One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Mwhitt]

You two are welcome to post a better DC feat for Sanji. Dont let me hold you back.

Thats not how debates work you made a statement and tried to support that statement with "manga fact". Now that you have a huge hole in your fact you want to pass the buck off now that you have nothing to support your claim. This entire debate is trivial, if I wanted to be as petty as you I could say pages later Sanji kicked open a door where the children were. I could also say Zoro needed Kinemons help to cut the door when they were escaping from the poison. Thats all comedy and I rather not participate at all in something like that cause I'm not a troll. Try it

 

[Shasha23]

Thats not how debates work you made a statement and tried to support that statement with "manga fact". Now that you have a huge hole in your fact you want to pass the buck off now that you have nothing to support your claim. This entire debate is trivial, if I wanted to be as petty as you I could say pages later Sanji kicked open a door where the children were. I could also say Zoro needed Kinemons help to cut the door when they were escaping from the poison. Thats all comedy and I rather not participate at all in something like that cause I'm not a troll. Try it

Sanji kicked that door multiple times not just once, and ever since then or even before Sanji does not have a better DC feat that trumps Franky and that is a fact thats undisputable.
We already have feats of Zoro cutting mountain size Pica ad him changing the map of Wano, trying to use that to compare DC feats of Sanji to Zoro's is pretty stupid no?

 

[hokageji]

how great is Oda, he managed to create a small, non serious rivalry between two characters which transcends the manga to the real world.....

seriously, enough of Zoro vs Sanji already, this will head nowhere. lets hold it till Wano is over, we'd atleast have seen either in one on one battle....

 

[Mwhitt]

Sanji kicked that door multiple times not just once, and ever since then or even before Sanji does not have a better DC feat that trumps Franky and that is a fact thats undisputable.
We already have feats of Zoro cutting mountain size Pica ad him changing the map of Wano, trying to use that to compare DC feats of Sanji to Zoro's is pretty stupid no?

Am I comparing feats with Zoro or is your reading comprehension failing once again? I said the entire door matter is trivial then I proceeded to say I could say Zoro this if I wanted to be just as petty and troll just like his statement. Sanji just a few pages afterwards kicked open the door to the room where the kids were being kept by Caesar. Are we now going to debate the power levels of the doors? See what I mean trivial, its all silly...is that hard to comprehend? Sword boys unite

One Piece 657 - Read One Piece 657Online - Page 7

One Piece 657 - Read One Piece 657 Manga Scans Page 7. Free and No Registration required for One Piece 657

www.mangareader.net

Read the chapter the door has one dent from ONE kick. You cannot prove he kicked the door multiple times

 

[Shasha23]

Am I comparing feats with Zoro or is your reading comprehension failing once again? I said the entire door matter is trivial then I proceeded to say I could say Zoro this if I wanted to be just as petty and troll just like his statement. Sanji just a few pages afterwards kicked open the door to the room where the kids were being kept by Caesar. Are we now going to debate the power levels of the doors? See what I mean trivial, its all silly...is that hard to comprehend? Sword boys unite

One Piece 657 - Read One Piece 657Online - Page 7

One Piece 657 - Read One Piece 657 Manga Scans Page 7. Free and No Registration required for One Piece 657

www.mangareader.net

Read the chapter the door has one dent from ONE kick. You cannot prove he kicked the door multiple times

This is why you should read the official, those letter on the top of every panel are sound effects of "bang, bang, bang", Sanji was kicking the door multiple times which woke up Franky!

But of course you will chuck it off as trivial since you cant accept reality of facts.

 

[Mwhitt]

This is why you should read the official, those letter on the top of every panel are sound effects of "bang, bang, bang", Sanji was kicking the door multiple times which woke up Franky!

But of course you will chuck it off as trivial since you cant accept reality of facts.

Reality is Sanji kicked open a door right after that. Are we going to debate the power levels of the doors? You guys are comparing one of Franky's most powerful attacks to a standard kick from Sanji. How does that make sense?

 

[albertwv]

Sanji's DC feats aren't that great when you compared them to Luffy, Zolo, and Franky BUT it's not always about DC. Look at Pica he has one of the best DC feats in the manga but he is weaker than Zolo. Look at Moria with 1000 shadows he can split an island but he lost to Pre TS Luffy and Oz did too.
Franky's beam may be more destructive than Sanji's kick but in a 1 v 1, Sanji will win. End of Debate.

 

[McNuss]

Could I borrow your crystal ball so I can see how One Piece ends?

Don't you understand the meaning of imho? What the heck is wrong with you all getting hostile at me?

How do you know Oda's schedule and what he has time for? There are ways of addressing things without making it into a new Dressrosa. Never said there needs to be Shanks- Kidd arc I said its likely to be another point of conflict for Kidd and Luffy.

I don't know his schedule and have never claimed that I do but we have both an editor and a Toei guy claiming that Oda likes to finish One Piece in 5 years. 5 years may be off, but that means we definitely won't get another decade of One Piece. We are at the final stages of the story, things will rather end, then expand.

If you put Kid into the Shanks arc, where do you put Urouge, Bonney, the Admirals, Smoker, Koby, the Revolutionaries, Vegapunk, the Ex-Shishibukai, The Grand Fleet, etc, etc. There is simply way to much that still needs to conclude that I have serious doubts about your Kid ideas.

There is plenty of time for Law honestly but to display he is stronger than he was in Dressrosa is easy. Have him accomplish a feat that would make his current self superior to his Dressrosa self. Law defeated Hawkins so he hasn't just been sitting around doing nothing. Him progressing in strength is natural.

There is nothing that suggest Law couldn't have beaten Hakwins during Dressrosa arc.

And again, I don't think there is that much time left.

The arc isn't over Hawkins can show up again and even if he doesn't he was never built up the way Luffy, Kidd and Law has been. Same as Apoo who can still show his stuff and be conveyed as strong.

You do know that the Supernova are a last minute addition right? They originally weren't planned at all.

Honestly I don't even want to touch that Luffy, Sabo and Ace thing its pretty lol and makes my head hurt seeing as that's your response to my thoughts.

They were shown in exactly the same, identical scene. While the public thinks of Whitebeard and Roger as rivals, they actually had a brotherly relationship. And it is definitely not a coincidence that both trios have exactly the same desires.

But just get hostile again when you are out of arguments, sure.

 

[Mwhitt]

Don't you understand the meaning of imho? What the heck is wrong with you all getting hostile at me?

I don't know his schedule and have never claimed that I do but we have both an editor and a Toei guy claiming that Oda likes to finish One Piece in 5 years. 5 years may be off, but that means we definitely won't get another decade of One Piece. We are at the final stages of the story, things will rather end, then expand.

If you put Kid into the Shanks arc, where do you put Urouge, Bonney, the Admirals, Smoker, Koby, the Revolutionaries, Vegapunk, the Ex-Shishibukai, The Grand Fleet, etc, etc. There is simply way to much that still needs to conclude that I have serious doubts about your Kid ideas.

There is nothing that suggest Law couldn't have beaten Hakwins during Dressrosa arc.

And again, I don't think there is that much time left.

You do know that the Supernova are a last minute addition right? They originally weren't planned at all.

They were shown in exactly the same, identical scene. While the public thinks of Whitebeard and Roger as rivals, they actually had a brotherly relationship. And it is definitely not a coincidence that both trios have exactly the same desires.

But just get hostile again when you are out of arguments, sure.

Wait who is getting hostile? Disagreeing is not hostility. Honestly I never saw you say imho one time during any of the post I responded which is why I asked for your crystal ball because you spoke so confidently.

Did Roger and Whitebeard have a brotherly relationship or were they just rivals who respected each other? They squared off multiple times where as Luffy was simply being saved by Ace time and time again until Luffy ended up saving Ace. Another thing is well......Ace is dead when he was alive he wanted to make Whitebeard pirate king and thats where it ends for him. We have no idea of Sabo's goals besides protecting Luffy as he is still the number 2 of the Revolutionary Army. There was no brotherly dynamic between Roger and Whitebeard they simply respected one another.

I am aware about the supernova. I am also aware that Oda intended for them to first be introduced in the new world that proves nothing. I also already said Kidd doesn't have to have an entire arc. I said Kidd's plot against Shanks could be another point of contention regarding the Luffy-Kidd dynamic.
None of your points clearly convey how Kidd has fallen out of the role he was introduced in as Luffy's biggest rival out of the supernova. He is the Whitebeard to Luffy's Roger...Blackbeard is likely Rocks D. Xebec in that equation as I stated before.

My point is not that Law proved he is stronger now than in Dressrosa from defeating Hawkins. My entire point on Law is that its not unreasonable to assume he has progressed in strength. I stated Hawkins to highlight even though the straw hats are getting the bulk of the action Law isn't idle and has had to fight as well even defeating one of his fellow supernova. Why would he not get stronger, so far your only retort is because his Dressrosa strength is sufficient. That says nothing but he was strong enough in Dressrosa so he should stay that way due to Oda time constraints. He can prove himself stronger simply by being shown fighting someone stronger or on the same level as Doffy which he is literally on the way to do.

 

[McNuss]

Wait who is getting hostile? Disagreeing is not hostility. Honestly I never saw you say imho one time during any of the post I responded which is why I asked for your crystal ball because you spoke so confidently.

I thought you would have included another post of mine in which I basically said the same thing. Sorry about that.

I just don't like it if people say I make their head hurt or anything. If someone does that to you during a conversation, that isn't that nice. I apologize for the misunderstanding regarding the crystall ball.


I spoke confidently because I do know roughly how many chapters there are per year, and how long certain elements in the story such as feauture fights or flashbacks, arc climaxes, etc, usually take. Even though the arcs vary in lenght, they always follow similar patterns, for example there usually is a flashback right before or during the climax, which usually features a Luffy feature fight. There many patterns that haven't really changed since the very first arcs.

Like I can't say how long exactly the plot will take, but I can say pretty confidently that it is fairly unlike for Luffy vs Blackbeard to take less than 10 chapters, for example.

If there are around 300 chapters left which is a rather generous assumption, and we just look at the very long list of things not properly concluded yet (Shanks, Blackbeard, Ex-Shishibukai, Bonney, Urouge, Admirals, Revos, Im, CDs, Smoker, Vegapunk, CP-0 and probably a lot more stuff), as well as think about certain things that are bound to happen such as a Luffy vs Blackbeard feature fight or a flashback around the Void Century, then it is rather unlikely that Oda does not use the opportunity present at Wano arc and conclude the plotlines of certain characters involved there. With Luffy defeating one or two Yonko soon, acquiring his third Road Poneglyph in the process, Kid loses his merit as a rival, especially because he is fairly likely to pass out at some point vs Kaido. That is quite likely because Luffy will have to be in the spotlight during the vs Kaido fight. That's another pattern of One Piece, it is always centered around Luffy.

That's why I think Kid will be concluded in Wano arc. After Wano arc, there will be no feat left that he could do that would put him on par with Luffy. We have a whole lot of other mysteries around Shanks, mainly the dialogue with the Gorosei and what that means for his status and what it was all about (quite likely Blackbeard).

Did Roger and Whitebeard have a brotherly relationship or were they just rivals who respected each other? They squared off multiple times where as Luffy was simply being saved by Ace time and time again until Luffy ended up saving Ace. Another thing is well......Ace is dead when he was alive he wanted to make Whitebeard pirate king and thats where it ends for him. We have no idea of Sabo's goals besides protecting Luffy as he is still the number 2 of the Revolutionary Army. There was no brotherly dynamic between none of the legends they simply respected one another.

Whitebeard and Oden were brothers, that was his identity in the crew instead of a son. Roger and Whitebeard

Ace motivations are revealed during the Marineford war. All he wanted was to have a place in this world.

I am aware about the supernova. I am also aware that Oda intended for them to first be introduced in the new world that proves nothing. I also already said Kidd doesn't have to have an entire arc. I said Kidd's plot against Shanks could be another point of contention regarding the Luffy-Kidd dynamic.
None of your points clearly convey how Kidd has fallen out of the role he was introduced in as Luffy's biggest rival out of the supernova. He is the Whitebeard to Luffy's Roger...Blackbeard is likely Rocks D. Xebec in that equation as I stated before.

I think he is more like the Gecko Moria of his generation, and I would compare the Supernova more to the Shishibukai that gathered at Roger's execution than the legendary generation itself. None of the Novas feats compares even slightly to the monstrous abilities of Roger's generation.

But one shouldn't compare One Piece characters linearly anyways. It's more like twister, and Oda shuffles a lot of stuff from history, pop culture, other fiction, etc. etc. around to create and support his stories. Via certain underlying themes, visuals or background references, it is possible to link a lot of characters together, and while I think some of it is important, a lot more is just for fun.

Because the Supernova are such a late and sudden addition to the story, I don't think they have that much importance for the overall plot. I mean, with the cover story, Bege seems pretty much concluded with a happy family life, and I think the same will happen with most other characters involved in each arc from now on.

My point is not that Law proved he is stronger now than in Dressrosa from defeating Hawkins. My entire point on Law is that its not unreasonable to assume he has progressed in strength. I stated Hawkins to highlight even though the straw hats are getting the bulk of the action Law isn't idle and has had to fight as well even defeating one of his fellow supernova. Why would he not get stronger, so far your only retort is because his Dressrosa strength is sufficient. That says nothing but he was strong enough in Dressrosa so he should stay that way due to Oda time constraints. He can prove himself stronger simply by being shown fighting someone stronger or on the same level as Doffy which he is literally on the way to do.

Law's plotline for the battle will involve some shady stuff based on a plan he agreed on with a mysterious person. I don't really see him set up that much for fights.
Since the mysterious person was not revealed to be Denjiro, I think it is fairly likely that it was Drake, but we will see.

 

[Fox666]

Sanji and Franky vs Punk Hazard doors. We have a direct comparison of their DCs in that scene.

Not necessarily. Franky melted the steel with his laser. That's one specific ability he has.

For example, Franky could also dig a hole in the Marineford barrier, which not even Whitebeard could take down.

Sanji can only use blunt attacks, so there's nothing he could do to escape.

If Sanji can take out a Pacifista, Franky can at least do the same.

I do think Franky could defeat a Pacifista.

But in Film Z he instantly melted at least 7 of them. That's a bit too much.

How did Ikaros end up as Franky's opponent if Sanji knocked him out?

Some time had passed (4 chapters). By that point Ikaros and Dosun were standing again. Although it seems Zeo had to explain to him what happened earlier.

 

[Mwhitt]

I thought you would have included another post of mine in which I basically said the same thing. Sorry about that.

I just don't like it if people say I make their head hurt or anything. If someone does that to you during a conversation, that isn't that nice. I apologize for the misunderstanding regarding the crystall ball.


I spoke confidently because I do know roughly how many chapters there are per year, and how long certain elements in the story such as feauture fights or flashbacks, arc climaxes, etc, usually take. Even though the arcs vary in lenght, they always follow similar patterns, for example there usually is a flashback right before or during the climax, which usually features a Luffy feature fight. There many patterns that haven't really changed since the very first arcs.

Like I can't say how long exactly the plot will take, but I can say pretty confidently that it is fairly unlike for Luffy vs Blackbeard to take less than 10 chapters, for example.

If there are around 300 chapters left which is a rather generous assumption, and we just look at the very long list of things not properly concluded yet (Shanks, Blackbeard, Ex-Shishibukai, Bonney, Urouge, Admirals, Revos, Im, CDs, Smoker, Vegapunk, CP-0 and probably a lot more stuff), as well as think about certain things that are bound to happen such as a Luffy vs Blackbeard feature fight or a flashback around the Void Century, then it is rather unlikely that Oda does not use the opportunity present at Wano arc and conclude the plotlines of certain characters involved there. With Luffy defeating one or two Yonko soon, acquiring his third Road Poneglyph in the process, Kid loses his merit as a rival, especially because he is fairly likely to pass out at some point vs Kaido. That is quite likely because Luffy will have to be in the spotlight during the vs Kaido fight. That's another pattern of One Piece, it is always centered around Luffy.

That's why I think Kid will be concluded in Wano arc. After Wano arc, there will be no feat left that he could do that would put him on par with Luffy. We have a whole lot of other mysteries around Shanks, mainly the dialogue with the Gorosei and what that means for his status and what it was all about (quite likely Blackbeard).

Whitebeard and Oden were brothers, that was his identity in the crew instead of a son. Roger and Whitebeard

Ace motivations are revealed during the Marineford war. All he wanted was to have a place in this world.

I think he is more like the Gecko Moria of his generation, and I would compare the Supernova more to the Shishibukai that gathered at Roger's execution than the legendary generation itself. None of the Novas feats compares even slightly to the monstrous abilities of Roger's generation.

But one shouldn't compare One Piece characters linearly anyways. It's more like twister, and Oda shuffles a lot of stuff from history, pop culture, other fiction, etc. etc. around to create and support his stories. Via certain underlying themes, visuals or background references, it is possible to link a lot of characters together, and while I think some of it is important, a lot more is just for fun.

Because the Supernova are such a late and sudden addition to the story, I don't think they have that much importance for the overall plot. I mean, with the cover story, Bege seems pretty much concluded with a happy family life, and I think the same will happen with most other characters involved in each arc from now on.

Law's plotline for the battle will involve some shady stuff based on a plan he agreed on with a mysterious person. I don't really see him set up that much for fights.
Since the mysterious person was not revealed to be Denjiro, I think it is fairly likely that it was Drake, but we will see.

No problem on the misunderstanding its all good.

You think Kidd is more like Gecko Moria? How? Because they both lost to Kaido? So did Luffy. There's nothing else they have in common. Thats pretty disrespectful actually.

As for my analogy I fail to see how Oden fits in there because I never brought him up. Oden relationships with Roger and Whitebeard have nothing to do with how Roger and Whitebeard viewed each other. I'm not quite following you on this.

You may not like to compare One Piece characters but there is an undeniable connection between Luffy and Roger. The supernova were introduced as rivals to Luffy. Kidd and Law were especially highlighted directly competing with Luffy himself...........I kind of feel like I'm repeating my points over and over.

We can sum it up like this you believe Kidd will essentially be done after this arc correct? I do not I believe he will continue to have a presence in the story after this arc. A presence isn't on screen all the time btw. You also believe Law isn't any stronger than he was in Dressrosa simply because his power there is sufficient right? I disagree on the belief he will vs someone on Doffy level or above. Agree to disagree cause I feel like we are going in circles for real

 

[M3J]

Anyway, while Sanji can one-shot a Pacifista, I don't see how we can tell if Franky can or can't as well. The laser beams can do damage, but Pacifistas are built differently. Ultimately though, Franky should be able to win. Never understood how he wasn't considered part of the Monster group given he was able to match Luffy's power well enough when they fought.

 

[nik87]

Thats not how debates work you made a statement and tried to support that statement with "manga fact". Now that you have a huge hole in your fact you want to pass the buck off now that you have nothing to support your claim. This entire debate is trivial, if I wanted to be as petty as you I could say pages later Sanji kicked open a door where the children were. I could also say Zoro needed Kinemons help to cut the door when they were escaping from the poison. Thats all comedy and I rather not participate at all in something like that cause I'm not a troll. Try it

I like it how you tried to wiggle out of posting better DC feat for Sanji. Manga fact remains that Sanji doesnt have better DC feat than Franky.

ranky's beam may be more destructive than Sanji's kick but in a 1 v 1, Sanji will win. End of Debate.

How will Sanji damage real Franky inside the Shogun if he cant pass through the doors?

Not necessarily. Franky melted the steel with his laser. That's one specific ability he has.
For example, Franky could also dig a hole in the Marineford barrier, which not even Whitebeard could take down.
Sanji can only use blunt attacks, so there's nothing he could do to escape.

The initial point still stands - Franky's lasers are more destructive than Sanji's kicks.

 

[goldb]

Read the chapter the door has one dent from ONE kick. You cannot prove he kicked the door multiple times

He kicked the door multiple times. Each panel on that page with the sfx shows there were at least 4 kicks before Franky woke up. As there's only one dent, it'd make sense that you'd want to aim for the same area repeatedly to improve your chances of breaking through.

Anyway, while Sanji can one-shot a Pacifista, I don't see how we can tell if Franky can or can't as well. The laser beams can do damage, but Pacifistas are built differently. Ultimately though, Franky should be able to win. Never understood how he wasn't considered part of the Monster group given he was able to match Luffy's power well enough when they fought.

I'm not sure I'd say one-shot as it took a combined attack from him and Zoro to take down one in Sabaody. It wouldn't be much of a challenge but he'd be able to defeat one. I agree that Franky too should be able to defeat one, but it'll be tougher battle than Sanji.

Here I'm simply talking about the pre-timeskip Pacifista. We know from Sentomaru that the new versions are much stronger.

 

[M3J]

He kicked the door multiple times. Each panel on that page with the sfx shows there were at least 4 kicks before Franky woke up. As there's only one dent, it'd make sense that you'd want to aim for the same area repeatedly to improve your chances of breaking through.



I'm not sure I'd say one-shot as it took a combined attack from him and Zoro to take down one in Sabaody. It wouldn't be much of a challenge but he'd be able to defeat one. I agree that Franky too should be able to defeat one, but it'll be tougher battle than Sanji.

Here I'm simply talking about the pre-timeskip Pacifista. We know from Sentomaru that the new versions are much stronger.

It looked like Zoro and Sanji could have one-shot the Pacifista alone though, and I'm pretty sure they could have.

Ah right, I forgot that was the old Pacifista that cornered Luffy and the others. It should still be an easy enough fight for the Monster Quartet, but harder for Franky. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if even Nami and Usopp could beat it.

 

[nik87]

Pacifistas are small fry for the Strawhat crew guys... If there is a single member of the crew that cant take out a Pacifista I will take down my awesome pfp.

 

[Fox666]

It looked like Zoro and Sanji could have one-shot the Pacifista alone though, and I'm pretty sure they could have.

Zoro cut its torso in half, Sanji broke its neck... how would it continue after a single one of these attacks?

 

[XXGenesis]

Stop debating the power level of the door!!!!

Laser Beam guys...Stop hating on Sanji lmfao!! Nah for real..its stupid to compare a Laser beam to physical attacks...

Laser beams were shown to be hella of destructive and effective if you don't dodge completely.

It's a silly arguement.

Sanji fans. Understand he doesnt have GREAT feats at the moment..& he lacks haki & really kool destructive capabilities..

He's still a badass...somewhat

 

[nik87]

Stop hating on Sanji lmfao!!

A man like Sanjino with only half of his hair back-combed isnt fit to be in the boss league, manga fact.