One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

I think prime Rayleigh can give prime WB a high-extreme diff.

Huh, what do you even consider a tier difference ? If two people are a high extreme diff fight for each other I consider them the same tier.

They both instilled fear in a Yonko crew. They’re both strong old man archetypes with no DF who are like mentors to Luffy. They both have goatees and battle scars. They are shown humbling modern top tiers such As Akainu, Kizaru and BB. Nani also knew about both of them but didn’t know who the Yonko were. Both were legendary figures of Roger era who are respected even today by the whole verse. Chinjao mentions both of them.

Ray was the dark king, the partner of Roger, a man just as worthy of being the king who instead stood in Roger’s shadow. Always portrayed side by side with Roger.

 

[grey matter]

Huh, what do you even consider a tier difference ? If two people are a high extreme diff fight for each other I consider them the same tier.

Yeah, what I'm saying is Rayleigh's best case scenario is giving WB a high-extreme diff. I missed out on putting "at best" there

Right now I think it is high diff, based on all the info we know right now. Because I think it is a Luffy/Zoro dynamics between Roger/Rayleigh, a strong right hand man but is a cut below the captain.
Generally speaking, Luffy high diffs Zoro (even though the gap usually varies from arc to arc - sometimes I feel it's high-extreme diff, currently I think it is mid diff but that will soon change)

And like I said, I think Rayleigh would be on the high-end of Yonko tiers. I think the those on high-end Yonko tier can give Roger and co a high diff.
Characters who I think are on the low/mid end of that tier, like BM, Kizaru etc. I think they get mid diff'd by Roger.

 

[LadyVados]

Yeah, what I'm saying is Rayleigh's best case scenario is giving WB a high-extreme diff. I missed out on putting "at best" there

Right now I think it is high diff, based on all the info we know right now. Because I think it will be a Luffy/Zoro dynamics, a strong right hand man but is a cut below the captain.
Generally speaking, Luffy high diffs Zoro (even though the gap usually varies from arc to arc - sometimes I feel it's high-extreme diff, currently I think it is mid diff but that will soon change)

And like I said, I think Rayleigh would be on the high-end of Yonko tiers. I think the those on high-end Yonko tier can give Roger and co a high diff.
Characters who I think are on the low/mid end of that tier, like BM, Kizaru etc. I think they get mid diff'd by Roger.

I disagree, I think Luffy and Zoro are mostly portrayed as nigh-equals. And Ray was similar for Roger. Prime Ray = Prime Garp and Old Ray = Old Garp. Their portrayal and hype is also very similar. I can’t imagine an Old Shanks or an old Kaido being hyped up like this and imitating Prime Yonkos and Admirals. I guarantee the final war we’ll see them teaming up to defeat some opponents and talking about how proud they are of Luffy.

And I have Bb as a high Yonko tier. His next power-up will make him PK tier.

 

[LadyVados]

Would Old Garp lose against this BB ? Yes he probably would due to old age and being inactive. I think most of us will agree on this. Rayleigh is on the same level.

 

[grey matter]

Huh, what do you even consider a tier difference ?

Varies, depending on the tier.

I think Law, Kid, Zoro, Yamato belongs in a tier above YC1s. Say YC1+
But I think YC1 can give them a high diff.

I think this is the same case for PK tier (basically Yonko+) and Yonko tier.

Between some other tiers, I think the gap is a lot more significant.
I think the gap between YC1+ and Yonko/admiral tier is a lot larger than between YC1+ and YC1. It is a mid diff between Yonko and YC1+
I think the gap between YC1 and other commanders is also pretty large, as seen with the big gap between King/Queen and Katakuri/Cracker.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2022 ---

I disagree, I think Luffy and Zoro are mostly portrayed as nigh-equals. And Ray was similar for Roger. Prime Ray = Prime Garp and Old Ray = Old Garp. Their portrayal and hype is also very similar. I can’t imagine an Old Shanks or an old Kaido being hyped up like this and imitating Prime Yonkos and Admirals. I guarantee the final war we’ll see them teaming up to defeat some opponents and talking about how proud they are of Luffy.

And I have Bb as a high Yonko tier. His next power-up will make him PK tier.

Nah, at best you can argue they are portrayed to be in same tier. But Luffy is always stronger than Zoro.
He gets the strongest opponent for a reason.....

 

[LadyVados]

Varies, depending on the tier.

I think Law, Kid, Zoro, Yamato belongs in a tier above YC1s. Say YC1+
But I think YC1 can give them a high diff.

I think this is the same case for PK tier (basically Yonko+) and Yonko tier.

Between some other tiers, I think the gap is a lot more significant.
I think the gap between YC1+ and Yonko/admiral tier is a lot larger than between YC1+ and YC1. It is a mid diff between Yonko and YC1+
I think the gap between YC1 and other commanders is also pretty large, as seen with the big gap between King/Queen and Katakuri/Cracker.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2022 ---

Nah, at best you can argue they are portrayed to be in same tier. But Luffy is always stronger than Zoro.
He gets the strongest opponent for a reason.....

Luffy gets the strongest opponent because he is the MC. Vegeta or Yuno don’t get the strongest opponent either.

If you agree Luffy and Zoro are in the same tier then so are Roger and Rayleigh.

 

[grey matter]

Luffy gets the strongest opponent because he is the MC. Vegeta or Yuno don’t get the strongest opponent either.

Yea, and we know Goku > Vegeta

If you agree Luffy and Zoro are in the same tier then so are Roger and Rayleigh.

I said that is the best case scenario for Luffy/Zoro.

I think you also agree current Luffy mid diff current Zoro?
Zoro can be anywhere from giving Luffy a high-extreme diff (i.e same tier but on opposite ends), to giving Luffy a mid diff.

Rayleigh can fit in this range as well. We don't know where exactly

 

[LadyVados]

Yea, and we know Goku > Vegeta



I said that is the best case scenario for Luffy/Zoro.

I think you also agree current Luffy mid diff current Zoro?
Zoro can be anywhere from giving Luffy a high-extreme diff (i.e same tier but on opposite ends), to giving Luffy a mid diff.

Rayleigh can fit in this range as well. We don't know where exactly

You’re the one who’s definitively saying he gets high-diffed.

Vegeta always keeps up with him and is seen by most people as his nigh-equal.

The current situation is an outlier. The gap isn’t normally this big.

And it could be argued Zoro is just one power-up from closing this gap. He’s much stronger than Luffy was last arc.

I think the nigh-equal portrayal throughout the manga is a better indicator as to their EOS power levels than the current outlier as well as to Roger and Rayleigh’s relative power levels.

He’s the dark king not the dark emperor or the dark admiral.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2022 ---

How are you guys speculating so much about power levels after this chapter? The only thing that is clear is that Blackbeard is stronger than Rayleigh that's it

And that Prime Ray is stronger than BB. The argument is whether he’s a tier above or the same tier but microscopically stronger.

 

[LadyVados]

The funny thing is after film red it was like Shanks is the strongest Yonko and he washes Kaido so even if Zoro scarred him it doesn’t mean shit. Last chapter everyone was like Shanks is the weakest Yonko and BB and Kaido would wash him so even if Mihawk is above him it doesn’t mean anything. Now suddenly Bb is trash and all the other Yonko wash him so Ray being above him doesn’t mean anything.

People like @grey matter now have 20 different sub-tiers in Yonko level.

Everyone in a tier is comparable. If Ray can decisively defeat BB he can decisively beat Kaido or Shanks as well.

 

[grey matter]

You’re the one who’s definitively saying he gets high-diffed.

I didn't say anything is definitive lmao.

I said that it is my default position, in absence of any other info.

Vegeta always keeps up with him and is seen by most people as his nigh-equal.

Nah, consensus is that Goku > Vegeta

The current situation is an outlier. The gap isn’t normally this big.

I agree

And it could be argued Zoro is just one power-up from closing this gap. He’s much stronger than Luffy was last arc.

Sure, possible. But what says Luffy won't get some powerup as well?
We can talk if/when that happens.

Yeah, he is stronger than Luffy in WCI arc. I would put current Zoro at 1010 Luffy level.

I think the nigh-equal portrayal throughout the manga is a better indicator as to their EOS power levels than the current outlier as well as to Roger and Rayleigh’s relative power levels.

Not throughout the manga.

In certain parts, they were shown in comparable light. Like some parts of early arcs, Dresrossa, and initial rooftop.
In certain parts, Luffy is shown to be much stronger.

The funny thing is after film red it was like Shanks is the strongest Yonko and he washes Kaido so even if Zoro scarred him it doesn’t mean shit. Last chapter everyone was like Shanks is the weakest Yonko and BB and Kaido would wash him so even if Mihawk is above him it doesn’t mean anything. Now suddenly Bb is trash and all the other Yonko wash him so Ray being above him doesn’t mean anything.

People like @grey matter now have 20 different sub-tiers in Yonko level.

Everyone in a tier is comparable. If Ray can decisively defeat BB he can decisively beat Kaido or Shanks as well.

What are you even talking about?
I think the consensus amongst fans is that Shanks is on the high-end of his tier. You need to get off worstgen if you think Shanks, Mihawk etc being some low Yonko are what "everyone" says lmao, people push agendas there all the time.
Actually, if you check the polls there, overwhelming majority there puts Mihawk on or above the Yonkos. So what're you talking about?

Nobody is claiming other Yonkos wash BB either. The argument is just that prime Rayleigh being > current BB isn't enough to put him at Roger level. Stop strawmanning

I think Kaido can decisively beat BM.
Doesn't mean they aren't on same tier lol. You can decisively beat someone while being on same tier.

 

[Franz]

Aokiji mentioned Doflamingo along with Hancock, and he was YC3 tier.

What ?


Mingo Is more strong than that

 

[McNuss]

Vegeta or Yuno don’t get the strongest opponent either.

I don't know who Yuno is, but having read Dragon Ball quite a couple of times, this is inaccurate. Be it Freeza, Cell or Majin Buu, Vegeta is always put up against them, too. It's Dragon Ball, typically everyone is put up against the main villain, which makes Tier Lists in that series so easy, because it is intended to be easy to understand who is the strongest at all times.

 

[grey matter]

What ?


Mingo Is more strong than that

No. He got defeated by G4 Luffy who was relative to Cracker.

Doflamingo was nerfed? Yeah. But at best he would've been relative to G4 Luffy instead of getting dominated

 

[XXGenesis]

Valid Points have been made..The PK isn’t a true power level tier…it’s an accomplishment Tier/Title.

Prime Roger & WB we’re Equals. The manga says so, we’ve seen a serious clash in a flashback between the two…Not like Kaido vs BM.

The fan bases Uses PK as a tier because to date no character has risen to the status of Prime WB/Roger.

PK/Yonkou/Fleet Admiral/Admiral are all the same tier…Top Marines/Top Pirates…

Yonkou exist on the same tier as Admirals but Yonkou’s as individuals are stronger.

It’s ok to use low/mid/high for Tier levels. Especially when it makes no sense to differentiate small gaps between opponents….

Rayleigh imo was Low Yonkou now imo he’s YC1+…

 

[albertwv]

And..... we're back to discussing pirate king or Yonko or prime Roger/wb power levels. Anything new here?
Honestly it gets boring and repetitive.
Can we seriously just discuss something else? We're not going anywhere with these discussions until new data is presented.

 

[M3J]

Luffy gets the strongest opponent because he is the MC. Vegeta or Yuno don’t get the strongest opponent either.

If you agree Luffy and Zoro are in the same tier then so are Roger and Rayleigh.

Vegeta always gets the strongest opponent, and he either starts out doing well but gets his ass kicked or gets his ass kicked from the get-go. Zoro sometimes gets the strongest opponent, like Hodi, but that's rare as Oda isn't making this manga out to be like DBZ, where fights are super simple.

 

[LadyVados]

@grey matter

RIP to all the Rayleigh downplayers.

He said if he was a little younger he would have soloed BB AND his crew.

Even Current Rayleigh is probably stronger than BB, he just wasn’t sure he could beat BB and his crew.

A slightly younger Ray would have soloed the BB pirates and their crew.

Not even Prime Ray, a slightly younger Ray.

Prime Garp-tier Prime Ray is pretty much guaranteed now. No Yonko not named WB is soloing another Yonko crew. It’s pretty clear from this chapter that Ray was a different level of opponent.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Spoiler: 1059

@grey matter

RIP to all the Rayleigh downplayers.

He said if he was a little younger he would have soloed BB AND his crew.

Even Current Rayleigh is probably stronger than BB, he just wasn’t sure he could beat BB and his crew.

A slightly younger Ray would have soloed the BB pirates and their crew.

Not even Prime Ray, a slightly younger Ray.

Prime Garp-tier Prime Ray is pretty much guaranteed now. No Yonko not named WB is soloing another Yonko crew. It’s pretty clear from this chapter that Ray was a different level of opponent.

Bruh, you have the worst power scaling lol

Is Old Ray stronger than Kaido as well?

 

[LadyVados]

Bruh, you have the worst power scaling lol

Is Old Ray stronger than Kaido as well?

He’s probably stronger but loses because of stamina issues.

 

[Pirate Queen]

He’s probably stronger but loses because of stamina issues.

You can't be serious. It was a joke