One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Are there people out there who still believe Kaido and Big Mom are equals? LOL.
Their equals in status of Yonko and near peers but in strength it has been shown that Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. He has a higher durability, stamina, ACoA, ACoO and ACoC. Kaido literally saved Big mom from falling to the ocean. The 5 Supernovas were more focused on Kaido rather than Big Mom, they didn't see her as a threat like Kaido.
Kaido and Big Mom fought for a day or two and nobody won. I truly believe that was just casual sparring with no real intent of killing each other and im sure if Kaido really wanted to he could have killed her in a battle. Big Mom has brute strength but not speed or stamina, and I think her strength is weaker than Kaido's.

Now I'm more interested in where Green Bull and Akainu rank compared to Kaido. I think it will be bullshit if GB turns out to be stronger than Kaido. If the admirals turn out to be as stronger or stronger than the Yonko, it will downplay the whole Yonko system in my eyes.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Right? I just about died laughing. Mihawk being Shanks top Commander when he couldn't even get past YC level 5 Vista?

So funny. Mihawk is Rockstar level, MAX

(Does he take the bait)

1) how on earth are you confidently scaling Vista to YC5 when literally his only feat is being acknowledged by the WSS

2) "couldn't get past" is certainly one way of reading that interaction

3) I took the bait because I've seen this opinion sincerely so many times

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2022 ---

Are there people out there who still believe Kaido and Big Mom are equals? LOL.

Yes, LOL. Not everything is about tHe FeAtS. Narrative portrayal trumps everything, and they've always been portrayed as equals in the context of the story. What do you think the point of that several days battle was between them? Set dressing? It was to establish them as equals, or at least close enough to it that neither has much of an advantage over the other.

The 5 Supernovas were more focused on Kaido rather than Big Mom, they didn't see her as a threat like Kaido.

That is quite a reach. Kaidou being the target of the Alliance while NOBODY wants to directly tussle with Big Mom should be seen the other way around.

Kaido really wanted to he could have killed her in a battle.

That's definitely an opinion to have. This reminds me of when Yamato was holding off Kaidou on his own for like an hour+ and people were downplaying it because Kaidou's his dad, when the text specifically said repeatedly that Kaidou was trying to kill him.

 

[wilhelfizh]

I know it's a out of topic. But have you ever wondered? Will we got sea battle from SHP against any big villain? Gol have Edd War with Shiki, though it turned out Gol somehow "saved" by the storm. I do want to see Sunny join the war head to head with other war ship

 

[Pirate Queen]

1) how on earth are you confidently scaling Vista to YC5 when literally his only feat is being acknowledged by the WSS

2) "couldn't get past" is certainly one way of reading that interaction

3) I took the bait because I've seen this opinion sincerely so many times

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2022 ---

I got one boys

Likewise, Mihawk's only feat is stopping Vista

Mihawk scales to Perospero, confirmed

 

[grey matter]

@zetsu banned
I agree with you that while feats do matter, portrayal takes precedence.

Because Oda isn't perfect with his feats. And Luffy's opponent will obviously get a more drawn out and focused fight, than Law's and Kid's opponent.
Oda also focuses on thematics in the fights as well. Law/Kid vs BM was thematically meant to be more DF focused, while Luffy vs Kaido more haki focused. So, arguments of BM lacking haki is flawed IMO, because she demonstrated that she is very well capable of using advanced conqueror's haki for an extended duration during her fight with Kaido.

Now, the issue is that Kaido also has advantage in portrayal as well.
Yes, BM is portrayed as somewhat relative to Kaido. But Kaido has more narrative weight behind him such as strongest creature, strongest pirate, 1v1 always bet on Kaido etc. He also was Luffy's opponent, Luffy always gets the strongest opponent of the arc thematically.

Even while acknowledging that there is some wiggle room when it comes to feats, we have to acknowledge that Kaido's feats are undoubtedly superior to BM as well. Which counts for something.
Even ignoring the disparity in stats and putting it in the wiggle room. Kaido has also demonstrated advanced observation haki (future sight), and this is something he willingly has not been using until he was pushed to his limit in combat speed.
Even if we ignore the stats difference in feats and attribute it to "wiggle room", future sight is something we cannot simply ignore like that. It is an ability that BM has not demonstrate or hinted at having. Future sight allows Kaido to land and dodge more hits with someone of otherwise relative stats. So, this would be an advantage for Kaido as well.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@zetsu banned
I agree with you that while feats do matter, portrayal takes precedence.

Because Oda isn't perfect with his feats. And Luffy's opponent will obviously get a more drawn out and focused fight, than Law's and Kid's opponent.
Oda also focuses on thematics in the fights as well. Law/Kid vs BM was thematically meant to be more DF focused, while Luffy vs Kaido more haki focused. So, arguments of BM lacking haki is flawed IMO, because she demonstrated that she is very well capable of using advanced conqueror's haki for an extended duration during her fight with Kaido.

Now, the issue is that Kaido also has advantage in portrayal as well.
Yes, BM is portrayed as somewhat relative to Kaido. But Kaido has more narrative weight behind him such as strongest creature, strongest pirate, 1v1 always bet on Kaido etc. He also was Luffy's opponent, Luffy always gets the strongest opponent of the arc thematically.

Even while acknowledging that there is some wiggle room when it comes to feats, we have to acknowledge that Kaido's feats are undoubtedly superior to BM as well. Which counts for something.
Even ignoring the disparity in stats and putting it in the wiggle room. Kaido has also demonstrated advanced observation haki (future sight), and this is something he willingly has not been using until he was pushed to his limit in combat speed.
Even if we ignore the stats difference in feats and attribute it to "wiggle room", future sight is something we cannot simply ignore like that. It is an ability that BM has not demonstrate or hinted at having. Future sight allows Kaido to land and dodge more hits with someone of otherwise relative stats. So, this would be an advantage for Kaido as well.

Luffy was also able to study lock Kaido UNTIL he utilized Future Sight. If Big Mom doesn't have it, Luffy Prior to G5 may be enough to fight her equally.

I wish we could have Seen Big Mom in a 1V1 brawl

 

[Fox666]

Luffy was also able to study lock Kaido UNTIL he utilized Future Sight. If Big Mom doesn't have it, Luffy Prior to G5 may be enough to fight her equally.

I wish we could have Seen Big Mom in a 1V1 brawl

I wouldn't be so sure. It was never a 1v1 against Kaido.

Luffy got a lot of help against Kaido. Kaido fought against the Scabbards and Izo, then the 5 Supernovas, then Yamato, and Yamato a second time.

Shouldn't that wear off Big Mom too...?


Even so, I suspect Kaido was never serious until Luffy used Gear 5.

Luffy went through a lot of power-ups through the fight, Haki Infusion, Gear 4, and Gear 5... and they didn't make any significant difference in Luffy's performance... unless Kaido wasn't going all out until the end.

 

[grey matter]

Luffy was also able to study lock Kaido UNTIL he utilized Future Sight. If Big Mom doesn't have it, Luffy Prior to G5 may be enough to fight her equally.

I wish we could have Seen Big Mom in a 1V1 brawl

Fighting her as her equal is a bit of a stretch, but I get your point.
At least in combat speed, yeah, G4 Luffy should be definitely above BM. Which means, at the very least he can stun lock her like he did Kaido with his barrage, at least until his barrage runs out of steam.
Kaido's combat speed (with future sight) >= G4 Luffy's combat speed > Kaido's combat speed (no future sight) > BM's combat speed

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2022 ---

Now I'm more interested in where Green Bull and Akainu rank compared to Kaido. I think it will be bullshit if GB turns out to be stronger than Kaido. If the admirals turn out to be as stronger or stronger than the Yonko, it will downplay the whole Yonko system in my eyes.

This is an issue only if you underestimated admirals to begin with.

I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the admirals to be relative to Yonkos, though I considers the "average" Yonko slightly above the "average" admiral.
I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu ends up being even stronger than the Yonkos.

Let's remember that Garp and Sengoku were treated as legitimate threats by Roger, arguably the strongest character ever in the series.
Garp was defacto considered an admiral in stature, who refused the position only because of his dislike towards the Tenryubito. Garp is regarded as someone who could match Roger in combat.
Even though we don't know how powerful he exactly was, Sengoku also likely in the upper levels of Yonko tier, just based on how Roger saw him. And Sengoku was an admiral.

Point being, we have two characters who were basically admirals back then, contenting with the strongest pirates of that era.

So, what would be the issue, if admirals of the current era are serious threats to the strongest pirates of the current era?

 

[mood]

Now I'm more interested in where Green Bull and Akainu rank compared to Kaido. I think it will be bullshit if GB turns out to be stronger than Kaido. If the admirals turn out to be as stronger or stronger than the Yonko, it will downplay the whole Yonko system in my eyes.

there's a clear difference between how admirals and yonko were portrayed throughout the story in terms of power.
take for instance when luffy first tried to tussle with big mom and then with kaido he got one shotted and straight up lost consciousness in both occasions, and they didn't even try.
now compare that to when a much weaker luffy fought fujitora.
it wouldn't make sense for any of the admirals to equal kaido or big mom in terms of power specially when none of them showed any signs of CoC which was a big requirement for anyone to be able to seriously damage kaido.

 

[Fox666]

it wouldn't make sense for any of the admirals to equal kaido or big mom in terms of power specially when none of them showed any signs of CoC which was a big requirement for anyone to be able to seriously damage kaido.

I think Law and Kid proved otherwise, and the Admirals fruits should be more than enough

At least Big Mom was clearly not immune to explosions

 

[kkck]

I don't think there's any character in this story that has been outright immune to explosions. It's a safe bet that they don't do much damage but it can easily accumulate, which is probably what we have seen with Big mom and WB. There's also the condiration that the bombs that big mom took to her face were gigantic, almost comically large. And she fell into an active volcano...

 

[mood]

I think Law and Kid proved otherwise, and the Admirals fruits should be more than enough

At least Big Mom was clearly not immune to explosions

i thought that fight made it clear that you need COC in order to seriously damage a yonko.

remember that law had a very special df capable of doing damage from inside , but even with that she was still fine and would've continued fighting if not for the explosives.
so technically law and kid didn't beat big mom, i'd say they weren't even close

 

[Fox666]

i thought that fight made it clear that you need COC in order to seriously damage a yonko.

remember that law had a very special df capable of doing damage from inside , but even with that she was still fine and would've continued fighting if not for the explosives.
so technically law and kid didn't beat big mom, i'd say they weren't even close

Very special devil fruit like freezing, laser beams, lava or gravity?

 

[grey matter]

I think the whole perception of Yonkos being much superior to admirals is coming from Marineford arc.

Some points to be considered about what happened in Marineford:

1. The only admiral who was fully serious and truly use his full power was Akainu, and that was against Whitebeard. Kizaru and Aokiji were only semi serious in that arc.
If admirals are to be downplayed because WB commanders managed to somewhat match them in combat, then what about Mihawk? Mihawk is portrayed with Shanks, a Yonko. And is far superior to commanders even apart from portrayal with Shanks, purely for narrative reasons, because Zoro is still far from Mihawk and Zoro is already a cut above characters like King.
Is Mihawk (and by extension Shanks) to be downplayed, because Vista managed to fight Mihawk for a period of time?


2. Oda himself gave us hints about the difference in power level between admirals and commanders, in Marineford itself.
When Jozu caught Aokiji off guard, Aokiji was injured and bled from his mouth, but was mostly fine otherwise and continued the battle as usual. When Aokiji caught Jozu off guard, Jozu was completely toast, donezo!!
The only one who could truly get back up after getting knocked down by admirals, is Marco. He was also the only one somewhat compared to admirals in the vivre card. Jozu was merely holding his own using his durable DF powers, and got folded the moment he lost focus.


3. Akainu fought Marco + Vista + a bunch of other WB commanders alone, for quite some time.
Implication is that, this is what a fully serious admiral is capable of. Yeah, Akainu is likely the strongest admiral, but the gap between him and Aokiji/Kizaru isn't implied to be large.


4. Lastly, it is to be noted that Whitebeard pirates were the strongest Yonko force active at the time. It wouldn't be a stretch to claim that trio of Marco, Jozu and Vista are much superior to the commander trio of Kaido and Big Mom.

Marco alone, pretty much gave King + Queen, a mid-high diff battle over a considerable duration of time. And this was after he expended energy fighting BM for almost as long as Kaido vs Scabbards, and then spent energy healing up the entire floor of infected samurai and beast pirates. And even in what little of the offscreen fight we saw, Marco was strong and fast enough to be on the offensive, even though he was in a 2v1.

Even Izo, a lower level commander of WB pirates, was strong enough to take down one of the CP0 agents in a 2v1 fight. And the CP0 agents are strong enough to mid diff characters like Drake and Apoo.

Point being, just because the top WB commanders managed to hold their own against admirals, doesn't mean the commanders of Kaido or BM will be able to. There is a noticeable difference in quality, WB pirates are on a different level.
What we saw with Greenbull currently, is just the confirmation about this. Sure, King and Queen were most likely not close to their full power. But Greenbull still pretty much just stomped them, there was no evidence of even mild resistance

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2022 ---

there's a clear difference between how admirals and yonko were portrayed throughout the story in terms of power.
take for instance when luffy first tried to tussle with big mom and then with kaido he got one shotted and straight up lost consciousness in both occasions, and they didn't even try.
now compare that to when a much weaker luffy fought fujitora.
it wouldn't make sense for any of the admirals to equal kaido or big mom in terms of power specially when none of them showed any signs of CoC which was a big requirement for anyone to be able to seriously damage kaido.

Fujitora didn't even remotely try against Luffy.

Wait until Oda proves you all wrong with how strong he's gonna show Akainu is, in the next arc.

i thought that fight made it clear that you need COC in order to seriously damage a yonko.

remember that law had a very special df capable of doing damage from inside , but even with that she was still fine and would've continued fighting if not for the explosives.
so technically law and kid didn't beat big mom, i'd say they weren't even close

The Law/Kid fight made it crystal clear that you DON'T need advanced conqueror's to seriously damage a Yonko.

Even discounting Law's internal organ damage, Kid's attacks were clearly doing damage to BM. They broke her bones, made her cough up blood, made her scream in pain. and made her dodge.

Law/Kid weren't close based on what? They pushed her beyond her limits in a way nobody has made her in decades (her own words!), screwed up her organs, broke her bones etc. She was in a completely beat up state, even as she fell off.
Even discounting Big Mom falling off, everything until that point was ALREADY an extreme diff.

And Law/Kid would've just continued fighting, if the volcano didn't explode. (Why did it explode to begin with? Yeah, because Law's attack dug soo deep)
Yeah, they were claiming they've run out of stamina, But as soon as they sensed Luffy "lost", they got up and started preparing for fighting.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think the whole perception of Yonkos being much superior to admirals is coming from Marineford arc.

Some points to be considered about what happened in Marineford:

1. The only admiral who was fully serious and truly use his full power was Akainu, and that was against Whitebeard. Kizaru and Aokiji were only semi serious in that arc.
If admirals are to be downplayed because WB commanders managed to somewhat match them in combat, then what about Mihawk? Mihawk is portrayed with Shanks, a Yonko. And is far superior to commanders even apart from portrayal with Shanks, purely for narrative reasons, because Zoro is still far from Mihawk and Zoro is already a cut above characters like King.
Is Mihawk (and by extension Shanks) to be downplayed, because Vista managed to fight Mihawk for a period of time?


2. Oda himself gave us hints about the difference in power level between admirals and commanders, in Marineford itself.
When Jozu caught Aokiji off guard, Aokiji was injured and bled from his mouth, but was mostly fine otherwise and continued the battle as usual. When Aokiji caught Jozu off guard, Jozu was completely toast, donezo!!
The only one who could truly get back up after getting knocked down by admirals, is Marco. He was also the only one somewhat compared to admirals in the vivre card. Jozu was merely holding his own using his durable DF powers, and got folded the moment he lost focus.


3. Akainu fought Marco + Vista + a bunch of other WB commanders alone, for quite some time.
Implication is that, this is what a fully serious admiral is capable of. Yeah, Akainu is likely the strongest admiral, but the gap between him and Aokiji/Kizaru isn't implied to be large.


4. Lastly, it is to be noted that Whitebeard pirates were the strongest Yonko force active at the time. It wouldn't be a stretch to claim that trio of Marco, Jozu and Vista are much superior to the commander trio of Kaido and Big Mom.

Marco alone, pretty much gave King + Queen, a mid-high diff battle over a considerable duration of time. And this was after he expended energy fighting BM for almost as long as Kaido vs Scabbards, and then spent energy healing up the entire floor of infected samurai and beast pirates. And even in what little of the offscreen fight we saw, Marco was strong and fast enough to be on the offensive, even though he was in a 2v1.

Even Izo, a lower level commander of WB pirates, was strong enough to take down one of the CP0 agents in a 2v1 fight. And the CP0 agents are strong enough to mid diff characters like Drake and Apoo.

Point being, just because the top WB commanders managed to hold their own against admirals, doesn't mean the commanders of Kaido or BM will be able to. There is a noticeable difference in quality, WB pirates are on a different level.
What we saw with Greenbull currently, is just the confirmation about this. Sure, King and Queen were most likely not close to their full power. But Greenbull still pretty much just stomped them, there was no evidence of even mild resistance

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2022 ---

Fujitora didn't even remotely try against Luffy.

Wait until Oda proves you all wrong with how strong he's gonna show Akainu is, in the next arc.



The Law/Kid fight made it crystal clear that you DON'T need advanced conqueror's to seriously damage a Yonko.

Even discounting Law's internal organ damage, Kid's attacks were clearly doing damage to BM. They broke her bones, made her cough up blood, made her scream in pain. and made her dodge.

Law/Kid weren't close based on what? They pushed her beyond her limits in a way nobody has made her in decades (her own words!), screwed up her organs, broke her bones etc. She was in a completely beat up state, even as she fell off.
Even discounting Big Mom falling off, everything until that point was ALREADY an extreme diff.

And Law/Kid would've just continued fighting, if the volcano didn't explode. (Why did it explode to begin with? Yeah, because Law's attack dug soo deep)
Yeah, they were claiming they've run out of stamina, But as soon as they sensed Luffy "lost", they got up and started preparing for fighting.

Okay on the Yonkos admiral thing but we had so much context that it's was more than just Yonkovs Admiral and more Whitebeard vs Marines.

And then you had Garp saying 2 lines that gave they impression the marines were already fucked.

The first being that Rayliegh had been spotted and he ordered that it not be reported to the higher ups because they couldn't possibly handle 2 Legends at once...

Then we had Ace wanting Garp to kill him in Impel Down but Garp claimed it was too late because they had already angered the "Ruler of the Seas"

Also lines like Whitebeard being able to destroy the world by Sengoku and Tsu saying she can't run even if she wanted to because no where in the world was no longer safe from Whitebeard's wraith.

Idk if you made these points. If you did ignore me. I didn't read everything you wrote and I'm so drunk I'm googling the symptoms of alcohol poisoning.

Have a good night

 

[grey matter]

Okay on the Yonkos admiral thing but we had so much context that it's was more than just Yonkovs Admiral and more Whitebeard vs Marines.

And then you had Garp saying 2 lines that gave they impression the marines were already fucked.

The first being that Rayliegh had been spotted and he ordered that it not be reported to the higher ups because they couldn't possibly handle 2 Legends at once...

Then we had Ace wanting Garp to kill him in Impel Down but Garp claimed it was too late because they had already angered the "Ruler of the Seas"

Also lines like Whitebeard being able to destroy the world by Sengoku and Tsu saying she can't run even if she wanted to because no where in the world was no longer safe from Whitebeard's wraith.

Idk if you made these points. If you did ignore me. I didn't read everything you wrote and I'm so drunk I'm googling the symptoms of alcohol poisoning.

Have a good night

I didn't address anything about Whitebeard though.
I just addressed the whole admiral vs commander thing in the Marineford, because that is where most of the admiral downplay in the OP fandom stems from.
Which I think comes from people perceiving Marco, Vista and Jozu to be comparable to the commander trio of Kaido and BM (which is flawed because WB had the strongest crew, demonstrably so by both portrayal and feats). As well as people misreading the battles between admirals and WB commanders.
This was what I focused on in my previous post.

As for Whitebeard and Rayleigh, I think there is a lot of perception vs reality, that was going on around in the Marineford arc.


Regarding Rayleigh.

Perception:
We don't know where Peak Rayleigh actually stands, but he has slight portrayal over Oden, and was most definitely Yonko tier, probably as strong as Kaido given how Kaido still considers Oden's powers.
This is the perception that Marines have for Rayleigh (especially because they haven't seen him since Roger pirates disbanded): Legend, 1st mate of Roger, high Yonko level, need real preparations to be tackled with, etc.

Reality:
Dude hasn't been seen since the Roger pirates disbanded 25 years ago, which lead to the perception of his previous glory muddying the waters. Reality is that he's retired, out of shape (apparently didn't touch a sword in 20 years), and heavily indulging into drinking and gambling. The current Rayleigh, while was still strong and could match Kizaru in combat stats, was implied that he didn't have the stamina to keep up with combat at this level.
Rayleigh got his ass saved by Kizaru getting called back, if the fight had continued I'm sure Kizauru would've high-extreme diff'd Rayleigh



Regarding Whitebeard.

Perception:
Legend, strongest pirate/man, equal of the pirate king Roger in his prime, king of the seas etc. Probably the only character who could 1v2 admirals, apart from Roger, Rocks and prime Garp.
With Whitebeard, he was also active throughout his life time, so people knew of his level even when he was old. And was still considered the strongest pirate/man unanimously.
Here is the issue though. Whenever someone sees old Whitebeard, he is either in meds or not too many hours off his meds. This Whitebeard has conqueror's haki on par with Shanks (Shanks is arguably best haki user currently alive), and has "always on" observation haki which allows him to one shot Ace when he joined (who was Jinbe level at minimum at joining), in his sleep.

I remember when I was first seeing Marineford a few years ago. I was spoiled on Ace dying (due to fandom wars discussions), but was otherwise completely oblivious about everything in the series, including WB dying in Marineford.
The hype and perception of Whitebeard's power was so strong in me, that I basically expected him to ragroll the admirals. I remember being mildly pissed/frustrated that Whitebeard wasn't just dominating the admirals, even after seeing Ace die right in front of his eyes.

Reality:
Whitebeard in Marineford was out of his meds for days, and as a result had non-existent conqueror's haki! While the WB we saw earlier with Shanks, was splitting sky with him.
The WB in Marineford was so sick that Squardo, who is nowhere close to Jinbe level, stabbed the dude when he was standing right in front of him. While, the WB in meds sees it coming and one shots Ace in his sleep!
He was getting heart attacks mid battle.
Everyone apart from the higher ups of WB pirates (who knew of the sickness and requirement of meds), were completely shocked at how weak this dude was. Crocodile getting pissed and calling him weak, with WB basically replying that he's just a man and can't be strongest forever.


****************************


Yeah, you're right there that the angst was more of Whitebeard vs Marines than the general Yonko vs Marines.
Whitebeard (and WB pirates in general) is treated quite differently compared to other 3 Yonkos and their crews. WB pirates were said to rule the sea, and was considered the strongest pirate force in the world.

Regarding "power to destroy the world", them being afraid they're completely screwed etc. I'm pretty sure it is specifically referring to his Devil Fruit ability, rather than his general combat stats.
And it did make sense in the context, Whitebeard can just sink the entire Marineford with his powers. Marines would've really been fucked if Whitebeard decided to use his DF in that manner, which he didn't because Ace was there as well.

As for the combat ability itself, prime Garp himself was a match for prime Whitebeard. Considering Roger, prime Garp and prime WB were all considered relative to each other.

 

[mood]

Very special devil fruit like freezing, laser beams, lava or gravity?

special in that it's designed to make surgeries, cure diseases, transfer organs and somehow grant eternal life. the fruit is designed to do damage from the inside unlike the lava, lazer or freezing attacks which were all shown to be very destructive but has to destroy outside defenses first before doing any internal damage.
although maybe awakening changes that idk but as far as we know COC is way more effective.

i mean luffy went from being cannon fodder in G4 against kaido to fighting equally in base form after he learnt how to use COC. you know the same G4 that beat doffy, cracker and katakuri got one shotted by big mom and kaido.

Fujitora didn't even remotely try against Luffy.

Wait until Oda proves you all wrong with how strong he's gonna show Akainu is, in the next arc.

Fujitora was literally panting after that attack. how can you confidently say that.

The Law/Kid fight made it crystal clear that you DON'T need advanced conqueror's to seriously damage a Yonko.

Even discounting Law's internal organ damage, Kid's attacks were clearly doing damage to BM. They broke her bones, made her cough up blood, made her scream in pain. and made her dodge.

Law/Kid weren't close based on what? They pushed her beyond her limits in a way nobody has made her in decades (her own words!), screwed up her organs, broke her bones etc. She was in a completely beat up state, even as she fell off.
Even discounting Big Mom falling off, everything until that point was ALREADY an extreme diff.

And Law/Kid would've just continued fighting, if the volcano didn't explode. (Why did it explode to begin with? Yeah, because Law's attack dug soo deep)
Yeah, they were claiming they've run out of stamina, But as soon as they sensed Luffy "lost", they got up and started preparing for fighting.

you're mixing things up,

the damage was mostly due to law's attacks, her words not mine

they weren't close to beating her is my opinion based on her final condition and the way she was taken out of the fight, she wasn't beaten only removed from the fight.
the same way when she fell into the water and lost consciousness when king kicked her ship.
all damage done to her including the broken ribs were quickly nullified due to her ability she regained her bones and health back.

 

[Fox666]

special in that it's designed to make surgeries, cure diseases, transfer organs and somehow grant eternal life. the fruit is designed to do damage from the inside unlike the lava, lazer or freezing attacks which were all shown to be very destructive but has to destroy outside defenses first before doing any internal damage.
although maybe awakening changes that idk but as far as we know COC is way more effective.

At least gravity is going to do damage from the inside

Big Mom was seriously hurt when she tried to grab one of the bombs in the basements... I think that while she has iron-like steel, it doesn't stop the heat transformer, meaning she was cooked alive

If that's of any indication, any of the Admirals can hurt them

 

[grey matter]

Fujitora was literally panting after that attack. how can you confidently say that.

He was panting from running around too much lol.

I don't even know what to say, if you think Fujitora would even remotely struggle against Dresrossa Luffy. This argument is quite ridiculous.

Even from basic scaling, Fujitora scales a lot above King and Katakuri.
King and Katakuri would stomp Dresrossa Luffy, it wouldn't even be funny.

Just wait for Oda to prove you completely wrong in the next arc

you're mixing things up,

the damage was mostly due to law's attacks, her words not mine

How would internal organ damage attack break bones? That is clearly Kid's doing.
All BM is saying here is that Law's attacks are more dangerous, which they are.

Let's even assume all that was Law, for the sake of argument.
Why did BM then flip over an entire tower, attempting to dodge attack from Kid? If it wasn't something she was wary about, clearly she would just tank it?
Why did BM scream in pain and cough up blood from Kid's attacks?

Clearly Kid's attack was doing considerable damage to BM too, though clearly Law's are hurting her more as well. Both can be true

they weren't close to beating her is my opinion based on her final condition and the way she was taken out of the fight, she wasn't beaten only removed from the fight.
the same way when she fell into the water and lost consciousness when king kicked her ship.
all damage done to her including the broken ribs were quickly nullified due to her ability she regained her bones and health back.

So, she ate up an year of her lifespan while admitting nobody pushed her this far in decades. Got her internal organs fucked up, her bones broken.
And you don't think they were close to winning? You think it's similar to how she got drowned by King? She claiming this wouldn't kill her, is equivalent to all this? Wow.

No, she didn't "regain" her bones and organs back.
She merely put souls in them to function them as independent entities, because they got fucked up that they are no longer naturally functional. The damage is still there, this was just a temporary fix to keep going on.

Even if you argue BM would've won if not for falling off, which is debatable. Everything until then was already an extreme diff. Period.

 

[mood]

He was panting from running around too much lol.

is this a real argument ?
you're right no need to continue this if you think fujitora got tired from running around