One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

...come on, lol. Zoro couldn't cut it, nobody there could, if they could, then they would have tried. I know this debate you two are having has been going on awhile, but you don't have to go this far. Not even the admiral could break the bird cage, it's not shame to Zoro that he couldn't.

Well actually Fujitora could have with his Gravity. The reason he didn't is due to not laying harm to him by Government protocols. That's why he didn't do much in the arc when Doffy and his crew were running amok. Its one of the reasons he want the Shikibukai Order to be destroy because of this.

 

[nik87]

...come on, lol. Zoro couldn't cut it, nobody there could, if they could, then they would have tried. I know this debate you two are having has been going on awhile, but you don't have to go this far. Not even the admiral could break the bird cage, it's not shame to Zoro that he couldn't.

It's directly shown in the manga that no one ever tried cutting the Birdcage, not even Fujitora himself. It's an obvious case of plot armor. Doffy's strings arent indestructible so claiming that Zoro and Fujitora werent able to cut them makes 0 sense. Birdcage had a plot armor because it had a purpose, not even the strongest character in OP universe would have cut/broken through it, doesnt mean that they are not able to beat Doflamingo because they couldnt deal with Plotcage.
Fujitora didnt want to move directly against Doflamingo himself but saving innocent citizens from the birdcage and destroying birdcage was totally doable, IF the plot armor wasnt in the way.
The very fact that Zoro never tried cutting it shows that the birdcage had plot protection. Do you guys need an explanation for such obvious things?

 

[thedude]

It's directly shown in the manga that no one ever tried cutting the Birdcage, not even Fujitora himself. It's an obvious case of plot armor. Doffy's strings arent indestructible so claiming that Zoro and Fujitora werent able to cut them makes 0 sense. Birdcage had a plot armor because it had a purpose, not even the strongest character in OP universe would have cut/broken through it, doesnt mean that they are not able to beat Doflamingo because they couldnt deal with Plotcage.
Fujitora didnt want to move directly against Doflamingo himself but saving innocent citizens from the birdcage and destroying birdcage was totally doable, IF the plot armor wasnt in the way.
The very fact that Zoro never tried cutting it shows that the birdcage had plot protection. Do you guys need an explanation for such obvious things?

I'm sorry, no, this argument is bonkers. You are saying they could have cut it but didn't try, letting the string destroy the country, putting everyones lives in danger. "hey, lets use this sword to stop the birdcage. Gosh, I wish something could cut this". This is flying off the rails...

Fujitora's meteor was cut by the birdcage. A freaking meteor. There is no shame in not being able to cut that.

 

[nik87]

I'm sorry, no, this argument is bonkers. You are saying they could have cut it but didn't try, letting the string destroy the country, putting everyones lives in danger. "hey, lets use this sword to stop the birdcage. Gosh, I wish something could cut this". This is flying off the rails...

And you are buying the argument that a freaking Admiral couldnt cut strings? Sorry, I am not.

 

[thedude]

And you are buying the argument that a freaking Admiral couldnt cut strings? Sorry, I am not.

If he could, he would. All we have to go by is the manga. In the manga, they didn't even try to cut them, and since they all had swords, either everyone was insanely dumb, or they knew they couldn't cut it. I'm going with the second as it's the most not insane answer. Again, the string wasn't damaged at all by a freaking meteor which did a lot of damage to the earth it hit. It's not a slight to Zoro or Fujitara, they didn't cut it, so it couldn't be cut.

 

[McNuss]

I never said it wasn't a powerup, just not explosive or a significant powerup/growth. I mean, he went from being useless against Aokiji to learning Gear 2 and 3 in just few days or weeks, which helped him actually stand some sort of a chance against Lucci. Best way to have gauged his improvement was to see how he fought Kaidou, and it resulted in him being one-shot.

Yeah, I know, actually I wanted to reinforce you
However I don't think vs Kaido was a good way too measure his improvement. It's like letting an amateur <insert any sport> try his best against an actual professional. No matter how much the Amateur has improved within the past weeks, it will never be enough to catch up with the professional.

If we want to see how much Luffy improved with his CoO, then the best case scenario would be an opponent that's similiar to Katakuri.
Or in other words, improved CoO was nowhere near enough to defeat Kaido, but it might be be enough to give him the edge against someone like Katakuri. By Manga logic, Luffy should now be able to use improved CoO confidently, which he clearly couldn't after just learning it.

If he could, he would. All we have to go by is the manga. In the manga, they didn't even try to cut them, and since they all had swords, either everyone was insanely dumb, or they knew they couldn't cut it. I'm going with the second as it's the most not insane answer. Again, the string wasn't damaged at all by a freaking meteor which did a lot of damage to the earth it hit. It's not a slight to Zoro or Fujitara, they didn't cut it, so it couldn't be cut.

You are wrong here. Fujitora was playing a gamble in Dressrosa. He gambled with the citizens lifes in order to prove that the Shishibukai system should be abolished. If he wanted to, he could have stripped Doflamingo from his title and defeat him himself. Admirals are allowed to do that, he just did that with Law.

Fujitora never showed his true strenght in Dressrosa, not even vs Sabo, Sabo even comments that. That's why currently, he looks like the weakest Admiral, but that is mostly because we have seen the preskip trio vs the Whitebeard Pirates.

The impression that Fujitora is a saint is wrong, Fujitora is radical Extremist.

 

[thedude]

Yeah, I know, actually I wanted to reinforce you
However I don't think vs Kaido was a good way too measure his improvement. It's like letting an amateur <insert any sport> try his best against an actual professional. No matter how much the Amateur has improved within the past weeks, it will never be enough to catch up with the professional.

If we want to see how much Luffy improved with his CoO, then the best case scenario would be an opponent that's similiar to Katakuri.
Or in other words, improved CoO was nowhere near enough to defeat Kaido, but it might be be enough to give him the edge against someone like Katakuri. By Manga logic, Luffy should now be able to use improved CoO confidently, which he clearly couldn't after just learning it.


You are wrong here. Fujitora was playing a gamble in Dressrosa. He gambled with the citizens lifes in order to prove that the Shishibukai system should be abolished. If he wanted to, he could have stripped Doflamingo from his title and defeat him himself. Admirals are allowed to do that, he just did that with Law.

Fujitora never showed his true strenght in Dressrosa, not even vs Sabo, Sabo even comments that. That's why currently, he looks like the weakest Admiral, but that is mostly because we have seen the preskip trio vs the Whitebeard Pirates.

The impression that Fujitora is a saint is wrong, Fujitora is radical Extremist.

Lol, i'm sorry, but "the swordsmen, including marines all decided not to try cutting" is the silliest take, and I'm surprised that so many are buying into it.

Do better everyone, you don't have to try this hard when the most obvious answer is the one supported - the strings are very hard, and they couldn't be cut through.

 

[McNuss]

Lol, i'm sorry, but "the swordsmen, including marines all decided not to try cutting" is the silliest take, and I'm surprised that so many are buying into it.

Do better everyone, you don't have to try this hard when the most obvious answer is the one supported - the strings are very hard, and they couldn't be cut through.

But Fujitora never intended the Birdcage to be cut, he needed it. He was stalling so Luffy could win, because had the Marines been the heroes, his plans wouldn't have worked. Everything would have been fine then - Evil Warlord, no problem the marines can take care of him. So no need to abolish the system as the marines can keep the Shishibukai in check.

 

[M3J]

Yeah, I know, actually I wanted to reinforce you
However I don't think vs Kaido was a good way too measure his improvement. It's like letting an amateur <insert any sport> try his best against an actual professional. No matter how much the Amateur has improved within the past weeks, it will never be enough to catch up with the professional.

If we want to see how much Luffy improved with his CoO, then the best case scenario would be an opponent that's similiar to Katakuri.
Or in other words, improved CoO was nowhere near enough to defeat Kaido, but it might be be enough to give him the edge against someone like Katakuri. By Manga logic, Luffy should now be able to use improved CoO confidently, which he clearly couldn't after just learning it.

oh okay.

It is a good way to see where he lacks, and how useful his "improvement" was, which is not useful at all against the likes of Kaidou. How would CoO help Luffy if he can't hurt Kaidou? It's like the reverse version of SSJ Muscle Trunks vs. Cell, where despite his power he lost because he didn't have the speed to hit Cell. Luffy might have the speed to hit Kaidou and possibly dodge him, but it's all for naught if he can't deal damage.

 

[AlphaMale]

I saw how in recent pages people were talking about how fujitora and zoro didn't cut the bird cage.
Isn't it already clear that they intentionally were made to just hold the cage so that Luffy could defeat doflamingo heroically?
It was just another cliche plot where the main hero was anticipated to win the fight. If we are talking about common sense, zoro and other fighters would just gang up on doflamingo and beat him there. Doflamingo was already fatiqued a lot anyway.

 

[Fox666]

Fujitora himself acted as if he couldn't cut the Bird Cage. And would it be strange? We have seen abilities that appear to be impossible to surpass with just muscles. And even if it the Bird Cage could be cut, maybe it would take someone many times stronger than Doflamingo to do it, like Kaido.

 

[Aliocha]

Even law did not cut the doflamingo strings with his ability.

Even if he wanted to, I'm not sure if Zoro could

 

[kalmier]

Fujitora didnt want to move directly against Doflamingo himself but saving innocent citizens from the birdcage and destroying birdcage was totally doable, IF the plot armor wasnt in the way.
The very fact that Zoro never tried cutting it shows that the birdcage had plot protection. Do you guys need an explanation for such obvious things?

Now that's what I call plot armor. Birdcage for Pirate King <3

 

[afromarco005]

Akainu with plot protection would probably be strong enough to divide by 0

Underrated comment. This is hilarious! thank you @Lexusflame

 

[Core D. Roy]

Sanji included as he be damned to be push around by Zoro . Knowing Oda he always put them as rivals for life on the crew. Roger Pirates already done that, but do agree and few crews will have that as well than just the strawhats. I think Kidd Pirates will be at Yonko lvl if Kidd and Killer are destined rivals for the two and can see Law and perhaps BlackBeard crew having that too.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2019 ---

or since Luffy is now know as the 'Fifth Yonko', he is out of Monster Trio and now its Sanji, Zoro, and Jimbei in the group and as his Yonko Commanders due to being the top strongest around.

Actually, I dig that. Gives Luffy all the pokemon starter types. And yes I'm counting Zoro as grass because mosshead.

 

[King Moe]

So Rayleigh humiliated Luffy in Gear 4 in the anime?

Talking about Snake Man vs Katakuri. Why that caught your attention? Technical that's filler with Rayleigh, but canon filler since Oda did say he can't add as much in his story at times. Make sense Rayleigh can get around G4. He is former 'Dark King' of Roger Pirates lol.

 

[hokageji]

I don't think devil fruit is always limited by stamina, it just depends. Law's devil fruit is limited by his stamina, but Luffy's doesn't seem to be, unless he uses the Gears (or used Gear 2 and 3 given he has no drawback to them now).

CoO also seems to affect stamina as well. But again, how will he be able to hurt Big Mom and Kaidou if he lacks the strength to deal damage?

Since every DF is unique, its affect on the users body is unique too. In Law's case, it could be either that Law is physically weaker or the way he uses his techniques requires too much stamina. Law being physically weak isnt surprising since he almost died as a kid with a disease.

Damaging BM or Kaido is a much larger question that probably deserves its own thread. If you ask me, i'd say all Yonkous have attained the highest form of the 3 hakis possible. BM has CoO always activated and hence can defend herself even in her sleep. Even WB showed us that. Her being an iron balloon could have to do with her natural body or enhanced CoA but the fact that she was so strong skinned even as a 5 year old means it could be physical.

 

[nik87]

I just thought about something.
Nami's rain defeated the hardness of Cracker's biscuits.
Since threads' weakness is fire all that was needed in Dressrosa was Kinemon's Foxfire style to destroy the birdcage easily.
No fire being used and all the swordsmen not thinking of cutting it supports my belief that it was indeed a Plotcage.

 

[hokageji]

I thought he could modify the material of his threads too... Didnt he have a fireset thread or a whip or something??? Anyways, if he could modify the threads, he could've had a fire-resistant thread, which is actually a thing

 

[nik87]

One minor detail i just realized about Katakuri vs Luffy's Snakeman. I always thought that Katakuri just stopped using future sight at the end of their battle but Snakeman was rather too fast for future sight to be used effectively.

Somehow Oda didnt manage to make that crystal clear. We know that Katakuri sees the future but that the same future changes from the point of his intervention.

I'm guessing that's why Katakuri stopped using it all the time in the end, because it wasnt that effective and required additional concentration to follow that speed.

We can assume that high speed is effective counter for future sight ability.
Depending on Kaido's speed, even if Luffy used future sight he would still get knocked out possibly if he is not fast enough to dodge Divine Thunder and in that scene Kaido looked extremely fast.