One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ramen]

It's very hard to say why Garp can or can't be that strong because we never saw Garp go all out. Even at Marineford, if we were to judge him only by that, the only thing he did was getting smacked out of the way by Luffy (although obviously on purpose on Garp's side).

But if we take to heart that he teamed up with Roger to kick the Rocks' asses and that he really is "the Legendary marine", then he should be able to give the likes of Kaido a hard time.

We can also use the fact that even after, he was considered a rival to the likes of Roger and Primebeard. No DF or weapon, just his fists.

 

[kkck]

Honestly, smoker being even in a top 50 is insane... There are way too many vice admirals who have way more experience than him and several others that even were considered for the admiral position when aokiji retired and akainu got promoted. All of the big name VAs are probably well stronger than smoker.. Most yonko executives are probably stronger than smoker as well. Maybe there are a few low tier executives he can take though to me it's a stretch based on his punk hazard performance. And yonko executives alone make up about 40-ish people...

No idea if dragon is stronger or weaker than a yonko though I suppose it makes sense to hold him in comparable regard. i suppose my list would look more or less like this:

1. Kaido
2. Big mom
3. Shanks
4. Dragon
5. Blackbeard
6. Akainu
7. Aokiji
8. Kizaru
9. Fujitora
10. Ryokugyu
11. oden
12. Mihawk
13. Luffy
14. Marco
15. Beckham
16. King
17. Katakuri
18. Lucky rou
19. jozu
20. Vista
21. Queen
22. Smoothie
23. Jack
24. Cracker
25. Hancock
26. Garp
27. Sengoku
28. Weevil
29. Doflamingo
30. Gion
31. tokikake
32. Remaining yonko executives (Oven-daifukus of the world,bulk of WB commanders)
33. big name VAs (the ones showcased in marineford),
34. Supernovas, big name affiliated crews
35. Bulk of VAs.

Now some additional context regarding this list:

The list IS fuzzy. As in, there is plenty of wiggle room for characters to be higher or lower. Some people are rather low in the list but that is mostly because I just didn't know where else to put them. That goes mostly for garp, sengoku and hancock. They could be higher but we don't know to what extent age has weakened garp and sengoku and it's pretty clear that everyone above in that list is pretty much a legendary pirate/marine by now as well. At their prime at least both of them would be above akainu IMO. Hancock I hold in very high regard, I kinda buy into her hype, but it's just impossible to determine whether she holds a candle to top 3 YC or admirals. I believe she could be there but given the lack of specifics I settled for putting her immediately after them in the list. Gion and tokitake are pretty much fringe characters but that they were considered for the admiral position speaks volumes of their strength in any scenario. Beckham seems a tad lowish in the list, maybe he'd beat marco... Oden believe was nigh yonko level at the time but kaido has probably grown stronger since then. He is kinda there on hype but his real spot would probably be below there. Not too low though, nigh yonko level sounds like it could be comfortable in the admiral tier.

BB is kinda lowish on the list but that is mostly because as a new yonko I believe he has some catching up to do with them. His pre time skip performance doesn't exactly scream yonko tier. Add to that it's kinda hard to imagine his yami fruit crippling kaido and big mom... Would big mom's homies even deactivate from it?

I didn't include any supernova mostly because I am currently of the idea that among them luffy is exceptional with a wide margin. Once we have actual feats from them I am willing to reconsider the list. Any one that soloes a top 3 YC would immediately shake up the list.

Smoker is considered to be in the bulk of VAs tier. He is more likely to make an appearance in a top 100 list character. Supernovas could be lower or higher than that spot, but they lack feats. As in, zoro, kid, law, urogue... Urogue has at least beaten a yonko commander but it's just maybe YC4-5 so he doesn't really make the list. Doflamingo i was surprised to include in the list at all, I figured he'd be in a bulk tier but I kinda ran out of people. I feel he is just below YC3 in general.

 

[King Moe]

Hell, yeah, a non-canon movie is reason to hype Smoker to be stronger than Doflamingo, but the anime episode adaptation of the manga showing Page One being just fine after clashing with Sanji is a sacrilege.

You cherrypick a lot.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

It's very hard to say why Garp can or can't be that strong because we never saw Garp go all out. Even at Marineford, if we were to judge him only by that, the only thing he did was getting smacked out of the way by Luffy (although obviously on purpose on Garp's side).

But if we take to heart that he teamed up with Roger to kick the Rocks' asses and that he really is "the Legendary marine", then he should be able to give the likes of Kaido a hard time.

Sanji went to face Lucci too who can match Sabo in previous movie to it as well. Talking about position, not events. Also you know Zoro went to facing Fujitora to somehow unable to stop Crocodile as well, so of course fights are non-canon, but status and importance of characters are canon. Not cherrying picking, it's canon fact. Aren't Law, Sabo, Smoker, Hancock, Crocodile, Lucci, and Buggy not one of the more prominent characters outside of Luffy's crew? If you said no, your just force narration again.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Nah, I seen you just as a big fan for Law can come to many defense on him.

Wow. I have never did that lol. I have Never. quote me then

 

[Ramen]

Wow. I have never did that lol. I have Never. quote me then

Don't bother. There's a pattern of him putting words in people's mouths.

 

[I Am Atomic]

@Moegara @Brandish μ

Switching topics:

Is Garp the strongest H2H character in One Piece?

I wouldn't say so. WB, Garp, Shiki, Roger all around same level imo. All of them are crazy 1v1.

 

[Nie Li]

We can also use the fact that even after, he was considered a rival to the likes of Roger and Primebeard. No DF or weapon, just his fists.

The fact that he's a pure brawler is a very cool trait of his, but as impressive as it is, it wouldn't be a valid excuse if he was to ever lose against someone who on top of having strong haki, also has a strong DF or weapon.

I wish he gets a fight in the last arc, just to show us a second glimpse of the strength of his era (the first glimpse being Whitebeard at Marineford).

Sanji went to face Lucci too who can match Sabo in previous movie to it as well. Talking about position, not events. Also you know Zoro went to facing Fujitora to somehow unable to stop Crocodile as well, so of course fights are non-canon, but status and importance of characters are canon. Not cherrying picking, it's canon fact. Aren't Law, Sabo, Smoker, Hancock, Crocodile, Lucci, and Buggy not one of the more prominent characters outside of Luffy's crew? If you said no, your just force narration again.

About the sentences I bolded out:
So "positions" from non-canon material have value while events don't? Either nothing from the non-canon sources has value or everything hasn't (it doesn't). If you're selective about it, it's cherry picking. According to what you're saying, if we can tell Smoker is above Doflamingo now because of how he was depicted in some non-canon movie, then Crocodile should also be on Fujitora and Zoro's level going by the events you yourself just described.

About the whole rest of your paragraph:
Law, Sabo, Smoker, Hancock, Crocodile, Lucci and Buggy are... not all of them prominent characters outside of Luffy's crew. I'd love for Lucci to be more prominent and I have hyped him up and his strength in this forum in the past, but he really is just some tertiary character.

But, even if they were "the more prominent characteres outside of the main cast", so what? Even if they were as prominent as Ace or Vivi were for a while, that doesn't mean non-canon sources have any validity, or that we can make up exactly how much they grow while they're absent from the series. Smoker especially already disappointed us with his limited growth during the timeskip (limited when compared to the main casts' and Law's growth).

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Also what does Sanji facing Lucci or Lucci facing Sabo in some movie have to do with anything?

 

[Ramen]

The fact that he's a pure brawler is a very cool trait of his, but as impressive as it is, it wouldn't be a valid excuse if he was to ever lose against someone who on top of having strong haki, also has a strong DF or weapon.

I wish he gets a fight in the last arc, just to show us a second glimpse of the strength of his era (the first glimpse being Whitebeard at Marineford).

I meant H2H, no weapon or DF.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Also what does Sanji facing Lucci or Lucci facing Sabo in some movie have to do with anything?

It wasn't even a fight. In Stampede they used their legs to attack each other once and that's it.

Sabo and Lucci had a small skirmish in the Gold movie when both sides didn't care. Not a fight lol.

 

[King Moe]

Don't bother. There's a pattern of him putting words in people's mouths.

Please don't be hypocritical in your talks. Your last one to discuss on 'putting words' in others.

 

[Nie Li]

I meant H2H, no weapon or DF.

Ah, sorry, I hadn't properly understood what it meant.

Then... I still don't know if he would beat Kaido and Big Mom, but yeah, if we're taking weapons and DF's out of the equation he squashes all of the admirals, Blackbeard and Mihawk. Garp's a beast in that domain.

It wasn't even a fight. In Stampede they used their legs to attack each other once and that's it.

Sabo and Lucci had a small skirmish in the Gold movie when both sides didn't care. Not a fight lol.

I haven't watched Stampede yet. I only saw on YouTube the scene with the meteor and Mihawk and it reminded me a lot of that movie with Sasuke breaking down some meteor.

Either way I can't really say anything about the movie but if the movie's not canon, then it's not and that's it.

 

[Ramen]

Please don't be hypocritical in your talks. Your last one to discuss on 'putting words' in others.

I have never done anything like that. When have I ever done that? lol

I don't even talk to you if it wasn't for the Smoker thing lmao.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I meant H2H, no weapon or DF.

Still WB with his DF got more destructiveness with OP haki. I don't think he is the strongest.

 

[King Moe]

The fact that he's a pure brawler is a very cool trait of his, but as impressive as it is, it wouldn't be a valid excuse if he was to ever lose against someone who on top of having strong haki, also has a strong DF or weapon.

I wish he gets a fight in the last arc, just to show us a second glimpse of the strength of his era (the first glimpse being Whitebeard at Marineford).


About the sentences I bolded out:
So "positions" from non-canon material have value while events don't? Either nothing from the non-canon sources has value or everything hasn't (it doesn't). If you're selective about it, it's cherry picking. According to what you're saying, if we can tell Smoker is above Doflamingo now because of how he was depicted in some non-canon movie, then Crocodile should also be on Fujitora and Zoro's level going by the events you yourself just described.

About the whole rest of your paragraph:
Law, Sabo, Smoker, Hancock, Crocodile, Lucci and Buggy are... not all of them prominent characters outside of Luffy's crew. I'd love for Lucci to be more prominent and I have hyped him up and his strength in this forum in the past, but he really is just some tertiary character.

But, even if they were "the more prominent characteres outside of the main cast", so what? Even if they were as prominent as Ace or Vivi were for a while, that doesn't mean non-canon sources have any validity, or that we can make up exactly how much they grow while they're absent from the series. Smoker especially already disappointed us with his limited growth during the timeskip (limited when compared to the main casts' and Law's growth).

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Also what does Sanji facing Lucci or Lucci facing Sabo in some movie have to do with anything?

You know I said non-canon as in fights and power-scaling right? How did you not understand what I mean there? I was using example since you brought Sanji talks again when I didn't bring him into conversation.

Meaning we will see them around later into the story and they not done going forward which Smoker is among them. Next time we see him, he be stronger and still have importance just like the others.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020 ---

I have never done anything like that. When have I ever done that? lol

I don't even talk to you if it wasn't for the Smoker thing lmao.

Whatever help you sleep at night. I don't expect fans like you to be honest in fault XD.

 

[Ramen]

Whatever help you sleep at night. I don't expect fans like you to be honest in fault XD.

So you won't bring an example? Ok lol.

Keep telling people I said "Zoro will be the strongest of all."

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2020 ---

Still WB with his DF got more destructiveness with OP haki. I don't think he is the strongest.

I want like a one shot of WB's true strength in his prime. That would be insane.

 

[King Moe]

So you won't bring an example? Ok lol.

Keep telling people I said "Zoro will be the strongest of all."

Think our long conversation is proof of that. What more is there?

You put parts of that among your conversation especially use WSS why he be stronger than others like Sanji. Again we going back in circles. If you can't admit fault, then we not getting anywhere.

Let's stop talking until another time to each other.

 

[Nie Li]

You know I said non-canon as in fights and power-scaling right? How did you not understand what I mean there? I was using example since you brought Sanji talks again when I didn't bring him into conversation.

I didn't "bring Sanji into the conversation", what I brought is one argument you have made multiple times when debating with me and I compared it with the argument you're making about Smoker now. I have nothing to discuss with you about Sanji's power level and saying his name doens't mean that I'm doing that.

Non-canon is non-canon. Everything in that movie is non-canon. You can't argue any points about some non-canon source somehow proving Smoker is above Doflamingo.
You accept things from non-canon sources when they suit you (Smoker's "status" in Stampede), but disregard them when they don't (Page One being just fine in the anime).

Meaning we will see them around later into the story and they not done going forward which Smoker is among them. Next time we see him, he be stronger and still have importance just like the others.

We all agree on that and it's not what we're discussing about.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I want like a one shot of WB's true strength in his prime. That would be insane.

We saw the short clash between WB and Roger. Their weapons didn't even touch. Even Oden was flung away by Roger.

 

[Ramen]

We saw the short clash between WB and Roger. Their weapons didn't even touch. Even Oden was flung away by Roger.

Yea but just like one chapter to see how moved around in his prime after Roger passed. Since his main rival is gone now.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Let's stop talking until another time to each other.

Good decision. Lets come back to Sanji when we get the next chapter.

 

[kkck]

I wonder... does brook have haki? His body is a weird thing within OP so there is a good chance he doesn't have any. On one hand, his body can heal from wounds which sounds like something a living thing could do. On the other it appears he can't grow his hair, which is a decidedly dead thing unless he is bald or something to that effect. If his chill actuall replaces haki... or is some manner of haki (since it's his soul's power) then I suppose he is actually fairly advanced as a haki user in a way. Gotta wonder if brook has a mode where he covers his entire body in the underworld's chill....