One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Also using gags huh?

Simple facts, Moe-kun.

So keep overhyping a 'overrated' character the more you denied his flaws as let see how Oda work on that each time you try to denied Zoro is 'perfect' when he isn't XD.

The most overrated character is the son of top 5 Judge himself, Win-smoke Wankji and there are plenty of people agreeing with that, in case you didn't notice, last 5 pages of discussion here.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

I said the fact that the suit makes him invisible makes his achievement against Page One accredited to the suit, not his fighting prowess.

Which is just nonesense given that Chopper or any other weakling wouldn't be able to do the same. The credit for the win goes to SANJI WITH THE RS.

Even with the invisibility, sanji's speed and the acceleration device of the suit P1 was able to notice the attack coming and he was also able to overpower a no momentum base kick from RS-Sanji.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2019 ---

His crew praised him for his speed underwater. Okay, so he's as fast as a Fishman underwater. Hody is fast underwater too. Jimbei is fast underwater too.

What does that have to do with his speed in a fight? What has his Fishman speed been translated to in a fight?

1. What does this speedmean against Vergo? Joker? Judge?
2. What opponent has said Sanji was too fast for them? What opponent has had issues keeping up with Sanji in a fight? None.

Many characters are praised, but all these adjectives mean nothing because they prove nothing substantial if we don't see how relevant it is or useful against another opponent.

What proves anything is action against another. What has Sanji done against an opponent that indicated or showcased how magnificent his speed was? Who has he speed-blitzed that was formidable?

Statements are all well and good, but the proof is in the Pudding.

Which opponent has Sanji been too fast for despite the fact he was praised for being as fast as a Fishman?

1. Pound is in the air and Oven is on the ground; Pound just pounced on him - his entire focus is on Pound, this isn't a situation where you really have a good view of surroundings.
2. He's furious and all his attention is on Pound - he's emotionally invested, very likely to cause tunnel vision.
3. Oven is roughly 490 centimetres tall while Sanji is about roughly 180 centimetres - Sanji kicked him from underneath his body, a blind spot.
4. Even before and after Sanji got to within kicking distance, Pound and Oven are so close to each other nothing else will appear from their peripheral vision. He's probably unable to even see Chiffon is on the ground at that point.

This scene is mistaken as a feat of speed. It's not a feat of speed. Only people that can't see Sanji are civilians and fodder. All we need is go back to his fights. Not a single opponent of Sanji has ever mentioned how speedy he was. Did Judge have issues with his speed? Did Vergo? Did Daifuku? None.

What really happened here was Oven was distracted by Pound, therefore, he couldn't see Sanji. It's not that Sanji moves so fast that he can't be seen. Only people that won't see him are fodder and civilians. Ironically for his apparent god-speed, even Pudding saw him save Chiffon.

We already know that relative to normal people, Sanji is super-humanly fast. He however is not very fast to other super-humans like Judge, Oven, Daifuku, etc.

The only thing this scene indicates is that Sanji is able to think very fast. He's intelligent and extremely quick-witted. Maybe the quickest witted person in the entire crew. The only thing Oda seems to keep consistent since the time-skip is Sanji's intelligence in terms of strategy and flexibility of mind under intense pressure.

Just going back to your quote, you're talking about his being complimented by his crew. Any Superhuman character can cover a fairly long distance in a matter of milliseconds. It's not something that only Sanji can do. Many superhumans can do this. These are not spectacular feats. They may be spectacular to regular people and fodder, but to relatively strong and decent fighters, he's not some speed king.

Pudding seeing Sanji is obviously a gag scene. Or are you going to tell me that sanji was able to sense Vivi being in danger back in Alabasta?

And Sanji's speed as was actually very impressive against Vergo. Reread the fight. He outspeeded him in a head on clash and also dodged his kick point blank range when he realised how strong Vergo is.

 

[King Moe]

Simple facts, Moe-kun.

The most overrated character is the son of top 5 Judge himself, Win-smoke Wankji and there are plenty of people agreeing with that, in case you didn't notice, last 5 pages of discussion here.

Call me again when Zoro ever stop being Perona's bitch with her powers and made him to a stuff animal. While Sanji been doings lot of work since WCI.

Nah, sorry. Biased Zoro fans don't count, but you see websites on how Zoro fall from his glory more like Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Oroja-...Oh wait, I forgot. You can't head there anymore. I wonder why (Joking)?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Which is just nonesense given that Chopper or any other weakling wouldn't be able to do the same. The credit for the win goes to SANJI WITH THE RS.

Nonsense is just your opinion. Can call anything nonsense, it doesn't change objective truth.

The win goes to Sanji, yes it does.

Point is the fact that the Raid Suit is the reason he was able to win the way he did.

Even with the invisibility, sanji's speed and the acceleration device of the suit P1 was able to notice the attack coming and he was also able to overpower a no momentum base kick from RS-Sanji.

Earth is flat. Before anyone jumps on me with the science stuff, don't bother...

Aren't you being a hypocrite? Not long ago, you said you didn't care about the science of Zoro bleeding, here you are talking about momentum, lol.

Page One noticed it late nonetheles. And the fact is prior to even the late notice, he couldn't see Sanji which gave Sanji that window of opportunity to land cleanly. More so, Sanji was carrying "momentum" with all that speed and acceleration to land that kick.

1. Would Sanji have been able to carry all that momentum if Page One knew where he was to begin with?
2. You think Page One would just have stood on the spot waiting for Sanji to charge up his attack?
3. You think Page One is just spinning because he wants to be a sitting duck to be attacked?
4. You think Page One would not have been at least chasing and attacking and trying to disrupt Sanji?
5. Despite the fact that Sanji built all that momentum, he only crashed Page One into 1 building. Whereas... Page One didn't have to build much momentum, a mere swing of his arm sent Sanji flying through not 1, 2, but 3 or more buildings in an instant.

Sanji won because of the suit, not because of his speed or strength.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Wrong. I never said he chose to be visible. I said he was invisible because of the suit. So, your point here is a strawman. You're arguing points I never argued about in the first place. Can only mean you failed to really understand my point.

Ok, let's put this straight. Usually, when people say invisibility in the context of Sanji it is about a very specific feature that the RS provides, not the circumstances in which Sanji is not visible to his opponent like when he lands a "cheap-shot" so to speak.

Yes, I failed to understand your point because you need to articulate yourself better so that dumbass rednecks like myself could comprehend you more easily.

 

[hokageji]

Usually intentionally, especially when I say "irrelevant."

In my experience, HP usually has a habit of refusing to accept other possibilities he does not like and either sticks to one possibility (a la Luffy beating Big Mom in the previous arc) or will twist manga statement or even people he's arguing with to suit what he wants and refuses to acknowledge there are other possibilities, like Luffy not fighting Big Mom given Cracker was a tough one for Luffy to beat.

That was pretty funny...
In regards to arguments, yes... i had the same discussion about Kaido having a DF most likely, Sanji actually making the cake and saving the day and all but the arguments continued...

And no one would disagree that Sanji would have lost to Doflamingo. In fact, most characters would have unless they had a way to avoid or get out of Doflamingo's string binds. I don't think we've seen Sanji really go all out either, so it's hard to tell if he could have hurt Vergo.

Exactly. In terms of versatality of DF, he exceeds Katakuri.... Sure, Sanji would've lost, but if the requirement is Sanji needs to stall him for hrs, he'd be as effective as Zoro, who'd lost to Mingo as well.

Not really, Sanji given more stronger enemies than Zoro ever gotten and he still hold his own more compare to Zoro especially in this latest chapter, it proves more Sanji can handle himself more than Zoro as we can never said Sanji ever fainted in his fights. He struggle and hold his own, but mostly hold back or interruption out of it.

You do realize he uses RS more so for disguise and spying than for sake of power and lacking. Many don't see that as they know Sanji is strong on his own, but of course he is smart fighter and he know what he is doing with the suit. Also the situation is same with Zoro with Mihawk. How you think it feel for Zoro asking his enemy who gave him a life-threatening scar on his chest and beg him to train him. It's about putting pride aside for those you hate for better, not because you accept they are right. Sanji made it clear he still hates it and being refer as Germa which is why he is asking Franky and Usopp to modify it so not to show it. Nothing says his hate is now gone or he easily forgive them. He didn't, that's from your guys observation than reading the actual context as he said clearly

Thts Sanji + Raid Suit.
and only this time. Yes, i realize RS is for disguise. But it doesnt change the fact that he is going against the entire fiber of his being which hates Germa. I know he said he's ready to put his ego away to protect his friends and all but still..

You dont need to bring Zoro comparison with me. I'am on your side 90% of the time during this debate. I am putting everything we've learned about RS and saying its better suited for Nami and hope Franky can modify it.

Also, coming from someone who loves Sanji.
1. He is a great character, makes intelligent decisions in the nick of time and has saved the day multiple times
2. Has the most unique fighting style with only kicks, addresses them with food which makes it hilarious and cool at the same time.
3. When you skills like 1 and 2, would you really want him to be invisible?

That is the point i am trying to make. It is huge powerup given that feels like over compensation. While i maintain Sanji < Zoro, i also maintain only by a fraction.
Again, i personally dislike the RS, its purely an opinion based on the character. I'd rather have Sanji < Zoro than Sanji + RS >>> Zoro....

OP is not all about powerlevels. Sanji's a much better character than Zoro.

don't think it's unfair, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Oda's having Sanji rely on something from Germa. I mean what stops Oda from having Sanji simply defeat Page One because he's faster than him?

No you got me wrong. I wasnt trying to say you said its unfair.

This is what i said:
"I also agree with the Raid suit part. I just hate it, specially since he himself acknowledged it. But thats just a matter of opinon. If swords can make Zoro stronger, then Sanji getting an upgrade isn't unfair, but it is poor to show he gets that upgrade from the people he despises the most."

Clearly, i am agreeing with you on the RS part. My time to say, "you should read it properly" JK JK

I dislike the upgrade, and yes its a purely subjective thing. Oda probably couldnt come up with any repitle based menu items and decided to make him invisible for that reason. But seriously, i do hope RS is passed on to Nami. I am sure everyone the transformation page itself can last one chapter and everyone will be happy.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Pudding seeing Sanji is obviously a gag scene. Or are you going to tell me that sanji was able to sense Vivi being in danger back in Alabasta?

Wrong, it's not just a gag-scene, she saw him lol.

And Sanji's speed as was actually very impressive against Vergo. Reread the fight. He outspeeded him in a head on clash and also dodged his kick point blank range when he realised how strong Vergo is.

Wrong.

Vergo has no issues with his speed.

What actually happened was that Sanji came out of nowhere, and Vergo reacted late. It was more or less a surprise attack.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2019 ---

Ok, let's put this straight. Usually, when people say invisibility in the context of Sanji it is about a very specific feature that the RS provides, not the circumstances in which Sanji is not visible to his opponent like when he lands a "cheap-shot" so to speak.

Yes, I failed to understand your point because you need to articulate yourself better so that dumbass rednecks like myself could comprehend you more easily.

You're making excuses. It's not about what people said. If you're responding to someone, it's because you read what they said. Not what other people said. Your logic here makes no sense.

Can make all the excuses you want, the point is every success he had in the fight against Page One is thanks to the Raid Suit from invisibility to durability that Page One didn't think Sanji would be unscathed from which gave Sanji the opportunity to attack from "another blind-spot".

I did articulate myself properly. You just failed to read properly. If you want to call yourself a Redneck, that's your own words, so be it.

 

[nik87]

And Sanji's speed as was actually very impressive against Vergo. Reread the fight. He outspeeded him in a head on clash and also dodged his kick point blank range when he realised how strong Vergo is.

Nothing impressive about Sanji's speed or any of his other feats, just overrated by his fans. His speed is actually bad.

Call me again when Zoro ever stop being Perona's bitch with her powers and made him to a stuff animal. While Sanji been doings lot of work since WCI.

Nah, sorry. Biased Zoro fans don't count, but you see websites on how Zoro fall from his glory more like Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Oroja-...Oh wait, I forgot. You can't head there anymore. I wonder why (Joking)?

Sounds like you are getting emotional here.

You still think I cant read on OJ?
I have seen people calling you being part of Sanji's cancer fandom...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I dislike the upgrade, and yes its a purely subjective thing. Oda probably couldnt come up with any repitle based menu items and decided to make him invisible for that reason. But seriously, i do hope RS is passed on to Nami. I am sure everyone the transformation page itself can last one chapter and everyone will be happy.

Oda may not have given him the Raid Suit for such reasons, but Oda is very intelligent. He has very high emotional IQ given how he's able to hint at things that most people fail to pick up. Do you recall how people hated Pudding initially? It's not until the end of WCI that people began to empathise and sympathise with Pudding. Everyone thought she was just a horrid personality when in fact, she was a troubled person who deep down was a good-natured person just wearing an armour of cruelty since she was emotionally abused to the point it had left deep-seated scars that she was traumatised by. All of this was heavily hinted, I remember speaking about it many times, yet people claimed she was just a bitch and even wanted Sanji to defeat her in some instances despite his code.

End of the day, the thing is if you or anyone wanted to draw or write Sanji in a way that made him look strong, anyone could do it. It wouldn't be difficult at all. All the settings in which Oda has drawn Sanji in, they've been questionable.

We only need to ask, why has it taken over 440 chapters for Sanji to be drawn with Hardened Armament? Is that too difficult to draw? Oda knows what he's doing. He's just not portraying Sanji in a way that puts him on the pedestal he would have stood on pre-skip.

Isn't it absurd that in order to even see Sanji actually look like one of the Monster trio, we have to read or watch pre-skip fights?

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

Nothing impressive about Sanji's speed or any of his other feats, just overrated by his fans. His speed is actually bad.

@Hannibal Psyche I am actually out rn, so give me a few mins to reply back since I need more than just one pic for your post. I'll make sure to address everything you brought up, so just wait...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

To be honest, instead of arguing about how Sanji has looked. Why isn't anyone admitting to things Oda could have done better since the skip?

Do you really think Sanji had to be drawn the way he was at: Punk Hazard?

1. Did he really deserve to be injured from an explosion? If the Manga had said that Sanji was perfectly fine despite the explosion since his body had grown immensely stronger, would anyone have called bullshit?
2. Did Sanji have to break his bone against Vergo?
3. Would it have been too much to have Sanji defeat Vergo since he wasn't going to feature much in Dressrosa until after 70 chapters?
4. Why have almost 450 chapters gone by, yet Sanji has not been drawn with Hardened Armament, but Bellamy of all characters has been drawn with it?

Heck, Oda could easily have had it such that Sanji arrived at Zou, fought against Jack, defeated him but then got seriously injured which led to being kidnapped by Bege and co. for the wedding at WCI.

@Hannibal Psyche I am actually out rn, so give me a few mins to reply back since I need more than just one pic for your post. I'll make sure to address everything you brought up, so just wait...

Sure, take your time.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

...

Now you're talking about straw man yet you managed to twist my point so badly.

I was talking about the RS not helping Sanji much speed-wise, not that Sanji has a god-tier speed that no one can match.

Sanji can 'fly' without the suit and he's already quite fast. You said it yourself that what helped Sanji against PO was not his speed but the invisibility factor. My point was it's not all that necessary for him to have these two enhancements (floatation & acceleration devices) in the suit.

As for the rest of your post, my personal opinion: Sanji vs Oven thing is still a speed feat. In that short fraction of a second Sanji has done several things — covered a long distance, spinned himself in preparation for the attack, kicked Oven (+caused damage), catched Chiffon before she landed on the ground and brought her back to the platform. What other character has done anything similar to this?

 

[nik87]

@Hannibal Psyche I am actually out rn, so give me a few mins to reply back since I need more than just one pic for your post. I'll make sure to address everything you brought up, so just wait...

Was Vergo famous for his speed? Who is Sanji faster than? Slow slugs Strawhats, aside from Luffy? You call that impressive speed?
Also, in your comparison picture, where is the second opponent who's trying to cheap shot Sanji?

Take your time, as much as you want but good luck convincing Daifuku that Sanji's feats, especially speed and CoO are good.
Btw, Daifuku is not notorious for speed either so go ahead and try to show the majestic feats of your beloved Wankji.

 

[King Moe]

Thts Sanji + Raid Suit.
and only this time. Yes, i realize RS is for disguise. But it doesnt change the fact that he is going against the entire fiber of his being which hates Germa. I know he said he's ready to put his ego away to protect his friends and all but still..

You dont need to bring Zoro comparison with me. I'am on your side 90% of the time during this debate. I am putting everything we've learned about RS and saying its better suited for Nami and hope Franky can modify it.

Also, coming from someone who loves Sanji.
1. He is a great character, makes intelligent decisions in the nick of time and has saved the day multiple times
2. Has the most unique fighting style with only kicks, addresses them with food which makes it hilarious and cool at the same time.
3. When you skills like 1 and 2, would you really want him to be invisible?

That is the point i am trying to make. It is huge powerup given that feels like over compensation. While i maintain Sanji < Zoro, i also maintain only by a fraction.
Again, i personally dislike the RS, its purely an opinion based on the character. I'd rather have Sanji < Zoro than Sanji + RS >>> Zoro....

OP is not all about powerlevels. Sanji's a much better character than Zoro.

It is still the same way and he was planned on using it sooner or later, but again doesn't take away he still hates his family and Germa. Why you think he is asking Franky and Usopp to modified to get rid of things? He not gonna worship them or change his feelings if anything once Germa sees he modified their suit, think they be upset at seeing Sanji even more taking a stance away his heritage (Except Reiju).

It is possible he can give it to someone if your saying that once he feels it outlived it's usefulness for sure and I am on your side too on this.

I respect where you getting at and I see your worries on the RS, but so far from what we seen, he isn't fighting any different from how he is usually fighting. I mean he could have use invisibility to fight Drake and Hawkins, when they appear, but instead he just got everyone out of there and use it to get information about what happened to Bepo and the others. He is using more for espionage and disguises as he said. This helps shows he isn't like his family on needing it to fight and taking advantage of wanting that too. Overall his attack and speed is still greatly his own end of the day, so it doesn't changes anything that much.

Pretty sure the gap has widen more since last chapter of Zoro. With his durability taken down a notch, don't see him as 'close' as he was before if the man can't take anymore like he used to. He need to retrain himself and redeem to be better later on. Also agree that Sanji is a better character than Zoro as well by far too. I respect your opinion more as at you come at me with more facts and logic compare to the others who just want to bash to bash Sanji. Thank you for Hokageji .

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2019 ---

Nothing impressive about Sanji's speed or any of his other feats, just overrated by his fans. His speed is actually bad.


Sounds like you are getting emotional here.

You still think I cant read on OJ?
I have seen people calling you being part of Sanji's cancer fandom...

Whoa been stalking me lately on there? That's kinda creepy man. I keep telling you not to get emotional and respect opinions and don't fret over things. Also was kinda making fun there, but happy to see many are taking my stances there more than expected, so want to try to debate with those if you ever see them again as I guarantee they count you again like last time you try to make Zoro 'perfect' there especially after this chapter lol.

 

[afromarco005]

Well he need to get acquainted how to use the RS as if he never use it once, then it be kinda BS how he is master of it while just one-time use especially going after an YC later on. Beside he stated already it's more so for disguise and he using it for spying, not for lack of power which is why he asking Usopp and Franky to remove features from it so he doesn't get affiliated with them and Germa. He stated that he still hates them, nothing changes out of that. Idk where you guys think Sanji forgot about it and loves them now when he doesn't. It is shame with Zoro as he quickly asked for Mihawk's the moment he find out about the newspaper what Luffy did and Ace's death. I don't see a different as both are putting aside prides to those they consider enemies and dislike them.

I know the fanbase hated seeing Zoro begging Mihawk and him mocking Zoro for doing that, but it was for character development on him putting pride aside for the greater good, it doesn't hurt character what they think as the same with Sanji. It's truly the same case all together here.

Got be an YC especially how Oda is hyping King and Queen with similar personalities in rivalry like Sanji and Zoro (Though after latest chapter, Zoro I don't see likely to touch an YC without retraining and such, but it seems like he pushing him to Orochi as final opponent since he is now with Hiyori and took out his henchman in the end) and plus if he easily defeated a T6H, he needs something more challenging for him to face off with. Idk if he needs team-up especially need those type of people by his side as YC aren't as bad as Kaido who need major team-up for Luffy when he faces him. Though point end of the day Luffy will soon reach Yonko lvl and his fellow Monster Trio being Sanji and Zoro have to be close by to him to reach him and thus be YC lvl which looks to be happening pretty soon.

When I said he face them no struggle? Of course he struggle, but defeat them in the end. Your speaking more nonsense each time we talk, but hey doing your best to detract away on what Zoro happened to him last chapter on whatever it takes. Like Rayleigh said, you evolve more as tougher the fight and thus your Haki increases along with it. Him facing a YC be perfect to develop more on his body too, so Idk why you guys are against it especially how Oda is shaping the arc to confront them head-on to defeat them. Nothing to go around it or anything.

Nekomamushi and Inurashi are also rivals in the same vein as Zoro and Kooks, does this mean that tgey will be fighting King and Queen too?

 

[King Moe]

Oda may not have given him the Raid Suit for such reasons, but Oda is very intelligent. He has very high emotional IQ given how he's able to hint at things that most people fail to pick up. Do you recall how people hated Pudding initially? It's not until the end of WCI that people began to empathise and sympathise with Pudding. Everyone thought she was just a horrid personality when in fact, she was a troubled person who deep down was a good-natured person just wearing an armour of cruelty since she was emotionally abused to the point it had left deep-seated scars that she was traumatised by. All of this was heavily hinted, I remember speaking about it many times, yet people claimed she was just a bitch and even wanted Sanji to defeat her in some instances despite his code.

End of the day, the thing is if you or anyone wanted to draw or write Sanji in a way that made him look strong, anyone could do it. It wouldn't be difficult at all. All the settings in which Oda has drawn Sanji in, they've been questionable.

We only need to ask, why has it taken over 440 chapters for Sanji to be drawn with Hardened Armament? Is that too difficult to draw? Oda knows what he's doing. He's just not portraying Sanji in a way that puts him on the pedestal he would have stood on pre-skip.

Isn't it absurd that in order to even see Sanji actually look like one of the Monster trio, we have to read or watch pre-skip fights?

Now this is personal biased here and your not even trying to hear Pea out and others. When is Sanji out of the Monster Trio seems more like personal opinion than fanbase, Hanniabl. You got quit it with that as without and with RS he still stronger than a lot of the characters on the ship and more than ever now seeing Zoro unable to take a hit like he used to. There is nothing to look back as Sanji still Monster Trio and got feats in this NW and your desperate trying to force he is out of it when he isn't by huge fanbase still consider him in.

Again your on thigns by your emotions than trusting Oda as he not gonna make Sanji 'weakling' especially without RS he can't do anything as hardly doubt that and he stop training too. Also he does off-screen as there are times he focus the plot more than fighting as he don't have time as much. He off-screen Kidd escaping jail and Nami and others escaping Orochi and his men. Does it mean he is lazy or hate the characters. No, he feels the anime can handle it on extending the scenes more as well don't want to pace too much as the same issue could happen again with Dressrosa from what I here he try writing every scene and many dislike how he did it. So you got pick a side on how you want it on pacing as can't complain about it on too much and then again on being lesser as we will be back and forth about it.

You can ignore me all you want, but it's not helping your case and your being immature on not listening to others if it's not your way you want. That doesn't make someone credible as you have to accept all opinions than post personal ones and claim them as fact about something when they aren't. Just saying to you.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You're making excuses. It's not about what people said. If you're responding to someone, it's because you read what they said. Not what other people said. Your logic here makes no sense.

Oh my goodness, back to square one. You don't even know what we were arguing about apparently. Yeah, take your own advice and don't just read what people say but try to actually understand what they are trying to get across.

Can make all the excuses you want, the point is every success he had in the fight against Page One is thanks to the Raid Suit from invisibility to durability that Page One didn't think Sanji would be unscathed from which gave Sanji the opportunity to attack from "another blind-spot".

Except I never argued about the suit not granting Sanji abilities that secured his victory in that particular battle. This is a straw man from you that you pulled out of nowhere.

I did articulate myself properly. You just failed to read properly. If you want to call yourself a Redneck, that's your own words, so be it.

Can make all the excuses you want...

 

[King Moe]

Nekomamushi and Inurashi are also rivals in the same vein as Zoro and Kooks, does this mean that tgey will be fighting King and Queen too?

That's quite different as their rivalry is something else and they weren't always like that in beginning much. Glass and Sanji are facing Kaido's men head-on than them and since Luffy will later face Kaido, it make sense why they face his YC lvl people as well so not to be left behind since they are always close to Luffy in power in the Strawhats.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

Was Vergo famous for his speed?

Actually, Vergo outspeeded Law and was keeping up with Logia Smoker, who's only significant PU with his df is his mobility/maneuverability ...

Also, in your comparison picture, where is the second opponent who's trying to cheap shot Sanji?

Take another looks and this time read the stuff that is written in red.

Take your time, as much as you want but good luck convincing Daifuku that Sanji's feats, especially speed and CoO are good.
Btw, Daifuku is not notorious for speed either so go ahead and try to show the majestic feats of your beloved Wankji.

Yes, Sanji sucked ass when he was desperately trying to save his blood family that was about to get offed by a whole YK crew. Try again. But next time consider that you need to be rather calm to properly use CoO.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Now you're talking about straw man yet you managed to twist my point so badly.

You can dissect my statement and it's easy to understand. It's your fault for not understanding despite how clear it was.

I merely need to quote what I said and what you said:

No where did I talk about Sanji choosing to be invisible.

What about "He defeated an opponent that couldn't see him" is implying Sanji choosing to fight with invisibility? What about that statement has to do with choice? Absolutely nothing.

So, you're the one pulling strawman arguments and misunderstanding simple and basic sentences.

I was talking about the RS not helping Sanji much speed-wise, not that Sanji has a god-tier speed that no one can match.

Again, this is what you said:

It's hard to establish just how much faster Sanji has gotten with the suit, since he was one hell of a fast guy even before that.

"Since he was one hell of a fast guy before that (Raid Suit). My post was addressing this, Sanji before the Raid Suit. Everything I said regarding his speed was about the perception of his speed prior to the Raid Suit.

He's never had impressive speed to anyone he's fought against.

You are the one who said he has impressive speed, yet now you're denying referencing something you said.

Your entire post there was about how great his speed was. yet when I say it isn't, you fail to comprehend that just because I said god-speed which is simply referring the fact that he's not exceptionally fast, you say you weren't talking about Sanji having impressive speed. You clearly didn't realise that god speed is my point of saying you exaggerate his speed and overrate it.

Sanji can 'fly' without the suit and he's already quite fast. You said it yourself that what helped Sanji against PO was not his speed but the invisibility factor. My point was it's not all that necessary for him to have these two enhancements (floatation & acceleration devices) in the suit.

Again, that's an irrelevant point. We weren't talking about what in the suit is unnecessary, but about the fact the qualities of the suit are why he won. You're deviating from the topic.

You can't respond to a point or statement that has nothing to do with the subject of the point or statement, It's a pointless point if that's the case.

As for the rest of your post, my personal opinion: Sanji vs Oven thing is still a speed feat. In that short fraction of a second Sanji has done several things — covered a long distance, spinned himself in preparation for the attack, kicked Oven (+caused damage), catched Chiffon before she landed on the ground and brought her back to the platform. What other character has done anything similar to this?

The logic here is like saying "what other character has carried a cake with their feet"... thing is only he has been put in such circumstances.

Yes, it was a great scene, but it doesn't mean he's faster than any other character. Luffy and Zoro and Brook could easily do the same thing too. They're all superhuman and very fast.

Yes, he kicked Oven and caught Chiffon in milliseconds, but the fact is Sanji's speed whether he can do that in milliseconds is irrelevant because:

1. That speed is not something that could faze Judge, Oven or Vergo.
2. Where was this speed when he was trying to carry Luffy to safety? Chiffon isn't even as heavy as Luffy if you want to bring weight into this.

Thing is if Oven knew he was there, Sanji wouldn't have gotten away with it, he'd have been spotted which is why he needed to take advantage of Oven's distraction.

As far as Oven was aware, Sanji was 11 hours away from Cacao Island on the Sunny that was near WCI. There was absolutely no way for him to anticipate Sanji being at Cacao Island because he didn't know Pudding was working with the SHs. More so, who would dare oppose Oven in Cacao Island? No one but Pound, thus why his entire attention was on him, there was no reason for him to be wary of any other enemy.