One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

And let's not forget Blackbeard (if by "two" you meant Croco and Mingo) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)...
By giving him the title of Shichibukai, the Marines ended up enabling him and allowing him to become a Yonkou...

It won't matter too much in my opinion if the Shichibukai system is done away with, because I'm pretty sure that all of the Warlords (past and current, aside from Teach) will side with Luffy at some point.

I know they're not getting rid of the Shichibukai because of Luffy, but yeah, everyone will still have a role to play.

I meant Croc and Doflamingo as Blackbeard didn't seem to have done anything evil until Impel Down.

Probably will, but most at this point won't. Doflamingo definitely won't because being a Tenryuubito is part of his power/influence, Moriah likely won't because he was beaten by Luffy, and I can't see Kuma having that choice anymore either. Problem is, with shichibukai system in effect, the warlords do have to come at Marines' command and fight for them, and to say no is to lose that position and become hunted again. Hancock was in danger of losing her position because she refused to take part in the war until Luffy wanted to go to Impel Down, and Jinbei also lost his status because he refused to fight Whitebeard.

 

[roggie]

You do not understand the concept of an analogy

It's interesting to note that whenever I make an analogy it doesn't make sense, even though i am supposed to be the one making the parallel. It's not that you didn't understand but that I did it wrong.

On the other hand, when you make an analogy and "I don't get it" it's not that you did it wrong, of course not, you are never wrong, I'm the one to blame, again. Curious.

But even more curious is the fact that you seem to never perceive whenever I'm being ironic. I'm legitimately starting to think if you are not a robot!

My evidences being:
1. You always make thoroughly researches;
2 .You keep on answering, like you always have to have the last word;
3. You think your logic is absolute;
4. You don't get irony (in the premise that I understand the concept and i'm using it right);
5. You seem to have a lot of time to answer people.

So, I ask you, are YOU an artificial intelligence, programmed to interact and learn from internet forums!?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's interesting to note that whenever I make an analogy it doesn't make sense, even though i am supposed to be the one making the parallel. It's not that you didn't understand but that I did it wrong.

On the other hand, when you make an analogy and "I don't get it" it's not that you did it wrong, of course not, you are never wrong, I'm the one to blame, again. Curious.

No, you really do not make sensible analogies, that's why I disagree.

You compared a Shirt to Haki when they do not have similar functions.

Point of an analogy is to use a different object, thing, or concept to explain something with similar function and your analogy doesn't do that.

1. Haki dampens the effects of a force.
2. Shirts do not dampen the effects of any force.

Not too long ago, you stated that facts do not exist because a story is not real.

My evidences being:
1. You always make thoroughly researches;
2 .You keep on answering, like you always have to have the last word;
3. You think your logic is absolute;
4. You don't get irony (in the premise that I understand the concept and i'm using it right);
5. You seem to have a lot of time to answer people.

So, I ask you, are YOU an artificial intelligence, programmed to interact and learn from internet forums!?

Artificial intelligence doesn't conduct research, maybe they collect, but they do not research. People research.

Your use of analogy is poor, that's a fact with all the analogies you've made so far comparing a shirt to haki despite having completely different functions.

Reason why the heart can be compared to a pump and makes it a suitable analogy is because they both propel liquid in a direction. Similar function. If you learn to recognise function and use that as the basis in your attempts to make analogies, maybe they'll begin to make sense.

 

[roggie]

You compared a Shirt to Haki when they do not have similar functions.

Man, I bet you're the kind of guy (or robot?!) that if I use your own argument against you and you don't realize it's yours, you will say it's wrong because this and that.
Doesn't they both offer a layer of protection?
But whatever, ok. People doesn't need to keep reading this dragging discussions. Nevertheless you said a lot of arbitrary things....

Shirts do not dampen the effects of any force.

No? Have you been whipped with and without a shirt?

Artificial intelligence doesn't conduct research, maybe they collect, but they do not research. People research

Seriously? Who are you to say it, Elon Musk, Larry Page?


Anyway, the fact is Luffy never hurted BigMom. What's the point to say she needed to use hardening to defend against him? Well, she used and chances are she can keep using it waaaay, waaaaaaaay longer than Luffy. So, no, Luffy can't hurt big mom. Period.
Without an upgrade he has no chance against her.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Man, I bet you're the kind of guy (or robot?!) that if I use your own argument against you and you don't realize it's yours, you will say it's wrong because this and that.
Doesn't they both offer a layer of protection?
But whatever, ok. People doesn't need to keep reading this dragging discussions. Nevertheless you said a lot of arbitrary things....

No? Have you been whipped with and without a shirt?


Seriously? Who are you to say it, Elon Musk, Larry Page?


Anyway, the fact is Luffy never hurted BigMom. What's the point to say she needed to use hardening to defend against him? Well, she used and chances are she can keep using it waaaay, waaaaaaaay longer than Luffy. So, no, Luffy can't hurt big mom. Period.
Without an upgrade he has no chance against her.

See? Analogy compares things by taking what they have in similarity.

A shirt doesn't reduce the impact of blow nor does it make a blow more powerful, Haki does that. Therefore, your analogy was wrong.

Yes, she blocked it. Any character who blocks with Hardening always does so when the blow is capable of hurting. You can't provide any instances where a character has used Hardening against an attack that couldn't hurt them. So, your point is moot.

It's not a point of using longer, the point was whether or not Luffy can hurt her. Clearly, he can since she used Hardening to defend.

I also don't need to be Elon Musk to say it, that is the current state of things, lol. Artificial intelligence my friend would need to be able to reason in order to research. A computer currently cannot take data and interpret it, it can only collect while we humans with intelligence can interpret it. In order to research, one must be able to interpret data.

 

[nik87]

There is no need to drag this on, everyone stated their opinions at least few times, we debated it. All that's left is to wait a bit more and see how Luffy does against Kaido, then we will have our answer if he is strong enough to beat Yonkos or not.

 

[roggie]

I also don't need to be Elon Musk to say it, that is the current state of things, lol. Artificial intelligence my friend would need to be able to reason in order to research. A computer currently cannot take data and interpret it, it can only collect while we humans with intelligence can interpret it. In order to research, one must be able to interpret data.

I don't know what are the rules about links in forum but a simple google can show you:

"A new study shows computers outshine real-life academics when performing some scholarly research tasks"
“Manuscript Writer”, newly released by sciNote, can save researchers time, and the tedium of pulling together their methodology and findings, by using artificial intelligence to draft papers, according to its creators.

And this is from last year. So you are saying there is no way a high tech company can be running a top secret "forum bot" test? I bet this is what a forum bot under scrutiny would say https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/103806541/my-eyes-on-you

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't know what are the rules about links in forum but a simple google can show you:

"A new study shows computers outshine real-life academics when performing some scholarly research tasks"
“Manuscript Writer”, newly released by sciNote, can save researchers time, and the tedium of pulling together their methodology and findings, by using artificial intelligence to draft papers, according to its creators.

And this is from last year. So you are saying there is no way a high tech company can be running a top secret "forum bot" test? I bet this is what a forum bot under scrutiny would say https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/103806541/my-eyes-on-you

AI is completely irrelevant to the topic, lol. No one cares.

Point is your analogies are not logical and coming from someone who claims facts don't exist as a concept, it's hard to expect anything logical after such a statement.

--- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2018, Original Post Date: May 29, 2018 ---

No? Have you been whipped with and without a shirt?

Maybe you have, do tell, how was the experience, pleasant?

So, you've gone from Mosquito bites to Whips, lol.

That is still not the purpose of a shirt, it's not designed to lessen the effect of whips. It's primarily designed to keep people protected from the climate and nudity.

Haki is purposed specifically for weakening blows and strengthening attacks. A Shirt doesn't share that similarity with Haki. Your analogy, still remains bad.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Not saying I don’t understand the comparison between a shirt and haki, but I Personally think haki doesn’t just strengthen JUST the outside of their body. If that were the case I don’t think Luffy would have been able to use it to enhance his rubber abilities the way he did.

 

[roggie]

Point is your analogies are not logical and coming from someone who claims facts don't exist as a concept, it's hard to expect anything logical after such a statement.

What I said is they aren't or at least shouldn't be facts per se. If you read Naruto you have or could have a clear example what I was talking about. Problem here is you are taking it out of context. I said that to try to show you that the future could hold more than that your so called facts could show, due to story inconsistencies. But in your eager to be right you make no effort to try to understand what people are truly trying to say. And now you try to use this against me, not against my arguments? I believe the philosophers call it argumentum ad hominem..?
And that's another point, are the definition of facts...wait for it...a fact!? I think it's open to debate.
Anyway I will refrain from further discussion over this specific topic. If I tried to show something using an analogy and I wasn't understood, either way it's my failure. I will try to come up with better analogies next time.
Good riddance.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I said that to try to show you that the future could hold more than that your so called facts could show, due to story inconsistencies.

What inconsistencies? None. You're speculating that there are inconsistencies without proof of any? Okay, that's odd..

I said that to try to show you that the future could hold more than that your so called facts could show

Yes, but evidence doesn't show these so called "more". When you have proof, sure. Right now, you don't. It's pure speculation.

And now you try to use this against me, not against my arguments? I believe the philosophers call it argumentum ad hominem..?

Nope, Ad hominen is not using one's argument against them, that's insulting them buddy. If anything, you're the one using Ad hominen trying to label me as a robot, lol. You're lost on your own irony buddy.

Good riddance to you too.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I'm surprised no one has stated that Jack is stronger than Katakuri since he fought for 5 days while Katakuri was exhausted after 11 hours, lol. Not that I think this way, but it's something I was expecting the OP community to bring up. Let the games begin!

 

[kcd]

I'm surprised no one has stated that Jack is stronger than Katakuri since he fought for 5 days while Katakuri was exhausted after 11 hours, lol. Not that I think this way, but it's something I was expecting the OP community to bring up. Let the games begin!

The way I see it, someone capable of lasting days in a fight will only last that long when their opponent don't have attacks capable of knocking 'them out' quickly. Dogstorm's and Catviper's attacks weren't at a level that could knock him out, that's why the fight went on for days.

But, for instance, if he receives two KKG in a fight with luffy, and is knocked out within 20 mins, then it won't matter how many days he's capable of fighting because the fight would be over at that point.

In essence, the gravity of attack is what counts in my opinion, but, if one meets their equal in strength and doesn't have "end of days (or goodnight)" level attacks Or is unable to connect hits, then the number of days one can last becomes important real quick.

 

[M3J]

That overused thing about stalemate.
If one attacks the other it may get too weak and fall from sudden attack of another one...

What?

In my opinion, Whitebeard would definitely beat Akainu considering few things. The Whitebeard that faced Akainu was sick, stabbed and was already facing many opponents; moreover, he was distracted and raged for Ace. He still was able to beat Akainu to a pulp.

So, if it is one on one, Old, Sick and stabbed Whitebeard vs Akainu (then); Akainu wouldn't have gotten a heavy shot on Whitebeard and would have been defeated relatively easier.

Other Yonku will be able to beat an Admiral I think. Akainulikely is stronger than other Admirals at this point, so he might be a good match for them.

Again, debatable given it's not like DBZ where power levels matter. A Yonkou could beat an admiral only to lose to another admiral because of matchup. I think Whitebeard was probably the only one who could deal with any of the admirals, if not most of them. Then again though, Akainu got a devastating attack from Whitebeard but still got up and fought to kill Luffy. He also battled Aokiji for days and won, so we're probably underestimating him.

We saw that Rayleigh handled Kizaru pretty well and I am sure Whitebeard is way better than Rayleigh.

Rayleigh handled Kizaru in a sword on sword and hand-to-hand fight. Did Kizaru launch his beams at Rayleigh?

Though, given their levels of haki, Whitebeard and Rayleigh should be able to deal with the beams.

I think overall a Yonkou army is stronger than the marine army. Like, while I think an admiral is close or equal to an emporor, i think a strong crewmate is closer to an emporor and admiral level than a vice captain is. Katakuri is I think close to the level of an admiral, while a VC that we've seen (Garp excluded) isn't. I may be wrong, and power levels bore me mostly, but that's how I think.

that's extremely debatable given the trouble Whitebeard crew was having against the Marines.

That's the thing, Hina then says that they have lost their captain which makes me think she is talking about another terrifying crew, Jaiminisbox translation in that regard makes a bit more sense, as Garp is saying that it would be troublesome if they made a comeback and Hina said their strength is growing, all this leads me to believe they are talking about other crews as well

I would wait for cnet's translation really but it is intriguing really

What if the captain decided to leave the crew, maybe for a while? I mean, it's not like they said the captain was dead, did they?

Let's say that Charloss comes back and tries to take her again, this time in front of the other nobles.

Would everyone (nobles) just be okay with that and let it happen, knowing all the world leaders are watching, getting upset, and will potentially turn their backs on them...?

I don't know, wouldn't really seem like a smart move.

yes they will let that happen, other than Neptune. The Tenryuubito are seen as gods because they descend from the founders of the world and so far, have been able to get away with anything. I mean, no one but Neptune and Vivi were doing anything to save Shirahoshi, she had to be saved by Hngh, a Tenryuubito himself.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The way I see it, someone capable of lasting days in a fight will only last that long when their opponent don't have attacks capable of knocking 'them out' quickly. Dogstorm's and Catviper's attacks weren't at a level that could knock him out, that's why the fight went on for days.

But, for instance, if he receives two KKG in a fight with luffy, and is knocked out within 20 mins, then it won't matter how many days he's capable of fighting because the fight would be over at that point.

In essence, the gravity of attack is what counts in my opinion, but, if one meets their equal in strength and doesn't have "end of days (or goodnight)" level attacks Or is unable to connect hits, then the number of days one can last becomes important real quick.

Agreed. More or less why I don't put much importance into days one has fought.

 

[M3J]

I think he meant something along the lines of:

The Marines/Admirals could "easily" get rid of a Yonko if they wanted to, but they would obviously suffer some losses in the process and would have to take some time off afterwards to take care of the wounded, rebuild stuff, etc.

So if they started to go after the Yonko, chances are that after they fought/beat one, the others would quickly come to finish off the Marines while they're in a though spot.

Marineford is the perfect example of this. Imagine that instead of Shanks showing up, it was Kaido and his Zoan army and/or Big Mom's whole family.

Would the Marines stand any chance? No, they'd be annihilated on the spot, most likely, so that's why (in my opinion) the Marines don't just go after the big heads: they don't have enough power to get the whole thing "done" in one swoop.

Hence the stalemate and why no one really dares to tip the balance, but now that Vegapunk has come up with something that equals "more power", they might be in a position to start cleaning up the New World.

I thought he was disagreeing with that, actually, since he said "that overused thing about stalemate." Otherwise I've been saying this for years as well and even stated Marineford as why the Marines aren't going after the Yonkou all nilly-willy. unless he was disagreeing with me or something?

I'm actually not 100% sure if the Marines would have suffered a complete loss, but Akainu and Aokiji have shown to be pretty powerful, and I'm going by OP Wiki that says if Akainu wanted, he could get to Raftel in a year or so.

Agreed with the last sentence, but if Fujitora gets rid of the shichibukai system, then that might do more damage.

 

[FetherMan]

The World Government is assuming Big Mom and Kaidou are joining forces, but the fact also is, they are aware that Kaido is already aligned his forces with the Shogun. And the Shogun are still a mystery to even the World Government, which is why, they are treading carefully in engaging either one of the Yonkou and their pirate crews.

Plus, Borsalino could more than likely take on two Yonkou by himself, given what he did with the Supernovas way back, during the slave auction, where Rayleigh was first introduced. The Admirals are powerful.

*plus, Akainu survived a duel with Whitebeard by himself and now he's running the Marines. And we don't know the true power of the 5 Elder Stars.

 

[nik87]

and I'm going by OP Wiki that says if Akainu wanted, he could get to Raftel in a year or so.

Plus, Borsalino could more than likely take on two Yonkou by himself, given what he did with the Supernovas way back, during the slave auction, where Rayleigh was first introduced. The Admirals are powerful.

I hope you two are trolling.

 

[Takuan]

Plus, Borsalino could more than likely take on two Yonkou by himself, given what he did with the Supernovas way back, during the slave auction, where Rayleigh was first introduced. The Admirals are powerful.

No dude, that's not happening i'm afraid.

 

[Zehahaha]

The World Government is assuming Big Mom and Kaidou are joining forces, but the fact also is, they are aware that Kaido is already aligned his forces with the Shogun. And the Shogun are still a mystery to even the World Government, which is why, they are treading carefully in engaging either one of the Yonkou and their pirate crews.

Plus, Borsalino could more than likely take on two Yonkou by himself, given what he did with the Supernovas way back, during the slave auction, where Rayleigh was first introduced. The Admirals are powerful.

*plus, Akainu survived a duel with Whitebeard by himself and now he's running the Marines. And we don't know the true power of the 5 Elder Stars.

As if an admiral can take on a Yonko in a 1vs1
I cannot picture this happen at all... Tho I can see Akainu pull it somehow