One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You also provided false information here, so that's an L too btw. The difference is, he was nice enough to not take a dig at you. Just be nice.

Funny. He called me criminally slow, stupid, and idiot, and insane yet your calling me out despite not name calling a single time but will try to call me out by using the phase "if I recall correctly" which can be used if you are UNSURE if your facts are correct, somehow thats worthy of being called out?

Interesting, sure I'll be nice.

Im all for a more open dialog

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

Imagine Jack being able to hold up Inu and Neko for 5 days straight, but if Queen and King goes down in 10 mins? I would hate that.

I am hoping the leaks are wrong, and the YC fights last a long time.

Sanji Vs Queen seems like a mismatch, because Sanji is just way too fast. Queen needs to show something that puts him in the YC tier. So far nothing tbh.

Jack set the bar very high and I can't possibly see how King or Queen can match it

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021 ---

About Sanji powerup, not to downside his power (i'm not a Zoro fan or a Sanji hater).
But is Queen actually really that much strong ????

Actually I may think it's possible that he's weaker than Doflamingo, that why it's possible for Sanji to bash him away so easily. And there was not a so much gap between him and previous Sanji opponent.

After all, because of Cracker and Katakuri we had a big hype about YC... But with the recent fight I have really doubt about Kaido's commander power...
Finally Jack is depicted as strong than Perospero, with an amazing stamina, but in feat he didn't do better.
Even Perospero manage Brook and Chopper (not at monster point) better than Queen could.

Queen is a great scientist, a wonderfull punchingball, but for the moment one of the crappiest fighter we have seen.
Relaying only on his laser shot and his dinosaur stamina.

Beside the hype of his rank I have really doubt about Queen. He did show a bit haki feat, but nothing impressive... I will go a bit far... But Vergo was more impressive against Sanji...

You can really say the same thing about King, who has done and shown far less than Queen.

Like I said about Jack really set a high bar.

 

[Fallou]

The bottomlime of all things is: people who think Sanji is equal or stronger than Zoro are as deluded as people who think that Zoro is equal or stronger than Luffy.

We have 1000+ chapters as a basis for this hierarchy, many examples, proofs, and no amount of wishful thinking will ever change that.

You can think Zoro is using BOAT everytime he farts and CoC everytime he frowns, but the point is that Luffy is the captain. Luffy always took care of the strongest enemy. Zoro is the 1st mate, he takes care of the 2nd strongest.

Literally everything else is just a fanboy wetdream.

 

[GL_Nova]

This is headcanon. Back this up

"Ultra REGENERATIVE effects.." per the manga

Regenerative... not anesthetic.

You are factually incorrect and are just using headcannon

An after they wear off you’ll feel the effects of everything doubled…how do you feel the effects of regenerated wounds my guy!?!? Lmao

 

[Pirate Queen]

An after they wear off you’ll feel the effects of everything doubled…how do you feel the effects of regenerated wounds my guy!?!? Lmao

Right but right now he is 100%. After the fight is when the prior damage takes effect... and doubled

 

[grey matter]

About Sanji powerup, not to downside his power (i'm not a Zoro fan or a Sanji hater).
But is Queen actually really that much strong ????

Actually I may think it's possible that he's weaker than Doflamingo, that why it's possible for Sanji to bash him away so easily. And there was not a so much gap between him and previous Sanji opponent.

After all, because of Cracker and Katakuri we had a big hype about YC... But with the recent fight I have really doubt about Kaido's commander power...
Finally Jack is depicted as strong than Perospero, with an amazing stamina, but in feat he didn't do better.
Even Perospero manage Brook and Chopper (not at monster point) better than Queen could.

Queen is a great scientist, a wonderfull punchingball, but for the moment one of the crappiest fighter we have seen.
Relaying only on his laser shot and his dinosaur stamina.

Beside the hype of his rank I have really doubt about Queen. He did show a bit haki feat, but nothing impressive... I will go a bit far... But Vergo was more impressive against Sanji...

I see the point.

But IMO, it's more of Queen's fighting style.

He's the quirky guy who relies more on strength, durability and wild card attacks.

He did have the attack power to KO Big Mom. Sure, it didn't do much damage, but the impact was strong enough to knock her out cold for many hours.
He also crushed Sanji's bones with his wild card attack. If not for Germa biology awakening, the fight would've ended right there.

He has his own pros and cons.
The main con definitely being, his speed is very questionable. This is why Sanji is smacking him around for so long.

 

[LaGOAT]

I agree Kaido has been more damaged but Luffy is the only person outside of Yamato that can fight Kaido one on one. Not to mention, most of Kaido's damage comes from Luffy. The sky-splitting is a clear indicator that Luffy is a Yonko level character.

I’m not disagreeing with you that Luffy is yonko level I’m saying that if luffy fights fresh kaido I think till will lose regardless I’m saying that the damage plus him liffting an island is gonna be a factor in his defeat

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

1. It doesn't indicate strength as much as it indicates how dangerous the person is. Bon Clay is probably weaker than Daz Bones but still have a higher bounty because his devil fruit ability makes him more dangerous, as he showed in Impel Down.

2. Maybe.

3. Why would you, if you automatically assume Sanji's opponents are weaker and don't consider match-ups?

Cabaji is a swordsman; the Nyaban brothers use bladed claws; Hatchan is a swordsman; Daz Bones can turn his body parts into blade; Ohm has a sword whose blade he can manipulate; Kaku is a swordsman; Pica is a swordsman; Hyouzou is a swordsman; Ryuuma was a swordsman.

Too lazy to do Sanji's, but other than Wanze, I can't remember any single sword or blade user that fought Sanji.

Also, swords cause more ouchies than fists and legs, so of course people would think all of Zoro's opponents are superior to Sanji's.

1. imo it does most of the time for example if I’ll give it a percentage its 60% strength 40%the rest that what I mean.

2. Exactly proves my point most of the time it does therefore proves who is stronger than who.

3.I’m saying that most of the characters that zoro fights happens to be swordsman and from the most part are usually stronger than sanji opponents . Are there few example that is doesn’t happen? Yes but most for the time it is

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021 ---

Ace equaling Aokiji's attack power. I don't see JInbe replicating it
Giving high diff to Blackbeard, while having DF disadvantage. This is the same Blackbeard who Shanks claimed as powerful/dangerous, and who gave Shanks a scar while Shanks admittedly wasn't caught off guard or anything.

Also, mere portrayal of Ace being Jinbe's level when he was a rookie. With Ace having 2-3 years to have significant relative growth.

And again, I haven't seen anything from Jinbe that puts him at YC2 level.
YC3 is more believable

So u think jinbei can’t clash with aokiji kinda like ace did? I think he can I’m not saying he can beat aokiji. But for them to clash their attacks equally I can see that happen

In my opinion the blackbeard fight was a mid difficulty fight. Since he was not able to really damage him jinbei Situation will be different since he’s not a DF user Blackbeard has a hard counter for DF users. I think jinbei can perform the same feat. (But lose in the end)

Another thing there’s a reason why Jinbei join didn’t Immediately with a straw hats I feel oda was trying to say he’s kind of too strong in which its seem like portrayal of his strength.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I’m not disagreeing with you that Luffy is yonko level I’m saying that if luffy fights fresh kaido I think till will lose regardless I’m saying that the damage plus him liffting an island is gonna be a factor in his defeat

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

1. imo it does most of the time for example if I’ll give it a percentage its 60% strength 40%the rest that what I mean.

2. Exactly proves my point most of the time it does therefore proves who is stronger than who.

3.I’m saying that most of the characters that zoro fights happens to be swordsman and most part are usually stronger than sanji powers. Are they few example that doesn’t happen? Yes but most for the time it is

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021 ---

So u think jinbei can’t clash with aokiji kinda like ace did? I think he can I’m not saying he can beat aokiji. But for them to clash their attacks equally I can see that happen

In my opinion the blackbeard fight was a mid difficulty fight. Since he was not able to really damage him jinbei Situation will be different since he’s not a DF user Blackbeard has a hard counter for DF users. I think jinbei can perform the same feat. (But lose in the end)

Another thing there’s a reason why Jinbei join didn’t Immediately with a straw hats I feel oda was trying to say he’s kind of too strong in which its seem like portrayal of his strength.

I know that. The point is that Luffy is now on the level of the Yonko, the gap between him, Zoro and Sanji is by far the biggest it's been.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I don’t think luffy is yonkou level yet
With Kata everything was somewhat within reach
But kaido he’s literally been between twice , gotten assistance in damage from the scabbards and other supernovas and Yamato
He doesn’t hit as hard , tank as hard as them
I do think he’s on the level just below them tho and he can tango with them now

 

[AmitDS]

I also remember being told that Zoro wouldn't fight anyone after the roof fight and that was end of his fight for the arc. Said by a Sanji fan who is still replying on here.

Both fans are equally bad

So I was right? We been knew.

 

[M3J]

1. imo it does most of the time for example if I’ll give it a percentage its 60% strength 40%the rest that what I mean.

2. Exactly proves my point most of the time it does therefore proves who is stronger than who.

3.I’m saying that most of the characters that zoro fights happens to be swordsman and from the most part are usually stronger than sanji opponents . Are there few example that is doesn’t happen? Yes but most for the time it is

1. That's still debatable considering Robin had a high bounty at a very young age despite not being strong. It's still ultimately who and how much the WG deems someone a threat. Someone like Blackbeard could be the strongest and still have a low bounty just because he's good at laying low.

2. WEll, by title I don't know what you mean. Their role in the crew or what they're known as?

3. I'm disagreeing with the most part. You have handful of moments but there are, as you admitted, enough moments where Zoro's opponents were weaker but Zoro still fought them because swords. Talking about power levels between Zoro and Sanji is dumb anyway and just seems to serve as a way for fans to feel superior and wank themselves.

Oda's made it clear that Luffy's vastly superior to Zoro and Sanji, but he can easily make Sanji superior to Zoro or vice versa, and for a while as well. At least back before the timeskip he could have. I don't know now anymore, and if he makes Zoro stronger than Sanji by a considerable margin, then cool. It'd make sense too because Zoro's a swordsman.

 

[LaGOAT]

1. That's still debatable considering Robin had a high bounty at a very young age despite not being strong. It's still ultimately who and how much the WG deems someone a threat. Someone like Blackbeard could be the strongest and still have a low bounty just because he's good at laying low.

2. WEll, by title I don't know what you mean. Their role in the crew or what they're known as?

3. I'm disagreeing with the most part. You have handful of moments but there are, as you admitted, enough moments where Zoro's opponents were weaker but Zoro still fought them because swords. Talking about power levels between Zoro and Sanji is dumb anyway and just seems to serve as a way for fans to feel superior and wank themselves.

Oda's made it clear that Luffy's vastly superior to Zoro and Sanji, but he can easily make Sanji superior to Zoro or vice versa, and for a while as well. At least back before the timeskip he could have. I don't know now anymore, and if he makes Zoro stronger than Sanji by a considerable margin, then cool. It'd make sense too because Zoro's a swordsman.

1. That's still debatable considering Robin had a high bounty at a very young age despite not being strong. It's still ultimately who and how much the WG deems someone a threat. Someone like Blackbeard could be the strongest and still have a low bounty just because he's good at laying low.

2. WEll, by title I don't know what you mean. Their role in the crew or what they're known as?

3. I'm disagreeing with the most part. You have handful of moments but there are, as you admitted, enough moments where Zoro's opponents were weaker but Zoro still fought them because swords. Talking about power levels between Zoro and Sanji is dumb anyway and just seems to serve as a way for fans to feel superior and wank themselves.

Oda's made it clear that Luffy's vastly superior to Zoro and Sanji, but he can easily make Sanji superior to Zoro or vice versa, and for a while as well. At least back before the timeskip he could have. I don't know now anymore, and if he makes Zoro stronger than Sanji by a considerable margin, then cool. It'd make sense too because Zoro's a swordsman.

1. Agree on some parts but disagree atbskem
Parts I’ll say let’s agree to disagree.

2.example like kaido-captain king-1st yonko commander queen-2nd commander admiral,VAs etc these examples kinda tells their hierarchy of the group/organization

3. No I’m saying the opponents that Zorro fights that aren’t swordsmen themselves regardless is still stronger than Sanji’s opponents that uses swords. I can’t remember any arc where both sanji and zoro were in when sanji fought a stronger opponent than zoro (other than punk hazard arc with vergo) usually zoro fights a stronger opponent than sanji

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

I know that. The point is that Luffy is now on the level of the Yonko, the gap between him, Zoro and Sanji is by far the biggest it's been.

But the thing is luffy opponents has always been a gap them and their Subordinates. Zoro and sanji beat the opponent in one go while luffy takes maybe 2 rounds to beat his opponent

My point is I don’t see luffy oneshotting or low diff zoro and sanji the way kaido oneshotting luffy who most people at the time consider him YC1lvl

 

[Crimson Ice]

1. Agree on some parts but disagree atbskem
Parts I’ll say let’s agree to disagree.

2.example like kaido-captain king-1st yonko commander queen-2nd commander admiral,VAs etc these examples kinda tells their hierarchy of the group/organization

3. No I’m saying the opponents that Zorro fights that aren’t swordsmen themselves regardless is still stronger than Sanji’s opponents that uses swords. I can’t remember any arc where both sanji and zoro were in when sanji fought a stronger opponent than zoro (other than punk hazard arc with vergo) usually zoro fights a stronger opponent than sanji

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

But the thing is luffy opponents has always been a gap them and their Subordinates. Zoro and sanji beat the opponent in one go while luffy takes maybe 2 rounds to beat his opponent

My point is I don’t see luffy oneshotting or low diff zoro and sanji the way kaido oneshotting luffy who most people at the time consider him YC1lvl

And the gap between Luffy and his two best men (Zoro and Sanji) has been wide in those cases, mainly referring to Enis Lobby. The current Luffy who is actively fighting on par and hurting Kaido is smoking both Sanji and Zoro. Shit, currently Zoro is struggling his ass off against someone much weaker than Luffy and Kaido.

 

[Rmstorm]

Ace was 17 when he joined WB pirates.
For months he was trying to assassinate WB in his sleep, and accepted himself as a part of the crew later. And again only much later did he become YC2

Jinbe was Ace's equal when Ace was Luffy's age.

If we are looking logically, Ace should've grown considerably for the next three years, considering his insane genetic potential (which even people like WB and Shanks realized).

But maybe, all Oda wanted to show with the Jinbe fight was that Jinbe is Ace tier, without any indication of growth and such.
In which case, I can buy Jinbe being YC2 tier

But still, what feat has Jinbe shown which indicates he is YC2 tier?
Mid diffing Who's Who is something I can assume Jack doing as well.



The denial that Zoro has always been > Sanji is getting comical at this point lmao.

For all the shit they give Zoro fans, I've almost never seen them equate Zoro to Luffy (just one user here from what I've seen, that too occasionally).

Ace was actually 18 when he joined the Whitebeard Pirates. The Ace novel said it took him 1 year to arrive at Saboady after Dawn island.

 

[LaGOAT]

And the gap between Luffy and his two best men (Zoro and Sanji) has been wide in those cases, mainly referring to Enis Lobby. The current Luffy who is actively fighting on par and hurting Kaido is smoking both Sanji and Zoro. Shit, currently Zoro is struggling his ass off against someone much weaker than Luffy and Kaido.

So u believe current luffy is oneshotting zoro and sanji?

 

[Pirate Queen]

So u believe current luffy is oneshotting zoro and sanji?

I wouldn't say one shot but it's a Low to Mid Diff, for sure

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

I wouldn't say one shot but it's a Low to Mid Diff, for sure

In Zoro's case a High Diff fight.

I wonder how well Sanji's exoskeleton can tank internal damage

 

[LadyVados]

Wait, you think Mihawk > Kaido then?

1. If Zoro scarred him, what could Mihawk do ?
2. I don’t think Shanks would be a Yonko if it was possible to be stronger than him but still weaker than Kaido. Kaido vs Shanks would be an extreme diff either way.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

And the gap between Luffy and his two best men (Zoro and Sanji) has been wide in those cases, mainly referring to Enis Lobby. The current Luffy who is actively fighting on par and hurting Kaido is smoking both Sanji and Zoro. Shit, currently Zoro is struggling his ass off against someone much weaker than Luffy and Kaido.

Zoro was competing against Kaku even before he used Asura.

Let’s assume he had a doriki of 1500, that means Asura tripled it to 4500.

Also Sanji low-diffed Jabra while Luffy almost died against Lucci who isn’t even twice as strong as Jabra.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

The difference between Luffy and Zoro is ACoC

Except Zoro can use ACoC, he just can’t use it consciously. And he’ll probably learn how to use it consciously in a few chapters tbh.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

most low diff King

Zoro is going to low-diff King

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

I don’t think luffy is yonkou level yet
With Kata everything was somewhat within reach
But kaido he’s literally been between twice , gotten assistance in damage from the scabbards and other supernovas and Yamato
He doesn’t hit as hard , tank as hard as them
I do think he’s on the level just below them tho and he can tango with them now

Exactly all this nonsense about Luffy being a Yonko tier is nonsense and Luffy-fanboyism. These same people were saying the same thing after Red Roc and again after 1010, look how that turned out.

Even if Luffy wins, considering the amount of help he has got, it’ll be the most illegitimate victory ever.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

I also remember being told that Zoro wouldn't fight anyone after the roof fight and that was end of his fight for the arc. Said by a Sanji fan who is still replying on here.

Both fans are equally bad

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

You also provided false information here, so that's an L too btw. The difference is, he was nice enough to not take a dig at you. Just be nice.

The bottomlime of all things is: people who think Sanji is equal or stronger than Zoro are as deluded as people who think that Zoro is equal or stronger than Luffy.

We have 1000+ chapters as a basis for this hierarchy, many examples, proofs, and no amount of wishful thinking will ever change that.

You can think Zoro is using BOAT everytime he farts and CoC everytime he frowns, but the point is that Luffy is the captain. Luffy always took care of the strongest enemy. Zoro is the 1st mate, he takes care of the 2nd strongest.

Literally everything else is just a fanboy wetdream.

As if Luffy fanboys don’t call him Yonko level whenever he tickles a Yonko and Kidd and Law fanboys don’t call them Luffy’s equals and the next WB whenever there is a panel showing them standing next to him.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

You compared a list of hard core training regimes Luffy went though (blood, sweat, tears) and years of enduring the toughest conditions to get to where he is and you think it's comparable to Zoro being handed a Yonko cutting weapon

What training did Luffy do to get born to the most dangerous man in the world ?

 

[grey matter]

1. If Zoro scarred him, what could Mihawk do ?
2. I don’t think Shanks would be a Yonko if it was possible to be stronger than him but still weaker than Kaido. Kaido vs Shanks would be an extreme diff either way.

1. Mihawk would do more, but still lose.
Zoro gave his all, and it gave Kaido a scar. But he was pretty much all right, and went onto beat Luffy soon after.
Kaido will low diff Zoro, and probably high diff Mihawk

2. Because even amongst Yonko, there is a hierarchy. There is still the strongest, someone has to be. Like WB was 20 years ago. Kaido and BM were Yonkos too then as well, but healthy WB would still high diff them. Hell, now that I think about it, if even old WB is connected to his medical equipment, he would still be marginally stronger than Kaido - take his illness away and he was still considered by even Sengoku & admirals (i.e not some scrub who just reads newspaper and thinks whatever) as the strongest pirate.
Kaido is the strongest being in the OP verse right now (unless Imu has something going on), we have so much portrayal implying this: "strongest creature", "if it's 1v1, always bet on Kaido" etc. Kaido will high diff Shanks until proven otherwise

 

[LadyVados]

Honestly Zoro was stronger than Luffy imo before Luffy got AdCoC, which means if he masters adcoc during the King fight I can see him becoming stronger than Luffy again.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

Kaido will high diff Shanks until proven otherwise

I disagree, Shanks is the man who ended the war at Marineford with a word, Luffy’s goal, Roger’s heir, He already had an encounter with Kaido, And clashed evenly with a medical equipment-assisted WB, there’s no way Kaido is beating him high diff.

Heck, it’s debatable if Kaido is even beating him…

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

Kaido will low diff Zoro

In my opinion a fight that makes you vomit blood and leaves you with a lifelong scar is at least mid-diff if not lower end of high diff.

Kaido only tanked Dead Man’s Game as well as he did because of his durability and zoan endurance, if Roger or Prime WB or EOS Luffy had been hit with that attack they would have been badly damaged and knocked down.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What training did Luffy do to get born to the most dangerous man in the world ?

What training did Zoro do to get born to the family of the Sword God Ryuma?

Are you gunna say the only reason Zoro is strong is because he is a Shimotsuki?

Every single one of your arguments falls on its face its not even hard to break them apart. Your just trolling... and a bad one at that

 

[LadyVados]

What training did Zoro do to get born to the family of the Sword God Ryuma?

Are you gunna say the only reason Zoro is strong is because he is a Shimotsuki?

Every single one of your arguments falls on its face its not even hard to break them apart. Your just trolling... and a bad one at that

We have no evidence this is the case right now.