Discussion NNT versus thread

[Ger]

If Elizabeth could harm DK by being caught off guard that tells you either he doesnt have it yet because zeldris is not his own body yet or it simply nakaba taking it off for plot convenience. But either these things are factors to whether he has it or not. When DK possessed meliodas he didnt even have his original magic, that tells that he needs to completely assimilate someones body in order to gain it

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2019 ---

God is hard to defend and hard to argue against because he took the demon king's bombs which were stronger than any offense there was at the time, but didn't work with helios fair or the "greeting" ark beam

One would try to argue that maybe strong enough holy light magic could work, but it also nulled gold shining

That is based off headcanon by saying it would be strong enough when no one really has magic power to harm zeldris, aside from meliodas

 

[Estarossa173]

You'll say anything to not give Elizabeth credit right?

If Zeldris can use magic immunity, why can't the Demon King in the very same body?

It doesn't matter if he's nerfed, he gave the same ability to Zeldris and is stronger than his son inside said vessel yet can't use it?

You're making no sense.

Yeah. That whole “nerfed” shit is not enough to justify the DK not giving himself magic immunity.

 

[Shadowlord123]

I also think that there are more reasons to believe that DK Zel has the magic immunity rather than not. The reason why I'm saying that he's probably so weakened that he can't use it right now is because it is what actually makes more sense, IMO. Let me explain, if Elizabeth's magic on a human body was since the start so powerful that can bypass the DK's magic (something that not even Ludo or Mael's Greatest Sun could do), then:

- Why she couldn't do anything when Meliodas started to revert into his original self? It was highly implied that had Merlin deactivated the Perfect Cube and not have been for Escanor, AM Mel would have killed all of them. Mind you, AM Mel was only 142K at that time.

- Why Estarossa could broke free of her Ark casually using darkness?

- Why she had to be saved from 3C Estarossa? You would think that with that level of magic, she at the very least would have been able to escape for herself, but it wasn't the case at all.

- Why she went pale with only sensing 4C Mael's mere presence?

- Why didn't she try anything against DK Mel and her only contribution during the fight was her cheering Mel pretty much? Why her Ark didn't do anything to a half-dead DK Mel, who broke it instantly?

Human Elizabeth being powerful enough to actually mock DK Zel, bypass his magic immunity and hurt him does make even less sense than saying that DK Zel is weakened and somehow can't use his magic immunity.

I don't doubt Eli is powerful, I always thought she was and I've defended her way before the last chapters came, but I think we should wait for more feats before getting too carried away with this feat of her seemingly bypassing the DK's magic.

 

[OtakuFreak]

I also think that there are more reasons to believe that DK Zel has the magic immunity rather than not. The reason why I'm saying that he's probably so weakened that he can't use it right now is because it is what actually makes more sense, IMO. Let me explain, if Elizabeth's magic on a human body was since the start so powerful that can bypass the DK's magic (something that not even Ludo or Mael's Greatest Sun could do), then:

I mean... there's no explanation as to why the Demon King can't use his magic immunity in Zeldris body when his son can use it without being possessed.

Plus, the Demon King commented that Elizabeth's magic attack wasn't capable of killing the ''Demon King'' which reflects how Zeldris has commented on multiple occasions that magical attacks will do nothing to him.

Why have such arrogance against Elizabeth's attack unless he had his immunity active? I'm sure he underestimated her, but at the same time he should be aware that she isn't entirely weak.

- Why she couldn't do anything when Meliodas started to revert into his original self? It was highly implied that had Merlin deactivated the Perfect Cube and not have been for Escanor, AM Mel would have killed all of them. Mind you, AM Mel was only 142K at that time.

Plot? Would you rather see Escanor fight Meliodas and turn into ''The One'' to finish him or have Elizabeth solo him without much difficulty? Even as a Elizabeth fan, I'd rather see a tough battle than a one-sided domination.

Plus, you could argue that Elizabeth didn't want to hurt Meliodas and showed at a later moment that she was perfectly comfortable in being inside a perfect cube with him, when he might've woken up when she was holding him.

The lovers are very cautious about hurting each other, Meliodas forced Elizabeth into some situations but never directly hurt her to do so and allowed Elizabeth to slap him. Elizabeth practically begged Merlin to let her heal him since she was worried about his health - So I'd say one reason why Elizabeth didn't jump in the cube with Meliodas was because she didn't want to hurt him?

- Why Estarossa could broke free of her Ark casually using darkness?

Multiple reasons in my opinion:

-Estarossa is actually Mael, a Goddess who has a natural resistance against the light element, thus helping him break out of the ark easier along with the force of his darkness.

-Elizabeth was more concerned about protecting Derieri, since she didn't want Estarossa to collect her commandment for Meliodas. I think this is supported by how Elizabeth simply moved him away and crashed him into a mountain rather than toss him around (like with the DK) or explode the ark for larger damage. She simply tossed him away and didn't care for what happened? If she wanted really hurt him, why not explode the ark? Why not do an ark blast or a more offensive move by nature?

-Plot? Or because she had a subtle hint about who Estarossa is (she noted how ''she knew him'' before this moment) and thus didn't want to hurt him.

-Maybe she just wanted to hand him over to the AA's? Let her not fight (as she wants) and let them have their ''revenge''?

TL.DR - Elizabeth didn't want to actually hurt/kill him.

- Why she had to be saved from 3C Estarossa? You would think that with that level of magic, she at the very least would have been able to escape for herself, but it wasn't the case at all.

Plot really. Plus, with the entire situation with Estarossa taking her to Heaven's Theatre she was curious about who he was and wanted to recruit him to fight against Meliodas. Unconsciously, she felt like he was Mael or someone she knew and thus didn't want to fight off/abandon him.

With Meliodas, she did fight him off and run away, but with Estarossa there was an underlying feeling of her wanting to know who he was.

- Why she went pale with only sensing 4C Mael's mere presence?

I don't know really. If you wanted me to drag any excuse out of the book, then I'd say:

-She wanted everyone to run because they could be killed + she didn't want Mael to be killed by them.

-To hype Mael, for King's power-up.

- Why didn't she try anything against DK Mel and her only contribution during the fight was her cheering Mel pretty much? Why her Ark didn't do anything to a half-dead DK Mel, who broke it instantly?

Wasn't everyone trying to protect her? Wrapping her in bubble wrap, inside a perfect cube and not even give her a chance to fight? Plus, this time the DK wasn't standing still and letting her fire ark at him - he was going to attack her with his tentacles.

Human Elizabeth being powerful enough to actually mock DK Zel, bypass his magic immunity and hurt him does make even less sense than saying that DK Zel is weakened and somehow can't use his magic immunity.

Disagree, Nakaba's consistency with Elizabeth's power (I.E making her strong/weak for the plot) makes more sense than the Demon King being incapable of using the very same power his son can.

I don't doubt Eli is powerful, I always thought she was and I've defended her way before the last chapters came, but I think we should wait for more feats before getting too carried away with this feat of her seemingly bypassing the DK's magic.

Perhaps.

The biggest issue with Elizabeth is Nakaba's consistency. For one moment she'll be the damsel in distress to move the plot forward and in other situations she'll fodderize/embarrass somebody without much issue even though that contradicts earlier scenes.

 

[Shadowlord123]

I mean... there's no explanation as to why the Demon King can't use his magic immunity in Zeldris body when his son can use it without being possessed.

Plus, the Demon King commented that Elizabeth's magic attack wasn't capable of killing the ''Demon King'' which reflects how Zeldris has commented on multiple occasions that magical attacks will do nothing to him.

Why have such arrogance against Elizabeth's attack unless he had his immunity active? I'm sure he underestimated her, but at the same time he should be aware that she isn't entirely weak.

No, you're right. I can't prove that he didn't have his immunity and I actually think it makes more sense to think that he has it as I explained earlier.

You're looking too much into it. What the DK said is that a mere Ark won't be able to kill him (it doesn't matter much if the Ruler is activated or not). I don't think it has anything to do with Zel saying that it doesn't matter how strong the magical attack is, it won't work on him.

I see your point, but it just doesn't make any sense. Human Eli has done nothing to suggest that her magic is even close to bypassing the DK's power. If she was in her original Goddess Body I could understand it to some degree, but as a human? When you even have Ludoshel being incapable of bypassing it or Mael's Greatest Sun too? That's why I'm not buying it as of now.

Plot? Would you rather see Escanor fight Meliodas and turn into ''The One'' to finish him or have Elizabeth solo him without much difficulty? Even as a Elizabeth fan, I'd rather see a tough battle than a one-sided domination.

Plus, you could argue that Elizabeth didn't want to hurt Meliodas and showed at a later moment that she was perfectly comfortable in being inside a perfect cube with him, when he might've woken up when she was holding him.

The lovers are very cautious about hurting each other, Meliodas forced Elizabeth into some situations but never directly hurt her to do so and allowed Elizabeth to slap him. Elizabeth practically begged Merlin to let her heal him since she was worried about his health - So I'd say one reason why Elizabeth didn't jump in the cube with Meliodas was because she didn't want to hurt him?

Wow, let's chill for a second. Human Eli didn't want to spank AM Mel? I don't know man, this sounds headcanon for me. While it's true that Mel was considerably weakened (only at 142K), nothing Human Eli has shown thus far suggests that she would have been able to do what you said. Even Merlin said that had not been for Escanor and the Perfect Cube, Meliodas would have killed them all.

Multiple reasons in my opinion:

-Estarossa is actually Mael, a Goddess who has a natural resistance against the light element, thus helping him break out of the ark easier along with the force of his darkness.

-Elizabeth was more concerned about protecting Derieri, since she didn't want Estarossa to collect her commandment for Meliodas. I think this is supported by how Elizabeth simply moved him away and crashed him into a mountain rather than toss him around (like with the DK) or explode the ark for larger damage. She simply tossed him away and didn't care for what happened? If she wanted really hurt him, why not explode the ark? Why not do an ark blast or a more offensive move by nature?

-Plot? Or because she had a subtle hint about who Estarossa is (she noted how ''she knew him'' before this moment) and thus didn't want to hurt him.

-Maybe she just wanted to hand him over to the AA's? Let her not fight (as she wants) and let them have their ''revenge''?

TL.DR - Elizabeth didn't want to actually hurt/kill him.

The argument that she didn't want to hurt him is a little bit ehh. As you said she made him crash against a fucking mountain (which IMO is a sign that she wanted to hurt him a little, lol) and the reason she didn't make the Ark explode it's probably because Estarossa broke it with his darkness before she could made it explode. There's no reason really as to why Eli wouldn't hurt him, tbh.

Plot really. Plus, with the entire situation with Estarossa taking her to Heaven's Theatre she was curious about who he was and wanted to recruit him to fight against Meliodas. Unconsciously, she felt like he was Mael or someone she knew and thus didn't want to fight off/abandon him.

With Meliodas, she did fight him off and run away, but with Estarossa there was an underlying feeling of her wanting to know who he was.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't explain why she got nearly killed by a 3C Estarossa's darkness. Plus, if she really wanted to save him, wouldn't she have purified him? You would think that with the level of magic she has shown, purifying him would have been the best option, but she didn't.

She also didn't fight with Mel. Unless you think a slap that Mel didn't even bother to dodge or block is a fight.

Disagree, Nakaba's consistency with Elizabeth's power (I.E making her strong/weak for the plot) makes more sense than the Demon King being incapable of using the very same power his son can.

Very debatable. I think both things suck, tbh.

Perhaps.

The biggest issue with Elizabeth is Nakaba's consistency. For one moment she'll be the damsel in distress to move the plot forward and in other situations she'll fodderize/embarrass somebody without much issue even though that contradicts earlier scenes.

This is so true. Elizabeth for me is as strong as Nakaba needs her to be. If Nakaba doesn't want her to do anything, she won't do anything, even if her opponents are below her. If Nakaba wants her to do something, she's gonna do something even if she ends up hurting and mocking God Tiers that should be far above her (specially on a weak human body). It all depends on Nakaba's mood I guess, which isn't a good thing.

 

[sobreno]

You'll say anything to not give Elizabeth credit right?

If Zeldris can use magic immunity, why can't the Demon King in the very same body?

It doesn't matter if he's nerfed, he gave the same ability to Zeldris and is stronger than his son inside said vessel yet can't use it?

You're making no sense.

Because he was severely weakened and couldn't use it.

It is obvious that he didn't had access to Hod, nor the Ruler yet lol

 

[Ger]

Estarossa no diffed her arc, and also she was scared shitless against 4C mael by his mere magic power. So you're telling me since estarossa survived her ark without difficulty hes above DK? Do u know what these contradictory of feats means? It means it is an outlier and it isnt consistent, although DK was not serious at all and playing around her while talking shit about her ability, which meliodas told all of us that Elizabeth did the same thing to him when he underestimated her. So shes no means to scale equal to prime meliodas as she never fought meliodas at full power.

 

[sobreno]

Estarossa no diffed her arc, and also she was scared shitless against 4C mael by his mere magic power. So you're telling me since estarossa survived her ark without difficulty hes above DK? Do u know what these contradictory of feats means? It means it is an outlier and it isnt consistent, although DK was not serious at all and playing around her while talking shit about her ability, which meliodas told all of us that Elizabeth did the same thing to him when he underestimated her. So shes no means to scale equal to prime meliodas as she never fought meliodas at full power.

Well, of course lol. There is a big difference when the character underestimate you greatly and when he is far from being at his Original strength and power.

Prime Mel from 3000 years ago when he is serious is mile away from a Mel who play around because of his bad habit. We saw it when he made Mael retreat single handedly by himself.

 

[Seven777]

The only logical explanation is that Elizabeth somehow got stronger, otherwise a good chunk of the manga doesn't make sense sadly.

Not saving Glox and Dolor, being helpless against AM Mel, shittng pants at 4C Mael, etc, it just don't make sense. The DK as he is now is still powerful enough to tank hits from Meliodas and cause the world to reject him, Elizabeth being able to hurt him doesn't make sense unless she has become stronger.

As for how, could be that breaking the curse the first time gave her her full goddess strength back. Could be the longer she retains her memories, the stronger she gets, she's never survived the curse this long. Could be that she gets weaker when she gets all peaceful, like Meliodas. Worst case scenario, Nakaba never explains it and Elizabeth is just this powerful cause plot, but lets get real here, Elizabeth is ridiculously strong, theres no denying that now, and she's probably going to get even better feats in the future.

 

[sobreno]

The only logical explanation is that Elizabeth somehow got stronger, otherwise a good chunk of the manga doesn't make sense sadly.

Not saving Glox and Dolor, being helpless against AM Mel, shittng pants at 4C Mael, etc, it just don't make sense. The DK as he is now is still powerful enough to tank hits from Meliodas and cause the world to reject him, Elizabeth being able to hurt him doesn't make sense unless she has become stronger.

As for how, could be that breaking the curse the first time gave her her full goddess strength back. Could be the longer she retains her memories, the stronger she gets, she's never survived the curse this long. Could be that she gets weaker when she gets all peaceful, like Meliodas. Worst case scenario, Nakaba never explains it and Elizabeth is just this powerful cause plot, but lets get real here, Elizabeth is ridiculously strong, theres no denying that now, and she's probably going to get even better feats in the future.

There is a difference between hurting or bruising someone and being able to literally defeat it lol.

The rest is just your poor assumption lol.

She could because he underestimate her and he isn't at his Original power and inside a far weaker host lol.

 

[Seven777]

There is a difference between hurting or bruising someone and being able to literally defeat it lol.

The rest is just your poor assumption lol.

She could because he underestimate her and he isn't at his Original power and inside a far weaker host lol.

Uhuh

Of course it is

You're in denial, as you have been about Eli's strength since Mael mentioned it and before. But I don't really care at this point, Elizabeth is just gonna get more feats anyway.

 

[sobreno]

Uhuh

Of course it is

You're in denial, as you have been about Eli's strength since Mael mentioned it and before. But I don't really care at this point, Elizabeth is just gonna get more feats anyway.

Yes, we are lol and she also get killed by a mere rock lol.

It is you who is in denial, talk when she get those so called feat. Merlin and Derrierie mentioned that she is back with her Original power minus the body advantage, that is all.

 

[Seven777]

Yes, we are lol and she also get killed by a mere rock lol.

It is you who is in denial, talk when she get those so called feat. Merlin and Derrierie mentioned that she is back with her Original power minus the body advantage, that is all.

She also didn't get killed by Derriere's fist. Rock>Derriere's punch in your opinion lol?

Not like she needs more, her current feat is already better than anything Meliodas has ever done prior to Purgatory, it's just going to be funny watching you desperately try and refute all the even better feats she'll soon be getting.

 

[sobreno]

She also didn't get killed by Derriere's fist. Rock>Derriere's punch in your opinion lol?

Not like she needs more, her current feat is already better than anything Meliodas has ever done prior to Purgatory.

She got knocked out means that she was KO, doesn't matter that she didn't get killed as she was out of the comission lol.

Lol not really as it doesn't come close to bypassing the hax power of God itself, bruising a far weakened DK inside a far weaker vessel who underestimate her and put his guard down on purpose, lol nope.

 

[BurlapJack]

Elizabeth is just gonna get more feats anyway.

Thats the kicker though, nakaba tends to have characters show off feats once then they forget to fight a chapter later

 

[sobreno]

Thats the kicker though, nakaba tends to have characters show off feats once then they forget to fight a chapter later

Lol I doubt it once the DK regain his Original strength and abilities.

 

[Seven777]

She got knocked out means that she was KO, doesn't matter that she didn't get killed as she was out of the comission lol.

Lol not really as it doesn't come close to bypassing the hax power of God itself, bruising a far weakened DK inside a far weaker vessel who underestimate her and put his guard down on purpose, lol nope.

Sure it does, it means Derriere's punch has less force than a rock, in a manga where 3k Mel could split a hill with a twig lol. She also tanked 4C Mael's love bomb too. Rock>Love Commandment I guess lol.

Except it does, and she did that too.

 

[sobreno]

Sure it does, it means Derriere's punch has less force than a rock, in a manga where 3k Mel could split a mountain lol. She also tanked 4C Mael's love bomb too. Rock>Love Commandment I guess lol.

Except it does, and she did that too.

You realize that she punched a Goddess and not a Human with Goddess power? Lol.

Try to process the difference. She still get Ko-ed so moot point once again.

Nope, it isn't, you are just wanking her and downplaying Mel as usual.

 

[Seven777]

You realize that she punched a Goddess and not a Human with Goddess power? Lol.

Try to process the difference.

Nope, it isn't, you are just wanking her and downplaying Mel as usual.

You realize that same human tanked the power of the Love commandment lol?

Nope, its just that you have always wanked Mel and always downplayed Elizabeth, and now are salty because her feats are so much better than "Prime Mel's". Before a couple of chapters ago you tried to argue she was weaker than Derriere lol, even after what Mael told us.

 

[sobreno]

You realize that same human tanked the power of the Love commandment lol?

Nope, its just that you have always wanked Mel and always downplayed Elizabeth, and now are salty because her feats are so much better than "Prime Mel's". Before a couple of chapters ago you tried to argue she was weaker than Derriere lol, even after what Mael told us.

You realize that it wasn't a " tank "? A shockwave that didn't harm physical once you aren't in point blank on his explosion as showed that even Hawk was scratch less?

Not really, it is you who always downplay him in that forum lol and wank a nonexistant feat from a character who underestimate her and didn't have any if his Original power.

Unlike him who literally bypassed the principles of hax behind his God ability whi nullifies any magic ability, no matter the strength behind. Look like that salty one is you lol.

Well, she is weaker than her as for now and if she isn't careful, she can get one shoted as showed in the Holy War. Not my fault if her durability and physical stats suck.