Discussion NNT versus thread

[sobreno]

Holy knight saga Meliodas with liz sword ( can go berserk mode ) vs Matrona.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Holy knight saga Meliodas with liz sword ( can go berserk mode ) vs Matrona.

If he can go Berserk he wins. Even without it he has a chance to win via Revenge Counter (tho, in this case Matrona would still win more times than not).

 

[sobreno]

If he can go Berserk he wins. Even without it he has a chance to win via Revenge Counter (tho, in this case Matrona would still win more times than not).

Yeah, Holy Knight saga Meliodas was truly interesting to discuss his fight.

His power was also well balanced and fascinating.

 

[Shadowlord123]

I was thinking on doing some fights with hypothetical versions of characters that are featless or we might never see.

All Induras vs Supreme Deity (50%)

Some conditions:

- Prime Mel, Zel, Chandler and Cusack or The Sinner's hypothetical Indura forms are included. Of course it goes without saying that Monspeet, Derieri, Baruja, as well as the regular Induras that roam there are also included.
- Night time.
- Fully Grown forms.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Can you see it yourself how big he is? He is literally at the same size when he killed Meliodas 3000 years ago.

Exactly, that is how numbers work, we take them as face value unlike subjective concepts and words.
For number, you can't be subjective.

Yes, he named his attack after a Nebula which is a concept, doesn't mean that it works like a real one.

Yes, which is why you take it as face value when a clear numbers is given. Like I said, in fantasy, that is possible.

And Merlin said Assault Meliodas was the same Meliodas from 3,000 years ago even though he was still regressing. Just because it looks one way doesn’t mean it is.

Again, we can’t take it face value just because it’s a number. No other attacks work like that really and numbers are no different just because they’re numbers. You can absolutely be subjective with numbers, there is no rule that says you cannot. Point being you cannot say one thing is literal but the other isn’t. That’s not consistent logic. So far the only numerical attack that is literal is probably divine 1,000 slices.

Anyway I’m going off topic. So back to my main point

Ban was able to go toe to toe with possessed DK Mel (PDKM) and even when the demon king gained nearly full possession of Mel’s body Ban still was able to hang in there and still damage him. He did this all without magic or a sacred treasure.

Base Mel on the other hand needed to power up to equalize the playing field with possessed demon king Zel (PDKZ) who was stated to be inferior to Mel’s vessel and not only that, but Mel has his sacred treasure.

Ban by the latest feats is going to win. When both fought opponents of the same tier, Ban was able to remain in base and fight on equal terms and Mel had to power up. Ban is roughly on par with PDKM and probably stronger than PDKZ. Opponents that would force Mel to go outside of his base to even the playing field which he can’t do for this battle. And to top it off, Ban can drain huge amounts of strength thanks to purgatory from Mel.

 

[sobreno]

And Merlin said Assault Meliodas was the same Meliodas from 3,000 years ago even though he was still regressing. Just because it looks one way doesn’t mean it is.

Again, we can’t take it face value just because it’s a number. No other attacks work like that really and numbers are no different just because they’re numbers. You can absolutely be subjective with numbers, there is no rule that says you cannot. Point being you cannot say one thing is literal but the other isn’t. That’s not consistent logic. So far the only numerical attack that is literal is probably divine 1,000 slices.

False equivalence once again, DK is different as he was there far longer and had all the time to regain his strength via eating.

Yes, we can, the others attack doesn't have " numbers " on it.
One character can be draw doing one movement named " 10 successive movement " and it is accepted to be 10.

That is how it works, numbers are taken as face value because they are abjective in themselves.
Nope, you can't if you gave the exact finite numbers which is what we have here.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

False equivalence once again, DK is different as he was there far longer and had all the time to regain his strength via eating.

It’s not a false equivalence. You just keep adding excuses for each character. Every thing has its difference, so acting like it’s one and the same isn’t even applicable in this. If the difference are small, then let them be. Otherwise everything is a false equivalence by definition

Yes, we can, the others attack doesn't have " numbers " on it.
One character can be draw doing one movement named " 10 successive movement " and it is accepted to be 10.

That’s something you just made up. Nakaba has never said numbers have to be taken literal but non numbers don’t

 

[sobreno]

It’s not a false equivalence. You just keep adding excuses for each character. Every thing has its difference, so acting like it’s one and the same isn’t even applicable in this. If the difference are small, then let them be


That’s something you just made up. Nakaba has never said numbers have to be taken literal but non numbers don’t

But it is false equivalence, you are bringing two different stuffs and characters here.
We are talking about the DK's size lol, compared to before only.

Not Nakaba, it is common sense dude, numbers are taken as face value, they are here for that.
They are mathematical information and data and they are objective correct.

It is a mathematical description of the scene.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

But it is false equivalence, you are bringing two different stuffs and characters here.
We are talking about the DK's size lol, compared to before only.

They operate on the exact same way.
DK is not a full strength because he has room to keep growing
Mel was not at full strength because he had room to keep regressing.
The only difference is what gives them back their full power

Not Nakaba, it is common sense dude, numbers are taken as face value, they are here for that.
They are mathematical information and data and they are objective correct.

Literally the Bible and Kakashi’s “1,000” years of death disagree

 

[sobreno]

They operate on the exact same way.
DK is not a full strength because he has room to keep growing
Mel was not at full strength because he had room to keep regressing.
The only difference is what gives them back their full power


Literally the Bible and Kakashi’s “1,000” years of death disagree

Naw, it isn't.

He doesn't had room growing in size since his size is literally the same as when he killed Meliodas 3000 years ago, he can't be bigger than that at 50% without the second half, the 10 commandments, which he finally got right now.

False equivalence once again, Kakashi's attack didn't describe his move unlike Meliodas and his Trillions dark which was self explanatory by image alone.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

He doesn't had room growing in size since his size is literally the same as when he killed Meliodas 3000 years ago, he can't be bigger than that at 50% without the second half, the 10 commandments, which he finally got right now.

That entire thing is based on your opinion of his size. For all we know he could be ten feet smaller and less muscular at the moment.
Wild’s words> how big you think he should be

False equivalence once again, Kakashi's attack didn't describe his move unlike Meliodas and his Trillions dark which was self explanatory by image alone.

Again false equivalences apppy to things that are complete opposites. Every time I pull up something you just pick out one tiny detail and use that to say “false equivalency”

“Kakashi’s move doesn’t describe the technique” that’s a rule you made up for the numbers again

 

[sobreno]

That entire thing is based on your opinion of his size. For all we know he could be ten feet smaller and less muscular at the moment.
Wild’s words> how big you think he should be

Again false equivalences apppy to things that are complete opposites. Every time I pull up something you just pick out one tiny detail and use that to say “false equivalency”

Wild didn't say that he is still small, he indicate that he was growing in size by eating creatures in Purgatory and yes, he was extremely huge when he faced them for the last time.

Indeed and they are opposite, Kakashi's context of the name of his move doesn't correlate to the move itself unlike with Meliodas which gave the numbers of his dark balls.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Wild didn't say that he is still small, he indicate that he was growing in size by eating creatures in Purgatory

If he’s still growing then he’s smaller than he originally was. He’d be lacking strength.

Indeed and they are opposite, Kakashi's context of the name of his move doesn't correlate to the move itself unlike with Meliodas which gave the numbers of his dark balls.

This is a rule you made up. Did Nakaba or any law of “common sense” say that the numbers had to describe the attack for it to be literal?

Look here’s how it goes based off the fights

Ban with no magic= possessed DK Mel
Possessed DK Mel is about = to Possessed DK Zel
Possessed DK Zel> Base Mel since Mel needed to use his demon mark to equalize the field
Therefore Ban no magic>= Base Mel. Snatch included, he wins this

 

[sobreno]

If he’s still growing then he’s smaller than he originally was. He’d be lacking strength.


This is a rule you made up. Did Nakaba or any law of “common sense” say that the numbers had to describe the attack for it to be literal?

Look here’s how it goes based off the fights

Ban with no magic= possessed DK Mel
Possessed DK Mel is about = to Possessed DK Zel
Possessed DK Zel> Base Mel since Mel needed to use his demon mark to equalize the field
Therefore Ban no magic>= Base Mel. Snatch included, he wins this

He wasn't " still " growing, he " was " still growing which he stopped when he reached his Original size before he came there.

Nope, it isn't, you are just ignoring basic common sense at taking numerical numbers at face value.

Lol no, Possessed DK Mel>Ban which needed help from the inside battle.

Base Mel destroyed that DK inside and outside with Zeldoris twice without any difficulty.

Base Emo Mel > Base Ban, snatch included with better feats and showing against the Purgatory DK himself in his true body and in several others occasion.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Lol no, Possessed DK Mel>Ban which needed help from the inside battle.

Even when the DK had Mel subdued the damage to Ban was superficial. Not only that but Mel needed help too in the spiritual battle from his friends.

Base Mel destroyed that DK inside and outside with Zeldoris twice without any difficulty.

Yeah then DK powered up and Mel had to power up to match him. Before that the DK was splattering blood across the page

Base Emo Mel > Base Ban, snatch included with better feats and showing against the Purgatory DK himself in his true body and in several others occasion.

By that logic then Wild is the strongest of the three. He’s able to overpower the DK at his full power and dent his armor. Mel needed his OG magic just to escape and Ban was able to struggle against the DK’s strength. Again, Mel needed OG magic when captured

As for him growing. The word “was” is never used in the chapter. The word is continually

 

[sobreno]

Even when the DK had Mel subdued the damage to Ban was superficial. Not only that but Mel needed help too in the spiritual battle from his friends.


Yeah then DK powered up and Mel had to power up to match him


By that logic then Wild is the strongest of the three. He’s able to overpower the DK at his full power and dent his armor. Mel needed his OG magic just to escape and Ban was able to struggle against the DK’s strength. Again, Mel needed OG magic when captured

As for him growing. The word “was” is never used in the chapter. The word is continually

He literally blitzed and had him in his hands while still recovering from the beating inside.
You also forgot that he needed time to assimilate the vessel, with Meliodas, there was zero assimilation, literally a rebellion lol. Meliodas didn't dissapeared like Zeldoris.

Lol no, Meliodas, while holding back, destroyed him. It was even stated that he was holding back.

Well, yeah, temporary at that moment, Wild did better than them in his 8 gates moment, until Meliodas activated his OG magic and outclassed them all in who damaged him the most casually.

" continually " means that indeed, he was growing from before until he faced them several years later when he had the same exact size as 3000 years ago, yes.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

He literally blitzed and had him in his hands while still recovering from the beating inside.
You also forgot that he needed time to assimilate the vessel, with Meliodas, there was zero assimilation, literally a rebellion lol. Meliodas didn't dissapeared like Zeldoris.

Mel was temporarily gone and defeated. That’s why the sins had to come in and save him and why the DK felt an increase in power the moment Mel gave up.
Ban got blitzed? Mel took a whole flurry of attacks to the face and had to power up. That’s way worse than being Ban when the DK gets to paint on your face.

Lol no, Meliodas, while holding back, destroyed him. It was even stated that he was holding back.

This was before DK Zel powered up.

Well, yeah, temporary at that moment, Wild did better than them in his 8 gates moment, until Meliodas activated his OG magic and outclassed them all in who damaged him the most casually.

Out of the two that did damage to the DK during that scene, Mel was the only one who didn’t. Ban hurt him with gift and wild used full throttle. Mel parried his attacks, but lost the advantage at the end of the sword fight.

he was growing from before until he faced them several years later when he had the same exact size as 3000 years ago, yes.

That was never stated by Wild. You’re adding details that were never stated by him or Nakaba

 

[Estarossa173]

Current Diane vs Dolor.

Zaratras and Dreyfus vs Matrona.

Drole wins.

Assuming Dreyfus doesn’t have “Full Size”, Matrona wins. But if he does, it could go either way.

 

[sobreno]

Mel was temporarily gone and defeated. That’s why the sins had to come in and save him and why the DK felt an increase in power the moment Mel gave up.
Ban got blitzed? Mel took a whole flurry of attacks to the face and had to power up. That’s way worse than being Ban when the DK gets to paint on your face.


This was before DK Zel powered up.


Out of the two that did damage to the DK during that scene, Mel was the only one who didn’t. Ban hurt him with gift and wild used full throttle. Mel parried his attacks, but lost the advantage at the end of the sword fight.


That was never stated by Wild. You’re adding details that were never stated by him or Nakaba

He was and that wasn't enough to assimilate completely through vessel lol, remember that the vessel's soul has to dissapeared completely which wasn't the case of Meliodas.

Yes, blitzed lol.

Still destroyed him upon activating his Demon power while still holding back lol and the attack didn't leave nothing at the end, he was still clean.

That was nothing lol, he ended being saved him Emo Mel which literally parried a powerful sword slash at their direction and tanked a direct sword slash at point blank without dying.

That was implying which again is irrelevant as we are talking about size alone and we have scan to " scale " it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2019 ---

Drole wins.

Assuming Dreyfus doesn’t have “Full Size”, Matrona wins. But if he does, it could go either way.

Completely forgot about his Full Size lol. He should be able to defeat her with it.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

He was and that wasn't enough to assimilate completely through vessel lol, remember that the vessel's soul has to dissapeared completely which wasn't the case of Meliodas.

Zel’s soul isn’t gone either according to Bakadata. It’s vanishing, just as Mel’s was. Zel is still fully conscious until the end of the chapter. After Mel needed to power up. Also, even then the DK Mel couldn’t do anything to ban. He barely even managed to pierce his body. And Ban couldn’t even use magic during the fight. Snatch completely ruins any chance base Mel has with how powerful Ban has gotten.

Still destroyed him upon activating his Demon power while still holding back lol and the attack didn't leave nothing at the end, he was still clean.

He can’t use DK powers in this fight though. It’s his base vs Ban. Also it leaving nothing makes sense because Wild jumped in before Mel could get hit with a direct blow.

That was nothing lol, he ended being saved him Emo Mel which literally parried a powerful sword slash at their direction and tanked a direct sword slash at point blank without dying.

Powerful? They’ve been tanking his attacks for 60+ years. The most wild got out of an attack that he intercepted for Mel in the past was cut wound.