One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[john ellis]

Looking at the past two chapters I don't get the impression kuma is going to recover. Vegapunk has pretty much made the point that the self destruct in kuma made him pretty much into a potato. It will all come down to the new hidden ability buccaneers have but you'd think vegapunk would be more hopeful if this ability could result in kuma making a full recovery.

If only some yonko had some ridiculous mythical zoan that is said to have powers of a god. Was around to deus machina the situation.

 

[electricmastro]

If only some yonko had some ridiculous mythical zoan that is said to have powers of a god. Was around to deus machina the situation.

Well if Luffy can fully bring Kuma’s personality back using the Nika devil fruit, I await to see it.

 

[kkck]

If only some yonko had some ridiculous mythical zoan that is said to have powers of a god. Was around to deus machina the situation.

hmmm, but which of luffy's godlike powers is good for un-potatoing kuma? I suppose he could have more powers than we have seen so far but this seem beyond luffy's known powers at least. Most of the expectations around kuma returning were on the memories which bonnie used or even vegapunk having backup memories but both seem like sailed ships at this point.

 

[RaisinRisin]

hmmm, but which of luffy's godlike powers is good for un-potatoing kuma? I suppose he could have more powers than we have seen so far but this seem beyond luffy's known powers at least. Most of the expectations around kuma returning were on the memories which bonnie used or even vegapunk having backup memories but both seem like sailed ships at this point.

I think the one hope there (or concern, depending on your perspective) is if the Nika heartbeat sound has a special effect on Kuma because he's of Buccaneer lineage, because he was a devout believer, and because Buccaneers were the ones who, per Vegapunk's description of where DFs come from, would have wished that mythical fruit into existence in the first place. But it's unclear what that would mean for the clones, if it really does work. Also, it doesn't mean Kuma would be fully back to himself. It could easily be partial and/or temporary.

Looking at it again, the "Kuma was right" panel near the end of 1106 does seem to indicate movement of some kind from Kuma. He either fell onto his back from his previous kneeling position (but for some reason we only get a close-up of his face with a little movement/reaction indicator squiggle above it) or he's looking up, whereas before his face was angled straight ahead.

 

[kkck]

I think the one hope there (or concern, depending on your perspective) is if the Nika heartbeat sound has a special effect on Kuma because he's of Buccaneer lineage, because he was a devout believer, and because Buccaneers were the ones who, per Vegapunk's description of where DFs come from, would have wished that mythical fruit into existence in the first place. But it's unclear what that would mean for the clones, if it really does work. Also, it doesn't mean Kuma would be fully back to himself. It could easily be partial and/or temporary.

Looking at it again, the "Kuma was right" panel near the end of 1106 does seem to indicate movement of some kind from Kuma. He either fell onto his back from his previous kneeling position (but for some reason we only get a close-up of his face with a little movement/reaction indicator squiggle above it) or he's looking up, whereas before his face was angled straight ahead.

Potato kuma is definitely still moving. He was seen about to block's kizaru's attack. So he isn't more of a potato than he was on his way to egghead. As I see it vegapunk made sure that kuma ended up a potato after the self destruct was triggered by saturn but he is still protecting bonney through some shenanigan. No idea if there's really a path for him back or not but to me it's not obvious that he is "alive". My last bet on this angle would be that vegapunk studied kuma's memories and has a hard copy and can use it to restore kuma to his pre potato state.

 

[RaisinRisin]

Potato kuma is definitely still moving. He was seen about to block's kizaru's attack. So he isn't more of a potato than he was on his way to egghead. As I see it vegapunk made sure that kuma ended up a potato after the self destruct was triggered by saturn but he is still protecting bonney through some shenanigan. No idea if there's really a path for him back or not but to me it's not obvious that he is "alive". My last bet on this angle would be that vegapunk studied kuma's memories and has a hard copy and can use it to restore kuma to his pre potato state.

It's definitely possible VP would need to get involved for a true Kuma revival to happen, but I brought that up because Bonney's already moved away from him, so if he's moving, it's by himself and not to protect her. It also directly follows Luffy's grinning Nika face, implying in context he could be looking up at it.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Random Kid slander.
Shanks didn't know Kid was even from west blue despite being 1 of the worst generation and being a pirate for 5 years until the day he was defeated.
Even after Ben chopped his arm off, Shanks seemingly never had any regard towards him.

 

[Vanshrimp]

Potato kuma

a potato with an incredible instinct though. like a pacifista but with a Read only mind (factory default setting if you want) = to protect bonney. i expect him to stay that way, till bonney is strong enough to protect herself, or someone very strong attacked him.

 

[Fox666]

I wonder if Elbaf will be like Egghead in that Oda will cut away multiple times to update on Blackbeard, Shanks, Cross Guild, and Imu.

Probably

 

[electricmastro]

One interesting thought I had about Yamato:

If Yamato associates the name “Oden” with freedom, then what exactly does she associate the name “Yamato” with?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

One interesting thought I had about Yamato:

If Yamato associates the name “Oden” with freedom, then what exactly does she associate the name “Yamato” with?

It's just a name to her.

Oden just has a meaning because he was someone obsessed with freedom, and in her mind, being Oden means having freedom. Yamato is just a name to her no less than Sanji is just a name to Sanji, it shouldn't have significant meaning.

She doesn't use the name Oden as a name, but as an adjective, it's a description of what she aims to be, not a literal identification as being Oden. Anyone who is free will probably be considered Oden to her.

 

[electricmastro]

It's just a name to her.

Is it? My thinking was that if a name is just a name, then why place so much particular emphasis on the name of "Oden" instead of the name of "Yamato"?

My gut reaction is to say she might associate the name "Yamato" with entrapment, yet at the same time she didn't have the heart to entirely discard the name in favor of just being "Oden", which she associates with freedom.

She wants to live like Oden, yet she also uses Thunder Bagua, even though Oden never used Thunder Bagua.

She uses a club like Kaido, even though Oden never used a club.

She calls herself Kaido's son, even though Oden isn't Kaido's son.

It's quite the conflict, prob because she feels conflicted, as if she's more confident with "Oden" than "Yamato", but isn't confident enough to leave "Yamato" behind.

So this is what I've concluded: Yamato is lacking in self-worth. A character like that is the sort of character who's motivated by worthlessness, so she uses someone else's reputable name as a way to feel more worth, as opposed to her original name.

 

[RaisinRisin]

Is it? My thinking was that if a name is just a name, then why place so much particular emphasis on the name of "Oden" instead of the name of "Yamato"?

My gut reaction is to say she might associate the name "Yamato" with entrapment, yet at the same time she didn't have the heart to entirely discard the name in favor of just being "Oden", which she associates with freedom.

She wants to live like Oden, yet she also uses Thunder Bagua, even though Oden never used Thunder Bagua. She uses a club like Kaido, even though Oden never used a club. She calls herself Kaido's son, even though Oden isn't Kaido's son. It's quite the conflict, prob because she feels conflicted, as if she's more confident with "Oden" than "Yamato", but isn't confident enough to leave "Yamato" behind.

So this is what I've concluded: Yamato is lacking in self-worth. A character like that is the sort of character who's motivated by worthlessness, so she uses someone else's reputable name as a way to feel more worth, as opposed to her original name.

Interesting interpretation. My initial reaction was that this couldn't be, but when you think about it, people low in self esteem can go to extreme lengths to be praised or accepted. That said, I'm not sure the names matter much to Yamato. Just as gender doesn't seem to.

 

[electricmastro]

Interesting interpretation. My initial reaction was that this couldn't be, but when you think about it, people low in self esteem can go to extreme lengths to be praised or accepted. That said, I'm not sure the names matter much to Yamato. Just as gender doesn't seem to.

In Chapter 1024, she says this:

Now I think about this: why exactly would Yamato care so much about being believed in and accepted that she'd declare that in front of Kaido?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Is it? My thinking was that if a name is just a name, then why place so much particular emphasis on the name of "Oden" instead of the name of "Yamato"?

My gut reaction is to say she might associate the name "Yamato" with entrapment, yet at the same time she didn't have the heart to entirely discard the name in favor of just being "Oden", which she associates with freedom.

She wants to live like Oden, yet she also uses Thunder Bagua, even though Oden never used Thunder Bagua.

She uses a club like Kaido, even though Oden never used a club.

She calls herself Kaido's son, even though Oden isn't Kaido's son.

It's quite the conflict, prob because she feels conflicted, as if she's more confident with "Oden" than "Yamato", but isn't confident enough to leave "Yamato" behind.

So this is what I've concluded: Yamato is lacking in self-worth. A character like that is the sort of character who's motivated by worthlessness, so she uses someone else's reputable name as a way to feel more worth, as opposed to her original name.

You just answered your question, she uses Thunder Bagua, she uses a club, she still goes by the name Yamato, no one calls her Oden.

Oden is just symbolic of Freedom.

When she says I am Oden, she is saying "I AM FREE".

In fact, she said Luffy is MORE ODEN than she is meaning she is using Oden as a replacement word for Freedom.

She has essentially called Luffy Oden which just means free, it's not like she's changed identity, she's just saying she's Oden in the sense that she's Free or she will be free.

 

[electricmastro]

You just answered your question, she uses Thunder Bagua, she uses a club, she still goes by the name Yamato, no one calls her Oden.

Oden is just symbolic of Freedom.

When she says I am Oden, she is saying "I AM FREE".

In fact, she said Luffy is MORE ODEN than she is meaning she is using Oden as a replacement word for Freedom.

She has essentially called Luffy Oden which just means free, it's not like she's changed identity, she's just saying she's Oden in the sense that she's Free or she will be free.

That's interesting, because my understanding from Chapter 994 is that she's trying to use two names, when she says my "other" name is Yamato.

 

[RaisinRisin]

In Chapter 1024, she says this:

Now I think about this: why exactly would Yamato care so much about being believed in and accepted that she'd declare that in front of Kaido?

Oh that's easy. Kaidou didn't love his child unconditionally. Yamato had to perform in certain ways, to meet certain expectations. But every person has their own identity and aspirations. Being trained by samurai of Wano helped her see an alternative and every break from her father's influence was an opportunity to build her own identity. Believing in Luffy and making the request to be accepted by him allowed both the literal and figurative chains to be broken.

You just answered your question, she uses Thunder Bagua, she uses a club, she still goes by the name Yamato, no one calls her Oden.

Oden is just symbolic of Freedom.

When she says I am Oden, she is saying "I AM FREE".

In fact, she said Luffy is MORE ODEN than she is meaning she is using Oden as a replacement word for Freedom.

She has essentially called Luffy Oden which just means free, it's not like she's changed identity, she's just saying she's Oden in the sense that she's Free or she will be free.

But she also goes so far as to call Momo her son or tell him to call her his father. That's not about freedom. That's about being a specific person.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That's interesting, because my understanding from Chapter 994 is that she's trying to use two names, when she says my "other" name is Yamato.

I see it as nothing more than a place holder for Free, she's called Luffy more Oden than her, so I don't think she's using it as a literal name.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2024, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2024 ---

But she also goes so far as to call Momo her son or tell him to call her his father. That's not about freedom. That's about being a specific person.

Pretty sure that was meant to be for comedic purposes.
Wouldn't see much beyond that, but do your research and find some answers if you think there's more to it.

 

[electricmastro]

Pretty sure that was meant to be for comedic purposes.

Considering how Yamato talked about wanting to be accepted more, is it?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2024, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2024 ---

Oh that's easy. Kaidou didn't love his child unconditionally. Yamato had to perform in certain ways, to meet certain expectations. But every person has their own identity and aspirations. Being trained by samurai of Wano helped her see an alternative and every break from her father's influence was an opportunity to build her own identity. Believing in Luffy and making the request to be accepted by him allowed both the literal and figurative chains to be broken.

I can see that, but that said, I could still see Yamato having some issues with self worth. Seeing as how she was alone most of the time, and the few she did befriend got killed, she had no one to really guide her in a way that helped mature her more.

Adding onto that, on TVTropes, I read this analysis:

• Manchild: Downplayed. Due to being raised by Kaido among an army of pirates on an isolated island, Yamato's maturity level doesn't match up with his age. He often acts like a young teenager, complete with an explosive temper and general social awkwardness, despite being 28 years old. Yamato's relationship with his hero Kozuki Oden is like a grown man playing pretend, only occasionally sobering up and returning to reality in moments of great import.

And that helped put it into further perspective for me. It made me realize Yamato doesn’t act mature enough. It's prob another reason why Oda didn’t have Yamato join now: she’s not mature enough. Chopper arguably acts more mature than Yamato.

It's just that an explosive temper + general social awkwardness + acting like a 13 year old impersonating their favorite superhero prob isn’t the best sort of circumstances for someone to join the crew. If someone joins, they need to be a mature team-player, not an immature temper-tantrum giver. So that in mind, it makes me wonder if her Wano stay will really do wonders to mature her.

 

[RaisinRisin]

Considering how Yamato talked about wanting to be accepted more, is it?

I should have mentioned in my other post, Yamato seems to be a version of the old trope where a father who wanted a son raises the daughter to be the son he always wanted, instead. It's a reoccurring theme throughout OP how important it is to have people with whom you belong. In rare cases (like with Sanji and for Robin when her mom was away) where people have abusive or neglectful caregivers, they can find new family instead).