One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Because an Emperor can lose against another Emperor; In terms of the Diff; Is our power scailing more correct than the story???

We’ve only seen Emperor lv characters split the sky with a COC clash. Last chapter was significant in showing Luffy is now on that Lv.

I'm going by the story's power scaling? Big Mom could lose to Kaidou and still be considered an emperor, right, as long as she puts up a difficult fight?

 

[XXGenesis]

I'm going by the story's power scaling? Big Mom could lose to Kaidou and still be considered an emperor, right, as long as she puts up a difficult fight?

The difficulty in which a character loses a fight is determined by the plot & circumstances…..

A scenario can be created in where Big Mom loses to Kaido low difficulty. Or another Emperor.

How much sense that would make, it would have to be good writing. Because we Know these veteran Pirates that sit in the Top 10 of the Verse, & not far from each other in that ranking.

The way Luffy lost after sending Zoro & Law away, he wasn’t ready or on Kaido’s level at all. As impressive as Yamamoto’s 1 vs 1 against Kaido is, I get the impression he just barely pulling through because he has more skills with CoC than Luffy had previsouly initially discovering it.

 

[M3J]

well then, you'd use the context to conclude whether they are that strong or not. Luffy got one-shot in his first fight against Kaidou, couldn't hurt Big Mom on WCI, and needs assistance against Kaidou, who was able to throw him off despite Luffy using Conqueror as a weapon. Until Luffy proves otherwise, he won't be on an emperor level. Not just Kaidou's. I'm not sure what kidn of plot or circumstances would lead one to think he's close to that level yet.

 

[albertwv]

Splitting the sky does not automatically make them Yonko level. It is an impressive feat only a handful have shown. Yet Luffy is still not at Yonko level, we will see if he is or not until the end of the fight.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Splitting the sky does not automatically make them Yonko level. It is an impressive feat only a handful have shown. Yet Luffy is still not at Yonko level, we will see if he is or not until the end of the fight.

"Only a handful" = Only Yonko

Luffy is literally Anikin Skywalker when he joined the council but wasn't granted the rank of Master.


Luffy's gunna kill alot of kids because a few of you are acting up.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

 

[albertwv]

"Only a handful" = Only Yonko

Luffy is literally Anikin Skywalker when he joined the council but wasn't granted the rank of Master.


Luffy's gunna kill alot of kids because a few of you are acting up.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

Well we have yet to see BB or any admiral or Garp or Rayleigh do a sky splitting moment. Does that mean they are not Yonko level?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well we have yet to see BB or any admiral or Garp or Rayleigh do a sky splitting moment. Does that mean they are not Yonko level?

That's a strawman argument isn't it? They are all proven warriors. Their feats speak for themselves, but equivalent feats (sky splitting) CAN be used to equate others. Luffy is a newbie. Less than 3 years of experience on a sea that has been ruled/ supervised over for decades by the likes of Yonko.

We never seen Garp use Advanced CoC yet we know he fought Roger many times as equals. BB has the 2 strongest devil fruits etc. It varies by case

Ever since Shanks/Whitebeard we have known skysplitting to be the staple of a Yonko's strength

The argument that just because Luffy can do it now stops it from being a Yonko Level feat is just debaters trying to move the goal post further back for Luffy. Why people think Oda would just throw in such a defining moment without an semblance of importance is more surprising to me than anything really.

Luffy is fighting Kaido as an equal right now. Some can try to deny it but the feat speaks for itself.

Shanks/Whitebeard = sky split = Yonko Level clash
Kaido/Big Mom = sky split = Yonko Level Clash
Roger/Whitebeard = sky split = Yonko Level Clash
But
Kaido/Luffy? = sky split = Not a Yonko Level Clash

The argument on its face is objectively lacking of sense. And I don't say that to be rude. It is objectively false.

 

[albertwv]

That's a strawman argument isn't it? They are all proven warriors. Their feats speak for themselves, but equivalent feats (sky splitting) CAN be used to equate others. Luffy is a newbie. Less than 3 years of experience on a sea that has been ruled/ supervised over for decades by the likes of Yonko.

We never seen Garp use Advanced CoC yet we know he fought Roger many times as equals. BB has the 2 strongest devil fruits etc. It varies by case

Ever since Shanks/Whitebeard we have known skysplitting to be the staple of a Yonko's strength

The argument that just because Luffy can do it now stops it from being a Yonko Level feat is just debaters trying to move the goal post further back for Luffy. Why people think Oda would just throw in such a defining moment without an semblance of importance is more surprising to me than anything really.

Luffy is fighting Kaido as an equal right now. Some can try to deny it but the feat speaks for itself.

Shanks/Whitebeard = sky split = Yonko Level clash
Kaido/Big Mom = sky split = Yonko Level Clash
Roger/Whitebeard = sky split = Yonko Level Clash
But
Kaido/Luffy? = sky split = Not a Yonko Level Clash

The argument on its face is objectively lacking of sense. And I don't say that to be rude. It is objectively false.

All im saying is wait to see how the fight goes and the outcome. We all thought Luffy was at Yonko level or near equal to Kaido a couple chapters back when Kaido acknowledged his strength just like Roger and Oden and etc. THEN we also thought the same when Luffy showed he could use ACoC and clashed with Kaido for a bit. People were thinking that Luffy was finally Yonko level, we saw that outcome.
So why not wait and see, if Luffy really is Yonko level.

 

[Pirate Queen]

All im saying is wait to see how the fight goes and the outcome. We all thought Luffy was at Yonko level or near equal to Kaido a couple chapters back when Kaido acknowledged his strength just like Roger and Oden and etc. THEN we also thought the same when Luffy showed he could use ACoC and clashed with Kaido for a bit. People were thinking that Luffy was finally Yonko level, we saw that outcome.
So why not wait and see, if Luffy really is Yonko level.

Sure, but I think your confusing "Luffy being Yonko level" with "Luffy is as strong as Kaido" which are 2 different claims.

Your focused on what he can do against Kaido as if defeating Kaido is what's needed to be Yonko level.

 

[GL_Nova]

I don't get this stance, not saying it's wrong. I am a well known Luffy fan so my stance may very well be biased.

The argument for Luffy not being Yonko level has been an absolute series of moving goal posts.

Luffy Learns FS and Ryou. Putting him clearly above any other YC we have seen? It's still not enough

Luffy is so powerful Kaido was shook and saw the Visage of Oden, Shanks, WB, and Rocks. It's still not enough.

Luffy is the only one successfully putting in lasting damage to Kaido? It's still not enough.

Luffy learns Advanced CoC making him the ONLY CHARACTER in One Piece to have all 4 forms of advanced haki? Still not enough.

Luffy splits the sky in a clash that ONLY Yonko have been shown to do? Still not enough.

Come on now

This is it exactly. Like why is it so important to people that Luffy not be Yonko lvl? Is it because y’all aren’t ready for this to be the end of the manga?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I don't get this stance, not saying it's wrong. I am a well known Luffy fan so my stance may very well be biased.

The argument for Luffy not being Yonko level has been an absolute series of moving goal posts.

Luffy Learns FS and Ryou. Putting him clearly above any other YC we have seen? It's still not enough

Luffy is so powerful Kaido was shook and saw the Visage of Oden, Shanks, WB, and Rocks. It's still not enough.

Luffy is the only one successfully putting in lasting damage to Kaido? It's still not enough.

Luffy learns Advanced CoC making him the ONLY CHARACTER in One Piece to have all 4 forms of advanced haki? Still not enough.

Luffy splits the sky in a clash that ONLY Yonko have been shown to do? Still not enough.

Come on now

I dunno because even after he learnt that he still got defeated easily and handily by kaido
He might be but man tbh I’m gonna see it because alot of folks thought he was there after red roc and his first use of advanced coating
People didn’t want to proclaim because he had a midling performance against an actual yonkou , where he kaido mid diffed him ( generous saying it was a mid diff )

The 5 yonkou we have seen , whitebeard kaido big mum and shanks all exceed luffy by a good deal
He’s certainly above YC1 heck even YC1+ level

 

[M3J]

All im saying is wait to see how the fight goes and the outcome. We all thought Luffy was at Yonko level or near equal to Kaido a couple chapters back when Kaido acknowledged his strength just like Roger and Oden and etc. THEN we also thought the same when Luffy showed he could use ACoC and clashed with Kaido for a bit. People were thinking that Luffy was finally Yonko level, we saw that outcome.
So why not wait and see, if Luffy really is Yonko level.

Yeah, and then to see Luffy get knocked off the floating land next chapter, although it's not like we saw what caused it. Might not have been Kaidou's superior power, but other things in mix as well, like Luffy being tricked.

This is it exactly. Like why is it so important to people that Luffy not be Yonko lvl? Is it because y’all aren’t ready for this to be the end of the manga?

Because people need logic, and claiming he's Yonkou level is illogical.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Because people need logic, and claiming he's Yonkou level is illogical.

The second we got the objective feat of Luffy splitting the sky, it stopped being illogical. Only 4 Yonko and 1 Pirate King have ever split the sky.. Now Luffy has.

 

[hokageji]

lol, rayleigh was in his peak and marco was not even close to his level today, and he stopping kizaru's kick its not something that relevant, marco stopped a strong attack from kizaru in marineford, luffy is much stronger than rayleight nowdays, and maybe already above rayleigh level in his peak, can you see rayleigh putting a fight like luffy is doing and split the skies nowdays? not even close, lmao...

That’s an anime only scene and Marco was pretty much an apprentice then , he was hella young

Alright, lets ignore the Marco point...

But we never saw Rayleigh split the skies did we? Luffy has and we can only use what is observed as facts, not what could be... If you wanna say definitely stronger, be my guest....


I think splitting the skies is the highest form of strength measure we can use in power levels... only a few 100 people probably can use CoC, but only a handful, can split the sky.... ALl of them are captains

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

This is it exactly. Like why is it so important to people that Luffy not be Yonko lvl? Is it because y’all aren’t ready for this to be the end of the manga?

I think it was OK till the sky splitter happened. I even argued that Yamato > Luffy till that moment, but that moment is indeed the turning point. Also, Luffy is the first non-weapon user we've seen to split the skies, right?

How i wish we get a flashback of Garp with his fists clashing with Roger and splitting the skies,reaching out there since he's not even confirmed to be a CoC user, but that would be an amazing sight to see... Garp needs to be shown more love from Oda

 

[HereNThere]

I mean, logic flew out the window the moment the 5 Supernova clashed with Big Mom and Kaido and managed to hold their own despite nothing indicating that they'd be able too.

IMO, they had no business doing as well as they did and most should be dead. Especially when we consider the full repitoire of both Yonkou.

Yet, here we are.

They not only survived, but Luffy is now splitting the sky, which Oda has already shown is a feat that's only capable by those at the highest point of the world, the Yonkou and Roger. Can you say his growth is illogical? Sure. But it's hard to deny what Oda is alluding too with the scene.

 

[Dabanagaga]

Firstly, people need to name the feat as it should be named - not sky splitting, HEAVEN splitting.

The spirit's of the fighters is strong enough to split the heavens, in another words to conquer the heavens.

Being the one of the strongest in OP means not only being the "strongest" strenght wise, but also being the most willful, unshakable, undomimable people mentally.

It matters because what makes you an "emperor", is your will, haki - being able to conquer anyone and be unconquerable by anyone, and Luffy's will IS abnormal.

No matter the setback, he pulls through. No matter the adversary, he forces through. His will even defies logic, as an example, even while "unconscious", still not submitting, able to force himself to heal from the poison in abnormal speed.

Luffy's will, now, being weaponized, IS that of an Yonkou - conquering even the heavens.

Is he as strong as the current Yonkou's? I doubt it. At best, best, he's reached the absolute minimum of what it means to be an Emperor, strenght wise, and that is admiral level, or so I think. (Don't get into Yonkou vs Admiral debate)

As for Luffy's growth speed - yes, it is a bit abnormal, illogical, but this is where the series has went so far - him being an abnormality and his will unsurpassable, and WILL is what makes all the difference in OP.

But he still hasn't reached the strenght needed to best an Emperor, but strong enough for an Yonkou to fight him seriously, as an equal, to surely put the brat down.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Alright, lets ignore the Marco point...

But we never saw Rayleigh split the skies did we? Luffy has and we can only use what is observed as facts, not what could be... If you wanna say definitely stronger, be my guest....


I think splitting the skies is the highest form of strength measure we can use in power levels... only a few 100 people probably can use CoC, but only a handful, can split the sky.... ALl of them are captains

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

I think it was OK till the sky splitter happened. I even argued that Yamato > Luffy till that moment, but that moment is indeed the turning point. Also, Luffy is the first non-weapon user we've seen to split the skies, right?

How i wish we get a flashback of Garp with his fists clashing with Roger and splitting the skies,reaching out there since he's not even confirmed to be a CoC user, but that would be an amazing sight to see... Garp needs to be shown more love from Oda

Garp got hella love the moment Oda made him essentially the goat marine , he unironically had a lot in common in roger with wanting his freedom despite what seemed like an easy path to more power ( rejecting shiki/ rejecting admiral promotion )
The moment garp was given co responsibility of annihilating the rocks Pirates

 

[Dabanagaga]

@hokageji We never seen Rayleigh cross swords with someone of the same calliber as him in his prime either. Later on his will seemed to diminish, so he deffinetily wasn't near his prime.
So you can not imply that he could not, or so I'd say, because he's at this level of power where without an definitive answer from Oda we can not tell if he can or can not.

Also, heaven splitting, as I've said, is not as much as an sign of power, as it is an sign of one's will - will to conquer even the heavens.

 

[hokageji]

@hokageji We never seen Rayleigh cross swords with someone of the same calliber as him in his prime either. Later on his will seemed to diminish, so he deffinetily wasn't near his prime.
So you can not imply that he could not, or so I'd say, because he's at this level of power where without an definitive answer from Oda we can not tell if he can or can not.

Also, heaven splitting, as I've said, is not as much as an sign of power, as it is an sign of one's will - will to conquer even the heavens.

the sky splitting technique is a clear sign of hiearchy. Pirate King, strongest pirate, strongest creature, the matriach of the strongest family and now, the golden boy to become pirate king, all of them have shown this technique, when clashing with each other....

ANd its not just a symbol of will. Its a symbol of materializing the will in a clash. CoC extends beyond physical, and using CoC in form of a physical attack is what is the advanced form. The clash and thereby splitting of heavens is a result of that, you cannot ignore that as a power level

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I mean, logic flew out the window the moment the 5 Supernova clashed with Big Mom and Kaido and managed to hold their own despite nothing indicating that they'd be able too.

IMO, they had no business doing as well as they did and most should be dead. Especially when we consider the full repitoire of both Yonkou.

Yet, here we are.

They not only survived, but Luffy is now splitting the sky, which Oda has already shown is a feat that's only capable by those at the highest point of the world, the Yonkou and Roger. Can you say his growth is illogical? Sure. But it's hard to deny what Oda is alluding too with the scene.

The Strawhats have always grown ridiculously fast though it’s nothing new