One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Shasha23]

Plus Idk if Shanks is a 'true' swordsman as he looks to fight without a sword especially with his insane Haki like his.

Oda has already stated Shanks is a swordsman and a non DF user

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 14, 2019 ---

I haven't seen many agreeing with you Nik.
I get what your saying but I strongly disagree with you. If it was pre TS then Yea I would root for Zoro. Even after a power up or several I don't see Zoro catching up much.y

Like I mentioned, Zoro was definitely a close 2nd. From their 1st meeting all the way up to their 2Y split. This was primarily the time where Zoro's skills as a swordsman wasn't inferior to Luffy's physical prowness and strentghts as a DF user.

Even before WCI. I believe Boundman would beat defeat Zoro. It would just be an interesting fight imo. But post TS ODA seems to be creating larger gaps in the power levels.

For me i always see the strength between the 3 like i saw with Yu Yu Hakusho :

Luffy = Yusuke : Little training and becomes exponentially stronger
Zoro = Hiei : Always trains a lot and is close to Yusuke
Sanji = Kurama : At base level they are nothing special but with their transformations they reach the levels of Yusuke and Hiei /Luffy and Zoro

Also at the beginning of every arc Yusuke and Hiei are equal but when it come to the final battle with the main villain, Yusuke pulls aways, same with Luffy and zoro, they are equal at the beginning of every arc but when the final showdown happens Luffy for some reason becomes exponentially stronger.
As for Kurama/Sanji they never do any form of training and for whatever reason they are able to keep up with the other 2, even if they aren't as physically strong they can use transformation : yoko Kurama/Stealth black to be able to close the vast strength difference and be on the same level as Yusuke and Hiei/ Luffy and Zoro

 

[M3J]

For me, this is closer to a gag than a serious rivalry. Idk if gag is the right word but something that isn't serious. It's not something deep in their character to compare strength, or use each other as a goal/standard etc.

I don't think it's a serious rivalry as much as it is brotherly rivalry. Gag would be closer to it, but they're trying to up each other in everything. It started on the island where they met the two giants, Groggy and Borry or whatever their names are.

 

[King Moe]

Oda has already stated Shanks is a swordsman and a non DF user

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 14, 2019 ---

For me i always see the strength between the 3 like i saw with Yu Yu Hakusho :

Luffy = Yusuke : Little training and becomes exponentially stronger
Zoro = Hiei : Always trains a lot and is close to Yusuke
Sanji = Kurama : At base level they are nothing special but with their transformations they reach the levels of Yusuke and Hiei /Luffy and Zoro

Also at the beginning of every arc Yusuke and Hiei are equal but when it come to the final battle with the main villain, Yusuke pulls aways, same with Luffy and zoro, they are equal at the beginning of every arc but when the final showdown happens Luffy for some reason becomes exponentially stronger.
As for Kurama/Sanji they never do any form of training and for whatever reason they are able to keep up with the other 2, even if they aren't as physically strong they can use transformation : yoko Kurama/Stealth black to be able to close the vast strength difference and be on the same level as Yusuke and Hiei/ Luffy and Zoro

I know, but just saying Shanks isn't helpless if he loses his blade. Pretty sure he can fight without as with his insane Haki, he has more surprises than just swordsmanship is what I saying.

Been a long time since I seen Yu Yu Hakashou, but don't think Kurama is helpless at base as he shown his fighting prowress many times, so I wouldn't say that as he is equal to them in many forms and stats from what I remember from his clashes with enemies.

 

[Shasha23]

I know, but just saying Shanks isn't helpless if he loses his blade. Pretty sure he can fight without as with his insane Haki, he has more surprises than just swordsmanship is what I saying.

Been a long time since I seen Yu Yu Hakashou, but don't think Kurama is helpless at base as he shown his fighting prowress many times, so I wouldn't say that as he is equal to them in many forms and stats from what I remember from his clashes with enemies.

No one is helpless if they lose their weapon, the fact is Oda said he is a swordsman and he will only be fighting using his sword skills, there are no surprises waiting!

Kurama is weak in his human form, most decent fighters could and were able to best him, that's why he had to rely on his yoko form, same with Sanji, in his base form Sanji is not that great but thanks to stealth black he is easily at a YC level.
Kurama was never equal to Yusuke or Hiei, only when he transformed was he comparable to them, same goes for Sanji.
At best Sanji is around the level of the elite officers of the Donquixote Family, but people of that level were nothing to Luffy and Zoro but Stealth Black puts him close to YC level.

 

[King Moe]

No one is helpless if they lose their weapon, the fact is Oda said he is a swordsman and he will only be fighting using his sword skills, there are no surprises waiting!

Kurama is weak in his human form, most decent fighters could and were able to best him, that's why he had to rely on his yoko form, same with Sanji, in his base form Sanji is not that great but thanks to stealth black he is easily at a YC level.
Kurama was never equal to Yusuke or Hiei, only when he transformed was he comparable to them, same goes for Sanji.
At best Sanji is around the level of the elite officers of the Donquixote Family, but people of that level were nothing to Luffy and Zoro but Stealth Black puts him close to YC level.

Few/Some characters can't fight without their weapons. What ya mean? Zoro and probably Mihawk are examples are being powerless more without their swords. Shanks and certain others are not like that since they have more than one fighting style.

From what I remember Yusuke and Hiei got push to the point of their bases just the same when more serious contenders. They aren't different and struggle as much as Kurama. Sanji handle as much as them without needing RS. Idk where your getting the factor he can't do much without RS cause he isn't. Sanji is like Shanks on having more than one style due to RS same with Shanks with his sword. Though without them, you won't seem them unable to do anything, but can as they have another style of fighting.

I agree he isn't Luffy lvl, but Zoro is not been there especially after last chapter. You can't put Zoro above status after going down like that. He usually depicted equal with Sanji (Probably Sanji stronger if we going by performance so far especially in Wano).

I do know after this arc they reach YC lvl if Luffy is going right after Kaido himself. Those two are not that deeply far behind Luffy in power, so it wouldn't be surprise if their opponents for the two could be Queen, King, Jack, or Orochi (Probably be Zoro's final opponent especially his side being with Hiyori and already attack his henchmen). Looking to preparing them for huge battles just like their captain.

 

[nik87]

I agree he isn't Luffy lvl, but Zoro is not been there especially after last chapter. You can't put Zoro above status after going down like that. He usually depicted equal with Sanji (Probably Sanji stronger if we going by performance so far especially in Wano).

You keep repeating this... Care to explain your thought process of how you got to the conclusion that Sanji is stronger than Zoro?
Is he able to defeat any opponent with one clean hit? No, he is not.
Did he take a scythe through his chest and remained conscious? No.
Has Sanji taken on 2 opponents at the same time and remained unscratched? Nope.
What are you comparing when you say Sanji is stronger than Zoro?

 

[King Moe]

You keep repeating this... Care to explain your thought process of how you got to the conclusion that Sanji is stronger than Zoro?
Is he able to defeat any opponent with one clean hit? No, he is not.
Did he take a scythe through his chest and remained conscious? No.
Has Sanji taken on 2 opponents at the same time and remained unscratched? Nope.
What are you comparing when you say Sanji is stronger than Zoro?

Since when Kamazou is same lvl or higher than Page One? He is nothing like that. Plus talking by performance, not on characters as don't we usually say who stronger by performance so far. You be ignoring this to say Zoro is doing better than Sanji in Wano as clearly he hasn't been good for him.

Sanji have take cutting and piercing blows and never go down and he actually taken multiple opponents before.

Also you misunderstand on what I am saying as still see them as equals, but if we going by performance wise just like we judge many characters, Sanji has better showing especially in the arc. Though honestly knowing Oda he keep them equals with each other.

 

[nik87]

Since when Kamazou is same lvl or higher than Page One? He is nothing like that. Plus talking by performance, not on characters as don't we usually say who stronger by performance so far. You be ignoring this to say Zoro is doing better than Sanji in Wano as clearly he hasn't been good for him.

I didnt mention Kamazou vs PageOne at all, that is irrelevant to my question.

Sanji have take cutting and piercing blows and never go down and he actually taken multiple opponents before.

When did he take a blade through his chest? When has he taken on 2 high tier opponents at the same time?

Also you misunderstand on what I am saying as still see them as equals, but if we going by performance wise just like we judge many characters, Sanji has better showing especially in the arc. Though honestly knowing Oda he keep them equals with each other.

Whether you consider Sanji stronger or equal to Zoro, my question remains the same. How they are doing in current arc is not relevant to Sanji vs Zoro.
Which part of combat is Sanji superior in? What exactly are you comparing to come to the conclusion that they are equal or Sanji being stronger?

 

[King Moe]

I didnt mention Kamazou vs PageOne at all, that is irrelevant to my question.

When did he take a blade through his chest? When has he taken on 2 high tier opponents at the same time?

Whether you consider Sanji stronger or equal to Zoro, my question remains the same. How they are doing in current arc is not relevant to Sanji vs Zoro.
Which part of combat is Sanji superior in? What exactly are you comparing to come to the conclusion that they are equal or Sanji being stronger?

Nik87, your doing it again. Your getting too serious on opinion because it disagree with your viewpoint. Don't want this to lead a pointless backforth and dodging questions. Just let it go please and just accept different opinion.

 

[nik87]

Nik87, your doing it again. Your getting too serious on opinion because it disagree with your viewpoint. Don't want this to lead a pointless backforth and dodging questions. Just let it go please and just accept different opinion.

Yes, I am seriously asking you precise questions. No trolling, joking or whatever. Can you answer those questions to back up your different opinion?

 

[Core D. Roy]

I kinda wanna hijack this thread to talk about non-fighter's power levels, just to throw water on the neverending dumpster fire that is Zoro v. Sanji: Dawn of Blah Blah Blah.

Like, could Dadan take out Bakkin? Mansherry and Conis in a steel cage match! Is Kokoro the strongest there is? Legends speak of the wake of destruction she leaves when happy hour is over.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I kinda wanna hijack this thread to talk about non-fighter's power levels, just to throw water on the neverending dumpster fire that is Zoro v. Sanji: Dawn of Blah Blah Blah.

Like, could Dadan take out Bakkin? Mansherry and Conis in a steel cage match! Is Kokoro the strongest there is? Legends speak of the wake of destruction she leaves when happy hour is over.

So let's assume Bakkin is a member of the Rox Pirates.

We have several assumed members that we can can say more or less are certainly members, we have:

Whitebeard
Kaido
Big Mom
Shaky
Bakkin

Now, those are some pretty big names to all be on one ship. All, besides Bakkin are considered to be pretty top tier fighters. Even Shakky revealed that Garp would sail the seas running after her.

Going by these names above we can assume everyone on that ship, despite aging... are still impressive in their own right.

Hence Bakkin = WhItebeard level strength

Now Dandan is another big name, having to hid out in the mountains or suffer Level 6 of Impel Down. Respected by Garp (or feared by him) enough to train his adoptive children.

Now Garp is the only man strong enough to match Rodger, so if he fears/respects dandan that is saying something.

Hence Dandan = Rodger level strength

So Dandan vs Bakkin would surely be a sight to behold.


I'm calling it a tie.

 

[M3J]

Few/Some characters can't fight without their weapons. What ya mean? Zoro and probably Mihawk are examples are being powerless more without their swords. Shanks and certain others are not like that since they have more than one fighting style.

How in the entire fuck did you come to the conclusion that Zoro is powerless without his swords or that he can't fight without swords?

I kinda wanna hijack this thread to talk about non-fighter's power levels, just to throw water on the neverending dumpster fire that is Zoro v. Sanji: Dawn of Blah Blah Blah.

Like, could Dadan take out Bakkin? Mansherry and Conis in a steel cage match! Is Kokoro the strongest there is? Legends speak of the wake of destruction she leaves when happy hour is over.

who's Bakkin? But the fight would come down to Dadan vs. Kokoro, and Kokoro would win if there's water nearby.

 

[hokageji]

ow in the entire fuck did you come to the conclusion that Zoro is powerless without his swords or that he can't fight without swords?

He clearly doesn't remember the "ZERO SWORD STYLE"
@King Moe

Also, in canon, he used it in Davy back.....

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2019 ---

But if we are being serious, sure Zoro can survive depending on who he fights. I'll give you credit if you are suggesting Sanji with swords > Zoro with kicks.... No one will argue that, we've already seen Sanji be so skilled with knives, fighting with any blade will be way easier. But to say Zoro's a zero without them, heck even Mihawk is not fair

 

[King Moe]

He clearly doesn't remember the "ZERO SWORD STYLE"
@King Moe

Also, in canon, he used it in Davy back.....

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2019 ---

But if we are being serious, sure Zoro can survive depending on who he fights. I'll give you credit if you are suggesting Sanji with swords > Zoro with kicks.... No one will argue that, we've already seen Sanji be so skilled with knives, fighting with any blade will be way easier. But to say Zoro's a zero without them, heck even Mihawk is not fair

We only seen few instances of Zero Style, but Zoro knows he can't face and defeat anyone by that. He need his blades. If he can defeat someone without his blade(s) who is a serious threat we can talk. Also isn't that movie non-canon? Idk using that a way he can defend when clearly he never did during his fights with Hawkins and Kamazou to harden his skin when they hit his body.

As for Mihawk maybe he isn't 'helpless' per-say, but he us known more for his swordsmanship as his most skill. He can use Haki out of it, but Idk how well he do against those who fight usually hand to hand without equipment.

Need more evidence on both on what they can do without their weapons to see, but looking so far, not much they can do to those physical fighters like Luffy, Sanji, possibly Shanks, etc..

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2019 ---

How in the entire fuck did you come to the conclusion that Zoro is powerless without his swords or that he can't fight without swords?


who's Bakkin? But the fight would come down to Dadan vs. Kokoro, and Kokoro would win if there's water nearby.

Give me a fight Zoro ever win against a serious opponent without weaponry and use physical abilities. Not saying he can't try to defend himself, but wouldn't put him at same lvl of hand to hand combat like Luffy, Sanji (foot to foot combat in his case), and others when he is more skill in weaponry especially on swords.

 

[nik87]

Zoro without swords is almost the same as Sanji without legs. I don't know why those scenarios are even being compared when neither fight that way.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Wait wait wait

Are we talking about base Sanji with no legs or RAID SUIT Sanji with no legs, Nik?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Sanji with no legs becomes Black Butt Sanji? No?

I'm not sure where this is going so I'll be dipping, an avalanche is coming!

 

[Pirate Queen]

If we are debating No Leg (Raid Suit) Sanji vs No arms Zoro, then what would we get?

Zoro can still wield 1 sword in his mouth and that can be devastating, but Raid suit can tank the damage to a degree. Can Sanji do Diable Jamble with his hands? Dont see why not...

And Zoro has Ashura Mode so that would give him 9 arms, minus the 2 he originally doesnt have...

Now if we *whispers furiously* "Carry the 2... minus the...."

*Ahem*
....
....
...

I think Zoro still takes it....

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Sanji with no legs becomes Black Butt Sanji? No?

I'm not sure where this is going so I'll be dipping, an avalanche is coming!

Don't you underestimate a butt that has been escaping gays for 2 years straight.

Should we also expect more from Sanji's observation haki? I mean he needed to sleep too, he couldn't run 24/7, could he? Must be something akin to that "evading attacks while asleep" that WB showcased.