One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[nik87]

@Hannibal Psyche All nice and good. Can you picture a scenario where things dont happen as you think?

He will be able to beat them all eventually. But, will he? IMO, he wont. He doesnt need to do anything regarding Big Mom anymore, he got from her what he needed. After he beats Kaido she surely will have doubts if she can take him on like before.
Also, Luffy is not Roger, he does things his own way and turns people into allies. Im sure we all considered the supernovas as opponents and look how many already turned into allies without even going against Luffy.
Can you picture one Yonko taking the other out, without Luffy even being present?
There are many possibilities how it all can play out.
If he has to beat every major character then One piece needs at least 20 years more.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Hannibal Psyche All nice and good. Can you picture a scenario where things dont happen as you think?

It's not as I think, it's what the Manga says.

 

[nik87]

It's not as I think, it's what the Manga says.

Manga said that Fujitora thinks Luffy can beat Admirals and Yonkos. Manga said Luffy wouldn't run away anymore. Manga said FI will feel BM's wrath...
I think you are in for a surprise how it will turn out.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

He doesnt need to do anything regarding Big Mom anymore, he got from her what he needed. After he beats Kaido she surely will have doubts if she can take him on like before.

When Luffy said runaway, you need to take into consideration the context. He said he doesn't need to run for reasons he ran at Sabaody. He's proven that as he held his own against Fujitora. He doesn't need to run out of helplessness anymore, he only needs run out of necessity. He's not running from Big Mom from fear, he's running because he's priority right now is Kaido.

He said he will return to Big Mom, so it means he will. He has unfinished business there, thus the reason it ended the way it did.

Manga said that Fujitora thinks Luffy can beat Admirals and Yonkos.

He said he has the strength, not the experience. He's become a lot experienced just facing Katakuri and this experience. He's matured.

It's not been disproved that he can't take on the Emperors.

 

[TrueRaiKage]

@Lexusflame @nik87 .......great points....

However I think you both missed the point. The storyline could absolutey continue without having witnessed the greatest part of this arc which was MVP BROOKE!!! Sadly we could have totally gotten a great flashback and handled that or they could have been on Zou or the voice of all things could have bypassed the RP.

Long story short the RP are not a good enough argument for the year long fuckery that has been an arc called WCI......side note you two just said losing Jinbe & the damage the TS took were worth the RP rubbing. REALLY!?!?

 

[nik87]

Ok, to avoid pointless discussion for who knows which time lets just wait it out and see.
When i said run away i meant Katakuri. He literally ran away from fight with him. There was no Nami to stall the fight for 11 hours like in Crackers case.
He wont return to Tottoland for the same reason he wont return to Fishman island - he was there already.
We literally saw that he has no strength to deal with a Yonko and he still isnt strong enough after 2 marathons vs Cracker and Katakuri.
Time will tell, my guess is that out of 4 Yonkos he will beat only 2 - Kaido and BB. From admirals he wont beat any of them, he will beat only current fleet admiral - Akainu.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

He wont return to Tottoland for the same reason he wont return to Fishman island - he was there already.

Just to say, it does say Luffy will return to Fishman Island too.

 

[nik87]

Just to say, it does say Luffy will return to Fishman Island too.

Does it say that he will return or that it will be destroyed by Luffy's hands?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Does it say that he will return or that it will be destroyed by Luffy's hands?

Well, how can you destroy a country by your hands if you're not there?

Surely, it's reasonable to assume that if Fishman Island is to be destroyed by his hands, he'd be returning there.

 

[M3J]

The Pirate King must defeat the Admirals who get in his way, and also defeat the Emperors who own the Poneglyph, otherwise, it's impossible.

The Pirate King does not need to defeat the Yonkou, he only needs to get the rubbings of Poneglyphs, which Brooke managed to do. If defeating the Yonkou was necessary, why would Usopp say Luffy didn't have to fight Kaidou and Big Mom, and Luffy didn't argue back that he had to? As you said, we don't know how Roger got to the Poneglyphs or whether he beat big Mom and Kaidou at all.

Can you tell me for sure how Roger got those Poneglyphs and what happened on his journey, and back it up with manga? Can you tell me how he became the Pirate King? Or how he and Whitebeard fought and how despite being the biggest rivals for each other, they were still friends to the point that Roger wanted to tell Whitebeard how to get to Raftel and about D?

I mean, for all we know, Roger never really fought the two Emperors and managed to get away, while Luffy actually has to fight them because they learned from their mistakes with Roger. Or, it could be vice versa, Roger fought but Luffy doesn't have to fight.

Manga said that Fujitora thinks Luffy can beat Admirals and Yonkos. Manga said Luffy wouldn't run away anymore. Manga said FI will feel BM's wrath...
I think you are in for a surprise how it will turn out.

The manga didn't say that as a fact, but it presented to us Fujitora's opinions and views. Most things characters say or think aren't facts, but points of view. If a character says he thinks Luffy's the strongest, that's not really a manga fact. It just means out of all the people the character has seen (which could be 3, 5, or 20), Luffy was the strongest. If the same character who saw a Yonkou fight with all his power saw Luffy fight with all his power and say Luffy would likely win against the Yonkou, that'd be more of a fact because he saw both characters' power with his own eyes.

Context also matters. When Luffy said he wouldn't run away anymore, what did he mean by that? Luffy didn't run away per se against Katakuri, whereas he had to run from Big Mom because they planned on tackling Kaidou first, and he couldn't afford to take her on at that moment. Did he mean he wouldn't run away against a tough opponent when his loved ones were in danger, or did he mean he wouldn't run away regardless?

Didn't the manga show us Big Mom directing her wrath on Luffy instead at his request?

It's not been disproved that he can't take on the Emperors.

It has. When he and Sanji couldn't hurt Big Mom, and his Kong Punch couldn't do anything to her, for one. Secondly, it took a lot for him to beat Cracker, and he was pushed past his limit against Katakuri. And unless either are stronger than Big Mom, it shows he's not ready for her.

From there, one can assume he can't take on other Yonkou as well, given the stalemate is due to the amount of damage they'd take fighting one another and being easy picking for the next enemy. Plus, from what we saw of Kaidou, Luffy definitely can't damage him if he can't hurt Big Mom.

 

[nik87]

The manga didn't say that as a fact, but it presented to us Fujitora's opinions and views.

I am perfectly aware of that. I listed things which "manga said" and those things HP takes as facts. All 3 of the examples are shown to be untrue.
Luffy ran away since he was not able to beat Katakuri at that point. His main point of not running away anymore was that he needed to get stronger so he doesnt have to run away when facing strong opponents. He knew how Katakuris ability worked and still couldnt do anything so he decided to run away.

@Hannibal Psyche How do u expect him to actually destroy entire island? He has no such power. Its obvious that something else will be involved - an ancient weapon operated/commanded by Luffy is still destroying FI by Luffy's hands even tho he's not there. You lack imagination.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The Pirate King does not need to defeat the Yonkou, he only needs to get the rubbings of Poneglyphs, which Brooke managed to do. If defeating the Yonkou was necessary, why would Usopp say Luffy didn't have to fight Kaidou and Big Mom, and Luffy didn't argue back that he had to? As you said, we don't know how Roger got to the Poneglyphs or whether he beat big Mom and Kaidou at all.

Can you tell me for sure how Roger got those Poneglyphs and what happened on his journey, and back it up with manga? Can you tell me how he became the Pirate King? Or how he and Whitebeard fought and how despite being the biggest rivals for each other, they were still friends to the point that Roger wanted to tell Whitebeard how to get to Raftel and about D?

I mean, for all we know, Roger never really fought the two Emperors and managed to get away, while Luffy actually has to fight them because they learned from their mistakes with Roger. Or, it could be vice versa, Roger fought but Luffy doesn't have to fight.

He did, that's why he was known as the strongest. I can show you if you want. it's weird how suddenly Whitebeard has become a thing even on reddit, lol.

 

[Kuza]

Bare in mind that while he has a Poneglyph, he's returning to fight her because you have to defeat the Emperors to prove your strength. It's not just gaining the Poneglyph.

Whitebeard was also considered closets to the Throne for being the strongest, not for Poneglyph. As far as we know, only Big Mom and Kaido own Road Poneglyph whcih implies Whitebeard didn't as Blackbeard who now owns that territory is not stated to have one.

It technically would be enough if he proves himself to be on par with other Yonkos and reach the Raftel first. Also I have a strong feeling that WB pirates do actually have the last road poneglyph that is "missing". Would his encounters with BM and Kaido prove him to be on par or at least near yonkos in terms of strength, influence and alliances? Maybe, depends on how his actions and those events are protraited and we will see soon what Morgans will write about Luffy x BM. Technically he can paint it as 6 SHs came right into her castle in the middle of her territory, rekt 2 of her commanders, starved he to near death and were responsible for destruction of multiple Islands including her main island or in even worse light for BM pirates. On top of that former shichibukai have joined the crew and there is also a fleet, kind of possible to put SH on the same level as yonkos in the eyes of public and other pirates which is (recognition) kind of a key together with obtaining One Piece to become PK.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Hannibal Psyche How do u expect him to actually destroy entire island? He has no such power. Its obvious that something else will be involved - an ancient weapon operated/commanded by Luffy is still destroying FI by Luffy's hands even tho he's not there. You lack imagination.

Nothing to do with lacking imagination, it's what the Manga says.

We have no idea how strong he'll be by then or by what means it'd be destroyed, but all we know is, it'd be by his hands as the prophecy foretells.

Spoiler

The Viz state he will bring ruin to Fishman Island and he's in the vision, so it does imply he will be there. Could be during a fight or of his own volition.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Nothing to do with lacking imagination, it's what the Manga says.

We have no idea how strong he'll be by then or by what means it'd be destroyed, but all we know is, it'd be by his hands as the prophecy foretells.

Spoiler

The Viz state he will bring ruin to Fishman Island and he's in the vision, so it does imply he will be there. Could be during a fight or of his own volition.

Theory:

Fact- from what I see in the panel, it looks like she saw Luffy standing in front of a huge fire, presumably fish an island.

What if it was some sort of explosion to launch fishman island to the surface? That would follow with it being “destroyed” by Luffy if he caused the launch. It’s a bit of a stretch, no pun intended but it’s a funny one lol!, but possible I guess... as I write this I feel less confident about it...
Theory: well more of a question. What if it wasn’t Luffy she saw? Like Bentham, or Gol D Roger?

It’s either Not Luffy or the prophecy is out of context...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Yea you do lack imagination or maybe you don't speak native English. The phrase "by your hands" means "by your actions". It does not literally mean he will use his palm and fingers to do it. If someone were to in real life plant a bomb then remote detonate it from another town, people would still say others died "at their hands". I'm guessing your not native.

If you read my post carefully, I said we don't know by what means implying we don't know by what actions exactly.

We have no idea how strong he'll be by then or by what means it'd be destroyed, but all we know is,

I understand English perfectly, it seems more a case of you failing to read my post carefully, but people do make mistakes.

And as I said before, it has nothing to do with imagination, this isn't a competition to figure out the 101 ways (figure of speech, not literal) in which Fishman Island can be destroyed by Luffy, it's really just stating the facts.

 

[nik87]

it has nothing to do with imagination

The lack of imagination is that you cant picture FI being destroyed without Luffy being there and the only fact is that prophecy doesnt specify if he is there or not. "By his hands" doesnt place Luffy on the FI, as it was explained by @Darknos . Its an assumption, which ofc isnt a fact.

 

[M3J]

I am perfectly aware of that. I listed things which "manga said" and those things HP takes as facts. All 3 of the examples are shown to be untrue.
Luffy ran away since he was not able to beat Katakuri at that point. His main point of not running away anymore was that he needed to get stronger so he doesnt have to run away when facing strong opponents. He knew how Katakuris ability worked and still couldnt do anything so he decided to run away.

@Hannibal Psyche How do u expect him to actually destroy entire island? He has no such power. Its obvious that something else will be involved - an ancient weapon operated/commanded by Luffy is still destroying FI by Luffy's hands even tho he's not there. You lack imagination.

It was directed at anyone, not just you. My bad for not making that clear.

He did, but he also returned to the fight, thus not running away anymore. Against powerful (likely even stronger than him) opponents like Fujitora and Big Mom, Luffy had to run away because of the situations.

He did, that's why he was known as the strongest. I can show you if you want. it's weird how suddenly Whitebeard has become a thing even on reddit, lol.

But where is the proof? If people heard he went into Big Mom and Kaidou's territories and made it out alive, then they'd assume he's strong to have survived them both when in reality, both captains were too distracted to deal with Roger.

Though this is One Piece and not Naruto, Kakashi and Guy's rivalry was hyped up as well until we learned that they competed in different ways that weren't even close to combat. But yeah, feel free to show me.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The lack of imagination is that you cant picture FI being destroyed without Luffy being there and the only fact is that prophecy doesnt specify if he is there or not. "By his hands" doesnt place Luffy on the FI, as it was explained by @Darknos . Its an assumption, which ofc isnt a fact.

Not a lack of imagination as I sadd, it's fact. Madame Shirley pictured him there.

And your point about Lufffy not returning to Fishman Island is wrong on a 2nd count, he promised to take Shirahoshi to the surface, so he does have to return back there.

 

[nik87]

Not a lack of imagination as I sadd, it's fact. Madame Shirley pictured him there.

This is lack of imagination as well. If it was a fact we would see examples of your imagination in this case but you offered none.
Taking Shirahoshi to surface doesnt place Luffy on FI same as "destruction of FI by his hands" doesnt place him there.