One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Found the post I alluded to yesterday. Turns out it was from this very thread.

Despite the big (and well-deserved) number of likes, some people missed them, and since these are some very interesting posts, whether you want to take the novel as canon or not, I'm linkin them as a second chance to read them.

One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board. It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release. For the sake of...

mangahelpers.com

One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board. It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release. For the sake of...

mangahelpers.com

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

If we're talking about ignoring the barrier rather than damaging it, then Señor Pink probably can do it too.

Blueno would just make a door through the barrier.

 

[Nie Li]

Blueno would just make a door through the barrier.

I hadn't thought of that. Blueno is his ultimate counter. xD

 

[LadyVados]

• Ace's cat pet/crewmember did not trust Blackbeard and his very presence put the animal on edge.

Who’s Who ?

[*]Despite her being from the same generation as WB, Big Mom isn't thought of as a traditional pirate any more since she mostly stays in her kingdom. She was referred to as a "Landlubber".

Maybe BM is not included in Kaido’s strongest pirate statement ?

When that happens, Zoro will fight Shiryu. If he defeated someone like King before, then Shiryu would not be a challenge.

Zoro won’t fight Shiliew though, he’ll fight Aokiji. Shilliew will be Judge’s Son’s fight

The Yonkou basically have the New World on lockdown, way more than the manga has shown. It's nearly impossible for most rookies to do anything, much less make a name for themselves, without stepping on their toes and incurring their wrath. Especially if you make a ton of noise in their seas.

When Luffy and Law made their alliance in Punk Hazard, Law said the only way to survive the New World was to join a Yonkou or become one. The book explored the former idea. It put a lot of emphasis on the fact that there is an etiquette that everyone must follow in the New World in order to get by or you'll be destroyed and sent packing.

It didn't go much into detail about how exactly he did it, but going by what was said, it was implied that Shanks, despite being recognized as dangerous, basically didn't stir up trouble in their seas and quietly built his empire through building respect and being reasonable.

If Shanks had tried to pull what Ace did, gun straight for Whitebeard, they straight up would've killed him. Thatch flat out said that Ace survived because he was weak enough to not be deemed a threat and Whitebeard liked that he tried to protect his crew.

That makes the fact Mihawk roams around in the new world without fear even more incredible.

 

[Nie Li]

Who’s Who ?

Unless the cat pet was a sabertooth I don't think it's the same cat.

Maybe BM is not included in Kaido’s strongest pirate statement ?

She might not be a traditional pirate but she's still a pirate, she must be part of the statement.

That makes the fact Mihawk roams around in the new world without fear even more incredible.

I hadn't thought of this but it's true. It's always been impressive for a man who walks alone, who with no friends should be very easily to capture either by marines or by pirates or bounty hunters, to be offered a Shichibukai spot. But he's been roaming the NW to meet Shanks, and that's even more impressive considering the other Shichibukai either didn't dare approaching it after they were humiliated in it.

Except Doflamingo, who was also in the NW but chose to work for a Yonko instead.

Judge’s Son

You should change your spellcheck. Calling Sanji like that comes off as unnecessary baiting.

 

[Fox666]

This is also fake news.

3rd row from left-to-right:

"四皇"の一人になる

Became one of the "Four Emperors"

The interesting part is that Shanks was treated like a random pirate passing by in chapter 1. If Shanks was an Emperor, even a mountain bandit should know who he is.

When the Vivre Card revealed he was already an Emperor, that was very strange. But it was ultimately proven false in the manga.

 

[LadyVados]

3rd row from left-to-right:

"四皇"の一人になる

Became one of the "Four Emperors"

The interesting part is that Shanks was treated like a random pirate passing by in chapter 1. If Shanks was an Emperor, even a mountain bandit should know who he is.

When the Vivre Card revealed he was already an Emperor, that was very strange. But it was ultimately proven false in the manga.

This is not a vivre card, this is some random shit that Oda had jack to do with it.

 

[goldb]

This is not a vivre card, this is some random shit that Oda had jack to do with it.

It is the Vivre card. And he is right.

A list of all corrections from Vivre Cards can be found here:

VIVRECARD(ビブルカード)ONE PIECE(ワンピース)図鑑～ OFFICIAL SITE

one-piece.com

Translated update of Shanks vivre card entry:

The most accurate info of when Shanks became an emperor is stated by Brannew to be about 6 years ago.

 

[LadyVados]

My understanding was the vivre card had said that shanks was a great pirate 12 years ago and translators had mistranslated that to him being a Yonko 12 years ago.

 

[goldb]

My understanding was the vivre card had said that shanks was a great pirate 12 years ago and translators had mistranslated that to him being a Yonko 12 years ago.

He was most probably was a great pirate, seeing as he had been dueling Mihawk so often. But in terms of translation is it as follows:

[History / History]
25 years ago: Roger Pirates disbanded
? Years ago: Red Hair Pirates were established
? Years ago: Became one of the "Four Emperors"
13 years ago: Docked in Windmill Village
12 years ago: Entrusted his straw hat to Luffy
2 years ago: Ended the war

source: Gilty@AP

So the above is from the initial print of the vivre card, which has been corrected to what I posted above.

 

[Holt]

That makes the fact Mihawk roams around in the new world without fear even more incredible

Mihawk wasn't gunning for the yonko or trying to take territories. He's only ever been interested in sword fights, so making noise or stirring trouble isn't his thing. Doesn't diminish Mihawk's strength as well, but doesn't actually say anything about it either. Ace was fearless and ballsy to the point of going right after WB. Ended tragically for him, but he was without fear too, except in his case, he actually went after a yonko and would've lost his life. As long as Mihawk hasn't actually solo clashed with any yonko/crew, his fearlessness doesn't say anything.

 

[Pirate Queen]

My understanding was the vivre card had said that shanks was a great pirate 12 years ago and translators had mistranslated that to him being a Yonko 12 years ago.

I tried to tell you...

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

I don't even know what you mean: Luffy used internal damage, which is a type of ryou.

Either way, why "should" it be able to bypass the barrier?

Luffy has a more advanced version of the Ryou Oden used. On paper it would have the ability to bypass any physical barrier.

Oden's ryou was strong enough to physically slice through Kaido's scales. Luffy bypasses the scales to damage Kaido. 2 different types.

What it looks like Luffy just did was a stronger version of ryou to make Kaodo "feel" the hit. Not the internal damage haki being described in the picture i provided.

 

[Nie Li]

Luffy has a more advanced version of the Ryou Oden used. On paper it would have the ability to bypass any physical barrier.

Oden's ryou was strong enough to physically slice through Kaido's scales. Luffy bypasses the scales to damage Kaido. 2 different types.

What it looks like Luffy just did was a stronger version of ryou to make Kaodo "feel" the hit. Not the internal damage haki being described in the picture i provided.

These are two assumptions. We can't tell any of that for sure, yet.

Do we even have any actual confirmation on what ryou Oden used at all?

Sure, Oden used a sword, but every single native Wano warrior is a samurai or a shinobi, and yet these samurais developed this "internal destruction haki" so it clearly can be used by them in an efficient manner despite being samurai. Oden having the strongest CoA of any samurai we have seen so far, and being shown actively involved in improving his ryou, probably used the most advanced form of CoA available on the country (internal destruction).

On Luffy's punch: it's possible, but how would Luffy's normal CoA have improved enough to hurt Kaido with a single G3 punch when he couldn't do nothing to him with a G4 barrage? Since there is no clear difference in the drawing when he uses internal destruction, it's possible that he used it, even likely given that Kaido looks to be in pain from a single punch and "internal destruction" haki being Luffy's only solid upgrade for this fight. We shouldn't expect Kaido to just dissintegrate or break down. He's still a monster of a tank.

I'm sure Kaido will comment on Luffy's ryou and we will learn during this very fight whether Luffy just used his new internal destruction haki or not, and whether that haki is the same Oden used in his attack.


Either way, this haki wouldn't work in this scenario.
- If we assume the barriers from the barrier fruit are indestructible, they won't be destroyed no matter the haki used, an so far they are shown as actually indestructible.
- If your point is that the ryou would go through the barrier and hit what's behind it, it would still fail because Bartolomeo creates his barriers from a distance so the ryou would just hit air.

 

[Pirate Queen]

These are two assumptions. We can't tell any of that for sure, yet.

Do we even have any actual confirmation on what ryou Oden used at all?

Sure, Oden used a sword, but every single native Wano warrior is a samurai or a shinobi, and yet these samurais developed this "internal destruction haki" so it clearly can be used by them in an efficient manner despite being samurai. Oden having the strongest CoA of any samurai we have seen so far, and being shown actively involved in improving his ryou, probably used the most advanced form of CoA available on the country (internal destruction).

On Luffy's punch: it's possible, but how would Luffy's normal CoA have improved enough to hurt Kaido with a single G3 punch when he couldn't do nothing to him with a G4 barrage? Since there is no clear difference in the drawing when he uses internal destruction, it's possible that he used it, even likely given that Kaido looks to be in pain from a single punch and "internal destruction" haki being Luffy's only solid upgrade for this fight. We shouldn't expect Kaido to just dissintegrate or break down. He's still a monster of a tank.

I'm sure Kaido will comment on Luffy's ryou and we will learn during this very fight whether Luffy just used his new internal destruction haki or not, and whether that haki is the same Oden used in his attack.


Either way, this haki wouldn't work in this scenario.
- If we assume the barriers from the barrier fruit are indestructible, they won't be destroyed no matter the haki used, an so far they are shown as actually indestructible.
- If your point is that the ryou would go through the barrier and hit what's behind it, it would still fail because Bartolomeo creates his barriers from a distance so the ryou would just hit air.

Well we know. Oden didn't use internal destruction haki because we see him cut Kaido. He cut through the scales.

The samurai don't have internal destruction haki. They have the basic ryou. Its why Hyo is shocked Luffy utilized the "next level" of advanced haki/ryou.

Your going to see it in this upcoming fight and it will be more clear for you. Zoro is going to use a different haki application that Luffy uses. I honestly blame Oda for being so vague about it.

But the way Zoro hurts Kaido is how Oden did it.. swordsmen don't necessarily need internal damage haki because they cut through barriers.. they don't bypass them. But internal damage haki application on a sword is certainly better.

if that was the case Hyo who is a haki expert wouldn't have differentiated between 2 types of haki and just said Luffy's Ryou was one of the strongest he's seen. Thats not the case.

But your right. This fight will clear up the confusion here

 

[Shasha23]

Well we know. Oden didn't use internal destruction haki because we see him cut Kaido. He cut through the scales.

We cant be sure of that, Rayleigh uses internal destruction haki but still uses a sword to fight so we cant dismiss Oden not using internal destruction haki on the biases he cut Kaido

The samurai don't have internal destruction haki. They have the basic ryou. Its why Hyo is shocked Luffy utilized the "next level" of advanced haki/ryou.

Your going to see it in this upcoming fight and it will be more clear for you. Zoro is going to use a different haki application that Luffy uses. I honestly blame Oda for being so vague about it.

But the way Zoro hurts Kaido is how Oden did it.. swordsmen don't necessarily need internal damage haki because they cut through barriers.. they don't bypass them. But internal damage haki application on a sword is certainly better.

if that was the case Hyo who is a haki expert wouldn't have differentiated between 2 types of haki and just said Luffy's Ryou was one of the strongest he's seen. Thats not the case.

But your right. This fight will clear up the confusion here

I used to think this way as well since i didnt see the benefit of internal destruction haki for swordsmen but Rayleigh had it and in Oden's flashback he wanted to teach Kinemon and the others the type of haki he used, implying he used something different from ryou/flow haki

Ill agree that Oda has been too vague in his explanations of haki

 

[Nie Li]

Okay, so this is what I think of internal destruction CoA.

Internal destruction haki applied to the thin surface that is a blade's edge might look just like a normal cut. It would be the damage from the blade + the haki on that thin surface of impact creating a wound from the insideout that looks like any other cut, but stronger because of the damage from the cut bursting from the inside.

For all we know, unless we're shown a samurai using this advanced form on haki in a different fashion, this can be simply how it looks.

In my opinion, it would fit and explain why Oden was able to damage Kaido like that. I would have a hard time believing Hyogoro (also a swordsman) knows this ultimate form of haki and the strongest Wano resident we have seen until now, Oden, didn't, especially it being the key to damage Kaido and all.

Since Wano is a country with closed borders, they have developed this advanced ryou on their own, separately from the outside world, which implies it has been developed by samurai (Wano's strongest warriors) and can be efficiently used through a sword, even if elites like the Scabbards haven't been able of reaching it because they disregarded Oden's ryou trainings as shown in that small flashback during their fight.

I'm sure Oden told the Scabbards "your haki isn't on Oden's level" just to now tell Luffy otherwise. If he does not then I'll have to rethink this topic.

I do wonder, though, what he'll tell Zoro instead if he cuts him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I will say this. While that explanation doesn't coincide with the information we have been directly given the truth is that only Luffy and Rayliegh have been shown/stated to possess that type of internal destruction haki.

It would make sense that Oden, who sailed with Rayliegh, would know it as well. We can assume they sparred together. And to branch off that... Shanks as well.

It would make the most sense that Ryou, like hardening, has different strengths and that Oden just has an overwhelming level of Ryou capable of slicing into Kaido's scales.

I feel like te next chapter is going to explain it. Or the chapter that shows Zoro cutting him with Enma

 

[albertwv]

Regarding Barto's barrier I do think that there is something strong enough to penetrate it head on. The Barrier was able to block the Kings Punch that is RUMORED to take down a Yonko. Let's stop right there for a second. What do they mean by "take down a Yonko", do they mean 1 hit KO or to leave them on their knees/back temporarily. I think it is the latter, to just knock them down but not defeat them. So I believe Barto's barrier can be broken either by a Yonko or with Internal Ryou.

 

[Nie Li]

Regarding Barto's barrier I do think that there is something strong enough to penetrate it head on. The Barrier was able to block the Kings Punch that is RUMORED to take down a Yonko. Let's stop right there for a second. What do they mean by "take down a Yonko", do they mean 1 hit KO or to leave them on their knees/back temporarily. I think it is the latter, to just knock them down but not defeat them. So I believe Barto's barrier can be broken either by a Yonko or with Internal Ryou.

But it's not like that punch dented it or anything, right?
It's possible that the barrier's durability isn't infinite, but I think that we have no clues of where its limits are, if there are.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I just like the idea of it being impenetrable. Luffy having and underling that protect him from anything?

Thats badass