One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Enima]

@Enima i like your avatar! That point on some dough for Mama was priceless too xDDD

Thanks

How was Sanji struggling against Vergo? Again, despite exhaustion/damage his body took while Nami was occupied, Sanji still fought, fractured his leg, and proceeded to run like he was never injured. And if I recall, the skirmish was short, and Vergo's Color of Armament was considered to be one of the best at the time. Sanji didn't really have a proper fight here.

He broke his leg while Vergo remained uninjured so you could say he was struggling. Vergo was more likely to win that fight than Sanji. If two guys were fighting, One guy is unharmed while the other guy is injured and you're asked to bet on one of the two fighters, who would you bet on?

Vergo's armament Haki wasn't anything special. Law managed to easily cut him after he got his heart back. Vergo is much weaker than Law. If Vergo's Haki was strong then Law shouldn't have been able to cut him.

Again, show me one person who wouldn't have lost against Doflamingo. Sanji came into the fight with little to no information with the intent to save Nami and others. Law, who knew plenty about Doflamingo, still got beaten to shit, as did Luffy despite Law's gamma knife fatally wounding Doflamingo. Luffy would have lost without Law and the gladiators, so I don't see how this takes away from Sanji even though he was tied up by the boss of the arc.

We know Luffy wasn't fighting at his full potential because he wasn't using Gear 4 from the beginning. As far as know Law didn't get Instantly fodderized like sanji. The way they lost makes a difference. Doflamingo was basically playing with Sanji, show me one panel in which Doflamingo actually looks serious against Sanji.

All three of them would lose but Doflamingo actually needs to go all out to defeat Luffy (and even then he can barely win) and he needs too put in some effort to defeat Law. With Sanji, he was just playing around.

You're basically saying that Nami and Luffy are the same because they would both lose if they fought a yonko. but that's not how it works. Sanji got fodderized, Law and Luffy weren't.

If Gear 4 was enough, Luffy would have used it to beat Katakuri by now.

He hasn't used it yet, we can't tell until he uses it. Against Doflamingo, If Luffy had used G4 from the beginning then Doflamingo would've been damaged to the point where Law could easily kill him, but Luffy didn't do that. He tends to hold back most of the time. So we can't assume Gear 4 isn't enough.

Doflamingo even praises Sanji again. And the following page shows us Sanji being shocked he can't move and not knowing why.

Dude you're taking his praise way too seriously. It's the sort of thing that you tell your five year old brother when he punches you and you feel something. Doflamingo praised him because he wasn't useless like the rest of the strawhats there. Sanji is pretty strong compared to most fighters. It's sort of like when Luffy told Fujitora that he's gonna take down the yonkos and Fujitora told him he had the strength to back up his words.

 

[M3J]

Thanks


He broke his leg while Vergo remained uninjured so you could say he was struggling. Vergo was more likely to win that fight than Sanji. If two guys were fighting, One guy is unharmed while the other guy is injured and you're asked to bet on one of the two fighters, who would you bet on?

Vergo's armament Haki wasn't anything special. Law managed to easily cut him after he got his heart back. Vergo is much weaker than Law. If Vergo's Haki was strong then Law shouldn't have been able to cut him.

You're welcome.

He broke his leg, but he was still running and moving around like nothing happened. Not to mention, did Sanji even use haki against Vergo's haki? That fight was too short to determine anything but Sanji and Vergo being evenly matched and Vergo's haki being pretty good. Few seconds of pain was all Sanji showed before continuing to stay away from the poisonous gas.

Law used shambles, he didn't literally cut Vergo. We don't know if haki can deal with something like that, especially since it doesn't look like it involves cutting or hurting the victim in any way. Fight between Sanji and Vergo is still too inconclusive to determine anything but the fact that Sanji had one hell of a durability/resilient body. Given he even impressed Katakuri and dodged his attack, nothing really states he's not a match for Katakuri. If Sanji's Color of Observation is good, and his speed is superior to Luffy's, he could win this even if he is weaker than Luffy. Either way though, we agree that Luffy is in no condition to be beating Katakuri, yes?

We know Luffy wasn't fighting at his full potential because he wasn't using Gear 4 from the beginning. As far as know Law didn't get Instantly fodderized like sanji. The way they lost makes a difference. Doflamingo was basically playing with Sanji, show me one panel in which Doflamingo actually looks serious against Sanji.

All three of them would lose but Doflamingo actually needs to go all out to defeat Luffy (and even then he can barely win) and he needs too put in some effort to defeat Law. With Sanji, he was just playing around.

You're basically saying that Nami and Luffy are the same because they would both lose if they fought a yonko. but that's not how it works. Sanji got fodderized, Law and Luffy weren't.

Sanji didn't get instantly fodderized, and he had to be tied up. Law and Luffy would likely have been "fodderized" as well if they were either tied up like Sanji or didn't have help in each other and the gladiators. Show me a panel that shows he was playing with Sanji. HE wasn't going all out, but he wasn't playing either.

"Barely win" is a weird way to say that Doflamingo would have beaten Luffy if it weren't for Luffy getting help throughout the fight.

I never said or implied that. And again, Sanji by himself whereas Luffy and Law had each other for most of the fight. Were either ever tied up the way Sanji was? Not to mention, it doesn't look like Katakuri has a solid defense that'd give Sanji that sort of trouble. He just has to deal with Katakuri's ability to see a bit into the future and react accordingly. Luffy tends to be straightforward whereas Sanji tends to be a smarter fighter, so he'd stand a better chance than Luffy against someone like Katakuri.

He hasn't used it yet, we can't tell until he uses it. Against Doflamingo, If Luffy had used G4 from the beginning then Doflamingo would've been damaged to the point where Law could easily kill him, but Luffy didn't do that. He tends to hold back most of the time. So we can't assume Gear 4 isn't enough.


Dude you're taking his praise way too seriously. It's the sort of thing that you tell your five year old brother when he punches you and you feel something. Doflamingo praised him because he wasn't useless like the rest of the strawhats there. Sanji is pretty strong compared to most fighters. It's sort of like when Luffy told Fujitora that he's gonna take down the yonkos and Fujitora told him he had the strength to back up his words.

Given Luffy is in trouble and has to beat Katakuri, there's no reason for him not to uses Gear 4 after he threw Katakuri and himself into the mirror world. Even now he's getting the shit beaten out of him. If he does even go Gear 4 next chapter, I doubt it'll work unless he can up his speed to beat Katakuri's insight and reflexes combined.

Most likely, or DOflamingo would have found a way to dealt with Gear 4 if he wasn't as badly injured.

How's that even comparable? Why else would Doflamingo praise an enemy who's not even a captain or has a high bounty? He was impressed enough by Sanji's strength before he bound Sanji up.

Someone posted a different translation so who knows. Could have also meant Luffy had the courage/mettle to take down the Yonkou and become the pirate king.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Zoro came out of fujitora's griphold who is clearly stronger than DD so you cant use that excuse for sanji.

The time Fujitora was toying around while Doflamingo was trying to kill Sanji?
And so many could not do anything this technique of Doflamingo, do not see any problem with that. But not going to start this debate with DD again.

Having an idea or not of other's powers doesnt matter much if you are not strong enough to deal with it

Does not matter if you cannot deal with the power. The point here is the assumption that Sanji would be a better fit to do something against Katakuri's fighting style and capacities.

 

[Windfall Island]

The time Fujitora was toying around while Doflamingo was trying to kill Sanji?
And so many could not do anything this technique of Doflamingo, do not see any problem with that. But not going to start this debate with DD again.


Does not matter if you cannot deal with the power. The point here is the assumption that Sanji would be a better fit to do something against Katakuri's fighting style and capacities.

Fujitora surely wasnt planning on to let zoro come out of his grip.His df is basically holding someone down to gravity so that his victim cant move.Why make that attack in the first place then if he didnt intend to hold zoro down and yet zoro came out of it ? He uses comets, swords etc for more offensive moves.

Luffy G4 fodderized DD (even in his awakened state) and a non awakened DD fodderized sanji. Thats the fact.
So many others not being able to do anything either dont count at all. Here the debate is between luffy and sanji. And all that matters is whether luffy would have got out of it or not. And since zoro can come out of an admiral's grip hold then so can luffy.
Anyways this topic is not related to this chapter so I wont prefer debating about it here.

katakuri's capacities are far above sanji.Thats the deciding factor while fighting style is a secondary factor .








I just noticed something that in the previous chapters even Fujitora and Kizaru were shown to have CoO on same level as that of katakuri.
Chapter 724 fujitora predicts that battle will move to dressrosa from green bit.
Kizaru at MF after being kicked from marco into the wall said that expect attacks from air just before jozu threw that huge block of ice.

 

[Enima]

Law used shambles, he didn't literally cut Vergo. We don't know if haki can deal with something like that, especially since it doesn't look like it involves cutting or hurting the victim in any way.

Law can't deal with opponents with strong Haki using his DF ability. That's why he couldn't just cut Doflamingo.

and his speed is superior to Luffy's

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Luffy managed to blitz Doflamingo in G4 Sanji couldn't do that. Having a better observation Haki doesn't mean you're faster, it just means you have better observation Haki.

he could win this even if he is weaker than Luffy.

The difference in strength between Sanji and Katakuri is too much. It's Impossible to overcome that difference through something as simple as an advantage and even If that's possible Sanji doesn't have an advantage. Katakuri is superior to Sanji in every way. Luffy can beat Katakuri's strength and speed in G4.

Either way though, we agree that Luffy is in no condition to be beating Katakuri, yes?

It's possible if he could combine Gear four with fire or something like that. But Luffy's chances are much higher than Sanji's

Law and Luffy would likely have been "fodderized" as well if they were either tied up like Sanji or didn't have help in each other and the gladiators.

Luffy and Law are too strong to be tied up. Law could just teleport himself and Luffy could just break the strings. Most of the time Luffy and Law were fighting Doflamingo on their own.

"Barely win" is a weird way to say that Doflamingo would have beaten Luffy if it weren't for Luffy getting help throughout the fight.

Throughout the fight? The gladiators helped Luffy survive for the ten minutes he was out of Haki. Doflamingo was one hit away from defeat.

Were either ever tied up the way Sanji was?

Most of the time they were too strong to be tied up. But when Luffy was exhausted Doflamingo managed to tie him up. But Luffy broke the strings using Gear 4 and then Knocked him out.

Not to mention, it doesn't look like Katakuri has a solid defense that'd give Sanji that sort of trouble. He just has to deal with Katakuri's ability to see a bit into the future and react accordingly. Luffy tends to be straightforward whereas Sanji tends to be a smarter fighter, so he'd stand a better chance than Luffy against someone like Katakuri.

This is like bleach where most people are so focused on Aizen's special ability that they actually forget how strong he is. Observation Haki is Katakuri's best skill but even without that, he's a monster. you saw how easily he overpowered elephant gun. Sanji simply doesn't have the power to face Katakuri.

Luffy is a genius at fighting he just tends to Hold back a lot. How is Sanji a smarter fighter? He basically fights the same way Luffy does.

Given Luffy is in trouble and has to beat Katakuri, there's no reason for him not to uses Gear 4 after he threw Katakuri and himself into the mirror world. Even now he's getting the shit beaten out of him. If he does even go Gear 4 next chapter, I doubt it'll work unless he can up his speed to beat Katakuri's insight and reflexes combined.

Doflamingo pretty much had to say "Imma kill everyone unless you beat me right now" for Luffy to use Gear 4. Luffy doesn't go all out from the start and G4 increases his speed by a lot.

Most likely, or DOflamingo would have found a way to dealt with Gear 4 if he wasn't as badly injured.

Luffy was fighting the whole day so he was running out of Haki too.

How's that even comparable? Why else would Doflamingo praise an enemy who's not even a captain or has a high bounty? He was impressed enough by Sanji's strength before he bound Sanji up.

Yeah, even Fujitora was impressed with Luffy. That doesn't really mean anything. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Windfall Island]

Pff are you one of these who want to make their point of view the truth? And putting in it bold? I can argue to you that Sanji managed to overcome Katakuri's anticipating skills, what a pathetic fail for someone who has capacities far above...

The deciding factor? Like Luffy was never on the verge of losing or fuc**** it up facing opponents weaker than him because they were tricking him And there are so many counter examples, I will not even start.

If this is the way you debate, clearly no need to start. We are just dicussing elements why Sanji would potentially be able to fight Katakuri, not even that he would necessarily win. And you come with your "Katakuri is stronger than Sanji". Yeah okay, thank you.


So going back to the discussion; the arc also started on the pathetic way Luffy was cooking, I can imagine Oda will come back to that and highlight the importance of Sanji and his cooking skills like he did with the bento he prepared for Luffy. Either with the cake or / and with some fighting capacities. So many children of Big Mom have food based skills, can Sanji do something about that, showing new skills like when he faced Wanze?

Funny how you ignored this :" Luffy G4 fodderized DD (even in his awakened state) and a non awakened DD fodderized sanji. Thats the fact. " of my previous reply.

And this :"Luffy G4 fodderized DD (even in his awakened state) and a non awakened DD fodderized sanji. Thats the fact." is not an opinion its a fact.It actually happened in the manga.
And this is what establishes luffy is far above sanji.
You can keep on coming up with excuses that sanji didnt know dd's powers and all that if that makes you feel any good but you'll be in the minority.
No need to shoot accusations.
If this is the way you debate feel free to quote someone else.


I believe we agreed somewhat before that sanji might save luffy. We disagreed on if he alone would suffice against katakuri. Was it you or no wait that was @M3J i guess.
Sanji in my opinion might save luffy after jinbei instructs him to do so (as he has sensed something wrong already).

Sanji can win against a weakened katakuri + maybe he would be given raid suit by germa but katakuri being weak beforehand is a necessity.
Although I found it unlikely to happen but if it does the hate sanji that is getting right now due to lack of progression in strength that hate might have come down a bit.

If this was meant to be sanji's arc wouldnt it have been the best place to show all that he has learnt in training.

Do not expect me to talk about this luffy vs sanji thing anymore.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Do not expect me to talk about this luffy vs sanji thing anymore

I was not even talking about Sanji vs Luffy. Anyway since your comparison is totally irrelevant, I need not to answer.

Sanji improved after the timeskip but he's far back behind luffy, luffy's Kong punch sent doffy flying downtown, his kkg has city destruction level, how can sanji compete with that?, I honestly don't understand why you think sanji is close to luffy in terms of fighting prowess,

You're basing your argument on the assumption that sanji haven't gone all out yet?, going all out won't still take him near luffy's level,

chapter 856pg12, Sanji said he disrespected and injured his captain to the BEST of his ability, it's clearly stated, he didn't hold back to knock out luffy, again,

Okay now, I see what you mean along with Windfall, because I say Sanji could be a better suited opponent for Katakuri does not mean he is stronger than Luffy...Same if I tell you Zoro is a better opponent to defeat Mihawk. So it was never question of Sanji being stronger than Luffy and I never argued in this way.
Did I mention something about Sanji not going all out? do not think so.

it shouldn't even be an argument, luffy is far above sanji,

And it is not. Well not from my side.

I am simply suggesting the elements to ground that a Sanji vs Katakuri could happen and would be interesting in many ways. Seriously these discussions about "who is stronger than" should stop

Maybe Luffy is sparing his G4 until he grasps how to answer to Kata's moves. Because he knows he is not in a position to waste his energy.
He is looking for a weak point in Kata's strategy. I could buy this explanation for why he didn't use G4 until now

I hope for a different issue, Cracker and DD were enough for fights where Luffy's other techniques were not doing much and he goes into G4 and he crushed suddenly his opponent.

 

[Windfall Island]

I was not even talking about Sanji vs Luffy. Anyway since your comparison is totally irrelevant, I need not to answer.



Okay now, I see what you mean along with Windfall, because I say Sanji could be a better suited opponent for Katakuri does not mean he is stronger than Luffy...Same if I tell you Zoro is a better opponent to defeat Mihawk. So it was never question of Sanji being stronger than Luffy and I never argued in this way.
Did I mention something about Sanji not going all out? do not think so.


And it is not. Well not from my side.

I am simply suggesting the elements to ground that a Sanji vs Katakuri could happen and would be interesting in many ways. Seriously these discussions about "who is stronger than" should stop



I hope for a different issue, Cracker and DD were enough for fights where Luffy's other techniques were not doing much and he goes into G4 and he crushed suddenly his opponent.

i see .
After reading your reply to kingsley i got a better insight into your perspective on this topic.

Well initially I had replied to M3j and since you quoted my reply to him , i assumed that you too held exactly same thoughts on this topic as him.
maybe thats what caused the misunderstanding.

never mind. Glad to see this issue being cleared up .
Since you have said already that sanji vs luffy was not what you meant so we can leave it be.

now i get your point . Well i would say on it that sanji maybe a better suited opponent but since he is nowhere near to katakuri in terms of strength & speed + sanji may have dodged one of kata's beans but obviously his CoO isnt at that level for sure.
So what i am saying is that despite of being a better suited opponent this match up advantage of him is too less in comparison to the strength speed disadvantage (in my opinion) that he would face.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Sanji wasnt confused or shocked , he simply couldn't move.He was weak .

Yeah even Jozu couldn’t move, so I guess jozu is weak too??
Irregular ass logic

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2017 ---

Luffy and Law are too strong to be tied up. Law could just teleport himself and Luffy could just break the strings. Most of the time Luffy and Law were fighting Doflamingo on their own.

Okay so their fruit helps them?? Does Sanji have a fruit??
In Fishmen Island Zoro got caught in a cage does that make him a weakling?? No, understand some things happen for plot is all I’ll ssy

 

[Windfall Island]

Yeah even Jozu couldn’t move, so I guess jozu is weak too??
Irregular ass logic

First off do you too believe that luffy and sanji are on the same level coz my reply was on that context ? So clearly state your opinion on luffy vs sanji thing.

jozu was attacked from the back. DD knew he wouldnt be able to grip jozu if he had confronted him from the front else he would have attacked him from the front.

Also not sure how long DD could have held jozu anyways coz even zoro got held by fujitora's powers for a few moment before he got out of it.

But sanji was confronted from the front. Big difference. Thus no excuse acceptable for sanji. And he couldnt get out of it either.

 

[Ketimatsu]

never mind. Glad to see this issue being cleared up .
Since you have said already that sanji vs luffy was not what you meant so we can leave it be.

Yeah no problem

So what i am saying is that despite of being a better suited opponent this match up advantage of him is too less in comparison to the strength speed disadvantage (in my opinion) that he would face

Yeah highly possible, still Luffy seems so down right now that maybe he is better than a Luffy who has been fighting strong opponents for a while now. But it is true, looking at Sanji post skip, it even seems he is weaker than before actually, so I rather say he is far far behind the rest of the crew. xD

Yet he used to be a strong fighter, but has not shown anything in 8 years, so if Oda wants to put him back on stage, I guess it is now or never. Otherwise he will remain the useless cook (did he cook more than a couple of times for the crew since the skip? cannot remember).

Also on Dressrosa I thought Zoro was actually way more impressive than Luffy, Pica looked amazingly strong, maybe overrated but still he was quite impressive, and I do not remember he landed any hit on Zoro who did not sweat to defeat him. Long time ago Zoro and Sanji were not so far. If Sanji were to defeat Katakuri, next move Luffy would need to defeat Big Mom, too much power up in a short amout of time I guess.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

First off do you too believe that luffy and sanji are on the same level coz my reply was on that context ? So clearly state your opinion on luffy vs sanji thing.

jozu was attacked from the back. DD knew he wouldnt be able to grip jozu if he had confronted him from the front else he would have attacked him from the front.

Also not sure how long DD could have held jozu anyways coz even zoro got held by fujitora's powers for a few moment before he got out of it.

But sanji was confronted from the front. Big difference. Thus no excuse acceptable for sanji. And he couldnt get out of it either.

Okay Luffy is stronger than Sanji, but that argument just won’t cut it with me. If you don’t know about your opponents ability you’re at a large I’m disadvantage. Luffy trying to hit Trebol and flopping before Law cut him up is a representative of this. Luffy punching through Katakuri is another representative of this same as him punching through Prometheus.
Front or back getting caught bay someone’s ability is not a way to argue something. Katakuri almost trapped Luffy at the wedding if not for Jimbei . Perospero trapped the vinsmokes but ichiji decked him after (just saying ichiji might be stronger than perso).
But anyways slander sanji if you want but I think MJ is just trying to say he’s a better match for Katakuri. Also you are forgetting that Sanji fight with his wits about him, but he was enraged when he confronted doffy, so doffy used that against him.
Yeah if fujitora did a follow up attack while Zoro was trapped would he have stopped it?? Because that’s what doffy did. He trapped him and cut him up. Fuji however was not really planning on killing or fight SHP, he was acting in the interest of the WG

 

[Enima]

Okay so their fruit helps them?? Does Sanji have a fruit??

Nope. Luffy was just too strong. Doflamingo didn't use his strings because he can't control strong people. He never tried to control Luffy when he was at full power. He only tried it after he was weakened. Even If he did manage to trap Luffy he could easily break out if he's at full power.

In Fishmen Island Zoro got caught in a cage does that make him a weakling??

Nope, even Roger was kept in a cage why would I call him a weakling because he was kept in a cage. It was most likely built to handle Haki users. And Zoro didn't even have his sword with him.

Yeah if fujitora did a follow up attack while Zoro was trapped would he have stopped it??

Yeah because Zoro managed to get out of Fujitora's Gravity. Sanji couldn't get out of Doflamingo's strings.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Nope. Luffy was just too strong. Doflamingo didn't use his strings because he can't control strong people. He never tried to control Luffy when he was at full power. He only tried it after he was weakened. Even If he did manage to trap Luffy he could easily break out if he's at full power.

Honestly where is this coming from?? The same weak Luffy knocked him out so miss me with that he can only control weak people. So Jozu must be weak then?? Luffy broke it with G4, which I don’t understand.
Remember Trebol trapping Luffy and Luffy needing Law to save his ass?? Why not use his strength then?? Because he had no understanding of the power.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 7, 2017 ---

Nope, even Roger was kept in a cage why would I call him a weakling because he was kept in a cage. It was most likely built to handle Haki users. And Zoro didn't even have his sword with him.

Bringing roger into it is a rubbish reason. In case you don’t understand roger surrendered. It’s not like he didn’t wannabe die. Or else he woulda used Haki on his back at his execution

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 7, 2017 ---

Yeah because Zoro managed to get out of Fujitora's Gravity. Sanji couldn't get out of Doflamingo's strings.

Fujitora didn’t trap Zoro there a difference between trapping and attcking. The point he made Zoro go down under he coulda finished off the job with meteors but he didn’t for plot purposes. Doffy however deemed Sanji and an obstruction so he tried to finish him off so he attacked him after restraining him. The fact still remains that Zoro got trapped, however fujitora coulda just decimated him but chose not to. Even Zoro needed time to react to the attack and come up with a counter.

 

[Enima]

Remember Trebol trapping Luffy and Luffy needing Law to save his ass?? Why not use his strength then?? Because he had no understanding of the power.

He wasn't trapped. If he was really trapped he would've used Gear 4. How can you say he was trapped when he wasn't even using his full strength.

The same weak Luffy knocked him out so miss me with that he can only control weak people.

Nope the Luffy that Knocked him out was G4 Luffy. Doflamingo was unable to control Gear 4 Luffy.

So Jozu must be weak then??

Why is Jozu weak? Jozu was caught off guard when he was fighting crocodile and he was only caught for a moment, Doflamingo wasn't close to killing him like he was with Sanji.

Bringing roger into it is a rubbish reason. In case you don’t understand roger surrendered. It’s not like he didn’t wannabe die. Or else he woulda used Haki on his back at his execution

He was kept in a cage. So there must be cages that can handle strong Haki users. Roger wasn't gonna escape, but how do the marines know that, for all they know It might all be a trap. He's the most dangerous man in the world.

Fujitora didn’t trap Zoro there a difference between trapping and attcking. The point he made Zoro go down under he coulda finished off the job with meteors but he didn’t for plot purposes.

Uh.... Because Zoro got out before Fujitora could do anything.

Here, Zoro is trying to overcome the Gravity

Spoiler

And in the next page he attacks Fujitora

Spoiler

Fujitora did trap him using his gravity and Zoro managed to get out (pretty easily too)

Doffy however deemed Sanji and an obstruction so he tried to finish him off so he attacked him after restraining him. The fact still remains that Zoro got trapped, however fujitora coulda just decimated him but chose not to.

Both Sanji and Zoro got trapped

Sanji got retrained by Doflamingo while Zoro got trapped by Fujitora

Sanji was save by Law, Zoro got out of it himself and then attacked Fujitora.

The fact still remains that Zoro got trapped, however fujitora coulda just decimated him but chose not to. Even Zoro needed time to react to the attack and come up with a counter.

Zoro literally gets back up after a single page. That's as fast as it can get. Zoro didn't even really get trapped, he was surprised by Fujitora's attack as he didn't know what Fujitora's power was (just like how Sanji didn't know what Doflamingo's power was). And then just get's up.

Yup Zoro got trapped and he got out of it on his own within a short amount of time while Sanji got trapped and got saved by Law. We also have to consider the fact that Admirals are people who can Give yonkos a hard time While Doflamingo got streamrolled by Gear 4 Luffy. So there is a vast difference in their strength too.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

He wasn't trapped. If he was really trapped he would've used Gear 4. How can you say he was trapped when he wasn't even using his full strength.


Nope the Luffy that Knocked him out was G4 Luffy. Doflamingo was unable to control Gear 4 Luffy.


Why is Jozu weak? Jozu was caught off guard when he was fighting crocodile and he was only caught for a moment, Doflamingo wasn't close to killing him like he was with Sanji.


He was kept in a cage. So there must be cages that can handle strong Haki users. Roger wasn't gonna escape, but how do the marines know that, for all they know It might all be a trap. He's the most dangerous man in the world.


Uh.... Because Zoro got out before Fujitora could do anything.

Here, Zoro is trying to overcome the Gravity

Spoiler

And in the next page he attacks Fujitora

Spoiler

Fujitora did trap him using his gravity and Zoro managed to get out (pretty easily too)


Both Sanji and Zoro got trapped

Sanji got retrained by Doflamingo while Zoro got trapped by Fujitora

Sanji was save by Law, Zoro got out of it himself and then attacked Fujitora.


Zoro literally gets back up after a single page. That's as fast as it can get. Zoro didn't even really get trapped, he was surprised by Fujitora's attack as he didn't know what Fujitora's power was (just like how Sanji didn't know what Doflamingo's power was). And then just get's up.

Yup Zoro got trapped and he got out of it on his own within a short amount of time while Sanji got trapped and got saved by Law. We also have to consider the fact that Admirals are people who can Give yonkos a hard time While Doflamingo got streamrolled by Gear 4 Luffy. So there is a vast difference in their strength too.

How can you say Sanji was trapped when he wasn’t using his full strength then?? You operating on double standards??
Oh btw the same doffy that trapped lift was the beaten up doffy, with his insides ripped apart and his face bashed up up he still trapped him?? But he he growl out because of the strength his df give him so he’s strong.
How’d you know he was caught for a moment didn’t he go about rampaging and beating up everyone??
Since were talking about the war Marco who also got caught by a hidden ability is weak too innit??
Well strong hasn’t told us about Bcage made especially for haki users so you’re just speculating. Hardest material in Op universe is Kairoseki. Don’t know if it’s festructible yet.
Fact still remains fujitora was not serious against Zoro and he pressured Zoro. The second time they med Zoro was cautious of the ability becuse he had experienced it before which is my point both Zoro and Sanji got caught cos they didn’t know about it. Sanji’s was a trap to destroy. Fujitora only did gravity on Zoro to deter him from attacking doffy. If he attacked Zoro to hurt then Zoro will be wrapped up in bandages right now.Admiral or not who trapped Marco at the war?? Oh a vice admira. A lesser ranked person. But he is stronger than him?? Why did he get trapped?? He didn’t know about the ability. Did he escape?? No because some traps are not for you to just escape.

 

[Enima]

How can you say Sanji was trapped when he wasn’t using his full strength then?? You operating on double standards??

We know Luffy wasn't using his full strength because...

1. He wasn't close to dying.
2. We know for sure that Luffy wasn't Using his full strength because Luffy has G4. Does Sanji have some type of trump card? Has he shown any so far? He hasn't and we don't have any proof that shows that he does. So he was using his full strength, he was nearly killed by Doflamingo but got saved by Law. So it was pretty clear Sanji was using his full strength.

Oh btw the same doffy that trapped lift was the beaten up doffy, with his insides ripped apart and his face bashed up up he still trapped him??

Yeah and Luffy was able to move his body In order to blow air into his arm to turn into G4. As far as I know Sanji wasn't able to move at all....

But he he growl out because of the strength his df give him so he’s strong.

I'm not sure what you're tryna say here.

How’d you know he was caught for a moment didn’t he go about rampaging and beating up everyone??

Because he was free after 1 page.

Since were talking about the war Marco who also got caught by a hidden ability is weak too innit??

Uh.... Marco got caught by what?

Well strong hasn’t told us about Bcage made especially for haki users so you’re just speculating. Hardest material in Op universe is Kairoseki. Don’t know if it’s festructible yet.

I'm not speculating. If you wanna keep the world's strongest man in a cage, then it's gotta be strong enough to tank his attacks. If there is a cage strong enough to keep Roger and Shiliew then It's no surprise there is a cage strong enough to contain Zoro.

Fact still remains fujitora was not serious against Zoro and he pressured Zoro.

But Doflamingo was dead serious against Sanji and Sanji was Doing great?. Fujitora was far more serious than Doflamingo was against Sanji and what do you mean Fujitora pressured Zoro? Of course he pressured Zoro, he's an Admiral. But getting pressured by an admiral is better than getting almost killed by a warlord.

Fujitora only did gravity on Zoro to deter him from attacking doffy.

Yeah, Fujitora was trying to deter Zoro from attacking Doflamingo by killing him. But Zoro escaped.

If he attacked Zoro to hurt then Zoro will be wrapped up in bandages right now.

How do you attack someone without the intention of hurting them? Especially when it's your enemy?

Admiral or not who trapped Marco at the war?? Oh a vice admira. A lesser ranked person. But he is stronger than him??

He didn't trap Marco using his own power. He trapped Marco using sea stone Handcuffs. So he's not stronger than Marco.

Why did he get trapped??

1. Marco's captain was dying, so he was distracted........ Sanji wasn't Distracted, he was fully focused on Fighting Doflamingo
2. He was Injured by Kizaru moments before (Kizaru managed to Injure him because he was distracted). It was basically an admiral+vice admiral vs Marco............ Doflamingo fought Sanji alone and Sanji wasn't damaged by anyone else except Doflamingo.
3. It was a sea stone cuff, not someone's own power. Sea stone is not part of someone's ability............ Sanji was caught by Doflamingo's ability.
4. It took an Admiral + vice admiral + a Sea stone cuff to even remotely damage Marco. Why would I call him weak............ Sanji was fighting Doflamingo only and Doffy wasn't using any Handcuffs.

Did he escape?? No because some traps are not for you to just escape.

He did come out of it completely fine even though he was fighting an Admiral + vice admiral.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

We know Luffy wasn't using his full strength because...

1. He wasn't close to dying.
2. We know for sure that Luffy wasn't Using his full strength because Luffy has G4. Does Sanji have some type of trump card? Has he shown any so far? He hasn't and we don't have any proof that shows that he does. So he was using his full strength, he was nearly killed by Doflamingo but got saved by Law. So it was pretty clear Sanji was using his full strength.

Yeah and Luffy was able to move his body In order to blow air into his arm to turn into G4. As far as I know Sanji wasn't able to move at all....


I'm not sure what you're tryna say here.


Because he was free after 1 page.


Uh.... Marco got caught by what?


I'm not speculating. If you wanna keep the world's strongest man in a cage, then it's gotta be strong enough to tank his attacks. If there is a cage strong enough to keep Roger and Shiliew then It's no surprise there is a cage strong enough to contain Zoro.


But Doflamingo was dead serious against Sanji and Sanji was Doing great?. Fujitora was far more serious than Doflamingo was against Sanji and what do you mean Fujitora pressured Zoro? Of course he pressured Zoro, he's an Admiral. But getting pressured by an admiral is better than getting almost killed by a warlord.


Yeah, Fujitora was trying to deter Zoro from attacking Doflamingo by killing him. But Zoro escaped.


How do you attack someone without the intention of hurting them? Especially when it's your enemy?


He didn't trap Marco using his own power. He trapped Marco using sea stone Handcuffs. So he's not stronger than Marco.

1. Marco's captain was dying, so he was distracted........ Sanji wasn't Distracted, he was fully focused on Fighting Doflamingo
2. He was Injured by Kizaru moments before (Kizaru managed to Injure him because he was distracted). It was basically an admiral+vice admiral vs Marco............ Doflamingo fought Sanji alone and Sanji wasn't damaged by anyone else except Doflamingo.
3. It was a sea stone cuff, not someone's own power. Sea stone is not part of someone's ability............ Sanji was caught by Doflamingo's ability.
4. It took an Admiral + vice admiral + a Sea stone cuff to even remotely damage Marco. Why would I call him weak............ Sanji was fighting Doflamingo only and Doffy wasn't using any Handcuffs.

He did come out of it completely fine even though he was fighting an Admiral + vice admiral.

Okay Sanji wasn’t close to dying either. He didn’t use hells memories, so he wasn’t fully trying. Hell’s memories is his strongest form so far so him not using it means he wasn’t using his full strength.
He was free but he was still controlled by doffy to attack people. So in a sense Jozu is the same caliber as viola and king riku then lol. Or was it Rebecca that got controlled.
Marco’s captain dying. Sanji had the crew to protect too so he was in a rush as well.
Well he was able to get the jump on Marco cos of his extra arms which Marco didn’t know about from the looks of it.
Kizaru wasn’t needed to damage him. The vice admiral coulda hurt Marco. Especially when he was restrained. Kizaru came into the picture after Marco was trapped. So I guess the vice admiral is stronger than Marco since he trapped kizaru by himself. Or wait Luffy ask got KOed by cc’s suffocating ability. Guess Luffy is deffo weaker than Gangsta Gastino then??
Point being anyone can trap anyone and do whatever they want with the person. GG/CC coulda killed Luffy when he trapped him but plot won’t alloe that obviously. So just know because Sanji got trapped and injured doesn’t mean he’s weak. Obviously Doflamingo is stronger but that confrontation doesn’t show sanji’s prowess at all.

PS: sea prism cuff acted as the restraints for Marco why doffys strings restrained doffy. Don’t know why o have to clarify this or why I need to but you seem to not know that there are different forms of restraints. :/
I’ll ask say again Fujitora didn’t want to fight the straw hats he was subject to the orders f above so he didn’t really attack Zoro. He pretty much partied zoros blow and added a gravity effect to it. If he went all out like he did with Sabo then Zoro will be mice meat(over exaggeration but he’ll lose ).

 

[Enima]

Okay Sanji wasn’t close to dying either.

His reaction and the fact that he got saved Imply otherwise.

He didn’t use hells memories, so he wasn’t fully trying.

He needs to move in order to use hell's memories and also, It's an extremely time consuming attacks. It might work against Wadatsumi but Doflamingo is too fast for that attack to even make a difference. Sanji couldn't move, that's the Important point.

Luffy was able to move. He could've used G4 If he wanted to...
Sanji couldn't move at all....

He was free but he was still controlled by doffy to attack people.

Nope, that never happened. Show me a panel If it did happen.....

Marco’s captain dying. Sanji had the crew to protect too so he was in a rush as well.

Marco was focusing on fighting Kizaru+Vice admiral and got Distracted When Whitebeard was Injured.

Sanji was focusing on fighting Doflamingo and never got distracted because none of his crew members were under any threat other than the guy he was fighting. There was no reason for him to be distracted.

Well he was able to get the jump on Marco cos of his extra arms which Marco didn’t know about from the looks of it.

He was able to tag marco because Marco was Distracted and was Injured during that time by Kizaru.

Kizaru wasn’t needed to damage him.

Yes he was. Marco was Injured and that gave the Vice admiral a perfect opportunity to handcuff him.

Kizaru came into the picture after Marco was trapped.

Nope, Kizaru Injured Marco before the Vice admiral even used the Handcuffs. Kizaru was able to Damage Marco since Marco was distracted and thus wasn't using his DF power.

Or wait Luffy ask got KOed by cc’s suffocating ability. Guess Luffy is deffo weaker than Gangsta Gastino then??

Nope, because Luffy was actually doing well against Ceaser before he got knocked out and after that he was fodderizing Ceaser before Monet saved him. Where is the part in which Sanji was doing well against Doflamingo? We have proof that shows Luffy is stronger than Ceaser. Luffy took some Ls but he won most of the time. Ls is all Sanji has at this point.

So just know because Sanji got trapped and injured doesn’t mean he’s weak. Obviously Doflamingo is stronger but that confrontation doesn’t show sanji’s prowess at all.

Doflamingo literally blocked an attack from Sanji using his Coat.

sea prism cuff acted as the restraints for Marco why doffys strings restrained doffy.

Sea prism stones weaken a DF user like Marco, Doffy's strings don't weaken anyone.

I’ll ask say again Fujitora didn’t want to fight the straw hats he was subject to the orders f above so he didn’t really attack Zoro. He pretty much partied zoros blow and added a gravity effect to it. If he went all out like he did with Sabo then Zoro will be mice meat(over exaggeration but he’ll lose ).

Same with Doflamingo. He wasn't serious against Sanji. If he had used any of his powerful attacks or his awakening Sanji would've been dead couple of seconds after he challenged Doffy.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

His reaction and the fact that he got saved Imply otherwise.


He needs to move in order to use hell's memories and also, It's an extremely time consuming attacks. It might work against Wadatsumi but Doflamingo is too fast for that attack to even make a difference. Sanji couldn't move, that's the Important point.

Luffy was able to move. He could've used G4 If he wanted to...
Sanji couldn't move at all....


Nope, that never happened. Show me a panel If it did happen.....


Marco was focusing on fighting Kizaru+Vice admiral and got Distracted When Whitebeard was Injured.

Sanji was focusing on fighting Doflamingo and never got distracted because none of his crew members were under any threat other than the guy he was fighting. There was no reason for him to be distracted.


He was able to tag marco because Marco was Distracted and was Injured during that time by Kizaru.


Yes he was. Marco was Injured and that gave the Vice admiral a perfect opportunity to handcuff him.


Nope, Kizaru Injured Marco before the Vice admiral even used the Handcuffs. Kizaru was able to Damage Marco since Marco was distracted and thus wasn't using his DF power.


Nope, because Luffy was actually doing well against Ceaser before he got knocked out and after that he was fodderizing Ceaser before Monet saved him. Where is the part in which Sanji was doing well against Doflamingo? We have proof that shows Luffy is stronger than Ceaser. Luffy took some Ls but he won most of the time. Ls is all Sanji has at this point.


Doflamingo literally blocked an attack from Sanji using his Coat.


Sea prism stones weaken a DF user like Marco, Doffy's strings don't weaken anyone.


Same with Doflamingo. He wasn't serious against Sanji. If he had used any of his powerful attacks or his awakening Sanji would've been dead couple of seconds after he challenged Doffy.

He got attacked before getting trapped, he literally tanked a hit from doffy, you think doffy was toying with him when he know he needs to get Cesar back or Kaido will murder him, he’d be very stupid to toy with a hinderance like that. He wasn’t distracted he was caught off guard by the trap doffy set. Me comparing CC knocking Luffy out is to make the point that if you don’t know what ability someone has you’ll probably get caught off guard. Sanji didn’t know he could get trapped. Luffy didn’t know Cesar could take away air. And they both fell for it. And I’ve already said it a given that doffy is stronger. But Luffy lost to a character he’s much stronger than, I’d rather lose to a much stronger opponent than someone I’m deffo stronger than, but hey Luffy came back to kick his ass, which has nout to do with my point.
Okay maybe Luffy could move cos doffy himself was weak?? Ever considered that?? Butt let’s go by the evidence we have.

Doflamingo when he trapped Jozu used him to attack crocodile and until a chapter or two later we didn’t see jozu free. But let’s assume he was free the next page innit.
Marco getting was him not being aware of the ability, he tanked kizarus hit and kept running, but the guy held him and tagged him. Marco did activate his ability to heal the damage but got tagged. Point still is he got tagged, and got damaged. But the seaprism cuff weakened him. So the strings restrained Sanji.
You say he blocked it with his coat as if a coat without haki can do that. Did he not block one of Luffy a attack like that too?? So that too??
My point has never been about strength. It’s always been about getting trapped.
Like Marco got trapped and an attack followed up, Sanji got trapped and doffy tried to attack him straight after, but he was saved. Jozu was not show to be caught off guard but he was controlled by doffys string. He attacked someone of common interest. And doffy was even riding him like a horse lol. Being trapped has nout to do with strength. If you think that then Luffy was weak and actually got lucky against Cesar.