One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Demonspeed]

What Sanji did was impressive considering that it's Sanji but it's not impressive in comparison to other fighters such as Luffy, Katakuri, Doflamingo etc. The impressiveness of an action is decided based on the person.

• If Luffy defeats Katakuri easily, then that's impressive. If a yonko did the same thing then it's normal.
• If Luffy defeats an army of 50,000 people it's normal. If usopp did the same thing it's impressive.

Was Sanji fast? Yes! And it was impressive considering it's Sanji. But he isn't that fast compared to other people. Sanji hit Oven while Oven was concentrating on fighting Pound. It would be different if Oven was concentrating on fighting Sanji. Doflamingo got hit by Luffy's red hawk, but that's not a feat for Luffy because Doflamingo wasn't focused and he didn't expect that attack.

• If Luffy defeats a sweet commander by himself or does something better than that, it can be considered impressive.
• If Big Mom can defeat a yonko by herself then it could be considered impressive.
• If Sanji gets into a fight and doesn't take the "L" then it could be considered Impressive. (I'm not joking)

What Sanji did was impressive because it was Sanji. If Luffy or Katakuri did the same thing it's not impressive, it's normal.

Why is Sanji compared to Luffy and Katakuri though? These two are much stronger than him. Luffy beating Oven wouldn't be impressive but Sanji beating him would be, Oven is implied to be among the strongest after Big Mom and the Sweet Commanders. With G4 Luffy is much faster than Sanji but Sanji is probably faster than G2 Luffy. Not sure what to think about Katakuri, he is at least faster than G2 Luffy but I am not sure he can rival G4 Luffy in speed. And it doesn't mean he would be able to do this.

 

[M3J]

Amusing how some people are trying so hard to make Sanji look bad or look like what he did was unimpressive when in fact, we've yet to see that sort of feat as far as I recall. Not only did Sanji kick Oven and make it back to his spot without being seen, but he managed to kick Oven quite a distance away. It shows a bit of Sanji's abilities, especially when only Pudding realizes what happened.

If this was Luffy, he'd be overhyped to the moon and back, and some members would be claiming he could take on Big Mom.

 

[Enima]

Why is Sanji compared to Luffy and Katakuri though? These two are much stronger than him. Luffy beating Oven wouldn't be impressive but Sanji beating him would be, Oven is implied to be among the strongest after Big Mom and the Sweet Commanders. With G4 Luffy is much faster than Sanji but Sanji is probably faster than G2 Luffy. Not sure what to think about Katakuri, he is at least faster than G2 Luffy but I am not sure he can rival G4 Luffy in speed. And it doesn't mean he would be able to do this.

I was just saying that Sanji's feat is impressive because it's Sanji but it's not impressive compared others. Many people seem to think that this is something special that only Sanji is capable of doing.

Pretty sure Luffy is faster than Sanji in gear 2. Luffy was able to avoid Katakuri for 40 minutes despite the fatigue from fighting Cracker (he pretty much fainted after using Gear 4 against Big Mom). Katakuri is well within the top 10 fastest characters because his fighting style depends on CoO and speed. So Luffy should be fast as hell if he can avoid Katakuri for 40 minutes despite the fatigue.

we've yet to see that sort of feat as far as I recall.

• Plenty of fighters have attacked their enemies while they were distracted, like how Sanji did with Oven. So it has been done before.
• Vanishing due to speed is not new either.
  Spoiler

  

If this was Luffy, he'd be overhyped to the moon and back, and some members would be claiming he could take on Big Mom.

Somebody's gonna say that Luffy can take on Big Mom because he was able to kick oven while Oven was distracted?

I don't think anybody would even care if Luffy did this, this is barely a feat for Luffy. Luffy is already fighting Katakuri equally, despite almost fainting from fatigue a while back. I'm pretty sure he can kick an opponent while he is distracted and take back the hostage.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Kind soul,
I must disagree with you. It was only due to Sanji's speed that no one saw him except for those who have been focused on him the whole arc. Mainly the 3eyed lunatic. He used speed and power that we have not seen him use before. Lets not over think it. That might have been sanji's best since fishman island.


Wow I just noticed that this was an huge argument. Are you guys serious. The argument that he was smaller and not being focused on is crazy. Your reaching. The chef needs a break let's just say he did great and focus on the GIANT SEAL ON A BALL PULLING THE CAKE. NOW THAT is far more intresting!

This isn't what happened.

All that happened, Oven and Pound were too absorbed in each other. You want to tell me that people who are about to punch each other at close range notice people standing barely over their knees? That's farcical.

It's not like Sanji confronted Oven openly and speed blitzed. He merely moved while Oven was not even looking at anyone but Pound, hell, he probably wasn't even looking at Chiffon and he's supposed to notice some midget that's going to attack from a blind spot?

Spoiler

It's like looking to your right at someone and being punched by someone from the left (back at the head), a blind spot and claiming that person behind you to be faster when the fact of the matter is they're not within field of vision.

Truly, it's astounding.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2017 ---

This is all people are getting amped about, the "soru" shade. Soru means nothing when it's not being used against an opponent. Without an opponent, it always looks fast.

The same way Soru will be drawn for Luffy, Sanji, Kizaru or any other character is the same way it'd be drawn for even Fodder. Even COby and Helmeppo are capable of using Soru.

Luffy isn't even using Soru, and he trashes Coby. When Sanji uses Soru whilst confronting Oven directly, and speed blitzes him, he'll get his due. No opponent he's confronted has had issues with his speed, not even Judge. So, i fail to see why Oven would if he were confronted directly by Sanji. Hell, forget that Pudding saw him.

At the wedding, where was this speed? To fodder, he might have looked blinding, to the ministers and competent fighters, nothing great.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

OKay man, we get it. What Sanji did wasn’t all that. It was cute because everyone can use it, and it’s the first time he’s using it.
Even though Daifuku got him because he didn’t use soru. I’ll just humour you that Sanji really slow.
As long as you understand that oven was dumb for not scanning the area after getting kicked then we can move on.
In school. I’m not expecting my mates to slap me around the head, but I look back to see who is guilty.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

As long as you understand that oven was dumb for not scanning the area after getting kicked then we can move on.

Lol, funny.

That means Sanji is also dumb for not scanning the Sunny at Punk Hazard and I guess his Observation is garbage too, lol.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

oven was dumb for not scanning the area after getting kicked then we can move on.

Doesn't require too to do the maths.

Oven knew he got hit by someone else. By the time he'd gotten up, the carriage was already on the move on its way to the port.

Just a bit of thinking, he was about to kill Chiffon, Pound jumped in to save her, therefore, the person who attacked him must also have had the same goal as Pound to save Chiffon. Take into context that Pound arrived at Cacao Island at 4pm and it's only around 6pm now, Oven had been beating the hell out of Pound for 2 hours and no one came to his aid. It all implies this mystery person's goal was save Chiffon as opposed to Pound.

Something else you probably missed. Chiffon was dropped to the floor when Oven proceeded to punch Pound. By the time he got up, Chiffon is no where to be seen implying she'd run off or someone had saved her (likely this mystery person). Sanji told the carriage to speed up and head to the port. Oven is clearly much smarter than you are comprehending. The carriage suddenly moving is what caught his attention, and attempt to escape, and with that, he set his eyes on the carriage and luckily, he spotted Chiffon.

It's clear now that the goal of this person is to get Chiffon on board the carriage and into the ship. Oven being smart has taken what this person was probably protecting, Chiffon, and he's secured her by his side. As long as he's by her side, whoever tried to save her will either reveal themselves or do nothing.

It would be stupid to go on a goose chase looking for someone who will easily defeat his men being that he/she is extremely speedy and likely a competent fighter. This would end up causing diversions, possibly making things worse. Hell, he already had a fleet coming over to Cacao Island. They can always go look for this person after the cake was shipped off, and as long as he had Chiffon with him (that thing called BAIT), that person would either stay whereby they could look for the person effectively after the ship sailed off as is the objective or the person would have boarded the ship already, but Chiffon would still be with Oven and there's really no issues, either way, things work in his favour, he can execute Chiffon and BIg Mom gets her cake.

You just didn't think far enough, awfully myopic, short-sighted and very underdeveloped foresight and poor understanding of the situation. Oven was smart for being calm and collected and he assessed the situation rather swiftly. A wild goose chase where there are crowds of people would have resulted easily in chaos, loss of man-power and a situation that spiralled out of control.

Think before you type, make use of context.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2017 ---

Oops I finally couldn’t hold back I guess
Ask oven that. He just got kicked in the face lol.

Again, you couldn't answer it because you lack the insight or aptitude to make sense of it.

1. Brulee is literally their main source of intelligence.
2. As far as she's told them, the SHs are on their way to Cacao Island.
3. They're not supposed to be in Cacao Island until 1am, and it's only 6pm now.
4. Pudding as far as they're concerned is not a traitor, they wouldn't suspect Sanji to be there.
5. There have been no sightings of the SHs outside of the Sunny.
6. No sightings of the SHs on any Islands bar Luffy who has Brulee on his side.
7. There's no way for any of the SHs to be at Cacao Island when Cacao Island is a day's journey away.
8. There's no reason to be looking out for Sanji or any other enemies because none of them could have reached Cacao Island without Brulee or Pudding's carpet, and Pudding is trusted.

Really, this Manga is far too complex for you it seems. There's absolutely no reason for Oven to be aware of any enemies until after the kick. And the concept of distraction is clearly not something you're acquainted with.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Really, this Manga is far too complex for you it seems. There's absolutely no reason for Oven to be aware of any enemies until after the kick. And the concept of distraction is clearly not something you're acquainted with

Not really, I went with your height idea. And if oh go to previous pages, I agreed that sanjis attack was a sneak attack. But the question you’ve failed to answer is why he didn’t look for the mystery person strong enough to kick him and save chiffon.
If I wanted to take something, and I got kicked and had to drop the thing. I’d wamna take care of the kicker first, as any smart person would think the kicker is an hinderance to me taking the think. Manga isn’t that complex. I just hate when people don’t understand me. I know my typing ain’t the best but Damn!!!
To carry on from the bold part, why the hell did he not increase his awareness?? His guard was still so dropped after that, that he got shot in the face. That shows poor awareness, aka CoO. Which I’m tired of saying now tbh. It’s either he’s not that proficient at it or he was ignorant. But being ignorant to a kick in the face seems really really stupid so explain this to me, since this manga was made for you to analyse.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2017 ---

You just didn't think far enough, awfully myopic, short-sighted and very underdeveloped foresight and poor understanding of the situation. Oven was smart for being calm and collected and he assessed the situation rather swiftly. A wild goose chase where there are crowds of people would have resulted easily in chaos, loss of man-power and a situation that spiralled out of control.

Calm and collected got him shot in the face
Last time I checked being calm means you can use your CoO right? So this would mean he would have his CoO active and waiting for this mystery man to attack again but alas the motherf*cker was shot in the face again.
Calm my ass lol

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I agreed that sanjis attack was a sneak attack. But the question you’ve failed to answer is why he didn’t look for the mystery person strong enough to kick him and save chiffon.
If I wanted to take something, and I got kicked and had to drop the thing. I’d wamna take care of the kicker first, as any smart person

Not at all smart, you clearly don't grasp the situation.

You do have brains enough to see that by the time Sanji had kicked him and taken Chiffon, the carriage was already moving to the port? It implies this person was trying to get Chiffon to the port. He was sensible enough to realise the person's aim was to save Chiffon and was likely in the carriage, and by finding Chiffon, he had control of the situation. The reason for that attack was to remain unseen, and that person obviously won't make an appearance unless forced to do so, and acquiring Chiffon was the smartest thing.

There are situations where doing nothing and waiting is smarter than expending energy and running riot, but it seems such things are beyond you. There's this thing called strategy.

Calm and collected got him shot in the face
Last time I checked being calm means you can use your CoO right?

Again, poor grasp of this Manga.

Calm and remaining collected d is required to use Observation, but not everyone has Observation Haki that's as powerful as Katakuri. No one thus far has as more foresight as his Observation. No matter how calm Oven is, there's only so much he'd perceive depending on how powerful his Haki was.

More so, Capone agreed to disembark, anyone would assume he was gong to co-operate since his wife is hostage and he's surrounded. Capone attacking was unexpected.

Also, Capone was so far away, getting hit has nothing to do with composure. It's not like Luffy is as calm and composed as Katakuri, yet he's dodged his attacks more than anyone else. Honestly, your arguments are lacking in substance it's awfully painful to reply to you.

Capone's ability makes things big or small. The bullet was clearly too small for Oven to dodge and he only caught sight of it at the last moment. He obviously wasn't expecting or aware that Capone could shoot from that distance.No one was aware of the shot until the moment it hit Oven.

It also wasn't Sanji that attacked him, maybe you're blind, it was Bege. Really, your though process is so crude and unrefined, you ought to take time before you type anything.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But he was being unreasonable to start with. Chiffon had a role in the cake completion and he’s stopping that.

Her role was to bake the cake. The rest of it really was for Sanji and Chiffon. Pudding and co. would only say that in order to keep her safe because they know the consequences. She was complicit in the attempt to kill Big Mom.

Once again I’ve only ever seen objects get bigger after leaving Capone’s proximity so you flopped there. The bullet if it was normal would should be easily blocked but given the impact, that was no normal bullet.

Sure I did. Not like he didn't do this back in Chapter 508 where he manipulated the size of his Cannon-ball and the enemy didn't notice it until it was right in their faces.

I believe I said he got shot in the face. Why would Sanji shoot him?? Use your brain man

Again, read.

So this would mean he would have his CoO active and waiting for this mystery man to attack again but alas the motherf*cker was shot in the face again.

You brought up Oven being shot in the face and involved Sanji in it when this was all to do with Capone. Maybe you ought to refine your English and express yourself a bit more coherently. Your sentence there is just all over the place. I'd suggest you take your own advice.

And as per, you lack context. No one was expecting Capone to shoot nor was there much indicating a cannon was fired until late. Like I said before, it's awfully painful responding to such dreary questions like these. It's like asking how to spell one's own name over and over again until adulthood. Read and gatther context, otherwise, you will fail to really understand anything.

 

[kcd]

@Pro Ban Corps
You've juiced enough milk, he acknowledged sanji moved a great distance and that sanji is extremely speedy.

It would be stupid to go on a goose chase looking for someone who will easily defeat his men being that he/she is extremely speedy and likely a competent fighter.

I know it's cherry picking, but for someone to not just be speedy, but speedy to the extreme is a great feat.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

@Pro Ban Corps
You've juiced enough milk, he acknowledged sanji moved a great distance and that sanji is extremely speedy.

I know it's cherry picking, but for someone to not just be speedy, but speedy to the extreme is a great feat.

Dude my issue is with Oven now lol and the way he’s trying to justify how stupid the guy was in the chapter.

 

[kcd]

Dude my issue is with Oven now lol and the way he’s trying to justify how stupid the guy was in the chapter.

Alright,
I was trying to get the argument back to where it started as it was devolving a bit.
OK, carry on.
It's been entertaining except the cursing part.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Her role was to bake the cake. The rest of it really was for Sanji and Chiffon. Pudding and co. would only say that in order to keep her safe because they know the consequences. She was complicit in the attempt to kill Big Mom.




Sure I did. Not like he didn't do this back in Chapter 508 where he manipulated the size of his Cannon-ball and the enemy didn't notice it until it was right in their faces.


Again, read.



You brought up Oven being shot in the face and involved Sanji in it when this was all to do with Capone. Maybe you ought to refine your English and express yourself a bit more coherently. Your sentence there is just all over the place. I'd suggest you take your own advice.

And as per, you lack context. No one was expecting Capone to shoot nor was there much indicating a cannon was fired until late. Like I said before, it's awfully painful responding to such dreary questions like these. It's like asking how to spell one's own name over and over again until adulthood. Read and gatther context, otherwise, you will fail to really understand anything.

Well except if oven is a pro at baking and he knows what role chiffon will be playing in the baking then I don’t see why he can just assume she’s not needed. She even said after getting knocked down. “I will finish this cake”


Last time I checked manga goes from right to left right, there was an ability proximity, which is what I’ve said over and over again. Things within proximity are small, and when they leave the range of his barrier they return to normal. So your panel just illustrated what I’ve been saying.
My English must be really bad then.


Let me explain that to you since you can’t understand
Yeah I said Oven will have his haki active in case Sanji attacks again. But his haki couldn’t detect a gun shot, and he got hit by an attack again. Only this time it was Bege and not Sanji.
I have to explain things to you like a child

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2017 ---

Alright,
I was trying to get the argument back to where it started as it was devolving a bit.
OK, carry on.
It's been entertaining except the cursing part.

Lol I was annoyed, because the picture was just pointless, just like a lot of evidence the guy shows/gives

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I know it's cherry picking, but for someone to not just be speedy, but speedy to the extreme is a great feat.

Anyone can do that. We've seen Coby move at great speeds. If Luffy hadn't punched him, we'd have been hailing Coby as some speed-star. That speed being used to confront an opponent, it's nothing.

It's like playing a video game on easy mode, everything looks great and your skills and whatnot look out of this world. In a realistic situation where you're competing against others and whatnot, it might be nothing impressive at all.

Sanji has all this speed, but against opponents, they have no problems with it just like Luffy had no issues with Coby's Soru.

I can post this the first half of this panel alone and state, wow Coby is superior to Luffy in speed. Take things into context, and one understands what's going on. It's nothing to do with Coby being superior. It's more to do with:

1. Luffy not expecting to fight.
2. Luffy not expecting his opponent to be capable of using Soro.
3. In essence, he was taking off-guard.

As soon as he understood who his opponent was and confronted him, all that flashy speed and Soru meant nothing. It's the same case with Oven and Sanji here. Oven is not even remotely aware, but I know you get the gist of it.

 

[kcd]

Lol I was annoyed, because the picture was just pointless, just like a lot of evidence the guy shows/gives

Lol, it's nothing to get worked up about, it's just two intelligent guys that sees things differently, disagreeing.
Not to spoil your argument, this is my further take on the chapter -

I'm thinking someone in bege's crew will die, everything has been one luck or the other but right now it has come down to strength.
If the cake knocks out big mom, it'll be similar to how sick WB was taken out during the war, taking out the head leaves the rest body shaky.
I don't think Pedro is the only loss they'll take, either Vito or sanji's sis will be the sacrifice, despite the few scare here and there, it's all been very easy for the strawhats.

Luffy is quite dangerous, his ability to tank hits is extraordinary, katakuri couldn't knock him out even when he was fighting in gear2 and was considerably weakened, this shows he can hold his own in gear2 against the likes of katakuri and then finally go gear4 when he wants to end it.
With luffy, zoro, sanji, jinbe with the likes of Franky, chopper, brook, ..., I think luffy's crew or ship is very strong, you'll have to be a yonko yourself or at least sweet commander level ( 3 together) to stand any chance of beating them, I'm finally seeing what silver saw.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well except if oven is a pro at baking and he knows what role chiffon will be playing in the baking then I don’t see why he can just assume she’s not needed. She even said after getting knocked down. “I will finish this cake”

The Cake is baked.

Yeah I said Oven will have his haki active in case Sanji attacks again. But his haki couldn’t detect a gun shot, and he got hit by an attack again. Only this time it was Bege and not Sanji.
I have to explain things to you like a child

Haki doesn't detect inanimate things, it only detects the movements of people or animals before they do so.

You're just incompetent to say the least.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

The Cake is baked.




Haki doesn't detect inanimate things, it only detects the movements of people or animals before they do so.

You're just incompetent to say the least.

Okay, but why was she still trying to get up to help “complete”?? She seemed so determined to help finish the cake. Also bake does not explicitly mean just the cake, it will obviously involve the decorations and other stuff.
Remember that axe Luffy stopped in FI from hitting shirahoshi, did it have intention or was the axe itself alive??
Genuine question btw. Don’t avoid this question by saying context or anything yeah.

 

[kcd]

Oven is not even remotely aware but I know you get the gist of it.

I do get you, but,
Right now, I'll just wait to see sanji do it again, this time when the opponent is aware, to guage what level it's at.
After that, I'll be quoting you to prove - his soro was on another level.

Well, if it turns out it's not as formidable as I think, then I'll be ...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Remember that axe Luffy stopped in FI from hitting shirahoshi, did it have intention or was the axe itself alive??

Just requires reading the chapter. He heard it coming. Everything isn't Haki.

Okay, but why was she still trying to get up to help “complete”?? She seemed so determined to help finish the cake. Also bake does not explicitly mean just the cake, it will obviously involve the decorations and other stuff.

Her role was to bake the cake, it's done. Even if she's going to add decorations, that's not really important. Sanji alone is skilled enough to do it with Pudding. All that really matters is the taste of the cake.

You think even if Chfffon was done, she'll just stay behind to get executed? She's not trying to get herself killed. Of course she's going to say she needs to accompany them to complete the cake. It's part of the plan in order to allow them to all escape.

I do get you, but,
Right now, I'll just wait to see sanji do it again, this time when the opponent is aware, to guage what level it's at.
After that, I'll be quoting you to prove - his soro was on another level.

Well, if it turns out it's not as formidable as I think, then I'll be ...

All good haha. I'm just being as objective as possible. I personally do not favour any characters over others or havve favourite character, I look at all characters as objectively as possible because bias over characters tends to compromise ability to be objective due to bias and favouritism. When we see him in a fight, we'll see for sure. If he starts speed-blitzing characters left right and centre, then that it is. However, I doubt that'd be the case. I'm far more inclined to believe he'll get a power up in Haki like will likely be the case for Luffy this arc. If he's so exceedingly fast, I'd be surprise as against, opponents, he's not shown an edge in speed.