One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Kayakuri got embarrassed by Luffy

Oi, Oi now, he let him win.
The most plot influenced fight and a draw isn't an embarrassment for Katakuri-sama.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Kayakuri got embarrassed by Luffy, who isn't close to Admiral/Yonko level.

You can spin it anyway you like lol

End of discussion

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2019 ---

You are correct. This isn't neurosurgery to figure out.

People go insane on these breaks tho. Start spouting straight nonsense.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2019 ---

Marco was a RHM and wasn't very effective against Admirals. And Marco was placed on the same level of the Yonko by the Gorosei who said he was one of the few who could defeat Blackbeard.

The difference between YC1 and a Yonko is vast... For proof, just reread Luffy getting destroyed by Kaido

I beg to differ. During the Marineford arc, Marco was taking on Kizaru as an equal both talking shit to each other until Marines having to use underhanded tactics to keep him at bay so I don't get where your "wasn't very effective against Admirals is coming from".

Even Ace, a less powerful YC was taking on Aokiji and looking good after his rescue until his bad matchup with Akainu.

If anything... matchups matter a lot in a duel. Hence why certain characters tend to do well against other characters above their level.
It's not a straight forward A defeats B, B wins against C, so A beats C.
Of course A could beat C and the reverse is also very possible. So one can only speculate until A and C actually face off.
That's how fights in One Piece works.

A very good example is the PH arc, Luffy did very badly against snow girl, whereas Zoro came out looking like a Don with little effort.
Meanwhile Luffy is superior to Zoro as much as power level is concerned.

A similar inference can be drawn with Smoker facing off with Ace (a YC) and lasting minutes. Another face off with Virgo, a subordinate of Mingo and he barely lasted a few minutes.

 

[King Moe]

Oi, Oi now, he let him win.
The most plot influenced fight and a draw isn't an embarrassment for Katakuri-sama.

Katakuri kinda let Luffy win as Brulee even call him out on it to which he smirks so feel it's tie with Katakuri a bit above Luffy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I beg to differ. During the Marineford arc, Marco was taking on Kizaru as an equal both talking shit to each other until Marines having to use underhanded tactics to keep him at bay so I don't get where your "wasn't very effective against Admirals is coming from".

Even Ace, a less powerful YC was taking on Aokiji and looking good after his rescue until his bad matchup with Akainu.

If anything... matchups matter a lot in a duel. Hence why certain characters tend to do well against other characters above their level.
It's not a straight forward A defeats B, B wins against C, so A beats C.
Of course A could beat C and the reverse is also very possible. So one can only speculate until A and C actually face off.
That's how fights in One Piece works.

A very good example is the PH arc, Luffy did very badly against snow girl, whereas Zoro came out looking like a Don with little effort.
Meanwhile Luffy is superior to Zoro as much as power level is concerned.

A similar inference can be drawn with Smoker facing off with Ace (a YC) and lasting minutes. Another face off with Virgo, a subordinate of Mingo and he barely lasted a few minutes.

All great examples. It doesnt change the fact that not a single Yonko Commander has ever seriously injured an Admiral Class character in One Piece.

0 instances

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2019 ---

Oi, Oi now, he let him win.
The most plot influenced fight and a draw isn't an embarrassment for Katakuri-sama.

Ahhh your one of THOSE people lol

You know me, I've always said Oda fucked up that fight by either making Luffy too weak or Katakuri too OP.

Luffy had no business winning(drawing) that fight and I think we can all agree with that.

That not the point I was trying to make. What I'm trying to say is that if Katakuri couldn't defeat Luffy... How can anyone think he is an Admira Class fighter. It's not like Katakuri was pulling his punches...

 

[M3J]

Yeah it's really not that simple, the power structure in OP has been explained quite well. You don't just up and go wage war on someone else because you have superior forces, both sides are working to eliminate each other discretely. There needs to be a balance or there will be chaos. Dispatching admirals to go after Yonkou crews would be the most impractical thing they can ever choose to do, same as a Yonkou sending their top commanders to fight the Marines. You're leaving yourself wide open to an attack from even fodder pirates.

WB alone was not phased by the presence of 3 Admirals and pretty much wrecked anyone who came to his way. The top commanders themselves were holding their own against the Admirals as well.

And how is taking out an admiral by drawing him out alone not discrete, at least if no one else sees it? The balance needs to exist between the Yonkou and the Marines, and shichibukai exist only to keep the balance even or in the Marines' favor. If someone like Big Mom managed to get an admiral by himself and took him out, then the Marines would get weaker. I don't believe I said dispatching admirals to go after the Yonkou because even Akainu by himself wouldn't be able to take out a Yonkou army, probably.

Who was holding their own against Akainu? And Whitebeard was unable to take down the admirals no matter what he did.

Don't forget "Yonko commander and right hand man of said Yonko". They are always the second strongest in any given Yonko crew. Not just any Yonko commander but a RHM.

I don't see why it wouldn't be plausible for any RHM to defeat an Admiral (with struggle of course).

If it was that easy, then the admirals wouldn't have been standing at the end of the Marineford War. And the damage that Aokiji and Akainu caused when they fought seems pretty hard for Katakuri to match, so far, and I highly doubt Kizaru is that much weaker than the other two.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

And how is taking out an admiral by drawing him out alone not discrete, at least if no one else sees it? The balance needs to exist between the Yonkou and the Marines, and shichibukai exist only to keep the balance even or in the Marines' favor. If someone like Big Mom managed to get an admiral by himself and took him out, then the Marines would get weaker. I don't believe I said dispatching admirals to go after the Yonkou because even Akainu by himself wouldn't be able to take out a Yonkou army, probably.

Who was holding their own against Akainu? And Whitebeard was unable to take down the admirals no matter what he did.


If it was that easy, then the admirals wouldn't have been standing at the end of the Marineford War. And the damage that Aokiji and Akainu caused when they fought seems pretty hard for Katakuri to match, so far, and I highly doubt Kizaru is that much weaker than the other two.

There was only one Yonko in the Marineford arc and only one Yonko RHM battling against three Admirals, 1 fleet Admiral and a legendary character (in Garp).
Let's face it; the WBP were pretty much outmatched in numbers. It's not like WB was facing a single Admiral throughout. The 3 Admirals were taking turns at him so how would he have the time to give significant damage.
See what happened later when Akainu felt he could take on a (very badly damaged) Yonko one on one. Or the reaction on his face when another (fresh) Yonko came on seeking to battle one on one.

There is always power in numbers and lets face it, the WBP were very much outmatched in the battle against the Marines. My argument from the very beginning has been that a Yonko commander RHM would match an Admiral one on one with a possibility of defeating said Admiral. I never said it'd be easy, rather, I always kept maintaining the fact that any victory of either opponent would come with very significant damage.


Also, you can't always relate environmental damage to ones fighting capability. That's just down to destructive ability which is usually down to the DF type.
Going by the story. Logias tend to cause the most damaging effect on the surrounding, next Paramecias and then Zoans. This is obvious due to the natural disasters Logias are usually based on plus the damage level increases exponentially if the DF is awakened.

For example; powerhouses like Shanks, Garp, Rayleigh, or Mihawk who lack DF abilities would be expected to cause less environmental destruction than their counterparts with DF abilities like Big Mom, WB, Akainu, Fujitora.
So basing on pure destructive ability is very misleading.

Just because the likes of BM, Akainu, Oven who can boil the ocean within seconds are more powerful than the PK, or Garp who can't. That's just absurd.

Defeating any given character is not by matching their destruction level but by overcoming and besting them in a duel.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2019 ---

All great examples. It doesnt change the fact that not a single Yonko Commander has ever seriously injured an Admiral Class character in One Piece.

0 instances

In return, give me any Admiral who has seriously injured a Yoko's RHM.

 

[Pirate Queen]

There was only one Yonko in the Marineford arc and only one Yonko RHM battling against three Admirals, 1 fleet Admiral and a legendary character (in Garp).
Let's face it; the WBP were pretty much outmatched in numbers. It's not like WB was facing a single Admiral throughout. The 3 Admirals were taking turns at him so how would he have the time to give significant damage.
See what happened later when Akainu felt he could take on a (very badly damaged) Yonko one on one. Or the reaction on his face when another (fresh) Yonko came on seeking to battle one on one.

There is always power in numbers and lets face it, the WBP were very much outmatched in the battle against the Marines. My argument from the very beginning has been that a Yonko commander RHM would match an Admiral one on one with a possibility of defeating said Admiral. I never said it'd be easy, rather, I always kept maintaining the fact that any victory of either opponent would come with very significant damage.


Also, you can't always relate environmental damage to ones fighting capability. That's just down to destructive ability which is usually down to the DF type.
Going by the story. Logias tend to cause the most damaging effect on the surrounding, next Paramecias and then Zoans. This is obvious due to the natural disasters Logias are usually based on plus the damage level increases exponentially if the DF is awakened.

For example; powerhouses like Shanks, Garp, Rayleigh, or Mihawk who lack DF abilities would be expected to cause less environmental destruction than their counterparts with DF abilities like Big Mom, WB, Akainu, Fujitora.
So basing on pure destructive ability is very misleading.

Just because the likes of BM, Akainu, Oven who can boil the ocean within seconds are more powerful than the PK, or Garp who can't. That's just absurd.

Defeating any given character is not by matching their destruction level but by overcoming and besting them in a duel.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2019 ---

There was only one Yonko in the Marineford arc and only one Yonko RHM battling against three Admirals, 1 fleet Admiral and a legendary character (in Garp).
Let's face it; the WBP were pretty much outmatched in numbers. It's not like WB was facing a single Admiral throughout. The 3 Admirals were taking turns at him so how would he have the time to give significant damage.
See what happened later when Akainu felt he could take on a (very badly damaged) Yonko one on one. Or the reaction on his face when another (fresh) Yonko came on seeking to battle one on one.

There is always power in numbers and lets face it, the WBP were very much outmatched in the battle against the Marines. My argument from the very beginning has been that a Yonko commander RHM would match an Admiral one on one with a possibility of defeating said Admiral. I never said it'd be easy, rather, I always kept maintaining the fact that any victory of either opponent would come with very significant damage.


Also, you can't always relate environmental damage to ones fighting capability. That's just down to destructive ability which is usually down to the DF type.
Going by the story. Logias tend to cause the most damaging effect on the surrounding, next Paramecias and then Zoans. This is obvious due to the natural disasters Logias are usually based on plus the damage level increases exponentially if the DF is awakened.

For example; powerhouses like Shanks, Garp, Rayleigh, or Mihawk who lack DF abilities would be expected to cause less environmental destruction than their counterparts with DF abilities like Big Mom, WB, Akainu, Fujitora.
So basing on pure destructive ability is very misleading.

Just because the likes of BM, Akainu, Oven who can boil the ocean within seconds are more powerful than the PK, or Garp who can't. That's just absurd.

Defeating any given character is not by matching their destruction level but by overcoming and besting them in a duel.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2019 ---

You dont get how arguements work.

YOU made a claim Katakuri could beat Kizaru)

now

YOU back it up, thats not my job

If I said "Luffy was holding back against Kaido and that's why he lost" I damn well better be able to back up that claim or I end up looking like a joke.

ex.

Me:Luffy only lost to Kaido because he was holding back

you: How can you know he was holding back, where's your proof

me: Where's the proof he's NOT holding back

Doesn't that sound ridiculous?

You make a claim, you provide evidence.

I don't need evidence to say Admiral and Yonko class fighters are at the upper echelon of combatants in the One Piece world. It's common knowledge. Katakuri lost to Luffy(who is not an Admiral class combatant)

I get the ABC arguement, but that is the only evidence around that we can turn to when you make claims like that

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Kayakuri got embarrassed by Luffy, who isn't close to Admiral/Yonko level.

You can spin it anyway you like lol

End of discussion

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2019 ---

You are correct. This isn't neurosurgery to figure out.

People go insane on these breaks tho. Start spouting straight nonsense.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2019 ---

Marco was a RHM and wasn't very effective against Admirals. And Marco was placed on the same level of the Yonko by the Gorosei who said he was one of the few who could defeat Blackbeard.

The difference between YC1 and a Yonko is vast... For proof, just reread Luffy getting destroyed by Kaido

What proof? Luffy might be YC level but not at the level of a Yonko's RHM (until Wano is over at least). The duel with Katakuri made that crystal.


And you were wrong, the Gorosei didn't single out Marco in taking down BB, they said:
"no human in history have ever eaten 2 DFs,
our only hope to stop his attacks would be the Yonko,
or we could call Marco the phoenix and the other remnants of WB crews"

The Gorosei made that statement in relation to WB's remaining crew members and not outside of that. At that point of the story there were a handful of characters stronger than BB and BB wasn't Yonko then, was he?

 

[Pirate Queen]

What proof? Luffy might be YC level but not at the level of a Yonko's RHM (until Wano is over at least). The duel with Katakuri made that crystal.


And you were wrong, the Gorosei didn't single out Marco in taking down BB, they said:
"no human in history have ever eaten 2 DFs,
our only hope to stop his attacks would be the Yonko,
or we could call Marco the phoenix and the other remnants of WB crews"

The Gorosei made that statement in relation to WB's remaining crew members and not outside of that. At that point of the story there were a handful of characters stronger than BB and BB wasn't Yonko then, was he?

While I stated corrected, it proves all the more Marco wasn't at the level of an Admiral. So thank you for proving yourself wrong?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

You dont get how arguements work.

YOU made a claim Katakuri could beat Kizaru)

now

YOU back it up, thats not my job

If I said "Luffy was holding back against Kaido and that's why he lost" I damn well better be able to back up that claim or I end up looking like a joke.

ex.

Me:Luffy only lost to Kaido because he was holding back

you: How can you know he was holding back, where's your proof

me: Where's the proof he's NOT holding back

Doesn't that sound ridiculous?

You make a claim, you provide evidence.

I don't need evidence to say Admiral and Yonko class fighters are at the upper echelon of combatants in the One Piece world. It's common knowledge. Katakuri lost to Luffy(who is not an Admiral class combatant)

I get the ABC arguement, but that is the only evidence around that we can turn to when you make claims like that

Fine. I'll humour you.

Firstly: Part of me backing up such claim is by accessing the strengths of both characters.
From what we've seen of concrete evidence:

Katakuri:
1) Future Observation Haki
2) Advanced CoA
3) CoC (What does this do other than lighting up armament hit exchange between 2 characters possessing it)
4) Bragging rights of never having lost a duel except once (cos of some Main Character plot armour BS)
5) Acknowledged by MC as a nearly invincible Superhuman and MC ran from him.
6) Amazing logia-like paramecia DF that complements FS
7) Has awakening
8) Renowned for being extremely reliable and being the backbone of the BMPs.
9) Mopped the floor with MC but lost against him.

Kizaru:
1) CoO (expected due to status)
2) Advanced CoA (expected due to status)
3) CoC (not expected due to status)
4) Bragging rights of possessing attacks at the speed of light (kicks, punches, lasers, you name it).
5) Acknowledged by MC (Admirals collectively) as powerful foes and people he ain't running from again.
6) Amazing Logia DF granting super speed
7) Has awakening (expected due to status).
8) Renowned for chasing and eliminating weaker pirates around Paradise and even during Marineford arc.
9) Mopped the floor with MC and never lost against him


Secondly: Most of Kizaru's feats lie during pre time skip where we have little Haki representation if at all and when Luffy was ridiculously weak compared to top tier characters.
On the other hand, all of Katakuri's feats lie post time skip when we have a lot of details and knowledge of Haki with a much stronger MC even compared to top tier characters


Thirdly: This is how I know it's possible that Katakuri could defeat Kizaru but what is expected is a win for Kizaru.

This is due to the common
knowledge that after Yonko, the next powerhouses are the Admirals, and then the YCs.

Finally: It's all mere speculation.
Here's me hoping for more battles in the coming chapters of OP.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Fine. I'll humour you.

Firstly: Part of me backing up such claim is by accessing the strengths of both characters.
From what we've seen of concrete evidence:

Katakuri:
1) Future Observation Haki
2) Advanced CoA
3) CoC (What does this do other than lighting up armament hit exchange between 2 characters possessing it)
4) Bragging rights of never having lost a duel except once (cos of some Main Character plot armour BS)
5) Acknowledged by MC as a nearly invincible Superhuman and MC ran from him.
6) Amazing logia-like paramecia DF that complements FS
7) Has awakening
8) Renowned for being extremely reliable and being the backbone of the BMPs.
9) Mopped the floor with MC but lost against him.

Kizaru:
1) CoO (expected due to status)
2) Advanced CoA (expected due to status)
3) CoC (not expected due to status)
4) Bragging rights of possessing attacks at the speed of light (kicks, punches, lasers, you name it).
5) Acknowledged by MC (Admirals collectively) as powerful foes and people he ain't running from again.
6) Amazing Logia DF granting super speed
7) Has awakening (expected due to status).
8) Renowned for chasing and eliminating weaker pirates around Paradise and even during Marineford arc.
9) Mopped the floor with MC and never lost against him


Secondly: Most of Kizaru's feats lie during pre time skip where we have little Haki representation if at all and when Luffy was ridiculously weak compared to top tier characters.
On the other hand, all of Katakuri's feats lie post time skip when we have a lot of details and knowledge of Haki with a much stronger MC even compared to top tier characters


Thirdly: This is how I know it's possible that Katakuri could defeat Kizaru but what is expected is a win for Kizaru.

This is due to the common
knowledge that after Yonko, the next powerhouses are the Admirals, and then the YCs.

Finally: It's all mere speculation.
Here's me hoping for more battles in the coming chapters of OP.

Jokingly, Katakuri has never lost a battle probably because Yonko dont regularly clash nor do Admirals actively seek out YC's to fight.

If Luffy only fought characters as strong as Alvida, he would have never lost either.

Katakuri's claim that he has never lost is as hollow as his claim that he never goes on his back because we dont know a damn thing about his past opponents.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Jokingly, Katakuri has never lost a battle probably because Yonko dont regularly clash nor do Admirals actively seek out YC's to fight.

If Luffy only fought characters as strong as Alvida, he would have never lost either.

Katakuri's claim that he has never lost is as hollow as his claim that he never goes on his back because we dont know a damn thing about his past opponents.

I've got 5 words for you...

Can you back that up?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Fine. I'll humour you.

Firstly: Part of me backing up such claim is by accessing the strengths of both characters.
From what we've seen of concrete evidence:

Katakuri:
1) Future Observation Haki
2) Advanced CoA
3) CoC (What does this do other than lighting up armament hit exchange between 2 characters possessing it)
4) Bragging rights of never having lost a duel except once (cos of some Main Character plot armour BS)
5) Acknowledged by MC as a nearly invincible Superhuman and MC ran from him.
6) Amazing logia-like paramecia DF that complements FS
7) Has awakening
8) Renowned for being extremely reliable and being the backbone of the BMPs.
9) Mopped the floor with MC but lost against him.

Kizaru:
1) CoO (expected due to status)
2) Advanced CoA (expected due to status)
3) CoC (not expected due to status)
4) Bragging rights of possessing attacks at the speed of light (kicks, punches, lasers, you name it).
5) Acknowledged by MC (Admirals collectively) as powerful foes and people he ain't running from again.
6) Amazing Logia DF granting super speed
7) Has awakening (expected due to status).
8) Renowned for chasing and eliminating weaker pirates around Paradise and even during Marineford arc.
9) Mopped the floor with MC and never lost against him


Secondly: Most of Kizaru's feats lie during pre time skip where we have little Haki representation if at all and when Luffy was ridiculously weak compared to top tier characters.
On the other hand, all of Katakuri's feats lie post time skip when we have a lot of details and knowledge of Haki with a much stronger MC even compared to top tier characters


Thirdly: This is how I know it's possible that Katakuri could defeat Kizaru but what is expected is a win for Kizaru.

This is due to the common
knowledge that after Yonko, the next powerhouses are the Admirals, and then the YCs.

Finally: It's all mere speculation.
Here's me hoping for more battles in the coming chapters of OP.

Very well put together comment. I can see how you would think Katakuri vs an Admiral would make sense.

Let's agree to disagree

 

[M3J]

There was only one Yonko in the Marineford arc and only one Yonko RHM battling against three Admirals, 1 fleet Admiral and a legendary character (in Garp).
Let's face it; the WBP were pretty much outmatched in numbers. It's not like WB was facing a single Admiral throughout. The 3 Admirals were taking turns at him so how would he have the time to give significant damage.
See what happened later when Akainu felt he could take on a (very badly damaged) Yonko one on one. Or the reaction on his face when another (fresh) Yonko came on seeking to battle one on one.

at least three division commanders were there, and we don't know who were the strongest Whitebeard pirates after Whitebeard himself. Jozu fought Aokiji, Marco fought Kizaru, and Whitebeard fought Akainu. Hell, even Vista fought Mihawk, and one can say Mihawk's probably on an extremely high level as the greatest swordsman. Garp didn't even join the fray until near the end.

He was considered the world's strongest man or something, and he had gura gura no mi that could have dealt significant damage. Akainu was able to burn off 1/4 of Whitebeard's face and kept tanking his blows, while Aokiji wasn't even able to freeze him, and Whitebeard didn't use his devil fruit on Aokiji. Akainu stopped, but he could have probably kept going if Shanks and Sengoku didn't stop the war.

There is always power in numbers and lets face it, the WBP were very much outmatched in the battle against the Marines. My argument from the very beginning has been that a Yonko commander RHM would match an Admiral one on one with a possibility of defeating said Admiral. I never said it'd be easy, rather, I always kept maintaining the fact that any victory of either opponent would come with very significant damage.

Yeah, and I'm saying an Emperor's commanders would most likely lose to an admiral, that there's probably no possibility at all. We do agree though that the admiral would likely take significant damage if/when he wins.

Also, you can't always relate environmental damage to ones fighting capability. That's just down to destructive ability which is usually down to the DF type.
Going by the story. Logias tend to cause the most damaging effect on the surrounding, next Paramecias and then Zoans. This is obvious due to the natural disasters Logias are usually based on plus the damage level increases exponentially if the DF is awakened.

For example; powerhouses like Shanks, Garp, Rayleigh, or Mihawk who lack DF abilities would be expected to cause less environmental destruction than their counterparts with DF abilities like Big Mom, WB, Akainu, Fujitora.
So basing on pure destructive ability is very misleading.

Just because the likes of BM, Akainu, Oven who can boil the ocean within seconds are more powerful than the PK, or Garp who can't. That's just absurd.

Defeating any given character is not by matching their destruction level but by overcoming and besting them in a duel.

One side of Punk Hazard was hot af while the other side was cold, or is, and it's been like that for months, if not around two years. That says a lot about the power that both have, not just the destructive ability.

 

[jaymizzo]

Kayakuri got embarrassed by Luffy, who isn't close to Admiral/Yonko level.

You can spin it anyway you like lol

End of discussion

Yes sure, Luffy getting beat down consistently until the minute he improves his CoO is revisionism right? That never happened in the manga simply because you disagree? Get a grip.

You've just strolled in making baseless statements and refuse to back them up, shifting responsibility simply because you know you can't back up a single claim you've made. Disagreeing is not a discussion, try and understand that.

You asked someone to prove something to you and they did, did you do the same when they asked you to? No, you simply said you don't need evidence and agree to disagree. Utter nonsense. Don't come here insulting this forum (this place can be ridiculous) or the posters. We might disagree but non of us are more ridiculous than you are.

Again, I will wait for you to prove any Haki feats that Kizaru has shown and any speed/combat feats. I. Will. Wait.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2019 ---

Very well put together comment. I can see how you would think Katakuri vs an Admiral would make sense.

Let's agree to disagree

Sure, then why would Kizaru beat Katakuri.

Back. Up. Your. Claim. Don't just cop out.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Very well put together comment. I can see how you would think Katakuri vs an Admiral would make sense.

Let's agree to disagree

You are a fun guy to argue with

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes sure, Luffy getting beat down consistently until the minute he improves his CoO is revisionism right? That never happened in the manga simply because you disagree? Get a grip.

You've just strolled in making baseless statements and refuse to back them up, shifting responsibility simply because you know you can't back up a single claim you've made. Disagreeing is not a discussion, try and understand that.

You asked someone to prove something to you and they did, did you do the same when they asked you to? No, you simply said you don't need evidence and agree to disagree. Utter nonsense. Don't come here insulting this forum (this place can be ridiculous) or the posters. We might disagree but non of us are more ridiculous than you are.

Again, I will wait for you to prove any Haki feats that Kizaru has shown and any speed/combat feats. I. Will. Wait.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2019 ---

Sure, then why would Kizaru beat Katakuri.

Back. Up. Your. Claim. Don't just cop out.

Hey, don't get so worked up lol

I certainly don't feel the question was answered correctly, but me and Ains-san have been debating for several days now and I respect he has a different opinion than my own.

I don't have to prove Kizaru can beat Katakuri. I made no such claims. The burden of proof is on the person who wrote the original comment.



Me and @AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA can mutually end a debate. Your comments are far weaker than his. Your not even worth debating at this point.

I did enough in my arguement to prove my points I felt and Ains-san certainly did as well.

Not every time a debate stops is it considered "coping out"

If you didnt realize we were going in circles at this point, you just as bad as a commenter than I originally thought.

Go ahead an respond , but don't expect me to reply.

On to the next debate!

(I had fun @AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA, your fun to debate as well)

 

[SupremeMod]

Really don't care what the current conversation is but after re-watching old episodes it seems like Mihawk really doesn't want any part of Shanks.

Ok ok let me scroll up and see what's happening...

Katakuri vs "random admiral"

Admiral has to take the fight, but just depends how Oda wants to write the story.

I thought it was generally accepted that Yonko = Admiral? Of course exceptions here and there but GENERALLY.

Using WB as a base of Yonko power is a mistake in my opinion. He was the strongest person in the World. Don't think the rest compare to him.

Excuse me, my biscuits are ready. lol

 

[jaymizzo]

Hey, don't get so worked up lol

I certainly don't feel the question was answered correctly, but me and Ains-san have been debating for several days now and I respect he has a different opinion than my own.

I don't have to prove Kizaru can beat Katakuri. I made no such claims. The burden of proof is on the person who wrote the original comment.

Spoiler: Sure

I disagree 100% that Katakuri could beat Admiral Kizaru.

But the burden of proof is not on you. Disagreeing is simply enough. Someone had to prove that Katakuri can beat Kizaru but you don't have to prove that Kizaru can beat Katakuri. You can cling onto semantics to claim you didn't actually say the former.

Me and @AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA can mutually end a debate.

You didn't but ok.

Your comments are far weaker than his. Your not even worth debating at this point.

Because I understand how a debate/discussion works. I'm not going to humour you like @AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA did. You either back up your claim or accept that you made a baseless statement.

I did enough in my arguement to prove my points I felt and Ains-san certainly did as well.

What point was it you're proving? You haven't given a reason that is backed up by the manga. Once again, simply disagreeing is not a discussion or a debate.

If you didnt realize we were going in circles at this point, you just as bad as a commenter than I originally thought.

Your view of me doesn't really change the fact that you are yet to back up any claim you've made, while @AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA has.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Really don't care what the current conversation is but after re-watching old episodes it seems like Mihawk really doesn't want any part of Shanks.

Ok ok let me scroll up and see what's happening...

Katakuri vs "random admiral"

Admiral has to take the fight, but just depends how Oda wants to write the story.

I thought it was generally accepted that Yonko = Admiral? Of course exceptions here and there but GENERALLY.

Using WB as a base of Yonko power is a mistake in my opinion. He was the strongest person in the World. Don't think the rest compare to him.

Excuse me, my biscuits are ready. lol

He was so old and sick that he had grown weak (although still strong in our eyes). Weak enough to be at the level of other Yonko. Hence why Shanks didn't mind a clash with the old man.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2019 ---

Really don't care what the current conversation is but after re-watching old episodes it seems like Mihawk really doesn't want any part of Shanks.

Ok ok let me scroll up and see what's happening...

Katakuri vs "random admiral"

Admiral has to take the fight, but just depends how Oda wants to write the story.

I thought it was generally accepted that Yonko = Admiral? Of course exceptions here and there but GENERALLY.

Using WB as a base of Yonko power is a mistake in my opinion. He was the strongest person in the World. Don't think the rest compare to him.

Excuse me, my biscuits are ready. lol

Evidently he was the WSM until the battle at Marineford. There were many feats he pulled back then but I fill with what we've seen of other Yonko, they could've done better.

WB was so sick he new MF would be his grave. The rest compare to him in every way so long as we aren't talking prime WB and may be better given his health status.

I believe Yonko > Fleet Admiral and Admiral alike.