Discussion One Piece Power level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Most of what's needed to be said about this Zoro power level and limits has been said, I've just gone back a week's worth of posts and it's literally the same things being repeated. A lot of what has been mentioned in terms of the character and his limit is speculative until we see him pushed in this arc(hopefully), so we can re-evaluate these points afer the fact.
I will be deleting any of the same arguments unless you can provide manga/databook evidence to continue this, so the onus is on you.

There's been too many snide, troll and passive aggressive posts recently. I don't care if you agree with each other or not. If you can't defend your arguments or have nothing constructive to add, then re-evaluate its necessity. I definitely don't want to see any bashing; of character or users.

Also, any discussions not relating to power level will be treated as off-topic, so please take those the correct threads( spoiler: there are pages of threads) or make one. I'll pin this to the top of the page.

If you disagree with anything, PM me or you know...use the report function to save yourself being involved. ~ goldb
 

afromarco005

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Thiss is why i struggle to even bother debating certain posters. "they aren't near equal because Viki the Viking and cutting and Oda let Zoro take Luffy's pain and therefore Sanji couldn't have..."
You forgot the part where zoro knocks out Sanji in one hit with the hilt of his sword?

If sanji took this much pain and lost this much blood in his state he would be dead, thats common sense.


My ranking of the straw hats:
  1. Luffy : his advanced Color of observation, armament and soon conquerors plus his gears makes him the no1 in the crew slightly stronger than Jimbe. His potential awakening is another card up his sleeve.
  2. Jimbe: He is a beast no one under him has tangoed with an admiral and a yonko quite like him. These feats are why I put him as the 2nd strongest sh (No1 underwater).
  3. Zoro: Cut mountain sized ennemies, clashed with an admiral, survived kuma's pain at Tbark and now has a new sword to play with. The reason he is this high is that he never struggled in the new world and never felt the need to go all out we still need to see his full power post timeskip. He will be 2nd strongest after Wano slightly stronger than Jimbe.
  4. Sanji RS: Raid suit gave Sanji a well needed boost to his defense and other stats. He is strong enough now to fight tobiroppo without taking too much damage he will be 4th strongest after wano and 3rd strongest EOS.
  5. Franky: has incredible offense in the form of lasers comparable to an admiral attack. Said lasers could destroy a steel door that even sanji couldn't. I expect him to grow even stronger in the future once he meets vegapunk. His defense is top notch too if he learns haki he will become a true tank.
  6. Brook : he has strange soul powers that freezes his opponents and has probably the fastest movement speed out of all the strawhats. he is immortal.
  7. Robin: Beast df, Kage bushin, potential awakening potential haki would make her even more dangerous.
  8. Nami: has part of a yonko soul as a weapon enough said.
  9. Usopp: one of the few straw hats with haki he will be the best sniper in the world.
  10. Chopper: Is a disappointment really he has become really pathetic since the timeskip. I would even say that he regressed compared to pre skip. This could be explained by the fact that he is used more as a mascott than a real character nowadays.
 

albertwv

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Apoo is shown to be strong and made Luffy and Zolo look weak in this new chapter. BUT let's be honest, do you really think Apoo can defeat Luffy? Luffy who defeated Katakuri and Cracker and Doffy. Apoo doesn't seem like the type to be able to defeat any of those. They only took damage because they had no idea how to counter his DF attacks. Remember Kizaru got cut up and blown by Apoo. Does that mean Apoo > Kizaru? Kizaru just got surprised just like Luffy and Zolo. So please don't think Apoo can defeat Luffy or Zolo (looking at you Moe).

Also, Kid is not equal to Luffy. Not until we have confirmation that Kid defeated a Yonko Commander as strong as Katakuri. He was said to only damage one of Big Mom's YC. My theory about this ties with Urouge defeating Snack. I think Kid and Urouge joined hands to take down Snack, with Urouge finishing him off.
This is because at Fishman Island, Tamago explains to BM that Kid destroyed 2 of their ships not too long ago during FI Arc. Then a couple days later (after Dressrosa) we see Urouge resting in the clouds looking at Kaido fall down. Urouge had fresh wounds from his fight with Snack. And Brulee explains that not too long ago there were 4 instead of 3 Sweet Commanders. Snack also seems to have a grudge on the Worst Generation because Urouge defeated him but maybe also on Kid. That is my theory on how Urouge defeated Snack with the help of Kid.

But yeah Kid is still not Luffy's level, you only think that because he is seem to be portrayed as Luffy's rival but honestly G4 Luffy takes the win anytime.
 

Brandish

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Apoo cannot defeat Zoro or Luffy. But he's strong enough to put Luffy and Zoro on the back-foot if he gets them unawares.

I'm sure we'll see more from Apoo, but for now he has some questions against him as a fighter:
> it looked like he needed time to get his fight music reads, several seconds, which might be too much in a real fight
> he could not react to Kidd
> haki capabilities? defensive capabilities?
 

King Moe

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You forgot the part where zoro knocks out Sanji in one hit with the hilt of his sword?

If sanji took this much pain and lost this much blood in his state he would be dead, thats common sense.


My ranking of the straw hats:
  1. Luffy : his advanced Color of observation, armament and soon conquerors plus his gears makes him the no1 in the crew slightly stronger than Jimbe. His potential awakening is another card up his sleeve.
  2. Jimbe: He is a beast no one under him has tangoed with an admiral and a yonko quite like him. These feats are why I put him as the 2nd strongest sh (No1 underwater).
  3. Zoro: Cut mountain sized ennemies, clashed with an admiral, survived kuma's pain at Tbark and now has a new sword to play with. The reason he is this high is that he never struggled in the new world and never felt the need to go all out we still need to see his full power post timeskip. He will be 2nd strongest after Wano slightly stronger than Jimbe.
  4. Sanji RS: Raid suit gave Sanji a well needed boost to his defense and other stats. He is strong enough now to fight tobiroppo without taking too much damage he will be 4th strongest after wano and 3rd strongest EOS.
  5. Franky: has incredible offense in the form of lasers comparable to an admiral attack. Said lasers could destroy a steel door that even sanji couldn't. I expect him to grow even stronger in the future once he meets vegapunk. His defense is top notch too if he learns haki he will become a true tank.
  6. Brook : he has strange soul powers that freezes his opponents and has probably the fastest movement speed out of all the strawhats. he is immortal.
  7. Robin: Beast df, Kage bushin, potential awakening potential haki would make her even more dangerous.
  8. Nami: has part of a yonko soul as a weapon enough said.
  9. Usopp: one of the few straw hats with haki he will be the best sniper in the world.
  10. Chopper: Is a disappointment really he has become really pathetic since the timeskip. I would even say that he regressed compared to pre skip. This could be explained by the fact that he is used more as a mascott than a real character nowadays.
Actually no. Sanji tank Drake's attack better than Zoro with Apoo and Sanji didn't need RS. Heck He tank ship destroying attacks by Kanjiro and protected Nami without injury. Zoro been hype tool to now 5 fights while Sanji beaten his enemies and match greatly to Drake.

Right now Sanji is 2nd/3rd Strongest and Zoro is like 4th/5th. Do agree Jimbei is above them, but after Wano Sanji truly surpass him while Zoro will at EOS though.

Stop overhyping Zoro when we saw for 3rd Supernova you guys thought wouldn't damage seriously, did like that. Zoro is not invincible. He get hurt like anyone else abd thus no reason to keep pushing him better than everyone by Headcannon. He needs training and help for upcoming fights. No shame in that.
 

albertwv

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@Moe, Zolo defeated Hawkins, twice! He killed 2 of Hawkins' lives easily, he took down Killer and ONLY got hit after The Sword Bandit tried to slash Zolo. But then Zolo sliced him up real good. He was shown defending Luffy and Tama from Hawkins' nails attack. Yes he took damage and bled but that doesn't mean Hawkins won. Sanji has only shown putting up a fight agaisnt P1 thanks to his RS. But without RS Sanji would've taken more damage. You just decide to ignore the facts of the manga. Both Luffy and Zolo were surprised by Apoo's attacks and had no counter to that. Im sure if Zolo had seen the slash attack from Apoo he would've countered. This chapter didn't make Luffy or Zolo look weak but actually make Apoo look like a formidable opponent obviously because he is a Supernova. Stop pushing your Sanji narrative, Sanji will always be a little below Zolo just a little.
 

Mwhitt

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It was stated that Katakuri was the strongest of the Sweet Commanders.


When the Gorosei were discussing the threat of Blackbeard, they mentioned Marco as one of the only people who could stop him in the New World, so he seems to be special among the Whitebeard division commanders.
Yes Marco and the remnants of the Whitebeard pirates. He turned out special because he came out as the leader which is why he is specified by name and attach with the remnants of the Whitebeard pirates. Was that due to solely strength or were there other factors taken into account like intelligence, seniority, how liked he is by everyone, skill set etc when he was made leader?

I purposely pit Katakuri as 1 and Cracker as 3 leaving Smoothie to be number 2 right? What evidence besides bounty do we have that says 100% that Smoothie is stronger than Cracker? We are assuming she is I'm fine with that ranking but that is speculation. Its my opinion if I'm proven wrong by a statement in the manga later on I can't discredit the manga based on speculation I came up with in my own head.
 
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Fox666

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Yes Marco and the remnants of the Whitebeard pirates. He turned out special because he came out as the leader which is why he is specified by name and attach with the remnants of the Whitebeard pirates. Was that due to solely strength or were there other factors taken into account like intelligence, seniority, how liked he is by everyone, skill set etc when he was made leader?
I think that's over-analyzing it. In One Piece the leaders are always the strongest, with a few exception like Buggy (but his crew believes it).

I purposely pit Katakuri as 1 and Cracker as 3 leaving Smoothie to be number 2 right? What evidence besides bounty do we have that says 100% that Smoothie is stronger than Cracker? We are assuming she is I'm fine with that ranking but that is speculation. Its my opinion if I'm proven wrong by a statement in the manga later on I can't discredit the manga based on speculation I came up with in my own head.
I presume Big Mom always sent her weakest commander to deal with intruders. When Snack was defeated, Cracker filled the role.

Other than that, there's nothing to compare Smoothie to Cracker or Snack.
 
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Mwhitt

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I think that's over-analyzing it. In One Piece the leaders are always the strongest, with a few exception like Buggy (but his crew believes it).


I presume Big Mom always sent her weakest commander to deal with intruders. When Snack was defeated, Cracker filled the role.

Other than that, there's nothing to compare Smoothie to Cracker or Snack.


Personally I always expected Hawkins, Appo and the others to be on par with Luffy and Law. While they hadn't done anything before Wano, it was clear the author was building some hype.

I have no idea why people assumed they would be weak. Was it because of Stampede?
Is it really over analyzing though? You yourself just gave a direct contrast to our established "rule" in Buggy's crew. Also wasn't Gin stronger than his captain Don Krieg back in East Blue? Perospero believed just his seniority was enough for him to be captain of Big Mom crew over Katakuri. That was mostly a comic relief scene but is it far fetched to believe seniority counts for something when a crew has determine a replacement captain? Can we say for a fact crews would always pick the strongest as their captains should they need a replacement or do they pick someone that has the most balanced traits of intelligence, strength, relationships among crew etc. I'm kind of going off on a rant now away from my main point.

Cracker didn't fill anyones spot there were originally 4 Sweet Commanders. Snack was just demoted.

I mean I never expected Hawkins to beat Law, just like I wouldn't expect Apoo to beat Luffy but they strong or going by Oda's depiction they should be. One being strong enough to harm the other should be a given. And take into account the context of the situation that Luffy attacked an army head on and Apoo jumped out that army to attack. I don't get how the results of that is hard to accept unless Apoo was written off as fodder prior due to head cannon because the depiction of him and all the supernova have been they are strong. The supernova imo have been one of the best things of the New World for me personally.
 

Grandmaster Woro

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You said that remark about Apoo in the past. Don't backtrack what you said now you got no defense to support Zoro on this matter after what chapter shows.

Sanji is unofficial Supernova as he respected by some he know and faced better than Zoro looking at both sides. I am aware of that, but don't get tense over position said about Zoro after latest chapter.
What remark about apoo? Please give proof
There is no such thing as unofficial supernova. He is not a supernova coz his bounty is below 100 million pre timeskip.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Also wasn't Gin stronger than his captain Don Krieg back in East Blue?
What? Don krieg destroyed gin. He could not survive that explosive spear from krieg
 

Fox666

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Is it really over analyzing though? You yourself just gave a direct contrast to our established "rule" in Buggy's crew. Also wasn't Gin stronger than his captain Don Krieg back in East Blue? Perospero believed just his seniority was enough for him to be captain of Big Mom crew over Katakuri. That was mostly a comic relief scene but is it far fetched to believe seniority counts for something when a crew has determine a replacement captain? Can we say for a fact crews would always pick the strongest as their captains should they need a replacement or do they pick someone that has the most balanced traits of intelligence, strength, relationships among crew etc. I'm kind of going off on a rant now away from my main point.
Why would you think Gin was stronger than Don Krieg?

Perosperos claimed he should be captain, but he was questioned because Katakuri was the strongest.

It seems in One Piece a crew put a lot faith in their captain fighting power. That's an untold rule. Otherwise, his position is challenged.

Even among the Strawhats, in Fish-man Island arc Zoro said Luffy should step down as captain if he wasn't capable of dealing with that crowd.

Cracker didn't fill anyones spot there were originally 4 Sweet Commanders. Snack was just demoted.
I meant that Cracker filled the role as the one responsible for taking care of intruders and such.

I mean I never expected Hawkins to beat Law, just like I wouldn't expect Apoo to beat Luffy but they strong or going by Oda's depiction they should be. One being strong enough to harm the other should be a given. And take into account the context of the situation that Luffy attacked an army head on and Apoo jumped out that army to attack. I don't get how the results of that is hard to accept unless Apoo was written off as fodder prior due to head cannon because the depiction of him and all the supernova have been they are strong. The supernova imo have been one of the best things of the New World for me personally.
I wasn't very surprised. I only knew these guys should be super strong, although it wasn't 100% clear how much.

Still, Law wasn't outpowered by Hawkins' power, but his wits. Luffy was knocked down easily, but he wasn't using Gear 4.
 

thedude

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What remark about apoo? Please give proof
There is no such thing as unofficial supernova. He is not a supernova coz his bounty is below 100 million pre timeskip.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



What? Don krieg destroyed gin. He could not survive that explosive spear from krieg
Didn't Gin allow Krieg to hit him because he respected him as the captain? He even took off his mask at Krieg's command.
 

Fox666

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Didn't Gin allow Krieg to hit him because he respected him as the captain? He even took off his mask at Krieg's command.
Gin was an obedient dog like Wadatsumi, but even so I think Krieg was the strongest.

But that's a special case. Usually crews aren't like that.
 

thedude

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Gin was an obedient dog like Wadatsumi, but even so I think Krieg was the strongest.

But that's a special case. Usually crews aren't like that.
Right, I agree, just making the point that Krieg didn't crush him in a real fight, so it's pointless to use it as evidence of anything.
 

Mwhitt

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What? Don krieg destroyed gin. He could not survive that explosive spear from krieg
There's a question mark, meaning I'm asking a question. Its been a very long time since I read that arc and I don't claim to be all knowing hence the question cause all I remember is Krieg not admitting defeat and Gin having to ko him and leave.

What I like even more is that I posted paragraph on paragraph and this is what you choose to respond to. Talk about wasted effort lol

Why would you think Gin was stronger than Don Krieg?

Perosperos claimed he should be captain, but he was questioned because Katakuri was the strongest.

It seems in One Piece a crew put a lot faith in their captain fighting power. That's an untold rule. Otherwise, his position is challenged.

Even among the Strawhats, in Fish-man Island arc Zoro said Luffy should step down as captain if he wasn't capable of dealing with that crowd.


I meant that Cracker filled the role as the one responsible for taking care of intruders and such.


I wasn't very surprised. I only knew these guys should be super strong, although it wasn't 100% clear how much.

Still, Law wasn't outpowered by Hawkins' power, but his wits. Luffy was knocked down easily, but he wasn't using Gear 4.
I really don't remember the arc which is why I asked.

Got ya on the Cracker part.

I never said the captain shouldn't be the strongest and this has deviated greatly away from my original point when I was talking about yonko commander hierarchy and head cannon power scaling not having enough merit to be used as fact to critique the writing of the manga with @Grandmaster Woro

You aren't really saying anything I necessarily disagree with on that front.

I don't clearly understand what you meant on the Law-Hawkins part.
 

M3J

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Don Krieg didn't really seem particularly strong, just devious enough to use armor and weapons and fight dirty. Gin looked like a better fighter.
 

Mwhitt

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Don Krieg didn't really seem particularly strong, just devious enough to use armor and weapons and fight dirty. Gin looked like a better fighter.
See now I'm curious cause I don't 100% remember. Let me reread this damn fight lol
 

Fox666

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Don Krieg didn't really seem particularly strong, just devious enough to use armor and weapons and fight dirty. Gin looked like a better fighter.
Doesn't matter how Krieg fight, he gave Luffy a lot of trouble. :doge
 

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Apoo it literally the ONLY named character that could have attacked them in such a way. Anyone else Luffy would have countered in the right conditions. Even Zoro would have sensed where the attack was coming from and blocked
 
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M3J

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See now I'm curious cause I don't 100% remember. Let me reread this damn fight lol
Main thing I remember is Gin breaking armor or something with his clubs or whatever they're called, whereas Krieg kept using stuff like small balls with sharp needles (forgot what they're called), missiles, gas, and etc.
Doesn't matter how Krieg fight, he gave Luffy a lot of trouble. :doge
Pfft, barely.
 
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