the "lynch game"?
Also this way the Serial Killer could technically win the game by himself and the ON plus two towns in the game if both TP roles manage to survive till the end. And Mentor&Mentee plus NO vs three Towns if NO has negative votes.

 

[Copy Panda]

James this role reads like a math problem

 

[James Rye]

James this role reads like a math problem

But not like a complicated math problem but a simple one. Like if Hosts/ON update it after each day they can easily check how much vote power a Notary got for the next day if he doesn't die during the night. Day 1- townie dies = 2 votes counted per ON vote next day. Day 1 Mafia/TP dies = 0 Votes counted per ON vote next day and so on.

 

[Copy Panda]

But not like a complicated math problem

I like your energy James Ill give you that much

 

[GrySun]

Also does this mean you even dislike the Oppurtunistic Notary, @Farfalla ? :c

The Oppurtunistic Notary (3rd Party)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Townie adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 5 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Mafia/TP reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -5. The Notary wins the game with the side that his vote power binds to - positive Mafia/TP, negative Town.

It could be changed to a minimum of -3 or +3 votes in total.
@GrySun
Do you think this kind of vote gathering TP role could work better for the game if it is a "switchero role" which wins with whichever side seems to be winning the "lynch game"?
Also this way the Serial Killer could technically win the game by himself and the ON plus two towns in the game if both TP roles manage to survive till the end. And Mentor&Mentee plus NO vs three Towns if NO has negative votes.

I think I just aren‘t a big fan of this Notary concept James. This one is the best yet though, with a certain goal(trying to cause a one-sides stomp of a team). However it‘d suck for a town/mafia doing well to just lose. Santa is also guilty of that, but he‘s at least detectable via the presents.

People will make a James rule at this point preventing more than X number of role suggestions per month.