One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[McNuss]

We already know what it is.

Roger told the world it's treasure, therefore, that's why they're all going for it. Not everyone cares about history and such. If people cared about history, they'd all be studying Poneglyphs. They're only going because they think it's wealth.

This is why Roger is very intelligent, he called it treasure. Most Pirates think it's just gold and wealth because Roger was rich, but it isn't that, it's the history of the world.

Buggy consumed his DF in the early parts of the Grand Line, in Paradise which is why the crew aren't too sure DFs are a real thing. DFs are rare in paradise, they're not in the New World.

Buggy did say he wants to become Pirate King, thus his response to Luffy being, if you're going to be Pirate King, I'll be Pirate God.

Being Pirate King is about acquiring the World's greatest treasure which is why he says all treasure belongs to him which includes One Piece.

Spoiler

Even though he cried at Roger's death, it doesn't change his motivations. He's seeking to be Pirate King like every other Pirate.

--- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2018, Original Post Date: May 19, 2018 ---

Well, that's literally what the Manga says.

There are only about 30 and 9 contain the history of the world.

Each Poneglyph is a cube meaning it has 6 faces and there are 9 important ones meaning potentially 54 pages worth of content at the best. If we assume the top and bottom are empty, it means 4 faces meaning 36 pages worth of History. Either way, the One Piece is those 9 Poneglyphs.

In Germany, we would say: "If you become Pirate King, I will eat a broom." But we never actually eat brooms. That's how I interpret it, as a boast. Buggy never made any moves towards One Piece.

The other statement is also more of a generalisation, because it is impossible to collect every treasure. Anyone with a collection hobby will claim that they want to collect all of whatever they collect, and in many instances this is impossible and they are still gonna say that.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

In Germany, we would say: "If you become Pirate King, I will eat a broom." But we never actually eat brooms. That's how I interpret it, as a boast. Buggy never made any moves towards One Piece.

The other statement is also more of a generalisation, because it is impossible to collect every treasure. Anyone with a collection hobby will claim that they want to collect all of whatever they collect, and in many instances this is impossible and they are still gonna say that.

He did make moves towards One Piece.

To claim one will be Pirate King is to say one will find One Piece.

Why else would he be angry at Luffy claiming that he'd be the one to find the One Piece? It's because he aims to find the One Piece.

It's like saying that Zoro aiming to claim Mihawk's head doesn't mean he wants to be the World's Strongest Swordsman.

The "If you become Pirate King, I will eat a broom" is also a flawed analogy. Analogies are supposed to to mimic what they're explaining in a different but identically creative way. The eat broom part doesn't have any similarity with becoming Pirate God; eating a broom is an action, becoming a Pirate God is undertaking a status; vast difference. All you really did here was change the sentence into something completely different.

One Piece is a treasure and he said he aims to take every treasure. The claim to find One Piece is the claim to be Pirate King.

Big Mom also wants the One Piece, it would be like claiming she wants One Piece and saying she doesn't want to be Pirate King because that really doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Hrathgrath]

There is.

Why would Buggy need to look for One Piece if he already knows where it is? It's because he never went to Raftel.

The claim to be Pirate King is more or less the claim to find One Piece, that much is a fact, those 2 things are inseparable and are one & the same thing.

If claiming to be Pirate King isn't the same claim as finding One Piece, then why is it that after Luffy said he'll be Pirate King... Buggy responds with the World's treasures will be his? It's because they're related and finding One Piece is the same as becoming Pirate King.

He said all of the world's treasures will be his. One Piece is the greatest of treasures.

Buggy even attempted to double-cross Roger. He stole the Devil fruit and tried to switch it with a fake so the crew would think it really wasn't a Devil fruit. This was a scheme he pulled in order to sell it because it was worth 100m.

Buggy's motivation is treasures. If he'd been to Raftel, he'd definitely know where it was. He's cunning and would do anything for Pirate, even cheat his comrade.



That's just an excuse. Doesn't have to be their job to know, they would simply know because that is where the One Piece is. The World's greatest treasure.

If they were there, they'd know the way and Buggy would already be Pirate King.

The only evidence that Buggy didn’t go to Raftel is the fact that he hasn’t returned, or shared his knowledge of Raftel? I’m sure he knows that to admit something like that would likely be a death sentence. I mean Robin got a huge bounty just for being able to READ the phoneglyphs, and saying he knows the true history wouldn’t help Buggy find treasure. It may help him win some notoriety but I think the target it would paint on his back would be MICH bigger. I know it’s generally accepted that to be the pirate king you have to find Raftel, but it was just the notiriety of finding it that gave Roger the title, and I think Buggy, if he does indeed know about what’s at Raftel, would try to become pirate king by amassing enough “rep” to take the title. Because if there’s not gold and jewels at Raftel then he would have no reason to go there.

I think the Ancient Kingdom is One Piece itself. It was always interesting to me that the Ohara Professor was shot before he could get the name of the Ancient Kingdom out. Seemed to me like it's a name the WG's afraid of people knowing and there's nothing the government fears more than One Piece. But on a side note, Raftel must be the mother of all hard-to-find places if nobody's even just accidentally found it in 800+ years.

That’s a good idea! Got me thinking. The smiths at Wano made he phoneglyphs, right? So what if the name of the kingdom is Wanopisu, and wano is half of the island or something like that, and the other half is Pisu but was renamed Raftel or something like that. (wanopisu = one piece) just an idea..

We already know what it is.

Roger told the world it's treasure, therefore, that's why they're all going for it. Not everyone cares about history and such. If people cared about history, they'd all be studying Poneglyphs. They're only going because they think it's wealth.

This is why Roger is very intelligent, he called it treasure. Most Pirates think it's just gold and wealth because Roger was rich, but it isn't that, it's the history of the world.

Buggy consumed his DF in the early parts of the Grand Line, in Paradise which is why the crew aren't too sure DFs are a real thing. DFs are rare in paradise, they're not in the New World.

Buggy did say he wants to become Pirate King, thus his response to Luffy being, if you're going to be Pirate King, I'll be Pirate God.

Being Pirate King is about acquiring the World's greatest treasure which is why he says all treasure belongs to him which includes One Piece.

Spoiler

Even though he cried at Roger's death, it doesn't change his motivations. He's seeking to be Pirate King like every other Pirate.

--- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2018, Original Post Date: May 19, 2018 ---

Well, that's literally what the Manga says.

There are only about 30 and 9 contain the history of the world.

Each Poneglyph is a cube meaning it has 6 faces and there are 9 important ones meaning potentially 54 pages worth of content at the best. If we assume the top and bottom are empty, it means 4 faces meaning 36 pages worth of History. Either way, the One Piece is those 9 Poneglyphs.

No offense meant. (You know your my boy!) but you have a habit of presenting your opinion as fact a lot. One piece has never been stated to be anything other than the (imho) intentially vague descriptor, “treasure”. Which could literally be ANYTHING. I mean one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

He did make moves towards One Piece.

To claim one will be Pirate King is to say one will find One Piece.

Why else would he be angry at Luffy claiming that he'd be the one to find the One Piece? It's because he aims to find the One Piece.

It's like saying that Zoro aiming to claim Mihawk's head doesn't mean he wants to be the World's Strongest Swordsman.

The "If you become Pirate King, I will eat a broom" is also a flawed analogy. Analogies are supposed to to mimic what they're explaining in a different but identically creative way. The eat broom part doesn't have any similarity with becoming Pirate God; eating a broom is an action, becoming a Pirate God is undertaking a status; vast difference. All you really did here was change the sentence into something completely different.

One Piece is a treasure and he said he aims to take every treasure. The claim to find One Piece is the claim to be Pirate King.

Big Mom also wants the One Piece, it would be like claiming she wants One Piece and saying she doesn't want to be Pirate King because that really doesn't make any sense at all.

I think the idiom here is something like”if you’re the owner of this store than I’m the queen of England!” Basically Buggy thought what Luffy said was so ridiculous he may as well say something even MORE ridiculous. So the suggestion about the broom is valid. Along the same lines anyway. You accomplish something ridiculous like becoming pirate king(implying that that particular person is unlikely to accomplish it), then I will do something equally ridiculous like eating a broom, because neither thing is likely to happen.

--- Double Post Merged, May 20, 2018 ---

I would like to add that even though you take a cruise to Hawaii doesn’t mean you could lead the boat there yourself the next time. Basically Niether Shanks nor Buggy were the navigator or the Captain so the likelihood of them knowing how to get back is seriously unlikely (assuming they went in the first place).

--- Double Post Merged, May 20, 2018 ---

Franky maybe? Or possibly Chopper in monster or defense point?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The only evidence that Buggy didn’t go to Raftel is the fact that he hasn’t returned, or shared his knowledge of Raftel? I’m sure he knows that to admit something like that would likely be a death sentence. I mean Robin got a huge bounty just for being able to READ the phoneglyphs, and saying he knows the true history wouldn’t help Buggy find treasure. It may help him win some notoriety but I think the target it would paint on his back would be MICH bigger. I know it’s generally accepted that to be the pirate king you have to find Raftel, but it was just the notiriety of finding it that gave Roger the title, and I think Buggy, if he does indeed know about what’s at Raftel, would try to become pirate king by amassing enough “rep” to take the title. Because if there’s not gold and jewels at Raftel then he would have no reason to go there.

Says the guy who admitted to being an Apprentice on Roger's ship; he really doesn't show he cares. He's been doing the opposite, he's been trying to make his name heard as opposed to staying behind the scenes.

The fact is if he'd been to Raftel, he'd know what One Piece was and he'd know where it is.

He's already admitted to wanting to be Pirate King by claiming he'd be the one to find One Piece.

And he is amassing a huge crew. This was shown after Dressrosa.

No offense meant. (You know your my boy!) but you have a habit of presenting your opinion as fact a lot. One piece has never been stated to be anything other than the (imho) intentially vague descriptor, “treasure”. Which could literally be ANYTHING. I mean one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

Just re-read what Tamago said.

1. There are 4 Road Poneglyphs that lead to Raftel and 9 Poneglyphs at Raftel which can only be read if one reaches Raftel.
   Spoiler

   
2. These 9 Poneglyphs reveal the secret of the World which Kaido tried to learn by interrogating Oden.
   Spoiler

   

This is the path to Pirate King and thus the reason the Emperors all fight each other to gain possession of the Poneglyphs so they can get to Raftel and read the 9 Poneglyphs which contain the secret of the world to become Pirate King.

Those 9 Poneglyph are the only reason going to Raftel is important which is why they're distinguished from the rest.

I'm giving you facts here, not opinion, huge distinction.

I think the idiom here is something like”if you’re the owner of this store than I’m the queen of England!” Basically Buggy thought what Luffy said was so ridiculous he may as well say something even MORE ridiculous. So the suggestion about the broom is valid. Along the same lines anyway. You accomplish something ridiculous like becoming pirate king(implying that that particular person is unlikely to accomplish it), then I will do something equally ridiculous like eating a broom, because neither thing is likely to happen.

Eating a broom is in no way similar, so it is invalid. All he did was swap a claim to status to claiming to perform an action. That is not how analogies or comparisons of equal meaning work.

The thing you're ironically misunderstanding here is it's because he also aims to be Pirate King that anyone achieving that status other than himself would mean he has to make claim to a higher status than Pirate King being Pirate God. He's not claiming Pirate King to be impossible, he's just saying it's for him to become and no one else.

 

[McNuss]

He did make moves towards One Piece.

To claim one will be Pirate King is to say one will find One Piece.

Why else would he be angry at Luffy claiming that he'd be the one to find the One Piece? It's because he aims to find the One Piece.

It's like saying that Zoro aiming to claim Mihawk's head doesn't mean he wants to be the World's Strongest Swordsman.

The "If you become Pirate King, I will eat a broom" is also a flawed analogy. Analogies are supposed to to mimic what they're explaining in a different but identically creative way. The eat broom part doesn't have any similarity with becoming Pirate God; eating a broom is an action, becoming a Pirate God is undertaking a status; vast difference. All you really did here was change the sentence into something completely different.

Eating a broom is not an action. Brooms are not edible, so it is impossible, and that is exactly the point of the saying.

He got angry because he knew the real Pirate King, so some random newbie claiming to become one offended him.

One Piece is a treasure and he said he aims to take every treasure. The claim to find One Piece is the claim to be Pirate King.

Big Mom also wants the One Piece, it would be like claiming she wants One Piece and saying she doesn't want to be Pirate King because that really doesn't make any sense at all.

If I were to collect, let's say, stamps, I would likely say "I want to collect every stamp", fully aware that this is actually impossible because there are too many and some are way too expensive. Same with Buggy. There are too many treasures to collect them all, and some are to difficult to find, at least for him.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Eating a broom is not an action.

Dude, EATING is an action.

It's a verb. A verb is a doing word or an action.

so it is impossible, and that is exactly the point of the saying.

No, finding One Piece is not impossible, it's just difficult.

He got angry because he knew the real Pirate King, so some random newbie claiming to become one offended him.

Not true, if that were the case, he'd have referenced Roger and claimed Luffy's statement was blasphemous.

In fact, he said if Luffy would be Pirate King, he would be Pirate God.

He's angry because Luffy is trying to accomplish his own goal.

He's being completely self-centred here, he's not caring at all about Roger or bringing him into this.

Everything he says revolves around himself.

It's why he said the World's treasures will be his, he's claiming he'll find the One Piece.

He's not even making it out be impossible if he's saying the One Piece will be his.

If I were to collect, let's say, stamps, I would likely say "I want to collect every stamp", fully aware that this is actually impossible because there are too many and some are way too expensive. Same with Buggy. There are too many treasures to collect them all, and some are to difficult to find, at least for him.

Nope, you completely have it out of context.

He said he will be the one to find One Piece and the fact he said he will be Pirate God if Luffy is Pirate King is more or less him confirming his own desire to find it.

He more or less says One Piece will be his.

 

[Freid]

That’s a good idea! Got me thinking. The smiths at Wano made he phoneglyphs, right? So what if the name of the kingdom is Wanopisu, and wano is half of the island or something like that, and the other half is Pisu but was renamed Raftel or something like that. (wanopisu = one piece) just an idea..

Pretty interesting thought. I kinda get 'Themyscira' vibes from Raftel. The WW lore has it a bit different but in the movie it was basically hidden by some kind of illusory barrier that unless you know the exact coordinates, you probably won't find it. Raftel might also not have a magnetic signature for whatever reason.

And while we're still spit balling I'll just go ahead and add that maybe the founders of the WG were once members of the Ancient Civilization who rejected and rebelled against the rest of the country for political reasons.

 

[roggie]

And what about Bege and the Strawhats defeating Big Mom with a devil fruit (feeding her with a second one)? They should have gone for that. Better than any poison IMO

 

[Hrathgrath]

And what about Bege and the Strawhats defeating Big Mom with a devil fruit (feeding her with a second one)? They should have gone for that. Better than any poison IMO

Very smart! Seems like a very James Bond villain way to go about it. And by that I mean extravagant(because of the cost of the fruit) and overthought because you would think a gun would be easier). Having said that, it would seem to be the most likely to work! To me it would open up two possibilities. One being other than what we’ve heard, we’ve never actually seen, or heard tale of someone eating two devil fruit and dying. So it is feasible that it would just make big mom stronger! Or of course it would kill her which would be an awesome and probably unique assassination method.

Says the guy who admitted to being an Apprentice on Roger's ship; he really doesn't show he cares. He's been doing the opposite, he's been trying to make his name heard as opposed to staying behind the scenes.

The fact is if he'd been to Raftel, he'd know what One Piece was and he'd know where it is.

He's already admitted to wanting to be Pirate King by claiming he'd be the one to find One Piece.

And he is amassing a huge crew. This was shown after Dressrosa.



Just re-read what Tamago said.

1. There are 4 Road Poneglyphs that lead to Raftel and 9 Poneglyphs at Raftel which can only be read if one reaches Raftel.
   Spoiler

   
2. These 9 Poneglyphs reveal the secret of the World which Kaido tried to learn by interrogating Oden.
   Spoiler

   

This is the path to Pirate King and thus the reason the Emperors all fight each other to gain possession of the Poneglyphs so they can get to Raftel and read the 9 Poneglyphs which contain the secret of the world to become Pirate King.

Those 9 Poneglyph are the only reason going to Raftel is important which is why they're distinguished from the rest.

I'm giving you facts here, not opinion, huge distinction.



Eating a broom is in no way similar, so it is invalid. All he did was swap a claim to status to claiming to perform an action. That is not how analogies or comparisons of equal meaning work.

The thing you're ironically misunderstanding here is it's because he also aims to be Pirate King that anyone achieving that status other than himself would mean he has to make claim to a higher status than Pirate King being Pirate God. He's not claiming Pirate King to be impossible, he's just saying it's for him to become and no one else.

While he does admit to being on his crew, he doesn’t admit to having been to Raftel or knowing what one piece is. It’s likely that Oda just didn’t think that far ahead when he wrote Buggy’s initial arc. He is human after all.
As far as one piece and what it truly is, all Tamago said here was that the phoneglyphs and both a map to Raftel and a true history of the world. And since making it to Raftel is the thing that allows someone to claim the title of pirate king, the phoneglyphs are “the path to becoming pirate king.” At no point does he say the true history is the Treasure of One Piece. And even if he had, since he hasn’t been to Raftel, he is just speculating anyway! Now I don’t doubt that the history is laid out at Raftel, but even that is just my belief. Imho, I can’t see how any amount of gold and jewels could compare with an entire city made of gold in the sky...
On the whole eating a broom thing, I don’t think it was meant as a literal statement. Like I said before, it was meant as an idiom, not a bet. The thing with Buggy to Luffy, I won’t even speculate cause I honestly don’t care at this point ;-) lol!

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

While he does admit to being on his crew, he doesn’t admit to having been to Raftel or knowing what one piece is. It’s likely that Oda just didn’t think that far ahead when he wrote Buggy’s initial arc. He is human after all.

He doesn't need to admit anything, fact is you tried to make out like he was hiding and trying to stay off the radar and you're making excuses here.

How convenient it is to speak on Oda's behalf that he didn't think that far ahead just to validate your theory.

The fact is if he was one of those who went to Raftel, he'd know what One Piece is, that much is a fact.

As far as one piece and what it truly is, all Tamago said here was that the phoneglyphs and both a map to Raftel and a true history of the world. And since making it to Raftel is the thing that allows someone to claim the title of pirate king, the phoneglyphs are “the path to becoming pirate king.” At no point does he say the true history is the Treasure of One Piece.

Wrong.

The Manga says:

1. Whoever finds One Piece becomes Pirate King.
   Spoiler

   
2. Whoever conquers the Grand Line is Pirate King.
   Spoiler

   

All of these things are more or less synonyms of each other:

1. One cannot be Pirate King without One Piece.
2. One cannot find the One Piece without conquering the Emperors and Admirals.
3. One cannot find the One Piece without gathering the Poneglyph.
4. One cannot head to Raftel without the Poneglyph.

The denominator is Raftel whether you want to be in denial or not.

The only thing that is at Raftel is the Real Ponglyph essentially making it the One Piece.

The very fact the Poneglyph is what all the Emperors fight over more or less seals the deal that One Piece is the Real Poneglyph because that is the only reason they all want to go to Raftel.

Spoiler

Hell, the entire reason Kaido tried to squeeze information out of Oden was because Oden also knew the secret of the world which was how Roger became Pirate King.

I don't know if you've tried putting 1 and 1 together, but you do realise the Emperors are at a stalemate, thus the reason why there's been no Pirate King besides Roger (bar Whitebeard who didn't care about becoming King) and thus why Kaido is having to attempt to use underhanded tactics to become Pirate King or learn of that information because he's not powerful enough to acquire all the Poneglyphs for himself.

On the whole eating a broom thing, I don’t think it was meant as a literal statement. Like I said before, it was meant as an idiom, not a bet. The thing with Buggy to Luffy, I won’t even speculate cause I honestly don’t care at this point ;-) lol!

Ironically, what Buggy was saying wasn't an idiom or remotely a bet. I'm sure you know what an idiom is and a bet is an if statement that demands a a sacrificial offering should the prediction not go in one's favour. Huge difference lol!

This isn't remotely a bet, this is a proclamation where there's no penalty, this is a proclamation of absoluteness. Hell, he says the World's greatest treasure would be his evidently claiming himself as future Pirate King. This isn't by any definition a bet.

The world's treasure is more or less the single greatest treasure, One Piece; synonymous with each other.

 

[Hrathgrath]

He doesn't need to admit anything, fact is you tried to make out like he was hiding and trying to stay off the radar and you're making excuses here.

How convenient it is to speak on Oda's behalf that he didn't think that far ahead just to validate your theory.

The fact is if he was one of those who went to Raftel, he'd know what One Piece is, that much is a fact.



Wrong.

The Manga says:

1. Whoever finds One Piece becomes Pirate King.
   Spoiler

   
2. Whoever conquers the Grand Line is Pirate King.
   Spoiler

   

All of these things are more or less synonyms of each other:

1. One cannot be Pirate King without One Piece.
2. One cannot find the One Piece without conquering the Emperors and Admirals.
3. One cannot find the One Piece without gathering the Poneglyph.
4. One cannot head to Raftel without the Poneglyph.

The denominator is Raftel whether you want to be in denial or not.

The only thing that is at Raftel is the Real Ponglyph essentially making it the One Piece.

The very fact the Poneglyph is what all the Emperors fight over more or less seals the deal that One Piece is the Real Poneglyph because that is the only reason they all want to go to Raftel.

Spoiler

Hell, the entire reason Kaido tried to squeeze information out of Oden was because Oden also knew the secret of the world which was how Roger became Pirate King.

I don't know if you've tried putting 1 and 1 together, but you do realise the Emperors are at a stalemate, thus the reason why there's been no Pirate King besides Roger (bar Whitebeard who didn't care about becoming King) and thus why Kaido is having to attempt to use underhanded tactics to become Pirate King or learn of that information because he's not powerful enough to acquire all the Poneglyphs for himself.



Ironically, what Buggy was saying wasn't an idiom or remotely a bet. I'm sure you know what an idiom is and a bet is an if statement that demands a a sacrificial offering should the prediction not go in one's favour. Huge difference lol!

This isn't remotely a bet, this is a proclamation where there's no penalty, this is a proclamation of absoluteness. Hell, he says the World's greatest treasure would be his evidently claiming himself as future Pirate King. This isn't by any definition a bet.

The world's treasure is more or less the single greatest treasure, One Piece; synonymous with each other.

As far as Oda is concerned, you may try to devalue the point by saying it’s “convenient” but as I said, he is human, and as such may not have put information early in the story that wouldn’t jive with info later in the story. Haki is a perfect example of this. We never see haki, just it’s effects, until after the timeskip.
Now like I said, I don’t doubt that the true history of the world is at Raftel, I personally believe that is what one piece is. What I have been saying is that other than speculation, based on evidence or not, no one really knows what is actually going to be found at Raftel. Hell, for thousands of years humans KNEW the earth was flat. Basically while one persons belief may be more likely than another’s, closing your mind to the possibility of being wrong is ALWAYS a mistake. That’s all I’m trying to say.
P.S.
I don’t trust much of anything 100%.Especally when it comes to translations in ANY language but moreso in Japanese to English. Reason being there is so so much that doesn’t directly translate, you have a literal translation and a translation based on what the speaker/writer was trying to say (or the point he was trying to express). I only have a couple years of Japanese under my belt so I can’t say one way or the other, but I generally take what is translated into English, as far as Manga, with a grain of salt. “The greatest single treasure” makes me think of this in particular because it makes it sound like there is one item only there, and if Raftel is everything we think it is, then that’s unlikely to be a single item. Even if it’s a phoneglyph, then everything else at Raftel would have to be worthless or at the very least unrelated to one piece. Unless Raftel itself is one piece, and everything contained on the island would be the treasure, which would still not be a single item. I’ve gone and confused myself...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

As far as Oda is concerned, you may try to devalue the point by saying it’s “convenient” but as I said, he is human, and as such may not have put information early in the story that wouldn’t jive with info later in the story. Haki is a perfect example of this. We never see haki, just it’s effects, until after the timeskip.

It is convenient. You're not looking at evidence and blindly claiming human-error without getting your facts straight for one.

And the Haki is a far from perfect example:

1. It was used in chapter 1 if you're not aware.
2. And Smoker, a Logia without weakness and low ranked was released early on in the story implying there'd have been a method to fight him.

So, moot point. Also, Haki is not discernible to people who can't use Haki, it's only discerned by those who can use it.

Now like I said, I don’t doubt that the true history of the world is at Raftel, I personally believe that is what one piece is. What I have been saying is that other than speculation, based on evidence or not, no one really knows what is actually going to be found at Raftel. Hell, for thousands of years humans KNEW the earth was flat. Basically while one persons belief may be more likely than another’s, closing your mind to the possibility of being wrong is ALWAYS a mistake. That’s all I’m trying to say.

We do know. Just read the end of Marineford and Whitebeard literally told us.

Look what Whitebeard said:

• Someone will arise who will challenge the world and shoulder the centuries of History when One Piece is Found.

Sounds very much like the Poneglyph, so I really don't see how you can really argue against it.

The very fact it's called One Piece makes sense; Poneglyphs joined together to give an entire account of the Void Century, thus the name One Piece. Not sure why this wouldn't make sense to anyone, but each to their own.

I don’t trust much of anything 100%.Especally when it comes to translations in ANY language but moreso in Japanese to English.

Doesn't mean we can't be correct about something especially when the evidence is consistent.

What you're essentially saying here is unless you're Japanese and reading the raw, nothing can be understood. By that logic, then I guess you have 0 opinion on the series and nothing you say should be taken seriously.

To me, this is just an excuse. Some details may not be translated directly, but the overall message is well conveyed, and this is the Official translation.

All you've really done is dismiss every piece of pertinent evidence for whatever reason, and with that said, perhaps drawing the curtains here is for the best.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Well you’re correct on the Japanese part. Unless you are a Japanese speaker, probably native would be best, trusting a translation 100% is folly. Not saying we can’t be right, but in small details in translation, like a particular choice of words that can have a major difference if read a certain way, we can’t be completely sure. I mean we have to reword ourselves constantly irl to make ourselves understood even on the damned message boards!
I do have opinions on it all, but I’m not so arrogant as to dismiss the possibility that my conclusions may be wrong.

“Shouldering centuries of history” is a reference to something. Like I said, I agree that one piece very likely is basically a “history book”. But no character has come out and said, “one piece is a massive phoneglyph containing the void century, and that phoneglyph is at Raftel!” Yes there is evidence towards that, and I personally think it’s something like that, but I’m also open to it being something else. I personally like the idea of, and I just thought of this, Raftel being the capitol City of the ancient kingdom that was the enemy of the WG, frozen in time like Hyrule in Wind Waker, waiting for someone to awaken it. Which would fit into the evidence as well. The history would be there, because they would have lived it, and the WG would have a major reason to fear someone getting there and awakening it.

Honestly, correct me if I’m wrong, but the major difference between us on a lot of this isn’t the facts, but the fact that you are supremely confident that you have reached the correct conclusion, and to me I’ll NEVER be supremely confident in ANYTHING. Sure things are more likely than others, but I’ll never take away the chance that I could learn more about something and close the possibility that I could have reached the wrong conclusion. Anywho, respond if you must but I’m going to take your advice and drop it here.

 

[M3J]

And what about Bege and the Strawhats defeating Big Mom with a devil fruit (feeding her with a second one)? They should have gone for that. Better than any poison IMO

And where would they get a fruit to feed her with?

 

[Hrathgrath]

Good question, wonder if a SMILE would kill her...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well you’re correct on the Japanese part. Unless you are a Japanese speaker, probably native would be best, trusting a translation 100% is folly. Not saying we can’t be right, but in small details in translation, like a particular choice of words that can have a major difference if read a certain way, we can’t be completely sure. I mean we have to reword ourselves constantly irl to make ourselves understood even on the damned message boards!
I do have opinions on it all, but I’m not so arrogant as to dismiss the possibility that my conclusions may be wrong.

“Shouldering centuries of history” is a reference to something. Like I said, I agree that one piece very likely is basically a “history book”. But no character has come out and said, “one piece is a massive phoneglyph containing the void century, and that phoneglyph is at Raftel!” Yes there is evidence towards that, and I personally think it’s something like that, but I’m also open to it being something else. I personally like the idea of, and I just thought of this, Raftel being the capitol City of the ancient kingdom that was the enemy of the WG, frozen in time like Hyrule in Wind Waker, waiting for someone to awaken it. Which would fit into the evidence as well. The history would be there, because they would have lived it, and the WG would have a major reason to fear someone getting there and awakening it.

Honestly, correct me if I’m wrong, but the major difference between us on a lot of this isn’t the facts, but the fact that you are supremely confident that you have reached the correct conclusion, and to me I’ll NEVER be supremely confident in ANYTHING. Sure things are more likely than others, but I’ll never take away the chance that I could learn more about something and close the possibility that I could have reached the wrong conclusion. Anywho, respond if you must but I’m going to take your advice and drop it here.

Every translation more or less says the same thing, therefore it is consistent and therefore can be taken as reliable.

Your arrogance is more to do with the fact you're given evidence and you dismiss it for the sake of it.

I can provide 10 pieces of evidence that consistently prove my point, you can't even provide one other than deny for the sake of it and invoke one has to be Japanese to understand the story which is nonsensical.

Being confident about what one says comes from having consistent evidence to prove one's hypothesis, I have that otherwise I couldn't state it to be so. That isn't arrogance, that's just common sense. When data consistently proves an hypothesis, it's only reasonable to believe it. If a medicine was created to cure the common cold and it worked every-time, who is to then speculate that it doesn't work? That's folly.

I have a piece written 2 years ago about the One Piece, and the evidence even now confirms it, that's consistency because future chapters continue to prove my point. I'll give you an example of a claim I made in 2015.

And despite the fact it wasn't explicitly stated, it's confirmed in 2016 just by using reasonable and sensible deductions which is apparently not something you can do going by the fact that you're claiming things need be said explicitly.

What you're saying is... if something isn't said explicitly despite being implied, then one cannot understand; that only reflects poorly on you because that's absolutely false.

That's like saying if someone is crying for example, then it's unlikely that they're sad because they didn't explicitly state they're sad. If things need to be said explicitly, then I can only say I'm shocked.

It's possible to come to conclusions just from implications alone and tacit statements. If one requires things to be spelt out for them in order to be true or understood, then it's poor reasoning and poor comprehensive ability on that person.

Fact is whoever finds One Piece carries the history of the world with them, and thus, the only thing that gives any history in the story are the Poneglyphs which are at Raftel. You have no evidence to say otherwise other than baseless speculations at this point.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Every translation more or less says the same thing, therefore it is consistent and therefore can be taken as reliable.

Your arrogance is more to do with the fact you're given evidence and you dismiss it for the sake of it.

I can provide 10 pieces of evidence that consistently prove my point, you can't even provide one other than deny for the sake of it and invoke one has to be Japanese to understand the story which is nonsensical.

Being confident about what one says comes from having consistent evidence to prove one's hypothesis, I have that otherwise I couldn't state it to be so. That isn't arrogance, that's just common sense. When data consistently proves an hypothesis, it's only reasonable to believe it. If a medicine was created to cure the common cold and it worked every-time, who is to then speculate that it doesn't work? That's folly.

I have a piece written 2 years ago about the One Piece, and the evidence even now confirms it, that's consistency because future chapters continue to prove my point. I'll give you an example of a claim I made in 2015.

And despite the fact it wasn't explicitly stated, it's confirmed in 2016 just by using reasonable and sensible deductions which is apparently not something you can do going by the fact that you're claiming things need be said explicitly.

What you're saying is... if something isn't said explicitly despite being implied, then one cannot understand; that only reflects poorly on you because that's absolutely false.

That's like saying if someone is crying for example, then it's unlikely that they're sad because they didn't explicitly state they're sad. If things need to be said explicitly, then I can only say I'm shocked.

It's possible to come to conclusions just from implications alone and tacit statements. If one requires things to be spelt out for them in order to be true or understood, then it's poor reasoning and poor comprehensive ability on that person.

Fact is whoever finds One Piece carries the history of the world with them, and thus, the only thing that gives any history in the story are the Poneglyphs which are at Raftel. You have no evidence to say otherwise other than baseless speculations at this point.

I’m not dismissing evidence at all, just saying there are different ways to interpret it. Same with translations, especially Japanese because the language is so different from English because the culture is so different. All you have to do is look at google translations of Japanese to see that.

Which falls into the evidence given, yes I agree, for about the thousandth time, that it is very likely that one piece is likely the void century history. But it could also be a remaining city from the old civilization. Both things would work for the evidence.

Are you willing to admit that it is within the realm of possibility that One Piece could potentially be something more than a phoneglyph containing the void history?
Because it seems to me that you aren’t. I refuse to close my mind to the possibility to learn more about anything. I question myself more than anything. Probably why I’m atheist...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I’m not dismissing evidence at all, just saying there are different ways to interpret it. Same with translations, especially Japanese because the language is so different from English because the culture is so different. All you have to do is look at google translations of Japanese to see that.

That isn't true.

How do you know that Ace's father is Roger? Wait? We can't trust it because,,,? We're not fluent Japaneses speakers? Right.

You are dismissing it because you don't want to believe it.

It's now convenient to use the translation as an excuse.

With this rationale you're putting forward, nothing can be believed. Maybe Roger didn't die 24 years ago because we can't apparently believe what the Manga says due to "translation" issues.

You can go ahead and believe that.

Are you willing to admit that it is within the realm of possibility that One Piece could potentially be something more than a phoneglyph containing the void history?

Why would I do that when everything states so and implies so? Not logical at all.

Things are only in the realm of possibility when there are no hints towards a definite answer and that isn't the case.

Because it seems to me that you aren’t. I refuse to close my mind to the possibility to learn more about anything. I question myself more than anything. Probably why I’m atheist...

Surprised. I'm atheist too.

Questioning things is only required when there's really no answer.

Even if you believe in logic, that is how logic works.

Logic, 1+1=2. You don't then question if it's really 2 just because.

You're not being reasonably logical.

 

[roggie]

And where would they get a fruit to feed her with?

Wasnt Bege planning it for over an year? Didn't Gastino used to manufacture artificial devil fruits? Besides, if i'm not mistaken some of them aren't so expensive.

Truth be told, i just wanted to see what would happen

--- Double Post Merged, May 23, 2018, Original Post Date: May 23, 2018 ---

Honestly, correct me if I’m wrong, but the major difference between us on a lot of this isn’t the facts, but the fact that you are supremely confident that you have reached the correct conclusion, and to me I’ll NEVER be supremely confident in ANYTHING. Sure things are more likely than others, but I’ll never take away the chance that I could learn more about something and close the possibility that I could have reached the wrong conclusion. Anywho, respond if you must but I’m going to take your advice and drop it here.

ahahahaha that's 100% @Hannibal Psyche for you. But if you discard his overconfident trait it's possible to manage a helathy conversation with the guy. Sometimes i wonder what he does for living. Besides overly deep manga analysis, of course.

The other day when he said one-piece were 9 poneglyphs i thought 2 things:
1. How did i miss that?
2. hey dude, you stole half the funny of the story
Now i get it, he was just being Hannibaly

Anyway it's a good guess. But couldnt be more than this? I think that's what @Hrathgrath are trying to say.
Some stones that Luffy can't read and doesn't seem to be the type to give much attention too is the only thing he will find? Besides, no other big surprise from Oda, so even smart people can't figured it out what it really is?

Well, maybe it's just a damn good story and Hannibal was right all the time. More than the government stuff i want to hear about the devil fruits and it's origins. They seem so strange

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

ahahahaha that's 100% @Hannibal Psyche for you. But if you discard his overconfident trait it's possible to manage a helathy conversation with the guy. Sometimes i wonder what he does for living. Besides overly deep manga analysis, of course.

The other day when he said one-piece were 9 poneglyphs i thought 2 things:
1. How did i miss that?
2. hey dude, you stole half the funny of the story
Now i get it, he was just being Hannibaly

Anyway it's a good guess. But couldnt be more than this? I think that's what @Hrathgrath are trying to say.
Some stones that Luffy can't read and doesn't seem to be the type to give much attention too is the only thing he will find? Besides, no other big surprise from Oda, so even smart people can't figured it out what it really is?

Well, maybe it's just a damn good story and Hannibal was right all the time. More than the government stuff i want to hear about the devil fruits and it's origins. They seem so strange

I take it you're also interested in school I went to, Uni I'm attending, financial status and possibly the sort of neighbourhood I live in and maybe House too, lol.

I get what he's saying. Thing is the Manga already gives us the answer. Why does there need to be more to the answer?