Discussion NNT versus thread

[Ger]

How Mel has a higher magic stat than King (putting OG Magic aside)? I agree with the physical stats.

Granted he bypassed Demon kings magic with his darkness which zeldris could not believed he could do.

 

[Master of the Sun]

TOD VS TC
TOD VS 4 AA
Sariel VS Tarmiel
Cusack & Chandler VS Sariel & Tarmiel
Ban VS Merlin
Ban VS King
Ban (part 1) VS Izraf
King (part 1) VS Izraf
Diane (part 1) VS Izraf
Gowther (part 1) VS Izraf

 

[Estarossa173]

TOD VS TC
TOD VS 4 AA
Sariel VS Tarmiel
Cusack & Chandler VS Sariel & Tarmiel
Ban VS Merlin
Ban VS King
Ban (part 1) VS Izraf
King (part 1) VS Izraf
Diane (part 1) VS Izraf
Gowther (part 1) VS Izraf

TOD
Hard to say. From the hype he’s getting, he could be able to defeat the archangels. But we’ll have to see feats from him.
Hard to say. But feats-wise, I’d say cusack and chandler wins.
Merlin
I’d say King
Ban could pull out a win.
Leaning a bit towards Izraf.
Izraf.
Izraf. That is unless gowther mindfucks him.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Granted he bypassed Demon kings magic with his darkness which zeldris could not believed he could do.

And what about this makes Mel above King when it comes to magic? Just because he bypassed the DK's magic doesn't mean he is above him in that area, specially when the portrayal in the series states otherwise. Mel has always been a pure physical fighter, his magical state has been very low compared to his strength (not taking into account OG magic). On the other side, King has always been a magical power house since the first chapter he was introduced (he has 0 strength and his spirit is not that high).

King's Chastiefol allows him to do multiple kinds of things. Can launch attacks that have an extreme destructive capacity (Spirit Spear Chastiefol, Sunflower); can summon a giant guardian that can be used as a means of both defence and offence (Guardian), can petrify people even if they're immortals (Fossilization), can heal (Pollen Garden) and there's more. Not to mention that King's innate magic Disaster allows the tiniest scratch to become a mortal injury.

Mel's magical feats, as much as I like him, pale in comparison to King's versatility, unless you're taking into account his OG magic (which clearly isn't taken into account given the context of this versus). He only has FC and darkness attacks (which include the attack with the dark clothing he did to Zeldris).

Plus, if you look at it closely Mel's feat is inconsistent asf. His darkness was able to overpower the DK's magic but still Estarossa (60.000) was able to resist that attack better than Zeldris. Not only that, but we don't even know if that attack Mel used was magic or not (it has been showed that PoD can be used when you have zero magic as showed when the commandments flew without having any magic due to the seal). In my eyes, he used his clothing of darkness to crush both of them.

King's feats on the other side are pretty consistent. His last feat shows without any kind of doubt that he was able to fodderize someone who was 200.000+ and most likely had most of his general stat being magic (after all, he didn't show any kind of physical feat, only magic attacks).

Even if you want to go with numbers, it doesn't make any sense. King has to have a magical stat between 200.000-250.000 (which is pretty much all of his overall number). If Mel had more magic than him as you state:

Strength: 120.000+ (probably way more, just lowballing)
Magic: 200.000-250.000+
Spirit: Dunno, let's say between 5000 and 10.000

You don't need to be a genious to see that he would be almost 400.000, which doesn't make any sense. As I said, just because he managed to overpower a nerfed version of The Ruler with an attack that we don't even know if it was magic to begin with doesn't put him above King, specially given the inconsistency of the feat and the portrayal of both characters during the series.

 

[sobreno]

Probably AM Mel with high to extreme difficulty, but it could go either way. On one hand, Full Counter + superior durability and speed gives Mel the edge but it won't be that easy since on the other hand, King's versatility, raw power and the fact that he's able to summon multiple forms of Chastiefol at once makes him a very hard opponent to deal with even if Mel has Full Counter and overall superior stats.



Given the way Ludo has performed until now, I don't think he has what it takes to defeat 4C Mael (hopefully he will do some impressive shit when he goes into his OG Body again, since he's still on a human vessel). Plus, we know that the number of wings represent the power and rank of a Goddess, and going by that Mael has six (he had four after the first chapter but I think that was already confirmed to be a drawing mistake from Nakaba's part) and Ludo only four, so yeah, as of now I'm leading with Mael.

The Sinner vs The Four AA

Rules: The time of the day is extremely near noon (like 5 or 10 minutes from it). If we assume that the Sinner has all of Chandler and Cusack's abilities, he can't use True Night.

Lmao, you are kidding? Full Counter will literally fuck him over, his durability is still trash and he would survive from a hit on his own attack.

Full Counter is a worse match up against someone like King who is arsenal is 100% magic.

He is doomed against Mel or Chandler.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Lmao, you are kidding? Full Counter will literally fuck him over, his durability is still trash and he would survive from a hit on his own attack.

Full Counter is a worse match up against someone like King who is arsenal is 100% magic.

He is doomed against Mel or Chandler.

No, I'm not. Good luck in trying to Full Counter Increase (hundreds of swords that come to him in every direction), Sunflower, Spirit Spear and other shit that King can launch at him at the same time and in different directions and angles. Not to mention that he can protect himself with Guardian. Keep in mind that the tiniest scratch Mel gets is gonna be a great injury thanks to Disaster. If King could only summon one form of Chastiefol at one time, FC will clearly fuck him up bad, but now that he can summon multiple forms at once I don't see how FC will fuck him up that bad (granted, I'm not saying that it isn't going to be a problem for him, lol). This is why I'm saying that this matchup won't be that easy to decide in my opinion. On one hand, Mel has the advantage on most of the areas, but King's magic versatility and Disaster hax can give him the possibility of turning the tables IMO.

 

[Ger]

And what about this makes Mel above King when it comes to magic? Just because he bypassed the DK's magic doesn't mean he is above him in that area, specially when the portrayal in the series states otherwise. Mel has always been a pure physical fighter, his magical state has been very low compared to his strength (not taking into account OG magic). On the other side, King has always been a magical power house since the first chapter he was introduced (he has 0 strength and his spirit is not that high).

bypassing DKs magic with his darkness which is magical attack when it's being used as offensive is a big feat for his magic. Do you have any feats in that caliber? no it doesn't matter because you realize that mael as you headcanon has been physical fighting when meliodas own magic iss literally a destroyer magic which he won't use in a fight. him having his magical stats lower than his physical stats doesn't change my argument, if by all means that just proves meliodas own physical strength is higher than his magic but yet his magic is so strong to bypass DKs magic that nullifies magic attacks and that proves even more that meliodas mafgic power wise is far superior than King.

not only that you have given me nothing that supports king would damage meliodas at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2018 ---

his magic is useless when it cannot hurt meliodas having superior durability than his Attack potency.

him bypassing DKs magic results to having more magical power feats than king's own, you just showed him being a physical fighter is because he doesn't want to use magic which is own in order to fight. Which makes sense in his character. So bypassing DKs magic with another magical attack would need an extreme ridiculous amount of magic to bypass the nullifcation itself which proves another reason why he has higher magic power than anyone else in the series except gods.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2018 ---

can you prove that meliodas own feat vs The Ruler was inconsistent? the fact that meliodas after awakening's own feat is only that until he absorbed the commandments is literally not inconsistent.

 

[sobreno]

No, I'm not. Good luck in trying to Full Counter Increase (hundreds of swords that come to him in every direction), Sunflower, Spirit Spear and other shit that King can launch at him at the same time and in different directions and angles. Not to mention that he can protect himself with Guardian. Keep in mind that the tiniest scratch Mel gets is gonna be a great injury thanks to Disaster. If King could only summon one form of Chastiefol at one time, FC will clearly fuck him up bad, but now that he can summon multiple forms at once I don't see how FC will fuck him up that bad (granted, I'm not saying that it isn't going to be a problem for him, lol). This is why I'm saying that this matchup won't be that easy to decide in my opinion. On one hand, Mel has the advantage on most of the areas, but King's magic versatility and Disaster hax can give him the possibility of turning the tables IMO.

He can full counter them thanks to his Lostvayne who sole purpose is to create clones for more versatile use of FC in any direction possible lol.

You realize that even without that, he can literally tank it for revenge counter to solo him in one powerful move one shot?
Or use his gravity like Darkness to crush him down or literally destroy him with his Darkness power who AOE shit on anything in his arsenal?

Like I said, Meliodas's arsenal is too much and perfectly counter his arsenal.
Disaster is useless due to FC too and double edge since he will taste his own attack more than 2 times their Original power, meaning more terrible for him if it get rebounded lol, if he himself have a scratch on him.

Good luck for that lol, no way his own defense will protect him from his own offense more than times 2 amplified than his Original force.
More when several clones will FC at the same attack at the same time, RIP lol.
The FC will be more Ridiculous than it already is.

Awakened AM Mel with his Lostvayne, I don't see King doing shit to him in any scenario with FC that fuck him over, literally the best hax for him lol.
Without it, it doesn't matter either with Revenge Counter and Counter Vanish.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Meliodas’ cooking vs purgatory demon king

 

[sobreno]

DK high difficulty.

He is gigantic so it should save him from the bad taste somehow.

 

[Bittersweettea]

Meliodas’ cooking vs purgatory demon king

Meliodas' cooking. That sh*t is OP. Instant kill for all enemies.

 

[Seven777]

bypassing DKs magic with his darkness which is magical attack when it's being used as offensive is a big feat for his magic. Do you have any feats in that caliber? no it doesn't matter because you realize that mael as you headcanon has been physical fighting when meliodas own magic iss literally a destroyer magic which he won't use in a fight. him having his magical stats lower than his physical stats doesn't change my argument, if by all means that just proves meliodas own physical strength is higher than his magic but yet his magic is so strong to bypass DKs magic that nullifies magic attacks and that proves even more that meliodas mafgic power wise is far superior than King.

not only that you have given me nothing that supports king would damage meliodas at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2018 ---

his magic is useless when it cannot hurt meliodas having superior durability than his Attack potency.

him bypassing DKs magic results to having more magical power feats than king's own, you just showed him being a physical fighter is because he doesn't want to use magic which is own in order to fight. Which makes sense in his character. So bypassing DKs magic with another magical attack would need an extreme ridiculous amount of magic to bypass the nullifcation itself which proves another reason why he has higher magic power than anyone else in the series except gods.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2018 ---

can you prove that meliodas own feat vs The Ruler was inconsistent? the fact that meliodas after awakening's own feat is only that until he absorbed the commandments is literally not inconsistent.

Not that its the same thing, but King has bypassed the DK's magic too. He completely overwhelmed the silence commandment

 

[Ger]

Not that its the same thing, but King has bypassed the DK's magic too. He completely overwhelmed the silence commandment

"has bypassed DKs magic too"
ok can you prove it? even though the only feat he had was defeating mael but ok.

 

[sobreno]

Not that its the same thing, but King has bypassed the DK's magic too. He completely overwhelmed the silence commandment

To be fair, commandments aren't magic.

And it seems that they were different from their Original curse.
Like Love's curse makes you powerless and when used by Mael, it makes you lethargic and sleep to death.

 

[Ger]

To be fair, commandments aren't magic.

it was implied to be curses when grayroad said to merlin commandments aren't mere magic but they are curses created by DK.

 

[sobreno]

it was implied to be curses when grayroad said to merlin commandments aren't mere magic but they are curses created by DK.

Yes, but mere " created " curse shouldn't compare to your own innate magic power that you have from the start of your existence and lend it to someone else. ( nerfed version ofc )

 

[Seven777]

"has bypassed DKs magic too"
ok can you prove it? even though the only feat he had was defeating mael but ok.

Sure

Spoiler

His magic was sealed, but King overpowered it with his new strength.

To be fair, commandments aren't magic.

And it seems that they were different from their Original curse.
Like Love's curse makes you powerless and when used by Mael, it makes you lethargic and sleep to death.

The DK's power then, and i did say they werent the same thing

 

[Ger]

Sure

Spoiler

His magic was sealed, but King overpowered it with his new strength

Idk if you're aware that the characteristics of DKs magic also nullifies magic attacks and showing last chapter zeldris nullified the spell itself which both are not different in their mechanics.

What sobreno said already debunks your point commandment=/= DKs own nerfed magic that completely nullifies attacks.

So no you made a false equivalency to say Truth commandment is the same as DKs magic which is entirely wrong.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 6, 2018 ---

In fact the definition of "seal" and "nullify" are far different in verbs and nouns.

 

[Seven777]

Idk if you're aware that the characteristics of DKs magic also nullifies magic attacks and showing last chapter zeldris nullified the spell itself which both are not different in their mechanics.

What sobreno said already debunks your point commandment=/= DKs own nerfed magic that completely nullifies attacks.

So no you made a false equivalency to say Truth commandment is the same as DKs magic which is entirely wrong.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 6, 2018 ---

In fact the definition of "seal" and "nullify" are far different in verbs and nouns.

First off i was referring to the silence commandment, not truth, so you're wrong there.
Secondly, i prefaced my comment by saying "i know its not the same thing", so there is no "false equivalency", wrong again.
Thirdly, silence comprises %5 of the DK's power, how much does Zeldris' borrowed magic comprise? %10? %15? More? You dont know.
And finally, the fact that the DK's power has multiple aspects should make each singular aspect weaker, not stronger, when compared to a commandment which has all its power focused on one specific function.

Either way, whether the DK's magic is stronger or weaker than silence, Mel has always been a physical fighter, King has always been a magical one, i highly doubt Mel has surpassed King in magic. Feats are all well and good, but portrayal matters too, and you're blowing Mel overcoming the DK's magic out of proportion. Merlin was apparently still a threat despite the DK's magic, and Ludo's ark blade was also able to damage Zeldris too last chapter, Mel pinning him to the floor with darkness doesnt make his magic stat the best among mortals.

 

[Kay3795]

I kept thinking, Meliodas bypassing Zeldris' DK was a ludicrous feat...hence his confession "too damn strong" is validated... It's like Zeldris himself doesn't understand how he could be that strong.

We know Zeldris' DK can only work against magic, so that basically gives away the nature of Meliodas' dark gravity-like restraint. Now if 200k couldn't touch Zeldris' DK (we know Ludo's STR was trash, spirit doesn't take much points, so his magic stat with Flash probably takes up more than 90% of his PL) how much more powerful must Meliodas be in magic?

We now have full confirmation that Meliodas magic power itself was sealed all this while. When unleashed, that stuff challenges even convention reason (hence "can't exist in the human world any longer") & for its feat of power, it can destroy the Demon King's flesh.

It never made sense to me that the next Demon King would have terrible magic. He's not Kenpachi the brute, Ichigo the newbie, or those typical shonen MC with limited movesets, he is a very very very very old & qualified Demon Prince who was unequivocally on his way to be crowned the new Demon God. He is a Madara type, a Juha Bach type more than anything. This is partially why I argue Meliodas is a BattleMage (all this while we've being deceived into thinking he's all physicality but something felt off about it to me). The Demon King himself (in spite of his build & appearance) isn't all about physicality (people assumed he was & the Supreme Deity would be all magic likewise but Nakaba isn't taking that route) as he by far has the best magic feat in NNT till date (of course bar Meliodas's destroyer magic which according to the DK's own testimony could fight his own Inversion). DK's magic is capable of creating a variety of magic (10C & their effects, other dark curses). His greatest feat bar his innate magic Inversion is probably creation magic--creating a being like Chandler to have very high magic power & also The Origin Demon (TOD) which would have substantially higher magic stat than a lone Chandler.