One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ramen]

Kaido and Whitebeard surely are the strongest, they got the WSx titles, the others never have been the strongest.

BM is on his level. She's there by extension.

 

[nik87]

BM is on his level. She's there by extension.

If she was, he wouldnt have WSC title or at least she would have it as well. Does she? Nope.
Mihawk is currently the second strongest character after Kaido.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Judge did not beat Sanji in a fair fight.!
How can you call judge using hisnsildiers as dispensable shields to block Sanji's attack...a fair fight?

Sanji would have beat judge without the interference and surprise of judge sacraficing his soldiers to get off a hit on Sanji.

I'll be an ass and add some fuel to the Zoro x Sanji fued......Sanji needs to fight already!!..holy cow oda hates Sanji & loves Zoro. Who do we have to pay in Shuihesha to get some Sanji feats.

I wasnt referring to the part where judge used the human wall. I was talking the part where judge beat sanji in the aerial fight before they continued the fight again in the ground

 

[Takuan]

Are you criticizing Cracker because he used his soldiers as shields to block Luffy's attacks?
It is a way how Judge fights, period.
As the real combatants, Luffy and Zoro themselves said, everything is allowed in a pirate fight and it's purely their fault if they cant deal with it.

Cracker using his biscuits soldiers is fair since it all comes from his own power. Judge using one of his soldiers as a shield is an exterior help.

Everything is allowed, doesn't mean it is fair. The way Judge used his soldiers was acceptable as far as pirate fights go, but it was by no means a proof that Judge is the superior fighter compared to Sanji.

 

[Shasha23]

Only fanbois think that, sorry to burst your bubble. Nowhere has it been stated in the manga people believe swords to be superior to another combat style

Yeah sure we are all fanbois of One Piece i don't see your point, who said swords are superior to every other weapon since i didnt, and why are you quoting me and replying about crap i never said?

 

[slavkovski]

Cracker using his biscuits soldiers is fair since it all comes from his own power. Judge using one of his soldiers as a shield is an exterior help.

Everything is allowed, doesn't mean it is fair. The way Judge used his soldiers was acceptable as far as pirate fights go, but it was by no means a proof that Judge is the superior fighter compared to Sanji.

The soldier are judge own power.. since you know.. judge created them.. just like cracker create biscuit soldier with his devil fruit..

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Shanks' farts are extremely toxic. He is a swordsman, but he is also a fartsman.

So of course, Shanks > Mihawk. Logic. Who cares what Oda says? We can make up our own facts!

 

[jaymizzo]

Shanks' farts are extremely toxic. He is a swordsman, but he is also a fartsman.

So of course, Shanks > Mihawk. Logic. Who cares what Oda says? We can make up our own facts!

You clearly dont care what Oda says since you know... He never said Mihawk>Shanks

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You clearly dont care what Oda says since you know... He never said Mihawk>Shanks

He did. He calls Shanks a swordsman. He calls Mihawk a swordsman.

He also gave Mihawk the title of the world's strongest swordsman.

It was also never outrightly stated that Denjiro is weaker than Mihawk... So what?

 

[HereNThere]

He did. He calls Shanks a swordsman. He calls Mihawk a swordsman.

He also gave Mihawk the title of the world's greatest swordsman.

He also said Mihawk stopped seeking Shanks after the latter lost his arm, implying that their contest was never officially settled.

Mihawk has the title, sure, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others who can contend. We have Vista, for example, who Mihawk hadn't even met before Marineford and never fought. Unless the two had it out over the timeskip, he's still a potential contender since the two never fought and Mihawk requested they postpone their duel.

Don't put too much stock into titles as they are mainly shorthand hype tools for lesser characters. There is no doubting that Mihawk is skilled and one of the most powerful characters in the series, but comparing his title to individuals who basically have the same level of hype as him is pointless.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

He also said Mihawk stopped seeking Shanks after the latter lost his arm, implying that their contest was never officially settled.

Mihawk has the title, sure, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others who can contend. We have Vista, for example, who Mihawk hadn't even met before Marineford and never fought. Unless the two had it out over the timeskip, he's still a potential contender since the two never fought and Mihawk requested they postpone their duel.

So you really believe that Oda gives titles left and right and that they don't actually mean what they imply? Yeah, unless it's revealed that Mihawk is mortally ill Imma stick with Mihawk > Shanks. Sorry. It's the simplest and most logical way to look at it.

 

[roggie]

You guys read too much between the lines. Those titles are just that, titles. They are nicknames that represent a significant trait of that said person. It's how people tell stories about them.
To apply logic to it and infer conclusions is a bit of exaggeration.
Its so evident that we can see a lot of cognitive dissonance when people try to bend reality to cope with their own theories.
Suddenly we can have the strongest men and the strongest creature and the strongest swordsman as if they shouldn't answer only one thing: who is the strongest.
By your own logic, if Kaido is the strongest creature, he is the strongest swordsman. It's just a matter of putting a sword in his hand. So i guess Oda story is incoherent and full of plot holes, right?
If you argument he is not a swordsman (which is fair) how do i know Shanks is a swordsman? Maybe he is a Yonko so Mihawk title doesn't mean he is stronger than Shanks. Yes, Shanks uses a sword, but we don't even know how he fights!
A man is a creature. Does that mean Kaido was stronger than Whitebeard? Will you argument that WB was old and ill so yeah, actually Kaido was stronger. Ok, since when?
Maybe 20 years ago they used to call WB the strongest creature and the strongest man but suddenly he got ill so everybody stopped and said: hey, lets call him just the stronges man, Kaido just got stronger than him and now is the strongest creature.
The same with Roger and Garp. Were they never the strongest? Because i dont recall any reference for them to have the title. Oh, Roger used a sword, maybe when he died suddenly people started to call Mihawk the strongest swordsman and Garp the strongest man.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah sure we are all fanbois of One Piece i don't see your point, who said swords are superior to every other weapon since i didnt, and why are you quoting me and replying about crap i never said?

"ask yourself this, why do so many people believe fighting with swords is superior to fighting without them?" You literally just wrote this."

I responded. Its how discussions work typically

 

[thedude]

Anyways, I'm done debating Shanks vs Mihawk.

@thedude Is Dragon a top 10 character?

I think he has to be. He's the leader of the revolutionaries, the worlds most wanted man. Under his command you have monsters like Sabo (who clearly uses similar fighting techniques I'm sure, his dragon claw must be something Dragon taught him) who casually destroy YC's like Burgess. He's also the son of Garp, a former top 5 most likely, and the father of Luffy, the guy who will end the story as #1 strongest.

I can't see any way Dragon isn't one of the top 10 strongest, and maybe even top 5, but we just have so little information to put him at any position.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

So I took a look at Kiadou's Crew in Wikia...and I'm somewhat incorrect but....

Why are Luffy & Zoro having trouble with Gifters....Or are they fighting unnamed Headliners???


Arent the Gifters...Sheep, Bat, Alpaca, etc
Weaker or around the level of Brooke, Franky, & Chopper....

I think there are just so many of them. You beat one wave and the next comes at you, and none of the fights are 1v1. And they aren't really having trouble with them, they are just being slowed down slightly.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020 ---

Yes because no matter what the straw hats did, they couldn't beat her or even hurt her. Someone as strong as Katakuri was scared at the thought of BM going wild, same as her other children. Luffy was one shot by Kaido, BM evenly clashed with him to the point where the beast pirates were scared of what would happen with their fight. On top of all that, she has one of the most broken DF'S.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

Also her durability is insane.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020 ---

She also laughed at Kaido when he threatened to kill her and mocked him for it.

And then she fought him all night long, and neither had injuries. So Kaido can't be #1 strongest the way some people act, and then BM is actually weak. It just isn't possible.

 

[nik87]

By your own logic, if Kaido is the strongest creature, he is the strongest swordsman. It's just a matter of putting a sword in his hand. So i guess Oda story is incoherent and full of plot holes, right?

What in seven hells is this???
Dont write a wall of text and call us out for reading too much between the lines.
You didnt make it simpler but much more complicated because you arent sticking to the author's words.

If you argument he is not a swordsman (which is fair) how do i know Shanks is a swordsman? Maybe he is a Yonko so Mihawk title doesn't mean he is stronger than Shanks. Yes, Shanks uses a sword, but we don't even know how he fights!
A man is a creature. Does that mean Kaido was stronger than Whitebeard? Will you argument that WB was old and ill so yeah, actually Kaido was stronger. Ok, since when?

How do you know Shanks is a swordsman? Because he uses a sword to fight? All 3 times when he was fighting he used his sword. No mental gymnastics.
He is a Yonko and that means Mihawk title doesnt mean he is stronger than Shanks? For gods sake, why? Why is the title invalid if Shanks is a Yonko?

Yes, Kaido is stronger than Whitebeard. WSC>WSM. If manga wasnt enough it is also confirmed in Ace novel.
Outside of manga source? Fine. Still better than our individual headcanons. You could also stick to manga which says the same.
"Land, sea or air, this pirate is said to be the strongest creature." Doesnt get clearer than that.

"Maybe this, maybe that..." isnt relevant, stick to manga facts. The author has spoken and given the titles to who he wanted.
You can stick to what the author said or you can go against his word.
What shall it be? Manga facts or headcanon which fits our individual power scaling tiers?

 

[thedude]

Only fanbois think that, sorry to burst your bubble. Nowhere has it been stated in the manga people believe swords to be superior to another combat style

Right. At Marineford, you had 3 Admirals. None used a sword. You had the strongest VA, Garp, not using a sword. And then you had Sengoku, the leader of all marines...not using a sword. WB uses a bladed weapon, but his two top commanders, Jozu and Marco, do not use a weapon. Neither does Warlord Kuma, Doflamingo, Crocodile, Hancock, or Moriah.

The WG makes a group of cyborgs to fight pirates. They give exactly 0 of them swords.

Hey...maybe Oda has been quite clear that the weapon doesn't make the character strong! That any fighting style can work in the OP world!

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

No he can't. If Buggy could, he would. Luffy was oneshot by an actual Yonko so that hype is meaningless. He was powerless against BM.

Yonko is a PL. There are many times in the series it was shown that the Yonko were the strongest.

Yea let's forget feats and whatnot and focus on a title.....lololol

Feats>>>>title. That's how it works.

If Buggy was a Yonko, the WG would immediately crush him. Meanwhile, they need months of planning to defeat a near death old Yonko, and can only do it with 100% perfect conditions on their side. But yeah...Buggy could become a Yonko lol.

(if anyone can even download the Color spread thing Nik assures us proves his point about Zoro and Nami, watch it just be an early cover, colored, before anyone else joined, and call them triggers, and Nik just extrapolated that out for his own silly purposes, as he always does lol)

 

[Pirate Queen]

Right. At Marineford, you had 3 Admirals. None used a sword. You had the strongest VA, Garp, not using a sword. And then you had Sengoku, the leader of all marines...not using a sword. WB uses a bladed weapon, but his two top commanders, Jozu and Marco, do not use a weapon. Neither does Warlord Kuma, Doflamingo, Crocodile, Hancock, or Moriah.

The WG makes a group of cyborgs to fight pirates. They give exactly 0 of them swords.

Hey...maybe Oda has been quite clear that the weapon doesn't make the character strong! That any fighting style can work in the OP world!

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

If Buggy was a Yonko, the WG would immediately crush him. Meanwhile, they need months of planning to defeat a near death old Yonko, and can only do it with 100% perfect conditions on their side. But yeah...Buggy could become a Yonko lol.

(if anyone can even download the Color spread thing Nik assures us proves his point about Zoro and Nami, watch it just be an early cover, colored, before anyone else joined, and call them triggers, and Nik just extrapolated that out for his own silly purposes, as he always does lol)

I was informed a more literal translation was something like, "For now, 3 triggers have gathered..."

Pretty much implying their would be more triggers i.e. more strawhats. But I'm not a translator so I don't know.

It a poor case to make if your trying to imply Zoro is a MC. Its just not true.

 

[thedude]

I was informed a more literal translation was something like, "For now, 3 triggers have gathered..."

Pretty much implying their would be more triggers i.e. more strawhats. But I'm not a translator so I don't know.

It a poor case to make if your trying to imply Zoro is a MC. Its just not true.

Lol, pretty much what I thought. Taking a color spread from before anyone else joins, mistranslated it (like he did with the Ace novel, remember when he obsessed over that unreleased novel not even written by Oda, but hasn't mentioned it once since it came out?), all to pretend that Zoro is the co-main character with Luffy.

Anyway, even if that was true, that also means Nami is another co-MC....and that doesn't imply that she is strong on Luffy's or Zoro's level. It's all rather pointless, but I hope this buries the idiotic "debate".

 

[Aliocha]

Only fanbois think that, sorry to burst your bubble. Nowhere has it been stated in the manga people believe swords to be superior to another combat style

Exactly

This is just a fictional world where a man can kick at the speed of light, and things like that exist:

I really don't care about how blades can cut meat in the real world or things like that, since the introduction of haki at the end all that matters is the feats shown in the manga.

Luffy defeats people stronger than Zoro, so he is stronger than Zoro. For those who think otherwise, just post zoro defeating and cutting people stronger than Luffy, until then it doesn't matter if he uses swords or not

 

[Takuan]

The soldier are judge own power.. since you know.. judge created them.. just like cracker create biscuit soldier with his devil fruit..

I guess if the entire Vinsmoke family attacks Luffy and wins, it would mean Judge is stronger than Luffy. Since you know... Judge created the Vinsmokes sibblings.
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense buddy.