M3J

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Yep.
You seem to comprehend things well so props for that.
I can't be assed to read earlier convos, but were you not arguing that Sanji failed in knocking out Big Mom because her eyes weren't closed, and she was still talking and orgasming loudly enough from the food?
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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You were upset on Luffy getting one-shot by Kaido? Why's that?
Cos after the whole learning process with Katakuri. I expected my boy Luffy to at least make Kaido struggle with regards to landing a hit (if a hit is all it'd take to put Luffy down - I mean who could've guessed?).
It seems it'd take Luffy a few more close calls and Haki evolution to bring his Haki game at the level of Katakuri and beyond.

And it didn't help that I could sense some kind of new found confidence in him during his arrival at Wano. It was all just a big fat trolling by Oda.
The defeat was extremely disappointing and even more so a Oneshot.

:s
 

nik87

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I totally expected Luffy to get wrecked by Emperors and I said that future sight was the most useless power-up he could get. :toc
 

M3J

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I totally expected Luffy to get wrecked by Emperors and I said that future sight was the most useless power-up he could get. :toc
Finally, someone who actually makes sense regarding the new power Luffy got. He still got his ass beaten by Kaidou in one shot, which was surprising actually, given Luffy's tenacity. Shows Luffy is in no way ready to take on an Emperor, and given Kaidou losing his shit over Big Mom landing on Wano, we can assume she's powerful as well. Shows just how big a gap is between Supernovas/Yonkou Commanders and Emperors.
 

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Well he can't activate it while upset as he was attacking in rage. Katakuri said you need to be calm and reserved on using COO or lose focus. Luffy was clearly in rage after what Kaido did with almost killing his group. We can't blame his emotions getting the best of him in the situation.

It make sense why he didn't see it coming and getting one-shot.
 

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I totally expected Luffy to get wrecked by Emperors and I said that future sight was the most useless power-up he could get. :toc
I wouldn't say it's useless but the emperors are a different calibre of opponents. Any powerups he receives would help; even this, but at the level that he has it, it won't make much of a difference. If any.
 

M3J

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Well he can't activate it while upset as he was attacking in rage. Katakuri said you need to be calm and reserved on using COO or lose focus. Luffy was clearly in rage after what Kaido did with almost killing his group. We can't blame his emotions getting the best of him in the situation.

It make sense why he didn't see it coming and getting one-shot.
Even if he did use it, he still would have been outclassed immensely, the only difference would be delaying the inevitable. There's no point in being able to see the opponent's next move if you can't even hurt the opponent or tank his attack.

Otherwise I am well aware one has to be calm to use it...
 

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I totally expected Luffy to get wrecked by Emperors and I said that future sight was the most useless power-up he could get. :toc
Future sight isnt useless, its just not enough to take down a yonkou. I actually prefer future sight to something like a gear 5. Besides, theres a lot more with haki that Luffy needs to learn, specially with CoC.
 

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Future sight isnt useless, its just not enough to take down a yonkou. I actually prefer future sight to something like a gear 5. Besides, theres a lot more with haki that Luffy needs to learn, specially with CoC.
The reason why I think that FS on Luffy is useless is that it changes nothing. What do I mean with that?
Luffy already has the plot protection of being immortal, at least until the series ends. He already has insane reflexes and evasive maneuvers. So, when it comes to defense what is FS gonna change? Nothing.
Also, his body is not logia-like to pull off Katakuri style.

Given the natural progression of his opponents as the story goes we reached the top tier of the OP universe. Seeing what the Yonkos or Admirals will do slightly into the future changes nothing simply because he is not strong enough to do anything about it. Even if he were strong enough to do something to them FS is not a tool that would help him win, I seriously doubt it.

Another thing, Luffy is not the type who fights the calm way, it's out of his character. The ground is always burning under his feet and he is in a rush and under pressure, being seriously emotionally invested. Future Sight is a really weird thing on Luffy.
 

M3J

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But why does Luffy need to pull off Katakuri style or logia style? He's rubber, he's avoided attacks by stretching and bending his body, especially neck, in ways no normal human can. That's the sort of stuff I was expecting and hoping to see, actually.

Plus, FS could also be a way for Luffy to mature and fight more calmly.
 

hokageji

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Luffy already has the plot protection of being immortal
You cant use plot protection in this argument.


So, when it comes to defense what is FS gonna change? Nothing.
What about the time when Mihawk almost slashed him into two pieces. How much armament haki do you think will be enough to withstand Mihawk's slice? You don't have to have a logia-like body to use future sight. Even if he has the strongest haki in the world, it may not be able to resist all types of attacks. He can also use future sight to protect his crew from an incoming attack.


Another thing, Luffy is not the type who fights the calm way, it's out of his character. The ground is always burning under his feet and he is in a rush and under pressure, being seriously emotionally invested. Future Sight is a really weird thing on Luffy.
Maturing as a character is also important for Luffy's growth. Being able to remain calm at the heat of the moment and use haki effectively. I think future sight was also important for that reason.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

But why does Luffy need to pull off Katakuri style or logia style? He's rubber, he's avoided attacks by stretching and bending his body, especially neck, in ways no normal human can. That's the sort of stuff I was expecting and hoping to see, actually.

Plus, FS could also be a way for Luffy to mature and fight more calmly.
I think Oda might touch on stamina and haki connection sometime in the future. We saw how Law mentioned using his DF is limited by his stamina. Assuming the same with haki, If CoA haki usage affects stamina, then future sight is equally important. You cannot always block an attack, dodging with his rubber techniques make be even more impotant.
 

nik87

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But why does Luffy need to pull off Katakuri style or logia style? He's rubber, he's avoided attacks by stretching and bending his body, especially neck, in ways no normal human can. That's the sort of stuff I was expecting and hoping to see, actually.
He doesnt, correct but would you agree that it's far more effective with Logia-like body? So effective that Luffy didnt know why he wasnt able to hit him.

You cant use plot protection in this argument.
Why not? You can see that he isnt allowed to die no matter what. You can see in the Katakuri fight when the spear took a chunk out of his stomach that in the next page he continued the fight as if that never happened.
Whether he had FS and dodged the spear or if he took damage from it, his fight went on the same. He never implied that spear hit had any effect on him after that scene.

How much armament haki do you think will be enough to withstand Mihawk's slice?
I think he will never have such lvl of haki that would allow him to take Mihawk's slices barehanded, however, he can always dodge them. His reflexes are insane so why add FS to it?
Protecting the crew is a good point but Oda can always prevent such moments by not exposing them to something that would need FS or he can make something else save them - Shinobu rotting earth saving them from Boro breath...
 

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He doesnt, correct but would you agree that it's far more effective with Logia-like body? So effective that Luffy didnt know why he wasnt able to hit him.
Well, I am not arguing that Katakuri used it extremely effectively. Of course he did, and that was brilliant by all aspects. But calling it completely useless is inaccurate.
As M3J also pointed out, he can stretch himself and get out of situations. Imagine an incoming attack and Luffy uses future sight to stretch his body everywhere and then all those things comeback for a full on attack. Alright, maybe not the best imagination but I am not the author and I trust Oda can do a good enough job of it. Seeing the future can be an excellent defensive technique. Katakuri even saw Pudding collapse before it actually happened, Luffy can use something like that to protect himself, his crew in excellent manner.


I think he will never have such lvl of haki that would allow him to take Mihawk's slices barehanded, however, he can always dodge them. His reflexes are insane so why add FS to it?
Protecting the crew is a good point but Oda can always prevent such moments by not exposing them to something that would need FS or he can make something else save them - Shinobu rotting earth saving them from Boro breath...
Well, if you agree that haki isn't alone enough to defend an attack from Mihawk, then you gotta agree even more that future sight is important. Yes, he can dodge them but only if he can see an attack come in. Mihawks' slice isn't slow, it can be faster than a blink and in such a scenario, future sight will allow him to dodge it.
Also, the argument has to be from within the story. Oda can do a lot of things but I don't think those can be used in an argument. If its an opinion, sure. THen I am likely to hear that FS is not something you liked as a development for Luffy. I am of the opinion that Oda should never give Franky haki, because Franky is a man of science and should use science to counter any physical limits and beyond. I am also not a fan of gear 4, but that's just an opinion. By calling it useless, you are implying that within the limits of the story, FS cannot be useful at all.

I think FS was a necessary powerup. I am sure there are other versions of CoO as well (thinking of Usopp's farsight which he awakened). This arc would require Luffy to sharpen his Kings Haki, which we've barely seen so far.
 

M3J

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I think Oda might touch on stamina and haki connection sometime in the future. We saw how Law mentioned using his DF is limited by his stamina. Assuming the same with haki, If CoA haki usage affects stamina, then future sight is equally important. You cannot always block an attack, dodging with his rubber techniques make be even more impotant.
I don't think devil fruit is always limited by stamina, it just depends. Law's devil fruit is limited by his stamina, but Luffy's doesn't seem to be, unless he uses the Gears (or used Gear 2 and 3 given he has no drawback to them now).

CoO also seems to affect stamina as well. But again, how will he be able to hurt Big Mom and Kaidou if he lacks the strength to deal damage?
He doesnt, correct but would you agree that it's far more effective with Logia-like body? So effective that Luffy didnt know why he wasnt able to hit him.
I agree, but we're talking about Luffy.
 

nik87

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My point is, Luffy will make it to the other side with future sight or without it. The end result is the same.
While FS can bring some variety in combat and interesting close calls and cliffhangers, that's about it.
Having FS wont make his fights one-sided in his favor like it was in favor for Katakuri so I think he could have moved on without FS as well.
 
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AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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My point is, Luffy will make it to the other side with future sight or without it. The end result is the same.
While FS can bring some variety in combat and interesting close calls and cliffhangers, that's about it.
Having FS wont make his fights one-sided in his favor like it was in favor for Katakuri so I think he could have moved on without FS as well.

With what Oda showed with FS. It was so troublesome that without it Katakuri could've lost to Luffy in fewer chapters than it took.

Prior to figuring out what it was (FS CoO), Luffy even thought Katakuri was invincible. Not bcos of his advanced armament or DF but that crazy FS.


If you aren't able to touch an opponent. You can't defeat them no matter how powerful you are, even if you are as powerful as the Yonko. Plus, the ability to end fights quicker than expected if you have the firepower to hurt a given opponent - that's one of the advantages of having FS.
 

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I think that oda is setting up Luffy to have the most advanced forms of each haki color.
  • He started with observation and its advanced form future sight. I think it will be very important for events to come at the end of the story with all the Im sama thing in cunjonction with his voice of all thing power.
  • Wano will be armament/Hardening haki improvement with most likely an incredible next level armament haki user with muscles harder than diamond and as they say diamond can only be broken by another diamond so luffy will learn that too.
  • The next arcs will show us the real potential of Conquerors haki and Luffy will surpass even Shanks next level conqueror's power.
So in the end I think that there is no point in complaining about Luffy learning future sight cause he would have learned it eventually so that him fighting future opponents with this ability wont be an ass pull.

Last thing for those who are disappointed please remember that Luffy only just learned the ability and is far from mastering it he still has a lot to show us so lets be patient and believe in Oda.
 

nik87

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So in the end I think that there is no point in complaining about Luffy learning future sight cause he would have learned it eventually so that him fighting future opponents with this ability wont be an ass pull.
Yeah, that's very likely to happen. It will probably be very important for 1 specific case/fight.
 

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CoO also seems to affect stamina as well. But again, how will he be able to hurt Big Mom and Kaidou if he lacks the strength to deal damage?
Even the author didn't seemed to know the answer.
 

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Even the author didn't seemed to know the answer.
Oda might surprise us and plus again Rayleigh's words are canon you grow stronger with Haki as you fight, so could be same with Kaido when he face him.
 
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