One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Beagopa]

Don't go by what someone says, mangaka or not, go by what the manga does. Oda could say Zoro will be the hero of Wano arc but just as easily have Marco be the hero instead.

It'd explain why he had Luffy struggle against a weaker Big Mom commander and is having him go against a stronger commander. Likely to hype up the fight and suspense. but unless the Straw Hats get more allies, I can't see an all-out battle ending in their victory, even with Big Mom out of the picture.

I like this idea, having an arc focused on Zoro would be refreshing, along with seeing what he can truly be capable of. I miss seeing badass Zoro fights.

Why would you think G4 is strong enough to take down Big Mom, especially when it was barely enough to beat Doflamingo? If Doflamingo lasted as long as he did, there's no way Big Mom would go down from the Gear 4 that Luffy showed.

bad writing tbh. She should stay their enemy.

It wouldn’t be the first time Luffy made a “frenemy”. Crocodile, Buggy, Bob Clay, Robin, Chinjao etc. All enemies that have become friends or one time allies.

Luffy and company could potentially escape without beating her if she gets knocked out and they may never actually fight again. She could show up in a later arc and have a common enemy like the WG or B.B. pirates but be hesitant to offer assistance but then if she remembers Sanji’s delicious cooking she may be willing to offer a temporary truce to fight against a common enemy in exchange for more food.

I mean, I think it is unrealistic for Luffy to beat all of the Yonkos. There were seven Shichibukai who represented the strongest pirates that we knew of before the Yonkos were introduced. He obviously isn’t going to defeat all of them since several are allies now.

If Luffy beats BM, Kaido, and B.B. then that’d be kind of bad writing because that means no other characters in the NW are doing anything. Unless of course one of the Supernovas beats Shanks and becomes a new obstacle and contender for PK.

 

[kkck]

Currently underestimating? No. Underestimated yes. Think of it this way. King king gun levelled a whole city/town right?? Mig Mum landed a couple of hits on Bege, and that couldn’t fully incapacitate him, so who’s done more damage??
Yeah Mama has not use her abilities and shiz. On the other hand Luffy should be able to do damage with King Kong gun is my point. This damage might not be life threatening but she W should still cough up some blood imo.
The exchange at the wedding made me respect mama more, but looking at it now, if Luffy uses King Kong Gun in Katakuri, the attack should be bigger than the whole mass of katakuri, so this will land and probably knock him out. So I’m a sense Luffy has one more attack he can explore. So I’m not sleeping on Luffy being weaker. He’s simply not mastered his power. However he has the destructive power that is close to that of an emperor. Luffy levelled a city. Whitebeard changed the plane of a fortress. Some might disagree but if you actually fully looked at my initial post you see that I did say “KIng Kong Gun” Landing successively will do damage to big Mum. If not then I don’t know

Luffy leveling up a city is by no means a feat. People well weaker than luffy could easily accomplish that. Remember level 6 prisoners at ID? The people there are said to be capable of making a country disappear. Luffy doesn't even need gear 4 to make a country disappear, he could do that with gear 3. remember how he was about to destroy noah with gear 3? Luffy doesn't have destructive power close to an emperor. The notion is preposterous. Luffy's power barely approaches a yonko's top commanders like katakuri or cracker. Luffy won against doflamingo exclusively because of the insanely long battle of attrition against the guy which included substantial amounts of help. Luffy won against cracker only because of nami and a gag. Luffy has only landed a hit against katakuri because a gag allowed luffy to figure out katakuri's "weakness" that without observation haki he can't dodge crap. The notion that luffy compares to a yonko is at best laughable. And the notion will remain laughable until the manga provides evidence that luffy can:

1.- Defeat doflamingo comfortably without a speck of help. In this case that means doflamingo fighting no one to weaken him before luffy, no one to turn his insides into confetti. At worst, with a margin about as comfortable as zoro's victory over pica.
2.- Defeat cracker without help. As in, luffy can actually get past cracker's clone army on his own without anyone else making the clones catastrophically useless.
3.- Luffy can defeat katakuri with at least some margin without having to rely on katakuri's observation haki not being active to land hits.

Any less than that and luffy simply won't win against any yonko. And he is still far from being capable of winning against doflamingo in one go of gear 4, getting past cracker's army on his own and is certainly universes away from being capable of landing a single hit on COO katakuri.

As for king kong gun... I mean, why is that a factor at all? So what if luffy can make a yonko cough blood with it? Leveling a city? People with a fraction of luffy's strength have that capacity. Heck, I will go further. Not only is leveling a city not a feat, it's casual unintended collateral damage even for people weaker than current luffy. When akainu and aokiji fought an island, not a city, was permanently destroyed because the freaking weather was permanently changed. And they aren't even as strong as the yonko. Well, at least not as WB was. Remember the frozen tsunami mihawk cut when attacking luffy? That is how casually mihawk can destroy a city without even trying. remember WB fighting at marineford? People at entirely different islands were evacuated due to the tsunami risk. Look at big mom right now. Her rampage is so dangerous that even her children, all of whom are world renowned and feared pirates are scared. It's not a measly large city that is at risk, it's the entire collection of islands that make up her territory along with everyone in it that is at risk.

 

[M3J]

Yeah, it's a shame zoro's only hard fight was against pika.. More than that, I miss the days where we would see all strawhats get a fight. Since ennies lobby we have rarely seen the bulk of them fight. Brook has literally never defeated anyone important. At thriller bark he didn't defeat any of moria's crewmates, he defeated a bunch of zombies but none of the big ones. Then we get to sanbaody where he gets skyrocketed to another country. Then fishman island where all the enemies were so weak it didn't matter who defeated whom. Then punkhazard where brook had no big fights. Then dressrosa where he also had no big fights. And in the current arc he defeated a bunch of weak homies but has had no big fights. Similar scenarios apply to chopper, nami, robin to some extent or another. Even sanji has barely had fights. Franky finally got a decent fight against mr pink but nothing beyond that since then.

Wonder if spreading the crew out is a way to add more suspense and chapters. If all of the crew were on Dressrosa, Luffy and the others would have had more help, and it wouldn't take as long to reach the conclusion.

And saying Franky had nothing beyond his fight against Mr. Pink is ridiculous as it's just one arc later. But I agree about others, and I want to see Sanji and Zoro go all out. But tbh nothing will top Usopp vs. Sugar. Top fight of all time.

I wonder if by not showing Brook fighting, Oda is trying to keep his abilities under wrap until the right time. Fighting against a Yonkou crew would be the right time?

It wouldn’t be the first time Luffy made a “frenemy”. Crocodile, Buggy, Bob Clay, Robin, Chinjao etc. All enemies that have become friends or one time allies.

Luffy and company could potentially escape without beating her if she gets knocked out and they may never actually fight again. She could show up in a later arc and have a common enemy like the WG or B.B. pirates but be hesitant to offer assistance but then if she remembers Sanji’s delicious cooking she may be willing to offer a temporary truce to fight against a common enemy in exchange for more food.

I mean, I think it is unrealistic for Luffy to beat all of the Yonkos. There were seven Shichibukai who represented the strongest pirates that we knew of before the Yonkos were introduced. He obviously isn’t going to defeat all of them since several are allies now.

If Luffy beats BM, Kaido, and B.B. then that’d be kind of bad writing because that means no other characters in the NW are doing anything. Unless of course one of the Supernovas beats Shanks and becomes a new obstacle and contender for PK.

But how many of them were as dumb as Big Mom or absolutely hated the Straw Hats/Luffy, apart from Buggy? Hell, Buggy and Luffy worked together to get out of Impel Down, that's about it. Chinjao couldn't stay angry because Luffy fixed his head. Robin was never an enemy, and Bon Clay did like the crew before they discovered they were enemies. Who's to say Buggy won't let Luffy die if he had to?

Possible, but I doubt she'll be that rational towards a crew that destroyed her cake and her plan to amass more power. Just look at how much she hates Lola for running away from a politically advantageous marriage.

It's not unrealistic, tbh. He'll likely have tons of help against Kaidou and be able to beat Big Mom by himself, and then he'll be strong enough to take on Shanks and/or Blackbeard, if BB hasn't taken Shanks out already. But I see your point, especially when no other characters being useful despite the hype.

 

[kkck]

Wonder if spreading the crew out is a way to add more suspense and chapters. If all of the crew were on Dressrosa, Luffy and the others would have had more help, and it wouldn't take as long to reach the conclusion.

And saying Franky had nothing beyond his fight against Mr. Pink is ridiculous as it's just one arc later. But I agree about others, and I want to see Sanji and Zoro go all out. But tbh nothing will top Usopp vs. Sugar. Top fight of all time.

I wonder if by not showing Brook fighting, Oda is trying to keep his abilities under wrap until the right time. Fighting against a Yonkou crew would be the right time?

Well, it is at least a way to give characters a better chance to shine. Considering at least that luffy will have an increasing number of allies to fight the yonko...

The issue is that mr pink is basically the only enemy franky has had since ennies lobby. Sure, mr pink was one arc ago but if that is the only thing franky has ever done then it is by no means anywhere near enough. He fought maybe some zombies in thriller bark, then at sambody got sent flying, fought some fodder at fishman island and then in punk hazard he fought no one.

Oda isn't "hiding" anyone's abilities IMO. The issue here is that the plot requires the strawhats to gain vast amounts of allies and there are only so many fights you can fit in an arc. If every strawhats had an enemy every arc then plotwise we'd be 100 chapters before the current events.

 

[Beagopa]

Luffy leveling up a city is by no means a feat. People well weaker than luffy could easily accomplish that. Remember level 6 prisoners at ID? The people there are said to be capable of making a country disappear. Luffy doesn't even need gear 4 to make a country disappear, he could do that with gear 3. remember how he was about to destroy noah with gear 3? Luffy doesn't have destructive power close to an emperor. The notion is preposterous. Luffy's power barely approaches a yonko's top commanders like katakuri or cracker. Luffy won against doflamingo exclusively because of the insanely long battle of attrition against the guy which included substantial amounts of help. Luffy won against cracker only because of nami and a gag. Luffy has only landed a hit against katakuri because a gag allowed luffy to figure out katakuri's "weakness" that without observation haki he can't dodge crap. The notion that luffy compares to a yonko is at best laughable. And the notion will remain laughable until the manga provides evidence that luffy can:

1.- Defeat doflamingo comfortably without a speck of help. In this case that means doflamingo fighting no one to weaken him before luffy, no one to turn his insides into confetti. At worst, with a margin about as comfortable as zoro's victory over pica.
2.- Defeat cracker without help. As in, luffy can actually get past cracker's clone army on his own without anyone else making the clones catastrophically useless.
3.- Luffy can defeat katakuri with at least some margin without having to rely on katakuri's observation haki not being active to land hits.

Any less than that and luffy simply won't win against any yonko. And he is still far from being capable of winning against doflamingo in one go of gear 4, getting past cracker's army on his own and is certainly universes away from being capable of landing a single hit on COO katakuri.

As for king kong gun... I mean, why is that a factor at all? So what if luffy can make a yonko cough blood with it? Leveling a city? People with a fraction of luffy's strength have that capacity. Heck, I will go further. Not only is leveling a city not a feat, it's casual unintended collateral damage even for people weaker than current luffy. When akainu and aokiji fought an island, not a city, was permanently destroyed because the freaking weather was permanently changed. And they aren't even as strong as the yonko. Well, at least not as WB was. Remember the frozen tsunami mihawk cut when attacking luffy? That is how casually mihawk can destroy a city without even trying. remember WB fighting at marineford? People at entirely different islands were evacuated due to the tsunami risk. Look at big mom right now. Her rampage is so dangerous that even her children, all of whom are world renowned and feared pirates are scared. It's not a measly large city that is at risk, it's the entire collection of islands that make up her territory along with everyone in it that is at risk.

I agree with basically all of the above. It is silly to think that Luffy is Yonko level because he has a powerful attack that isn’t that powerful compared to what we’ve seen of Yonko level attacks.

WB shattered an island foretress. BM slashed through WCI. BB can make black holes big enough to swallow cities. He also made one half the size of an island.

Compared to that King Kong Gun doesn’t look that impressive. Plus, making a Yonko bleed isn’t the same as being able to beat them. Squard made WB bleed. Higuma the bandit made Shanks bleed. Regardless we don’t know if KKG COULD make BM bleed.

Luffy has landed G4 hits on Kata and he still kept fighting. He might even still be able to fight after a KKG which would mean BM definitely could.

 

[kkck]

Yes it is a feat, because it shows you have insane strength. But isn’t Kingkong Gun bigger that fear 3??? Don’t get me wrong I said the power is near a younkous power. If Katakuri survives a KKG then you can @me again on this topic. I could be overestimating it, I also could be underestimating it but it all depends on odas way of defeating Katakuri.
Okay Sanji couldn’t beat kalifa, but was he stronger?? Oh did the fight not end with a gag?? Sanji looking like a sex doll??(genuine question, was only watching anime at this point)
So people lose to otheir her people for convinient plot purpose (gags, plot armours etc )
Comparing water to a city with different structures with different density is not a good way of proving your point. Water/ice is not as dense as a whole city composing of multiple density of rocks.
Well Amanda doesn’t seem that scared.
They just fear her df power which literally feels on your fear. Sure she can obliterate them but if for a moment you waiver your soul essence is exposed for the taking so once again that isn’t showing anything. People feared pica but Zoro was makjnnfin of him..... it more about respect dude

Ok, let me rephrase that. In context it does not have even the semblance of a feat. Sure, doing so implies having insane strength. However it is not "insane" compared to what the genuinely strong people in the world are capable of. I mean, back in alabasta for instance zoro quite literally picked up a house or building and threw it at daz bones. Which das bones went to casually cut to pieces and mostly ignore. Does that require insane strength? Technically it does but by new world standards even worthless fodder is capable of that. Destroying a country is of course a feat of strength however people that are vastly outclassed by yonko commanders could do that.

As for the size... As far as I can tell gear 3 remains bigger.
https://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v79/c790/18.html
https://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v65/c645/10.html
https://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v65/c645/11.html

And even if KKG was bigger gear 3 remains more spammable and can potentially cover a larger area. Anything with gear 4 of course would hit substantially harder though. So G3 for AOF and G4 for damage I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2017 ---

Another beat to show how little of a feat it is to destroy a country:
https://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v65/c646/11.html

Sanji there pretty much covered that gigantic fishman in flames. How many of those does sanji need to get rid of a country? not too many at least.

 

[LaGOAT]

Zoro fodderized the shogun. His real fight will be against the commanders

 

[kkck]

One thing I am sort of disappointed about in the series at this point is rokushiki. Once haki was explained in detail, there was one thing that was abundantly clear to me: Rokushiki is a martial art meant to be used with haki. Well, to be specific I don't see any specific synergy between geppo/soru and haki but in turn the remaining forms seem tailor made to synergize with it. Take tekkai. It is a way to harden your body. Add haki to that and you'd have even greater resistance. Shigan looks like it uses haki even without haki to begin with. Now we have even seen long range versions of it. Obviously if you add any degree of hardening will result in a substantial upgrade. Rankyaku can presumably be enhanced by haki same as any sword slash. And then kami-e, a form which would ideally well with observation haki. Of course some variations would benefit from hardening as it allows extensive body manipulation however arguably the form strongest asset would be to use observation haki to dodge almost in a katakuri like fashion.

It's also a bit of a shame that luffy hasn't learned more rokushiki related stuff. Tekkai and kamie would do wonders for him. He already uses haki to manipulate his own elasticity. Adding tekkai on top of that and he would get a significant power boost. Add kamie and his rubberyness would be taken to a new level...

 

[M3J]

Well, it is at least a way to give characters a better chance to shine. Considering at least that luffy will have an increasing number of allies to fight the yonko...

The issue is that mr pink is basically the only enemy franky has had since ennies lobby. Sure, mr pink was one arc ago but if that is the only thing franky has ever done then it is by no means anywhere near enough. He fought maybe some zombies in thriller bark, then at sambody got sent flying, fought some fodder at fishman island and then in punk hazard he fought no one.

Oda isn't "hiding" anyone's abilities IMO. The issue here is that the plot requires the strawhats to gain vast amounts of allies and there are only so many fights you can fit in an arc. If every strawhats had an enemy every arc then plotwise we'd be 100 chapters before the current events.

But most of them will either have a short fight or be off-screened to speed things up.

I still think Oda's hiding every Straw Hat but Luffy's abilities. It explains why they haven't had a serious fight and Luffy's the only one who did. Any remotely serious fight that happened, apart from Franky's solely physical fight, ended in an easy enough victory for the Straw Hats. It's why Franky's only good fight was Pinky at Dressrosa after the timeskip. I don't think it's fair to count fights/stuff that happened after the crew got blown away from Saboady because the manga for a while became focused solely on Luffy.

Well, it still doesn't mean we can't see Sanji, Nami, and Chopper fight seriously, or Zoro, Franky, and Robin on Dressrosa.

 

[Beagopa]

One thing I am sort of disappointed about in the series at this point is rokushiki. Once haki was explained in detail, there was one thing that was abundantly clear to me: Rokushiki is a martial art meant to be used with haki. Well, to be specific I don't see any specific synergy between geppo/soru and haki but in turn the remaining forms seem tailor made to synergize with it. Take tekkai. It is a way to harden your body. Add haki to that and you'd have even greater resistance. Shigan looks like it uses haki even without haki to begin with. Now we have even seen long range versions of it. Obviously if you add any degree of hardening will result in a substantial upgrade. Rankyaku can presumably be enhanced by haki same as any sword slash. And then kami-e, a form which would ideally well with observation haki. Of course some variations would benefit from hardening as it allows extensive body manipulation however arguably the form strongest asset would be to use observation haki to dodge almost in a katakuri like fashion.

It's also a bit of a shame that luffy hasn't learned more rokushiki related stuff. Tekkai and kamie would do wonders for him. He already uses haki to manipulate his own elasticity. Adding tekkai on top of that and he would get a significant power boost. Add kamie and his rubberyness would be taken to a new level...

Well it would be odd if Luffy learned rokushiki, at this point I think only marines and WG have shown knowledge of it. It’s an advanced martial arts and he has no one to teach him it. I’m sure when CP0 gets in the spotlight it’ll be showcased real well.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2017 ---

But most of them will either have a short fight or be off-screened to speed things up.

I still think Oda's hiding every Straw Hat but Luffy's abilities. It explains why they haven't had a serious fight and Luffy's the only one who did. Any remotely serious fight that happened, apart from Franky's solely physical fight, ended in an easy enough victory for the Straw Hats. It's why Franky's only good fight was Pinky at Dressrosa after the timeskip. I don't think it's fair to count fights/stuff that happened after the crew got blown away from Saboady because the manga for a while became focused solely on Luffy.

Well, it still doesn't mean we can't see Sanji, Nami, and Chopper fight seriously, or Zoro, Franky, and Robin on Dressrosa.

By not showcasing the SH pirates Oda could give allies time to shine. I mean it was nice to see what Law and Barto could do. Same with Sai and Cavendish. Just too many characters for everyone to get a good 1v1 every arc. I mean the FI was meant to show how much the crew had grown by curb stomping everyone. Punk hazard didn’t have anyone really threatening aside from Vergo, CC is dangerous because of his fruit and not because he is a good fighter.

Really the Mingo arc and WCI have been the only times where story wise characters could get the spotlight and Oda chose to highlight the SH grand fleet over the crew.

 

[roggie]

One thing I am sort of disappointed about in the series at this point is rokushiki. Once haki was explained in detail, there was one thing that was abundantly clear to me: Rokushiki is a martial art meant to be used with haki. Well, to be specific I don't see any specific synergy between geppo/soru and haki but in turn the remaining forms seem tailor made to synergize with it. Take tekkai. It is a way to harden your body. Add haki to that and you'd have even greater resistance. Shigan looks like it uses haki even without haki to begin with. Now we have even seen long range versions of it. Obviously if you add any degree of hardening will result in a substantial upgrade. Rankyaku can presumably be enhanced by haki same as any sword slash. And then kami-e, a form which would ideally well with observation haki. Of course some variations would benefit from hardening as it allows extensive body manipulation however arguably the form strongest asset would be to use observation haki to dodge almost in a katakuri like fashion.

It's also a bit of a shame that luffy hasn't learned more rokushiki related stuff. Tekkai and kamie would do wonders for him. He already uses haki to manipulate his own elasticity. Adding tekkai on top of that and he would get a significant power boost. Add kamie and his rubberyness would be taken to a new level...

I didnt read again, but some of these powers couldn't be explained just by being haki? with a different name

 

[LaGOAT]

Guys u think cp0 is a powerful group? If u wanna power scale rob lucci he is should be around luffy lvl

 

[kkck]

Guys u think cp0 is a powerful group? If u wanna power scale rob lucci he is should be around luffy lvl

I would think they are certainly powerful. So far every time they have been mentioned it has been with fear from pirates. At the very least law and robin were concerned about them being at dressrosa even though nowadays robin should be able to handler an ordinary CP on her own. Heck, odds are she'd give the old CP a run for their money. It makes sense rob lucci would have grown signficantly stronger if he is in the new world however I wouldn't expect him to have kept up with luffy. He shouldn't remain a viable enemy for the strawhats. To add to that, we have seen stucci use a long distance shigan which barely required any movement from her. They definitely have some serious skills and important ties to the underworld.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2017 ---

Another thing I have been wondering about.... We have seen the vinsmoke sibblings have a set of abilities however that set of abilities does not seem devil fruit related. Reiju has poison, niji has electricity, ichiji seems to have explosions and yonji has... something. Those could be related to their armor but what if rather than those being inherent to their armor they are a natural ability which is suplemented by their armor? Basically, those abilities are the result of judge's genetic manipulation of the vinsmoke sibblings. And with that in mind, what if diable jambe is comparable to that? Basically sanji wasn't spared the genetic modifications judge made his children go through but rather in his case their development was slowed down and he is slowly awakening that power. And eventually they will fully awaken.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

There is another way to look at this. Pudding is the only one who saw him, doesn't that make her impressive?

Thing is the people who failed to notice were civilians. It's not like they're perceptive to begin with as they're not seasoned fighters. OP characters move at superhuman speeds and display superhuman powers.

Oven has no idea Sanji is there, there's no Intel that should have him entertain the idea, so why look for someone you don't know isn't there to begin with? More so, he's disguised as a chef. The chefs aren't viewed as threats, so why would Oven be looking out for a chef out of the blue?

1. Pound and Oven are roughly 5m in height and Sanji is 1.8. In approximate terms, that's the equivalent of someone being 3 times taller than Sanji. To top it off, being that Pound is in the air, he's at a height of probably 7m or 8m.
   
2. Look at how close Pound and Oven are to each other. In fact, Pound is coming from an upward direction, he's looking upwards at Pound. How do you notice something as tiny as Sanji when your gaze is upwards?

His speed feat here is nice in general, but in relation to the level of perception that any capable fighter in Totland have or the likes of Oven, it's really nothing significant. No one has issues with Sanji's speed:

1. Not Luffy
2. Not Katakuri
3. Not Daifuku
4. Not even Judge.

All that happened is, Oven got blind sided. This was just a surprise attack.

As far as he's concerned, his only opponent is Pound. Why would he be looking for anyone to attack him when he's not expecting or aware of any enemies? He's in a safe zone, everyone there fears him, his guard would be down to outsiders, he wouldn't be expecting any interference.

It's a nice feat in general, but this speed is nothing outstanding. By the time Oven is on the ground, Sanji had flown with Chiffon and evaded detection.

Spoiler

 

[Y u m a]

Thing is the people who failed to notice were civilians. It's not like they're perceptive to begin with as they're not seasoned fighters. OP characters move at superhuman speeds and display superhuman powers.

Oven has no idea Sanji is there, there's no Intel that should have him entertain the idea, so why look for someone you don't know isn't there to begin with? More so, he's disguised as a chef. The chefs aren't viewed as threats, so why would Oven be looking out for a chef out of the blue?

1. Pound and Oven are roughly 5m in height and Sanji is 1.8. In approximate terms, that's the equivalent of someone being 3 times taller than Sanji. To top it off, being that Pound is in the air, he's at a height of probably 7m or 8m.
   
2. Look at how close Pound and Oven are to each other. In fact, Pound is coming from an upward direction, he's looking upwards at Pound. How do you notice something as tiny as Sanji when your gaze is upwards?

His speed feat here is nice in general, but in relation to the level of perception that any capable fighter in Totland have or the likes of Oven, it's really nothing significant. No one has issues with Sanji's speed:

1. Not Luffy
2. Not Katakuri
3. Not Daifuku
4. Not even Judge.

All that happened is, Oven got blind sided. This was just a surprise attack.

As far as he's concerned, his only opponent is Pound. Why would he be looking for anyone to attack him when he's not expecting or aware of any enemies? He's in a safe zone, everyone there fears him, his guard would be down to outsiders, he wouldn't be expecting any interference.

It's a nice feat in general, but this speed is nothing outstanding. By the time Oven is on the ground, Sanji had flown with Chiffon and evaded detection.

Spoiler

Except that Oven not seeing him because of height difference is your interpretation. It could be true, but it also could be that Sanji was too fast for him. We probably won't know until Sanji moves with such a speed again and we see how strong people react to it.

What I am trying to say here is to not undermine Sanji's speed just because Pudding saw him, which is what your post implied, for Pudding could have special perceiving abilities due to her third eye. The page you posted shows that Sanji moved, hit Oven and then flew with Chiffon before she hit the ground. The way those panels were drawn emphasizes on Sanji's speed. Saying it is not outstanding is a bit unfair.

 

[kcd]

Except that Oven not seeing him because of height difference is your interpretation. It could be true, but it also could be that Sanji was too fast for him. We probably won't know until Sanji moves with such a speed again and we see how strong people react to it.

What I am trying to say here is to not undermine Sanji's speed just because Pudding saw him, which is what your post implied, for Pudding could have special perceiving abilities due to her third eye. The page you posted shows that Sanji moved, hit Oven and then flew with Chiffon before she hit the ground. The way those panels were drawn emphasizes on Sanji's speed. Saying it is not outstanding is a bit unfair.

The thing is, you don't even need sight to know someone is about to attack you, we've seen luffy close his eyes and literarily dodge attacks, the height was not the problem, he didn't just switch on his coo.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Except that Oven not seeing him because of height difference is your interpretation. It could be true, but it also could be that Sanji was too fast for him. We probably won't know until Sanji moves with such a speed again and we see how strong people react to it.

What I am trying to say here is to not undermine Sanji's speed just because Pudding saw him, which is what your post implied, for Pudding could have special perceiving abilities due to her third eye. The page you posted shows that Sanji moved, hit Oven and then flew with Chiffon before she hit the ground. The way those panels were drawn emphasizes on Sanji's speed. Saying it is not outstanding is a bit unfair.

He wasn't too fast. His fixation was on Pound who he was fighting.

He's only too fast for him if Oven was focused on him and couldn't react to him. That's not the case here. Pound was his focus and as far as Oven is concerned, there's no other enemy.

I'm not undermining his speed, he's fast, I'm just not making it out to be anything more than it is. No one has had issues with Sanji's speed especially when they knew where he was and he wasn't out of their radar. And as far as distractions go, I can provide panel upon panel upon panel about people getting hit when focused on something or someone. It's nothing fantastic.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

A speed feat is not that big a feat if the audience are just general civilians. It's like lifting a toddler up and to the toddler, it's the most incredible feat. of strength. It's not that big a feat. Sanji's speed isn't that great, otherwise, Judge and co. wouldn't have been able to keep up with him ad that has never been the case. Pudding saw him and Oven simply had no need to watch out for anyone other than Pound because that was the only threat as far as their Intel goes. If Oven knew for a second that Pudding was working with Sanji, she'd be dead.

 

[jaymizzo]

Come on guys, downplaying Sanji is getting a bit ridiculous now. He was extremely fast in that instance. Also, now Oven is suddenly weaker than Doflamingo simply because?

Just give the guy credit and move on. No need to patronise each other over someone, who like Luffy, will grow significantly in fights and as the story progresses.

 

[Y u m a]

He wasn't too fast. His fixation was on Pound who he was fighting.

He's only too fast for him if Oven was focused on him and couldn't react to him. That's not the case here. Pound was his focus and as far as Oven is concerned, there's no other enemy.

I'm not undermining his speed, he's fast, I'm just not making it out to be anything more than it is. No one has had issues with Sanji's speed especially when they knew where he was and he wasn't out of their radar. And as far as distractions go, I can provide panel upon panel upon panel about people getting hit when focused on something or someone. It's nothing fantastic.

We don't know what would have happened if Oven was expecting an attack (and here I am only talking about seeing Sanji, not sensing him with observation...). He may or may not be able to see Sanji. There is nothing that indicates or disprove either. That's why I said we need another instance of Sanji's speed to tell exactly how fast he is.

Though seeing how Sanji did his rescue while Oven's punch still had not connected, I doubt that Oven would have been able to react. Or at best he would have managed to block but barely.