Fall NFL Thread

[Jammin]

Yeah, they see Torrey Smith on one side and him on the other, with Jacoby Jones in the slot I guess. Why do you say that about former Steeler's receivers?

It's not only that though. Sometimes scramblers screw their line over by not staying on their spot long enough. They flee because they can and not because they have to. Big Ben isn't as guilty of that as others are, but there's no denying that line just isn't very good. Not even at run blocking as much anymore.

As for the o-line is about both talent and teamwork. Last year injuries riddled the line we got through the draft which preventing any form of cohesion from every forming.

Pouncy is good center but he was injured much of the time. Colon was forced to play tackle when he's really a much better guard. Gilbert was hurt a lot. Mike Adams was rookie and clearly not NFL ready. They brought in a new offensive line coach so hopefully that will help the overall cohesion of the unit. Basically I think they need to develop the players they have more than they do get new ones. Though no question it was a problem last year, i think that was part coaching part bad luck.

The receiver thing is more about value than anything else. Look at Burress and Holmes. Their is talent there but not as much as teams tend to pay for. If a team is going to pay big money, they should get big talent and the steelers WR tend to play their best football as a steeler and then go downhill after they leave.

 

[Kaiten]

Everyone knew Wallace was gone when they couldn't work out a long term contract after last season. I hear Miami is the front runner. The Steelers have talent at WR, and no cap room. Wallace is not that good a receiver. Retaining him for big money would not make a lot of sense. Good riddance to Harrison. I always respected his play on the field, but he talk to damn much during the week. His schtick got old.

Free agency should be pretty boring for the next couple of years. The cap probably won't be raised much until the new TV deal is put in place, for the 2014 season. At that point, revenue will go up 60%, and free agency could get ridiculous.

 

[FrostyMouse]

The Ravens trade Boldin to the 49ers for a single 6th round pick.

 

[xi0]

I'd imagine they got the best trade possible. What can you expect back for a 32 year old, not exceptionally big, not fast, and not a number 1 receiver?

 

[FrostyMouse]

Probably more than a 6th round pick, and aside from Tom Brady and a few punters and/or kickers, the 6th round hasn't produced anything noteworthy. I'd like maybe a 5th plus cash or something. A single 6th is basically just giving him away.

Boldin doesn't really catch TDs, but he makes big catches and that's what counts. If the 49ers win the SB next season and Boldin makes some big catches, we will revisit this subject.

 

[xi0]

Probably more than a 6th round pick, and aside from Tom Brady and a few punters and/or kickers, the 6th round hasn't produced anything noteworthy. I'd like maybe a 5th plus cash or something. A single 6th is basically just giving him away.

Boldin doesn't really catch TDs, but he makes big catches and that's what counts. If the 49ers win the SB next season and Boldin makes some big catches, we will revisit this subject.

And cash? That's something you see in baseball, not in football. You're undervaluing draft picks. That sixth round pick can be used to trade up for picks, trade for a player. Boldin isn't going to command anything other than that. He'll be 33 next season, he's not a Pro Bowl level player either.

Never forget that trading a player away is better than him going for free. We were dumping his salary regardless of whether we could sign him back or not. My guess is that was not really in the cards in the first place. And the trade only makes that more likely.

 

[FrostyMouse]

And cash? That's something you see in baseball, not in football. You're undervaluing draft picks. That sixth round pick can be used to trade up for picks, trade for a player. Boldin isn't going to command anything other than that. He'll be 33 next season, he's not a Pro Bowl level player either.

Never forget that trading a player away is better than him going for free. We were dumping his salary regardless of whether we could sign him back or not. My guess is that was not really in the cards in the first place. And the trade only makes that more likely.

Yeah, I know you don't really see it in football, but it can happen.

In terms of the trade, however, we were told that Boldin was unwilling to take a $2M pay cut, so he was always going to leave.

 

[BASED Shinigami]

I'd imagine they got the best trade possible. What can you expect back for a 32 year old, not exceptionally big, not fast, and not a number 1 receiver?

He's big enough and he's a lot stronger than most receivers from what I've seen over the years. He can still produce at a high level.

 

[Kaiten]

Probably more than a 6th round pick, and aside from Tom Brady and a few punters and/or kickers, the 6th round hasn't produced anything noteworthy. I'd like maybe a 5th plus cash or something. A single 6th is basically just giving him away.

Boldin doesn't really catch TDs, but he makes big catches and that's what counts. If the 49ers win the SB next season and Boldin makes some big catches, we will revisit this subject.

You're overvaluing Boldin. Anything higher would have been wasted on him. He's a good, solid, possession receiver, and nothing more. If a team was willing to trade more than a 6th round pick, they could have had a better veteran wide receiver. Draft picks are a commodity, teams don't trade them lightly. San Fransisco already has plentiful weapons - Gore, Davis, and Crabtree. Boldin will not be asked to win them a Super Bowl. His only job will be to move the chains. I will be shocked if catches more than 35 passes this season. If catches more than 40, I guarantee someone better was injured. Besides, by yesterday , it was obvious he was not going to restructure his contract. Every team knew he'd be released. It was a buyers market. A 6th round pick was essentially compensation for not having to compete on the open market. And 6th round picks are not worthless. Good teams use them to fill out there depths charts. Making good decisions late in the draft is how you build special teams, and find insurance, in case of injuries. It's rare to find players like Alfred Morris, but sometimes you do find gems. A 5th round pick does not have any more value than a 6th. Still probably just a back up, or specialist.

 

[FrostyMouse]

You're overvaluing Boldin. Anything higher would have been wasted on him. He's a good, solid, possession receiver, and nothing more. If a team was willing to trade more than a 6th round pick, they could have had a better veteran wide receiver. Draft picks are a commodity, teams don't trade them lightly. San Fransisco already has plentiful weapons - Gore, Davis, and Crabtree. Boldin will not be asked to win them a Super Bowl. His only job will be to move the chains. I will be shocked if catches more than 35 passes this season. If catches more than 40, I guarantee someone better was injured. Besides, by yesterday , it was obvious he was not going to restructure his contract. Every team knew he'd be released. It was a buyers market. A 6th round pick was essentially compensation for not having to compete on the open market. And 6th round picks are not worthless. Good teams use them to fill out there depths charts. Making good decisions late in the draft is how you build special teams, and find insurance, in case of injuries. It's rare to find players like Alfred Morris, but sometimes you do find gems. A 5th round pick does not have any more value than a 6th. Still probably just a back up, or specialist.

I disagree in large part, but we're never going to agree here.

Boldin is better than Crabtree.

I think Boldin was worth a 5th.

 

[xi0]

He's big enough and he's a lot stronger than most receivers from what I've seen over the years. He can still produce at a high level.

I didn't mean to imply he was undersized at all. Of course he's big enough, and he's one of the strongest WR in traffic, don't get me wrong. But big receivers are coveted these days, and he isn't incredibly tall or anything. Not to mention that he just isn't fast and he never really was.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on my team, but he's a cap casualty for a reason. There's no doubt we still wanted him, but not at that number.

I disagree in large part, but we're never going to agree here.

Boldin is better than Crabtree.

I think Boldin was worth a 5th.

Boldin is a proven veteran. Crabtree is only 25 years old. He had a breakout season last year. Conventional thought is that it takes 3 years for a receiver to realize his full potential. His first season was 2009, but he was a holdout and 2012 was his third full season. I would take Crabtree over him, but that has a lot to do with age and upside. There's a question of how much tread is left on Boldin's tires, but not with someone who's 8 years his junior and is more athletic as well.

It'll be interesting to see how we address replacing him though. There's been a thought to Tandon Doss filling out that possession role when Boldin has been underwhelming in his time here. Torrey Smith isn't a number 1 receiver just yet, and I don't know if I trust Jacoby Jones as a number 2 receiver either. We have some depth at the position with Laquan Williams and Tommy Streeter, but I'm not sure if either of them will be impact players. David Reed is a special teamer before anything else, but he has the speed to be a deep threat at times. There's been people talking about us going after Danario Alexander, but that guy has had so many injuries, it might not be a good choice.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

So Kruger signed with the Browns and Ellerbe apparently has signed with the Dolphins. Interesting to say the least. I wonder if it makes us more likely to bring Reed back, or maybe even Cary Williams even though we already have a ton of depth at CB.

 

[Kaiten]

It's kind of funny how big a deal the press is making that the Ravens lost two linebackers, as if this has never happened before. The pundits also seem to forget that after leaving Baltimore, none of them really have been great.

Miami was busy today. I wonder if they trade everyone to Toronto after the season

 

[xi0]

It's kind of funny how big a deal the press is making that the Ravens lost two linebackers, as if this has never happened before. The pundits also seem to forget that after leaving Baltimore, none of them really have been great.

I think a bigger deal is made of it because Lewis retired, but you're absolutely correct in your assessment. Jamie Sharper, Edgerton Hartwell, Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott...not that they were all duds, but did they really make a name for themselves on their own without getting to play next to a legend? Not really.

I think both Kruger and Ellerbe are good players, but they didn't do any favors to themselves in breaking the trend by going to two moribund franchises. So I wouldn't bet on it.

Miami was busy today. I wonder if they trade everyone to Toronto after the season

There seems to be a track record with Miami pro teams and spending a lot in free agency...only one of the three has worked out though

 

[FrostyMouse]

Yeah, as good as Kruger was last season, you're not really doing yourself any favors by going to Cleveland. You're going to look worse playing for the Browns than you would normally, so we may never know how good Kruger could've been.

 

[xi0]

Well, let's not write his obituary just yet or anything. I actually like Cleveland's defense and they seem to be adding good players here and there.

That being said, Kruger isn't an elite player or anything and I don't think he can be until he gets better in run defense. He's pretty one-dimensional. But that one dimension is enough to earn you a pretty penny I suppose.

 

[Kaiten]

I wonder how big a difference it made playing across from Suggs? Sizzle must have drawn a few double teams. He may be a good player, but signing him to a big deal is more of a risk than people are making it out to be. I also happen to like what Cleveland is doing. He should have a good line in front of this year.

I think a bigger deal is made of it because Lewis retired, but you're absolutely correct in your assessment. Jamie Sharper, Edgerton Hartwell, Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott...not that they were all duds, but did they really make a name for themselves on their own without getting to play next to a legend? Not really.

This has happened before. A Ravens linebacker puts up good numbers playing next to Ray Lewis, or across from Suggs. They sign a big contract, generate a lot of hype, but never quite live up to the money. Some have a few nice years, but are getting payed pro-bowl money for role player performance. Ozzie Newsome has a contingency plan. He's reloaded a couple of times since the first Super Bowl in 2000. ESPN is making more of it than there really is.

I think both Kruger and Ellerbe are good players, but they didn't do any favors to themselves in breaking the trend by going to two moribund franchises. So I wouldn't bet on it.

With Ellerbe, the thinking seemed to be that he would replace Ray Lewis. Five years for $35 million is a pretty steep price for an MLB, I imagine the Ravens felt it was better to explore other options. I don't think anyone ever believed the Ravens planned on resigning Kurger. It was obvious he'd be one of the first free agents signed, for big money. Newsome did the right thing. He got the QB resigned before the start of free agency, without franchising him. They drafted Courtney Upshaw last year, MLB is not a hard position to fill.

There seems to be a track record with Miami pro teams and spending a lot in free agency...only one of the three has worked out though

At least the Dolphins aren't moving into a massive, publicly funded, bad acid trip of a new stadium this year too. Marlins Park is a sight to behold.

 

[FrostyMouse]

It's actually 5 years/40m for Kruger.

The Eagles do the expected thing and release Nnamdi.

 

[xi0]

They like Upshaw, but his size might get in the way of him being the type of pass rusher Kruger is. He's more of an edge setter, covering routes in the flat and forcing runners back inside. Similar to what Jarrett Johnson did. Suggs can do both, that's what makes him an elite player. But who knows. They still have Jameel McClain, if he's cleared to play...he might even be released, but I think if he's healthy, it's less likely than what it was before Ellerbe left. They also have Albert McClellan, a player they like. But other than that, it's mostly practice squad players or undrafted players. Not that we've never been able to make use of them or anything though.

Overreaction goes both ways, otherwise Miami would win the Super Bowl next season...and we all know that isn't happening.

Interesting that we signed Chris Canty. I'm curious as to what position he'll play in a 3-4, assuming we stick with that base defense. I guess with his size they could put him in at NT, even though he isn't your stereotypical nose tackle. It might be more likely that he'll play a 3-4 DE spot, given his athleticism. Either way, it looks like he could be pretty versatile and move around like Ngata does.

---------- Post added at 02:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------

It's actually 5 years/40m for Kruger.

The Eagles do the expected thing and release Nnamdi.

He was talking about Ellerbe I believe.

Has anyone fallen off the face of the Earth more than Nnamdi? Wow.

 

[FrostyMouse]

He was talking about Ellerbe I believe.

Has anyone fallen off the face of the Earth more than Nnamdi? Wow.

Oh, my mistake, but in my defense, it was 2:29 am. :P

Um, no, no one has. The Bills released the Ryan Fitzpatrick, however.

 

[xi0]

Well, aside from the Bills giving him that dumb contract, it wasn't like he was considered the best or second best at his position ever