One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ramen]

I didn't "bring Sanji into the conversation", what I brought is one argument you have made multiple times when debating with me and I compared it with the argument you're making about Smoker now. I have nothing to discuss with you about Sanji's power level and saying his name doens't mean that I'm doing that.

Non-canon is non-canon. Everything in that movie is non-canon. You can't argue any points about some non-canon source somehow proving Smoker is above Doflamingo.
You accept things from non-canon sources when they suit you (Smoker's "status" in Stampede), but disregard them when they don't (Page One being just fine in the anime).


We all agree on that and it's not what we're discussing about.

Who are your top 5-10 strongest EOS characters?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

I wonder... does brook have haki? His body is a weird thing within OP so there is a good chance he doesn't have any. On one hand, his body can heal from wounds which sounds like something a living thing could do. On the other it appears he can't grow his hair, which is a decidedly dead thing unless he is bald or something to that effect. If his chill actuall replaces haki... or is some manner of haki (since it's his soul's power) then I suppose he is actually fairly advanced as a haki user in a way. Gotta wonder if brook has a mode where he covers his entire body in the underworld's chill....

I don't know if he'd use armament given his skeleton body but it would be nice to see him us CoO.

 

[King Moe]

I didn't "bring Sanji into the conversation", what I brought is one argument you have made multiple times when debating with me and I compared it with the argument you're making about Smoker now. I have nothing to discuss with you about Sanji's power level and saying his name doens't mean that I'm doing that.

Non-canon is non-canon. Everything in that movie is non-canon. You can't argue any points about some non-canon source somehow proving Smoker is above Doflamingo.
You accept things from non-canon sources when they suit you (Smoker's "status" in Stampede), but disregard them when they don't (Page One being just fine in the anime).


We all agree on that and it's not what we're discussing about.

Nah, you did as I was talking about Smoker and then you bring up Sanji into this your post previously.

Yeah, it is non-canon, but not characters though who Oda see on their value and importance. Your misunderstanding on what I mean between events and canon importance of them. I never said Anime is always Canon, more opposite as I am hearing you on that. Also Anime also push Batman over Luffy and Zoro unlike in manga, so do you want believe that as well changes they do different?

Then we shouldn't continue talking if you understand that.

 

[kkck]

I don't know if he'd use armament given his skeleton body but it would be nice to see him us CoO.

Armament makes a ton of sense for his skeleton body. He absolutely needs to protect it, though I suppose it'd make sense if he focuses his defense on his blade.

 

[Ramen]

Armament makes a ton of sense for his skeleton body. He absolutely needs to protect it, though I suppose it'd make sense if he focuses his defense on his blade.

He can learn it general and then use it freely on his body or his blade.

 

[Nie Li]

Nah, you did as I was talking about Smoker and then you bring up Sanji into this your post previously.

Yeah, it is non-canon, but not characters though who Oda see on their value and importance. Your misunderstanding on what I mean between events and canon importance of them. I never said Anime is always Canon, more opposite as I am hearing you on that. Also Anime also push Batman over Luffy and Zoro unlike in manga, so do you want believe that as well changes they do different?

Then we shouldn't continue talking if you understand that.

You're not making much sense. I'm starting to believe there's a language barrier between us.
I'm not trying to push the anime as canon, I said it's not in my post. I'm pointing out that you cherrypick, that's all, and you do.

Who are your top 5-10 strongest EOS characters?

Never given it a thought tbh, so if I thought about it for longer I'd probably change some of the ranks, but I'll give it a quick go.

I'd put Im or someone from the Gorosei here but we know nothing of their actual strength so I'll ignore them. I'll also leave out Dragon, Kong and Kurohige's YC for the same reason, other than perhaps Shiryu.

If we assume all the characters will arrive alive to the EOS:

1- Luffy (Pirate King and goes even beyond that by fulfilling the prophecy or whatever).
2- Blackbeard ( Blackbeard is the strongest Worst Generation (and pirate in general) rival of Luffy, and one of the most hated characters in the series for capturing Ace and killing Whitebeard, so he'll be an opponent only Luffy can take down, possibly at Laugh Tale).
3- Sabo (Sabo was already ranked higher than Ivankov pre-Mera Mera. He was already a beast just with the martial arts he learnt from Dragon, and despite how weak he was as a child, he was actually stronger than Luffy when he first appeared at Dressrosa. Give him time to get used to the Mera Mera no mi and some more months or years of training and he's an absolute top tier that I could see coming close to Luffy. Actually, I think it'll be cool if he's the one to defeat Akainu to avenge Ace, given that he's wielding Ace's abilities that are supposedly unadvantaged against Akainu's magma).
4- Zoro (He's possibly lower, I don't know but I'll place him here because of all the people I left out of the top. It's also possible that he'll beat the "Gandhi Gorosei" in the future and that'd rank him pretty high, but he's already high as hell if he surpasses Mihawk).
5- Mihawk (I want Zoro to surpass him but I don't want any other swordsman to do so so I'll put him here).
6- Shanks (His caution with Blackbeard make me already rank him lower than him, and I'm of the theory that Shanks is weaker than Mihawk even if not by much, so I'll just rank him right below him even in EOS).
7- Kaido (If he gets taken down as a team effort, he can stay top 7 or even top 5 even in EOS. Since I think he won't lose a 1vs1 in this arc then he'll probably never go down in the tiers and it's possible I'm not giving him enough credit here).
8- Law (He should stay as a rival to Luffy until the EOS but I don't see him surpassing the likes of Blackbeard, or Mihawk with the sword, even if combined with his DF, so I'll just leave him here).
9- Akainu? (Similar to Blackbeard, he's the most hated marine for killing Ace and hurting Whitebeard and the guy with the most authority other than Kong).
10- Aokiji (Either him or a pirate like Ben Beckman or Kidd).


Yeeeah... I've no idea where to place Big Mom, but I think she will be irrelevant in EOS. Her fruit isn't that dangerous when compared to some of the other abilities in the series and she's goofy. Her real strengths are swordsmanship and her surreal brute strength and CoA defense, but that'll probably amount to nothing against real EOS characters. Or at least, that's what I think.

Some of the characters I listed may not even be relevant in the EOS, and some of them would disappear from the top if we had info on Dragon and the others' actual strengths.


So, yeah, what do you think? I don't want to enter a Mihawk-Shanks debate so let's skip that point.

 

[Ramen]

You're not making much sense. I'm starting to believe there's a language barrier between us.
I'm not trying to push the anime as canon, I said it's not in my post. I'm pointing out that you cherrypick, that's all, and you do.


Never given it a thought tbh, so if I thought about it for longer I'd probably change some of the ranks, but I'll give it a quick go.

I'd put Im or someone from the Gorosei here but we know nothing of their actual strength so I'll ignore them. I'll also leave out Dragon, Kong and Kurohige's YC for the same reason, other than perhaps Shiryu.

If we assume all the characters will arrive alive to the EOS:

1- Luffy (Pirate King and goes even beyond that by fulfilling the prophecy or whatever).
2- Blackbeard ( Blackbeard is the strongest Worst Generation (and pirate in general) rival of Luffy, and one of the most hated characters in the series for capturing Ace and killing Whitebeard, so he'll be an opponent only Luffy can take down, possibly at Laugh Tale).
3- Sabo (Sabo was already ranked higher than Ivankov pre-Mera Mera. He was already a beast just with the martial arts he learnt from Dragon, and despite how weak he was as a child, he was actually stronger than Luffy when he first appeared at Dressrosa. Give him time to get used to the Mera Mera no mi and some more months or years of training and he's an absolute top tier that I could see coming close to Luffy. Actually, I think it'll be cool if he's the one to defeat Akainu to avenge Ace, given that he's wielding Ace's abilities that are supposedly unadvantaged against Akainu's magma).
4- Zoro (He's possibly lower, I don't know but I'll place him here because of all the people I left out of the top. It's also possible that he'll beat the "Gandhi Gorosei" in the future and that'd rank him pretty high, but he's already high as hell if he surpasses Mihawk).
5- Mihawk (I want Zoro to surpass him but I don't want any other swordsman to do so so I'll put him here).
6- Shanks (His caution with Blackbeard make me already rank him lower than him, and I'm of the theory that Shanks is weaker than Mihawk even if not by much, so I'll just rank him right below him even in EOS).
7- Kaido (If he gets taken down as a team effort, he can stay top 7 or even top 5 even in EOS. Since I think he won't lose a 1vs1 in this arc then he'll probably never go down in the tiers and it's possible I'm not giving him enough credit here).
8- Law (He should stay as a rival to Luffy until the EOS but I don't see him surpassing the likes of Blackbeard, or Mihawk with the sword, even if combined with his DF, so I'll just leave him here).
9- Akainu? (Similar to Blackbeard, he's the most hated marine for killing Ace and hurting Whitebeard and the guy with the most authority other than Kong).
10- Aokiji (Either him or a pirate like Ben Beckman or Kidd).


Yeeeah... I've no idea where to place Big Mom, but I think she will be irrelevant in EOS. Her fruit isn't that dangerous when compared to some of the other abilities in the series and she's goofy. Her real strengths are swordsmanship and her surreal brute strength and CoA defense, but that'll probably amount to nothing against real EOS characters. Or at least, that's what I think.

Some of the characters I listed may not even be relevant in the EOS, and some of them would disappear from the top if we had info on Dragon and the others' actual strengths.


So, yeah, what do you think? I don't want to enter a Mihawk-Shanks debate so let's skip that point.

I agree with a lot of the list. Personally my list would go:

1) Luffy
2) Kidd
3) Law
4) Blackbeard
5) Fujitora
6) Dragon
7) Sabo
8) Shanks
9) Zoro
10) Tough but I have three candidates for this one; Akainu, Aokiji and Kaido.


That debate is pure headcanon at the moment so I'd rather not get into it.

It seems though me and you look at the ending of OP differently though.

 

[goldb]

Agree to Disagree on that Smoker's position then as we can discuss this another time along with my list don't agree on that either. I will make changes when we see Smoker again to judge what he is currently if he does get stronger to be in Top 30 or not.

It's YOUR list that I've corrected, so either Smoker currently is in your top 30 or he isn't LOL, you can't tell ME to agree to disagree . So if you're saying you will wait until we see Smoker again to judge whether he's in the top 30 characters, it means you admit that currently he isn't and like the rest of us that can't prove otherwise, you want to wait until we get more information from the manga to judge his strength. You're making this so much harder than it needs to be.

You know it's more of placements than them actually being like them, right? For example, we know many see Roger in Luffy, but they still have different ways of going about things while similar. Same thing with Smoker and Garp, but we can see them taking positions of the past generation given similar vibe and series in heading on New Generation to make names for themselves nowadays. Also true, but I see at EOS that big changes will happen before or after it with Gorosei and Celestial Dragons no more in controlling WG to their standards especially if Imu-Sama is final villain of the series and will be defeated.

Okay so if it's about placements and people have been comparing Luffy to Roger, then doesn't that mean Smoker being like Garp implies him remaining in the same placement as him? (Vice Admiral), since as you said "but they still have different ways of going about things while similar".

Of course if you're then talking about Smoker at the end of the series (if the WG and Celestial Dragons are defeated) becoming an Admiral/Fleet Admiral then again, that doesn't make him like Garp, because Garp himself chose to remain at the VA because already at that position he could what he wanted (ch0).

So your argument that Smoker is like Garp only works if you intend for him to remain as VA and chase pirates even after the WG is toppled.

 

[Nie Li]

I agree with a lot of the list. Personally my list would go:

1) Luffy
2) Kidd
3) Law
4) Blackbeard
5) Fujitora
6) Dragon
7) Sabo
8) Shanks
9) Zoro
10) Tough but I have three candidates for this one; Akainu, Aokiji and Kaido.


That debate is pure headcanon at the moment so I'd rather not get into it.

It seems though me and you look at the ending of OP differently though.

It's a very similar list overall other than the Mihawk thing. I think what's most different is that you rated Kidd and Law higher than I did. I do see them as Luffy's rivals and I think they'll be feared through the world in the end, but I think Blackbeard is a worse menace for Luffy than they are.

How do you think the ending will unfold? Although I don't know if this is the right thread for that conversation.

 

[Ramen]

If we're talking about the "Next Garp" and who's going to be Luffy's rival from the marines, it makes more sense for Coby than Smoker anyways.

 

[Nie Li]

I mostly support the parallelisms between the Strawhats and Roger's pirates but I think it's a stretch to try and make everything about Luffy's journey be just a reflection of Roger's.

There might not be a "Garp" for him, or there might be more than one, since he has clashed more than once with more than one marine officer.

 

[goldb]

Also guys, I never thought I'd have to say this but using anime-only examples in discussions here is a no-go. Because we've seen some absurd things in the anime that doesn't happen in the manga, so it's only to be used as a means to provide clarity to manga pages.

 

[Ramen]

I mostly support the parallelisms between the Strawhats and Roger's pirates but I think it's a stretch to try and make everything about Luffy's journey be just a reflection of Roger's.

There might not be a "Garp" for him, or there might be more than one, since he has clashed more than once with more than one marine officer.

Luffy seems to be more infamous than Roger down the line anyways so it makes sense for him to have more "rivals"

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Also guys, I never thought I'd have to say this but using anime-only examples in discussions here is a no-go. Because we've seen some absurd things in the anime that doesn't happen in the manga, so it's only to be used as a means to provide clarity to manga pages.

Wait like anime movies or anime in general?

 

[goldb]

Wait like anime movies or anime in general?

Anime in general. If it doesn't happen in the manga, how can it be considered canon? Unless there's a particular instance that an event is included in the anime but not the manga because Oda didn't have time( or whatever the reason), then sure. Otherwise anime= no good.

 

[King Moe]

You're not making much sense. I'm starting to believe there's a language barrier between us.
I'm not trying to push the anime as canon, I said it's not in my post. I'm pointing out that you cherrypick, that's all, and you do.


Never given it a thought tbh, so if I thought about it for longer I'd probably change some of the ranks, but I'll give it a quick go.

I'd put Im or someone from the Gorosei here but we know nothing of their actual strength so I'll ignore them. I'll also leave out Dragon, Kong and Kurohige's YC for the same reason, other than perhaps Shiryu.

If we assume all the characters will arrive alive to the EOS:

1- Luffy (Pirate King and goes even beyond that by fulfilling the prophecy or whatever).
2- Blackbeard ( Blackbeard is the strongest Worst Generation (and pirate in general) rival of Luffy, and one of the most hated characters in the series for capturing Ace and killing Whitebeard, so he'll be an opponent only Luffy can take down, possibly at Laugh Tale).
3- Sabo (Sabo was already ranked higher than Ivankov pre-Mera Mera. He was already a beast just with the martial arts he learnt from Dragon, and despite how weak he was as a child, he was actually stronger than Luffy when he first appeared at Dressrosa. Give him time to get used to the Mera Mera no mi and some more months or years of training and he's an absolute top tier that I could see coming close to Luffy. Actually, I think it'll be cool if he's the one to defeat Akainu to avenge Ace, given that he's wielding Ace's abilities that are supposedly unadvantaged against Akainu's magma).
4- Zoro (He's possibly lower, I don't know but I'll place him here because of all the people I left out of the top. It's also possible that he'll beat the "Gandhi Gorosei" in the future and that'd rank him pretty high, but he's already high as hell if he surpasses Mihawk).
5- Mihawk (I want Zoro to surpass him but I don't want any other swordsman to do so so I'll put him here).
6- Shanks (His caution with Blackbeard make me already rank him lower than him, and I'm of the theory that Shanks is weaker than Mihawk even if not by much, so I'll just rank him right below him even in EOS).
7- Kaido (If he gets taken down as a team effort, he can stay top 7 or even top 5 even in EOS. Since I think he won't lose a 1vs1 in this arc then he'll probably never go down in the tiers and it's possible I'm not giving him enough credit here).
8- Law (He should stay as a rival to Luffy until the EOS but I don't see him surpassing the likes of Blackbeard, or Mihawk with the sword, even if combined with his DF, so I'll just leave him here).
9- Akainu? (Similar to Blackbeard, he's the most hated marine for killing Ace and hurting Whitebeard and the guy with the most authority other than Kong).
10- Aokiji (Either him or a pirate like Ben Beckman or Kidd).


Yeeeah... I've no idea where to place Big Mom, but I think she will be irrelevant in EOS. Her fruit isn't that dangerous when compared to some of the other abilities in the series and she's goofy. Her real strengths are swordsmanship and her surreal brute strength and CoA defense, but that'll probably amount to nothing against real EOS characters. Or at least, that's what I think.

Some of the characters I listed may not even be relevant in the EOS, and some of them would disappear from the top if we had info on Dragon and the others' actual strengths.


So, yeah, what do you think? I don't want to enter a Mihawk-Shanks debate so let's skip that point.

Think more your always misunderstand what I mean in narration. Got check posts carefully as I am not stating neither what you mean nor cherrypicking. Just don't bring stuff that has nothing to do with conversation and talk another time then.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

It's YOUR list that I've corrected, so either Smoker currently is in your top 30 or he isn't LOL, you can't tell ME to agree to disagree . So if you're saying you will wait until we see Smoker again to judge whether he's in the top 30 characters, it means you admit that currently he isn't and like the rest of us that can't prove otherwise, you want to wait until we get more information from the manga to judge his strength. You're making this so much harder than it needs to be.



Okay so if it's about placements and people have been comparing Luffy to Roger, then doesn't that mean Smoker being like Garp implies him remaining in the same placement as him? (Vice Admiral), since as you said "but they still have different ways of going about things while similar".

Of course if you're then talking about Smoker at the end of the series (if the WG and Celestial Dragons are defeated) becoming an Admiral/Fleet Admiral then again, that doesn't make him like Garp, because Garp himself chose to remain at the VA because already at that position he could what he wanted (ch0).

So your argument that Smoker is like Garp only works if you intend for him to remain as VA and chase pirates even after the WG is toppled.

I say his PH lvl version is which I agree. Though we don't know his current version, but I feel next time we see him he come back top 30 and I will agree to do changes like you want me when we visit the topic again when we see him.

I said they have similar traits, but won't exactly be the same on what who they going to be. Luffy isn't going to be like Roger all the way as he be his own person as well Smoker to Garp as similar, but different on where they lead to. I see Smoker going to FA as staying VA has no sense to him much on why he does that. Just stating on traits they share with those they remind in the series from past generation when Roger was around. Not necessarily they be 100% like them as again they are their own person too. Obvious there will be differences between both characters xD.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020 ---

If we're talking about the "Next Garp" and who's going to be Luffy's rival from the marines, it makes more sense for Coby than Smoker anyways.

Nah, Coby is too fanboy to be like next one and plus being Admiral will be something Luffy already surpassed and don't see Coby being that guy. He is next Aokiji, but not same level where Smoker heading to want to be more of honest major rival to him and give more of Garp vibes than Coby does.

 

[Ramen]

Smoker is not a rival to Luffy in any sense. To be a rival to someone, you have to be relative in strength.

Smoker does not give Garp vibes. Actually it's Coby that does. Coby is the one that was trained by Garp and moves around with him.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

@goldb Seems like the Smoker debates are irrelevant at this point.

 

[afromarco005]

Yea like 1v1s in pure H2H.

Strongest hand to hand combattants il a 1v1 are imo

Akainu
Kaido
Prime Garp
Diamond Jozu
Boa Hancock
Jimbe
Luffy
Old garp

 

[Ramen]

Strongest hand to hand combattants il a 1v1 are imo

Akainu
Kaido
Prime Garp
Diamond Jozu
Boa Hancock
Jimbe
Luffy
Old garp

Damn I forgot Jozu and Jinbei. Good list.

 

[King Moe]

I think the top 10 EOS characters will be:

1. Luffy
2. Kidd
3. Law
4. Smoker
5. Blackbeard
6. Sanji and Zoro
7. Sabo
8. Hina
9. Coby
10. Yamato

I am debating on putting Hina and Coby as Idk how strong he be even be Admiral as EOS TOP 10 is stretch to say for him and for Hina, could see her being next Sengoku or Tsuru given they have same vibe relationship with Smoker like Garp will be to Sengoku and Tsuru and they are powerful beings respectfully.

Plus there got be few strong EOS Females who can reach top 10 and could be Hina and Yamato, but again could edit this later when to give it more thought.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Smoker is not a rival to Luffy in any sense. To be a rival to someone, you have to be relative in strength.

Smoker does not give Garp vibes. Actually it's Coby that does. Coby is the one that was trained by Garp and moves around with him.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

@goldb Seems like the Smoker debates are irrelevant at this point.

Lol, give me where Garp was fanboy to Roger as his attitude was not like that and more of Smoker. Coby is giving me like Aokiji who also is fanboy given how we saw flashback of him admiring Garp like fanboy would, so it shows more. Smoker is his major Marine Rival, it's not Coby at all no matter how you want push as can't see guy who too fanboy to be enough to challenge Luffy lol.

 

[Ramen]

I think the top 10 EOS characters will be:

1. Luffy
2. Kidd
3. Law
4. Smoker
5. Blackbeard
6. Sanji and Zoro
7. Sabo
8. Hina
9. Coby
10. Yamato

I am debating on putting Hina and Coby as Idk how strong he be even be Admiral as EOS TOP 10 is stretch to say for him and for Hina, could see her being next Sengoku or Tsuru given they have same vibe relationship with Smoker like Garp will be to Sengoku and Tsuru and they are powerful beings respectfully.

Plus there got be few strong EOS Females who can reach top 10 and could be Hina and Yamato, but again could edit this later when to give it more thought.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Lol, give me where Garp was fanboy to Roger as his attitude was not like that and more of Smoker. Coby is giving me like Aokiji who also is fanboy given how we saw flashback of him admiring Garp like fanboy would, so it shows more. Smoker is his major Marine Rival, it's not Coby at all no matter how you want push as can't see guy who too fanboy to be enough to challenge Luffy lol.

When did I mention fanboy?

Smoker can't challenge Luffy either. You accuse us of pushing a narrative but you do the exact same. You keep saying "I believe" or "I see it as" as if your Oda.

 

[King Moe]

When did I mention fanboy?

Smoker can't challenge Luffy either. You accuse us of pushing a narrative but you do the exact same.

He is, man. He is only major one who have rivalry with the crew and grows with him. Coby we seen how he was when they face and was one-shot material. It's not pushing narration, it call using logical and see difference. Though logical goes out the window with you seeing how your going by in your posts.